General critique of EDC and BOB kits..

Looking at dozens of kits, bags and lists, two things stand out for me --

1. Too many sharps. Some kits have 5 knives...A folder, a small folder, fixed blade, a multi-tool and all too often a big machete. Too much redundancy and weight.

2. Many kits still include quarters. For a pay phone.

Teacher

My gripes with BOBs are mostly that there is just too much stuff in them and they are just too heavy.

I think quarters are OK. Pop machines still take them.

I don't understand the mentality of having 5 pounds of knives and 20 pounds of guns and ammo in a BOB.

I also do not understand keeping MREs in a BOB.

What bothers me most though are people who have all kinds of crap so they can walk home and do not have appropriate foot wear.

Amen.

Need to also add "Or the necessary fitness to make the trip."

If folks hiked 10 miles with some of these bags, they'd probably get a lot lighter (the bags and the people).

9/11 was a harsh lesson in footwear for many in DC and NYC, especially women, who ended up walking home from work.

I won't judge other people's lists without seeing the actual lists and knowing the context -- anticipated mileage, climate, terrain, dependents, crisis event, etcetera. But I'm mindful of my own tendency to overpack for every trip and suspect I am not alone in being prone to go overboard in a BOB and EDC.

I've tried to address this by becoming more cognizant of the fact that I'm rarely more than a couple hours walk from my vehicle, office or home -- all of which are well stocked. So I feel less compelled these days to have everything in my purse or rucksack.

Jury duty yesterday was one occasion for this situational awareness. Knowing I'd be going through security screening at a courthouse and it is within easy walking distance of home (I can sustain a 3 mph clip for a good while), I dumped my purse out, left the leatherman and Bic lighter at home and took only a small Fenix flashlight (I've become superstitious about having a flashlight or Petzl Zipka head-wrist lamp with me at ALL times, especially in office buildings), cash, wallet, Kindle, phone, cotton bandanas.

This thread is another reminder that I need to tear my car apart. I like to do spring and fall makeovers and inventories of the contents.


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The title includes EDC. Quarters are a good thing to EDC in an urban environment because there are still vending machines that do not use electricity.

Jeanette Isabelle

I can’t speak for BOBs because I’m probably the only member of this forum who does not have one. But I would think a person would know they have gone overboard with their EDC when they carry it everyday.

Jeanette Isabelle

Quarters: Pay phones, pop machines , shopping carts. And, Oh yeah, they're also money!

Payphones: They still exist in MANY places and a little more situational awareness will probably reveal them. I realize that I'm in the minority of non-cel phone EDCers, and am probably inclined to be more aware of these things, but if haven't you ever had a cell phone that stopped working?

My cell phone stopped working when I disconnected it from the charger in my Jeep a few months ago. It just wouldn't power on anymore. There I was, six months pregnant, in the winter, on an public transit excursion to the big city hospital, while hubby was at work. There was a fire on the subway that day too, which stopped the trains for a few hours, which made we exceptionally late getting home. Thank goodness for pay phones!

Right there with you, Dagny. I go through a kit overhaul every spring and fall, the toughest seasons in these here parts. The season always starts with an overloaded pack, with too many redundancies. I work those out in the first couple of trips, with the help of you guys, and trim down to a comfortable load pretty quickly.

I do over pack compared to others, but I have to say that I don't get why that would bother anybody else, except maybe my hubby who has to work around the gear in the back of my Jeep whenever he uses it. (The sharing of marital space is a topic for another thread.)

Well said, Dagny! Everyone is unique and so, too, are our kits.

Not in my country anymore. Must be quite a lot of years since I last saw a payphone anywhere.

Wow! Not even in the hospital or community center?

There are fewer of them around here and they. They cost 50¢ instead of the quarter it used to, but they're still around. Two examples from my personal daily life: The were at least three within easy walking distance of my office, and when I was commuting to Toronto this past year, there was one in every TTC station and hospital. As far as I am aware, all of our Provincial and National Parks have payphones also.

Last one I used was in a campground and it was like 4.75 for a 3 minute call!

