$10 snake bite kit saves hunters life?

It appears that a $10 snake bite kit saved this hunters life. I personally have not put too much stock in these. Maybe someone from a more snake infested area could enlighten me or just add there two cents?

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/hunter-saves-own-life-after-rattlesnake-bite/

Tyber

it looks like a Sawyer bite and sting extractor...

back in the day the Cutter kits were standard with Scouts down here, but then no one had ever heard of a level I or II trauma center... we didn't have a hospital in town... then they fell out of favor due to the "opening the wound" directions with a couple of XX cuts...

like tourniquets, maybe it's time to re evaluate old techniques....as long as no further trauma to the bite site occurs, less venom sounds like a good thing

My understanding is that these days most snake bites are not even treated with anti-venom. Just supportive care.

The guy probably would have done fine doing nothing. IMO, snake bite kits are hokum.

To cop an improper analogy from another thread, one is none - one event doesn't make for a re-examination of fundamentals. One life "saved by x" (unconfirmed) doesn't mean that everyone should start carrying x to save lives. We don't know the doctor, or his general expertise or the basis for saying what he did. We don't even know his name. We aren't quite sure how far he was from treatment, or how he got there. I don't know pit vipers rattlesnakes, but will assume they are fairly venomous, especially 6 footers. There's not a lot to go on really.

The babies can be more dangerous than adults as they may give more venom than 'needed' where as an adult may control amt injected. So its said.

The Sawyer kit works extremely well for snake bites. And bee stings. You can actually see the venom coming out into the suction cup. Don't know where he bought it for ten bucks though. I think they went up to about twenty last time I checked. And all of ours come with that little lymph tourniquet.

I wish I knew more about these. I remember my scouting days first aid with the cross cut x, and how that has been discredited.

Wife and I are venturing into Texas, Colorado, and Arizona snake country on a camping trip in June, and I would like to know what precautions to take short of snake boots.

We have timber rattlers here, but you hardly ever see them.

Hey Byrd. It works in reverse than ayringe. As you depress the plunger it creates a high millibar suction so it draws out the venom rather than injecting something. They come with a variety of cups and easy to use. Last I saw them was sporting goods at wal-mart. well worth the investment if you have allergies insect venom or get a snake bite. The old cut and suck methods were dangerous, nerve damage and infection just two of the potential problems.

I am skeptical. More information would be necessary to come to an informed conclusion. What species of snake? I understand the toxicity of different species of rattle snakes varies by a factor of 100 or so. How much venom was actually injected? A good number of bites are "dry" bites - no venom is transferred. This is one of the reasons why a lot of treatment regimens gain favor.

The doctor's statement sounds a bit over the top. How much experience does he have with snake bites?

When I first came to Arizona and started hiking and climbing, I acquired a snake bite kit. Wore out two of them just carrying them around before folks were advised to not use them. I recall a presentation by a Tucon physician talking about the fifty or so cases he had treated (Thie was back in the 70s). There were two categories of patients - one was young children playing around the home. These were serious, since bites were often on the face. The second category was young males (17-25) who had initiated contact with the critters. Serves them right. Doing SAR around Tucson during my time there, some 500 operations, we had NO instances of snake bite victims.

It is quite easy to avoid snakes. Watch where you step and where you stick your hands. Be cautious when working through thick brush and vegetation. Pay attention to the temperature - this will profoundly influence the activity level of snakes.

Somewhere I have a Cutter venom kit kicking around, although I understand its use is no longer recommended. I no longer bother to carry a snake bite kit; there are far more significant things to include other than a SBK. Rattlesnakes are not unique to deserts or Arizona. They occur in every state in the union except for Maine. There are probably more per acre here in southern California than there are in Arizona (larger prey base).

Rattlesnakes probably provide a net benefit, since they keep rodent populations in check. Rodents may well present more of a hazard to humans than snakes. Think hanta virus and the Black Death. When I encounter a snake, i no longer try to kill it, I go one way and snake goes another. If I do have to dispatch the critter, the most effective tool is a long handled shovel or whatever rock is handy. I save my ammo for more legitimate threats.

Snake bite is vastly overrated as a significant hazard, especially if you use your head.

Hey Hiker.
I thought the same thing about the physicians statement, but two things came to mind. First, the man may have had an allergy to the venom. Second was an old article I read in a magazine when I was a kid. This guy had been handling snakes over thirty years without being bitten. Then one day he got sloppy and a fangs sliced the edge of his thumb. He almost died before he made it to the hospital. He had problem ever after the bite and they estimated that less than one drop of venom had entered the wound. Strange things happen and biology can be a huge factor. Just my humble opinion.