I'm to the point of leaving out some "survival" stuff in favor of other things. I think in terms of house - bedroom, kitchen, bathroom. Add in some minor stuff and that's where I want to be. A decent, spend 4-5 days out in the weather kit.

As to quarters, I have $3.00 in quarters in the bag. And if the soda machines aren't working, and I am jonesing for a DP, I do have a pry bar. I can find a big rock (j/k). Like BPJ I am not umbilical corded to my cell phone. And where I live it's not that hard to find a pay phone. BTDT when I locked my keys in my truck. Think gas stations.

I have seen a few around town but they are few and far between.

many seem to have signs advertising you can call mexico on them.

Its very rare to see a pay phone any more and then you have a pretty high chance of it not working.

A worthwhile pursuit if you wish to refine your BOB is to indulge in a few backpacking trips. That experience will show you what is really critical for your well being.

I am a fairly experienced climber and backpacker. My strategy of choice is to shelter in place. I will leave if I must, but I would rather seize the home field advantage

I'll add a few more!

3. Not enough food, fuel or water (or means to filter or purify water). Have seen someone who thinks a single MRE is enough to sustain for 72hrs

4. No means of keeping warm when sleeping (sleeping bag + pad).

5. Lack of good clothing or change of clothing for insulation and comfort (first means of shelter).

6. Lack of navigation tools.

7. Lack of communications/signaling for awareness and for rescue.

8. Lots of trendy survival tools but lack of knowledge on how to use them properly or efficiently.

9. Shelter such as tents are rarely added for BOB kits instead reliant on improvised shelter systems which are inefficient, energy and time consuming to construct.

10. Poor selection of backpack for the intending pack loads.

I never understand the food thing either, Liath. Yes, you will live for three weeks without food, but how well will you function? Not to mention the warmth it offers in cold weather or hypothermia situations. Skipping it as part of my EDC? Sure! I also understand the debates over how best to complete a food plan, but not whether or not you need it in a BOB.

For that matter, your entire list is made up of things that bug me when I often hear suggested as a stock answer to people asking for advice on their BOB. I think you're dead on.

5 sharps girl would like to offer a little insight into my particular set-up. Not trying to be defensive, just trying to illustrate that everyone's situation is different.

1. Leatherman Wave - this is part of my EDC that I keep on my body when I go off-roading. If I don't list it, someone always suggests a multi-tool. I use the knife for food, but I also keep it around for the pliers, scissors and screwdrivers.

2. Fixed blade - this is dedicated to non-food stuff like wood processing, cutting ropes and vines, etc.

3. Gerber Clutch on lanyard - stored in kit but worn on body and used regularly at Scouting events. This is a really tiny blade and almost not worth carrying except that it comes in handy a lot at Scouting meetings and events, it shaves sticks pretty well and would make a decent backup in the bush should I ever drop lose my primary knife.

4. Tiny folding knife in fire kit - this is the scraper for the ferro rod, in a stand alone fire kit that my son and Scouts often use.

5. Bahco Laplander - we're still going below freezing here and processing wood without a saw or axe is very difficult. This particular saw is new for me. I won it in the fall and haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

Now, in the late spring, summer and early fall, I can ditch the saw/axe, but I still sit at 4 sharps and I have to say that I'm pretty happy with that set up for my BOB. On the other hand, I only usually EDC one or two - my Wave and the SAK on my key chain, which is my absolute EDC when I leave the house.

Or forgetting the whole purpose of having a BOB and prepping is to prepare for the unexpected. What if you ever are forced to grab your BOB and go and after a few days to a week arrive at your destination only to find out its been destroyed so the food stock you were counting on is gone too. Better to have food in your BOB to sustain those first few days.

Absolutely on all counts, Izzy! Just like a campfire, food has a lot of benefits, even if you don't strictly need it in a given scenario. I can't imagine getting stuck somewhere with my kids/husband for an extended length of time without food. We'd be looking at increasing crankiness, headache, nausea, lack of focus... and that's just me! LOL!

Same here.

1) Leatherman wave in my EDC, pocket or belt.
2) Leatherman Squirt S2 in the EDC pouch, it stays in my work backpack or goes with my BOB.
3) Leatherman Squirt P4 in the PSK. Say the Wave falls off my belt or out of my pocket the little squirt in the PSK is a backup.
4) Buck 110 in the BOB.
5) Buck Travelmate in the BOB.
6) Buck folding saw in the BOB.
7) Buck camp ax on the INCH
8) Leatherman New Wave and Squirt EL in the INCH Toolkit.
9) Fixed knife on wish list.

Each one complements the others well, I don't see an easy way to eliminate one.
For example the Wave I can't carry at work so the small pouch with it and my cell phone charger, etc go. When we go out of town the BOB goes and that pouch goes too because it has my cell phone charger, I'm not going to take the S2 out so then its redundant with the Wave that would then be on my belt.

True, Eugene. I never understand it when people assume that their BOL is going to be perfectly intact and supplied when they get there, or that it's only going to take X number of days to get there, or that they'll be able to do it all by vehicle, etc... In my mind, when I plan a bug-out, (Like Hikermor, bugging-in is plan A, except in a select few scenarios,) there's always a niggly voice in the back of my head whispering "What if..." Can I plan for every eventuality? No. But my mentality is "Hope for the best and plan for the worst", and I think that if it comes to that, I shouldn't expect it to go off without a hitch.

We were watching Out of Wild Venezuela the other night, and one of the participants destroyed her boots to make something or other, under the assumption that they were essentially going to be saved when they got around the next bend in the river. My son said to the screen "You're so dumb. It's not over yet. What if something happens before you get to the end?" It made this mama proud.

I need to add that, personally, I think a great piece of advice that's already come up here, is to take your kit out for a test run. Then tweak it and take it out again. Not only will you trim it down and identify gaps, you'll get used to the set up and each individual piece of gear.

Right now, for example, I'm just getting back into the swing of things after a pregnancy, and adjusting to life with a new baby. I'm testing a new BOB set-up that's going to be a general store for my day hiking/overnight and weekend/week long set-ups. In addition to getting my hiking legs back under me and losing this baby weight, I'm trying out a new pack (old pack, new use), a new stove (DIY alcohol) and a new saw. We're doing some day hiking, and the overnighters start in a few weeks. I hope to have the pack dialled in shortly thereafter. Part of that process is asking yo guys for feedback and I really appreciate your insights!

For my fellow gear addicts and over-packers:

Skill and experience definitely out weight gear, and every scenario is different, as are the scope of our EDC and BOBs. It's true that the more you know the less you need to carry, but that doesn't mean you have to go only bare essentials, as long as you're willing to hoof it, or at least be willing to adjust your load as you need to. (heck, the bare essentials for some people seems to be nothing. FWIW, I use a combo of the Law of 3s, Dave Caterbury's 10 Cs and Bear Grylls' "PRWF" as a basis for my kit building, and group my gear around the sub-kits of Shelter, Fire, Water, Signalling, Navigation and Food. (The top three change priority based on the seasonal weather.)

As an example, when I blew my shoulder apart a couple of years ago, I had a choice. I could lighten my loads or stop carrying anything all together. I chose to adjust. I'm still adjusting actually. My shoulder has a weight limit that I need to stay below when I'm on foot, and it's lower than what the rest of my body can tolerate. Remember, though, that adjusting your load can mean carrying fewer things, carrying lighter things or a combination of both.

Great point, spuds. 50¢ is for a local call. (Not sure how long.) Long distance is much more. Take a few quarters (a roll?) Or try to call collect. 911 is always free in these part,btw.

That is indeed a very good saw for its size. I have one too. Haven´t used very much but enough to have got a feel for it. Plus it is practical for backpacking because its foldable. And the teflon on the blade makes it glide nicely through fresh wood.
You don´t cut down huge trees with it but up to a diameter of some 6 inches is doable.

Don´t remember if I have posted this before so here is my "bushcraftset".
Doesn´t weigh much, around 1kg and doesn´t take up much space.
But get´s the job done building a shelter or fire.