You make an excellent point about allergies. Allergic reactions are the reason that honey bees kill more people year in and year out than rattlesnakes. The typical annual score is something like 50 (bees) to 12 (rattlesnakes).

I also avoid harming snakes where I can. The only times I'll ever kill one is if it's in or close to my house, or if I can't shoe it out of my campsite.

I'm dubious of the efficacy of "sucking out the venom" with a kit. Supposedly the newer Sawyer is actually worthwhile, but probably more for wasp and ant bites than snake bites.

I guess a lot depends upon where you grew up, and currently live... down here the Eastern Diamondback and especially the more aggressive Cottonmouth Moccasin used to be plentiful...before the construction boom in the 70's it was pretty common to find rattlers in the neighborhood, especially in Gopher Tortoise holes... a 2nd grade classmate lost an arm to a diamondback bite in 1955... I don't understand the argument if a $12 item can reduce possible tremendous tissue damage from a hemotoxic bite...

That's one opinion, Snake_doctor. With respect: There are a great many opinions (and numerous threads on this site)and there are studies which don't agree with you. In the OP's link I'm not persuaded by "the doctors said" that if the patient hadn't extracted venom he wouldn't be alive. Doctors say a lot of things shooting from the hip.

I'm still open to read objective studies that show these pumps or extractors remove enough venom to make any difference in outcome. By objective... I mean not done by the companies who sell the product.Until then, I'll stay away from these devices.

Don't believe it.

Doesn't DR say somewhere on the main site that the Sawyer kit works, if it's within a short period of time?

I've looked it up before, but no real good evidence that it does well.

Then again, it's kind of hard to make a scientific study where you allow people to get bitten, then don't treat them (you need a control group, right?). Plus you can't standardize the dose injected.

Well, there are studies:
http://www.doctorross.co.za/wp-content/u...d-clin-n-am.pdf

But I have 9 grad students at my disposal and I can find studies that support or disconfirm anything. So this is only FWIW.

Snakebite suction devices don't remove venom: they just suck.

haha


Funny, I posted this same article here in 2005.
Not sure of any studies to refute this one in the last few years, but please correct me if you have something that shows it works. This says they don't.




Suction for venomous snakebite: a study of "mock venom" extraction in a human model.
Ann Emerg Med 2004 Feb;43(2):181-6 (ISSN: 1097-6760)
Alberts MB; Shalit M; Lo Galbo F
Department of Emergency Medicine, University Medical Center, University of California, San Francisco, Fresno 93702, USA.

STUDY OBJECTIVE: We determine the percentage of mock venom recovered by a suction device (Sawyer Extractor pump) in a simulated snakebite in human volunteers. METHODS: A mock venom (1 mL normal saline solution, 5.0 mg albumin, 2.5 mg aggregated albumin) radioactively labeled with 1 mCi of technetium was injected with a curved 16-gauge hypodermic needle 1 cm into the right lateral lower leg of 8 supine male volunteers aged 28 to 51 years. The Sawyer Extractor pump was applied after a 3-minute delay, and the blood removed by suction was collected after an additional 15 minutes. A 1991 Siemens Diacam was used to take measurements of the radioactive counts extracted and those remaining in the leg and body. RESULTS: The "envenomation load," as measured by mean radioactivity in the leg after injection, was 89,895 counts/min. The mean radioactivity found in the blood extracted in the 15 minutes of suction was 38.5 counts/min (95% confidence interval [CI] -33 to 110 counts/min), representing 0.04% of the envenomation load. The postextraction leg count was less than the envenomation load by 1,832 counts/min (95% CI -3,863 to 200 counts/min), representing a 2.0% decrease in the total body venom load. CONCLUSION: The Sawyer Extractor pump removed bloody fluid from our simulated snakebite wounds but removed virtually no mock venom, which suggests that suction is unlikely to be an effective treatment for reducing the total body venom burden after a venomous snakebite.

I used a CUTTER brand on an infection on my sons knee once.I took him to the doctor after I saw how much it removed. The culture later showed it to be MRSA type.The doctor said suction was a very good idea.Squeezing can spread the infection encapsulation(sp) out under the skin making it worse.At the follow up appointment it was healing faster than expected.The doctor gave credit to the snake bite kit for this.Try to find more than one use for any thing.....


BOATMAN
John

Unfortunately, all of the studies I've seen only prove that it doesn't work if you don't follow the directions.