Not a BOB'er here. I do carry certain daily items to get me around though. One item I carry is about 6 quarters. Not especially for a payphone, although they can be used in a payphone.

If you paid attention to the coverage of the Boston marathon bombing, people could not get out on cell phones due to traffic saturation. It has happened before and will happen again. If you want another backup means of communication, the payphone, if found, will provide a means to phone home.

The quarters are also good for a drink or some food items in vending machines, most require power. In a dire situation a rock may be the way to the goodies. Would have to be very dire.

The rest of my EDC is a Victorinox Rambler knife, keys with a P-38 and Tweezers attached. A Fisher Space Pen, Burt's Bees chapstick, wallet, comb, cell phone, O light i1 flashlight, spare battery, eyeglasses and a watch.

I have never needed anything beyond this. Bugging out will not be something on a moments notice, so if I need to leave I can pack accordingly. We don't have hurricanes, floods, tornados or earthquakes here. Not much to run from what I can tell.

I tend to stay in the Urban "Jungle" so to speak, but I have a backpack that I carry a lot my life's little necessities in. I have a Multi-tool and a Tanto SOG Flash II that I EDC as I find myself using them all the time.

In my bag I carry a back up of the medicines I tend to take daily, a "overnight" kit (Toothbrush, Deodorant etc..), a good poncho in the event of an emergency, a pair of tactile gloves, a good "IT" screwdriver, a flashlight, and some other misc stuff.

And... that bag is not really so lite anymore, but I'm a good sized guy so it's not too bad. I actually walked with it for about two miles the other day and I did fine. I don't think I would want to walk 10 with it.. which brings me to the a great point above.. Physical Fitness.

That's my goal this year.. to get back on the bike, to get back on the trails and strengthen up my legs and back. It's the one aspect of my preparedness that I feel the worst about.

Rod

Also.. That Laplander Saw (I keep it in my truck) is awesome. I've never seen anything cut wood as well as that thing does. It's amazing.

Thanks,added it to my amazon order.

This documentary shows Australian SAS selection process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC7OVRTihV8

After a few days of no food, limited sleep and carrying pack weights similar to the 'all guns and no groceries BOB crowd' all day, they even have trouble constructing a triangular shaped coup for someones Bermuda chickens. And we are not even talking about an environment where hypothermia is a real issue.

They end getting a reward meal that would make a billy goat puke and they shoveled it down with enthusiasm!

Starvation can even make one behave like a Norwegian...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STzgXXU6GpI

I do not have much in the way of edc. just don't see the purpose.

a folding pocket knife, a cell phone, and a small flashlight attached to my key ring.

a couple hankies, wallet, comb.

pen and notebook.

I do keep more stuff in my office and in my car.

It wasn't the SAS selection process, but a couple of years ago, at an all day event with my Beaver Scouts (5-7 yo), the lunch menu was burgers for the grown-ups. I missed the morning snack but gratefully accepted a burger from someone around noonish.

After spending the day in the hot sun, carrying a day pack that probably held 30 pounds of FAK, meds, water bottles, sunscreen, extra hats, etc., hiking with that pack on my chest and a kid on my back at almost every turn, well hydrated but with no rest breaks or snacks for me since about 6:30am (LOTS for the kiddos), and then making several trips on foot hauling tired kiddos and wagon loads of sun tents, food coolers, water coolers, blankets and lawn chairs back to the cabin, my feet and back were achy, I was headachy and beyond hungry.

I finally ate that burger about 6:45pm. The cheap processed beef patty, cheese, bun and dab of ketchup had congealed into an indescribable warm, blob-like brick that had little resemblance to a hamburger or even food. I'm sure the Food Inspection people would have fainted if they knew I was even considering eating it. I have never eaten anything better in my life.

That is a lot of poundage (I hope you were exagerating). But a knife is a necessity, I can't imagine you were implying otherwise. I never leave my house without a knife, let alone in a survival situation. As far as firearms, you don't need anywhere near 20 lbs. A firearm can serve multiple uses - food procurement, self defense, and signalling. So depending on your situation/location, that may be worth the 3-3/4 lbs of a single-shot .22 breakdown rifle and ammo. I don't have a rifle in my backpack BOB, nor do I EDC one, but I do have one in my car kit. And I do EDC a knife (a medium folder), have another one in my BOB (a medium fixed blade), and yet another in my car kit (a larger fixed blade). I do not consider any of that "wasted weight". But my kits are full of lots of other stuff too. For example, I would not leave out water and water purification methods, nor fire starting nor signalling methods, to add an extra box of ammo, etc. You need a balance of what is appropriate for your individual situation/location.

A little levity:

Zoidburg the Can Opener

Izzy, I was fascinated watching Ed. I remember thinking that he was in trouble when he cooked up all those fish in the dutch oven on the first night instead of eating one or two and smoking the rest. I haven't watched it in a while though, so I'm going to spin it up again. Thanks for the reminder about it!

Here's a link to Part One for anyone who hasn't seen it:

Alone in the Wild Pt.1

EDIT: watching episode 1 now. I forgot how overwhelmed he seemed to be from the moment his boots hit the ground.

I love good food when I'm in the bush, and have produced many a mouth-watering meal with my Dutch oven, but I'd never hump it in my pack.

Tip for my fellow cast iron lovers, I've got a tiny cast iron skillet that I take sometimes. I use it for bannock, bacon, etc... It's a lot smaller and lighter than a Dutch oven. That said, I don't take it on long backpacking trips very often because even it is just too darned heavy.

I am pretty serious about the weight issue. I have seen BOB/GHB descriptions where I know there is at least 25 pounds of knives, guns and ammo.

I have seen lists of stuff in these things that must exceed 100 pounds. I doubt I could carry that to the corner and back.

I think often when we are incredulous about someones BOB / INCH / whatever list it shows a disconnect in fundamental assumptions and risk assessments between us and the list's owner.

For example, on another thread I implied that I thought the concept of an INCH bag was, using TeacherRO's phrase, an example of MUSHY thinking. This is because, according to my knowledge and assessment of the risks facing us in most of the Western World (or at least US / Canada), that there is such an extremely low probability that such a kit would be required that I think the concept itself is needless.

Many BOBs seem to fall into a similar category for me, though I think certain locations do have risks that could make some of the BOBs I've seen make sense. That said, in my location I really don't see the need for one (at least not the "traditional" BOB we are discussing here).

Therefore, rather than discussing how many guns or knives are necessary, it might make sense first to have a discussion about what situations would require the use of said kit, and what plans the kit would be required to facilitate.

I agree, Denis. We invite each other into our heads sometimes but that doesn't mean we're always going to understand each other when we do. We're really good about trying here at ETS though. :-)

Other than a lot of guns, (how many that is IMO, I can't say, but sometimes I just think, "Whoa!! And then I find 13 lighters in my Jeep consoles today and I kinda sorta start to understand.) I just realized that there is always one thing that makes me think, "Really?" when I hear it. I've never given feedback about it because I figure that I'm biased against it because it's something that I just don't understand. Handcuff key?

For military, LEO and other carry handcuff career guys, I get it, but for the average Joe? I just can't get into that mindset. Nobody's ever suggested that I add one to my kit, and I really don't think it's a detriment for anyone else to carry one, so I just keep my mouth shut about it. (I'd probably mention something if asked and I thought that someone had too many guns at the expense of some other necessity, but I would tread lightly.)

There's a lot of nonsensical junk out there. I guess people are buying it (why???)

Here's a great example:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1699133996/benchmade-1200-tactical-pen-aluminum

Who in the world would want such a silly thing? A "tactical pen"? That costs over $125? "Calling all morons, calling all morons - blue light special - tactical pens on sale in the idiots department."

If someone was attacking me, and they were close enough where I could jab them in the ribs, I'd be using that tactical pen for eyeballs, ear canals, creating a shish-ka-Bob with a part of their anatomy, or something else with more proven "stunability". Once they get that close, you have made some pretty severe tactical self defense errors already. Poking them in the ribs at that point would be yet another tactical error IMHO.

Anyway, I'm getting WAY off topic here... Sorry about that.

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One month ago, I could say the same. But the last two weeks things have changed. In my corner of the world, earthquakes are only heard about in TV. However, last two weeks people experienced tremors TWO times, one week apart.

It was not very serious by many standards , but since it was new to folks here , some freaked out big time. Several companies and establishments evacuated their buildings and sent their employees home, on both occasions.

It was even more disturbing when - in the same few days - we saw the bombings in Iraq, Boston ..etc. There is now more e-talk about end of times.


The juice is :

LIFE CAN BE VERY VERY UNPREDICTABLE.

I know my BOB is too heavy to hoof long distances, but I'm okay with that. If I need to go a long way on foot I'll leave stuff behind that isn't applicable to the current situation. Otherwise I'll be glad to pay the tiny fuel economy penalty in my car.

Five sharps I don't have but I do have four: LM Surge, fixed blade, folder, and folding saw. This makes sense to me -- but again, I don't plan to carry it all very far. The Surge gets the most use by far.

I broke in a pair of boots and committed them to the car kit, along with a change of clothes and spare outerwear.

Of course, we're reminded today of a different need for a BOB, and one that our family has a totally different kind of kit for - house fire or local evacuation.

This isn't my ride in the Jeep, I might have to hoof it GHB/BOB, but rather a kit for the entire family in case of a house fire or local evacuation. This one's designed for a quick middle of the night dash out of the house and into a hotel or staying with friends and family for a few days. It's packed and ready to go in the front closet of the house. Off the top of my head, it's got:

-a couple changes of clothes (x4 for DH, DS, DSD and me)
-footwear (x4)
-toiletries
-copies of important documents
-cash (bills and coins)
-emergency credit card
-teddy bear, blankie, special pillow
-diapers, wipes, formula, bottles and bottled water, receiving blankets, onsies, sleepers, soother, butt cream, change pad, purelle, headlamp...
-flashlights and a small LED lantern
-fleece blankets (x4)
-water bottles (x4)
-FAK with OTC and prescription meds
-disposable ponchos (x4)
-hats and mitts (x4)
-cel phone charger for hubby's phone
-family picture

IMO, in my AO, something like the explosion in Texas yesterday, along with a house fire, are the main reasons I envision our family bugging out. We're in the heart of a manufacturing area, and major national transportation routes cuts through the area. We've also got two nuclear reactors in our region, just to up the ante a little bit.

BTW, when we plan a family road trip, these are the things I make sure we have packed. It's very dependant on distance for me, the further we go from the house, the more it becomes a priority. I don't necessarily pack a separate bag for it, since most of it we take with us anyway, whether we're going to Grandma's for the weekend or on a week long camping trip up North.

We've been stuck out of town before because of snow storms and a vehicle breakdown. We've spent impromptu time in hotels, relatives homes and in our vehicles on the side of the road. I've never felt like any of those were survival situations, and that's at least in small part due to good preps. Along with my GHB/BOB that lives in the Jeep, we're prepared to face most situations as a family without having to pack the kitchen sink every time just in case.

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As a former resident of AZ and a great admirer of the state, I have to disagree in part with your statement. AZ doesn't directly experience hurricanes, but the state does get torrential rains, the remnants of chubascoes coming up the Gulf of California, which leads to floods. living in Tucson, I have seen the city cut apart by torrential floods - traffic on bridges was stopped due to excessive water flow. Some years ago, the runway at Sky Harbor was inundated y the flooding Salt River. In my SAR career, the incident with the greatest loss of life, seven fatalities, was due to a flash flood near Tucson.


I would agree with you about tornados. Some have been reported, but they are an insignificant problem. Thank goodness!

And of course, there are always fires. I run from those. Any fertilizer plants in AZ?

A layered approach, thats how I've setup.

Each family member has a basic backpack, 4 camelbaks to be specific. A grab one thing and go situation such as a house fire those are to be grabbed, They contain some clothing, and mine sopare vehicle keys so we can get in our vehicles and back away from the burning house and get dressed.

Then each person has a pre-packed hotel/motel kit. This has any normal toiletries and OTC medicines we may need. I rotate stock through them, for example when its time for a new toothbrush it goes in the kit and the oe from the kit goes into the bathroom to replace the old one. Those hang on a closet wall right above the suitcases so a situation where you have >5 minutes to go we can just drop those into the suitcases with some additional clothes out of the closet and go.

Then you have the next layer which I have a surplus ALICE pack with various campng gear, our sleeping bags, etc. If you have more time to pack after the suitcases then those go.

I made up a checklist with items in that order after the time my wife had to pack while I was coming home from work.
We simply work down the list based on the amount of time we have to evac.

When making out of town trips then the same list is used. and pick and choose from the list as needed.

Now before someone starts with the "I bug in not out" the same layers are used there. Power goes out I know my flashlight is inthe front pocket of the backpack not buried in the junk drawer or garage smoeplace. Tornada, grab the backpacks to shelter in the basement. Having your gear organized makes it easier to bug in or out.

Heh, I live in Ohio and I've gotten hurricane damage. One of bigger hurricanes hit land and turned into a big storm with straight line winds and tore shingles off my roof a couple days later when it made it all the way up here.

Dont you get a little overwhelmed by all this?

There has been a lot of tragedy this week and our hearts break for the victims and their loved ones. But be also mindful that 99.99% of America's 300,000,000 citizens were unscathed in these events which garnered so much news coverage.

This may not be terribly comforting, but most of us are in far more danger from the fools texting while driving than some malevolent terrorist or other disasters manmade or natural.

I've lived and worked in Washington, D.C. for 25 years. There are plenty of awful scenarios to fret about and prepare for. It would be tragic to worry so much about things you cannot control that it distracts you from enjoying life in this moment, this coming weekend and the months and years ahead.

The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of us outliving the expiration date on our potassium iodide pills.


.

Well said, Dagny!

A. No such thing as too many knives.
B. Not only for payphones, which are as scare as virgins theses days, but also for vending machines.
C. Pffffttttt!!!

I went through a moik bugout where I not only carried my INCH but heavy BOB, vest, harness, extra weapons, bags, gear, water and clothing. And ran/jogged/ran jogged five miles on a dirt road for five miles, just to see if I could do it. (Full details will be on my site. It actually hurt, but I knoqw I could do it if I had to (and the nieghbors would leave me alone) irl. My thought was what if I had to carry my gear AND Bunny or Tomboy due to injuries? Five miles would give me room to work in and to be honest I was beat after the exercise. I just lay there in the ditch still wearing my gear and gulping powerade and letting my body tell mke that I was too old for such foolishness. I walked home and spent some time in the hottub with my old friends Aleve and and a muscle relaxant and saying never again. I plan the next one soon.

My problem is, there is no place within five miles that would do me any good to bug out to. Not within ten miles. Not within twenty miles. And I live right next to the mountains. 20 miles would put me in the foothills (heavily populated by escapees from surburban sprawl), 40 miles would get me to the actual high peaks (I guess I could homestead at one of the ski resorts in the area).

Unfortunately, "the mountains" are where everybody thinks they would bug out to, as if it's all unclaimed wilderness that would be some kind of easy living. In reality, you'd be bugging out to somebody elses private property and would probably be shot for trespassing in a mass survival situation. "The mountains" are not the unlimited wilderness people imagine them to be, with all kinds of game and wild plant edibles just waiting for you to run up there and grab for your 30 year survival plan. While we may dream of hiking on up to some remote and lavish corner of the Yukon to live out our days after a mass disaster, that just won't be the reality for 99.9999% of us.

If I have to bug out to somewhere (where?), it's going to have to be my good old Ford F150 4x4 that gets me there, not my Vasque hiking boots. The farthest I can image walking is the 20 feet between the truck and the campsite right next to the truck. To traverse that 20 feet, I may have to actually walk 50 feet to weave and navigate around the rest of the crowd at the campsite.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around any emergency scenario where heading off into the wild would be the best, or even a good, response. This is one of the main reasons I have such a hard time understanding the need for the type of BOBs we've been discussing that have such a wilderness focus.

In the last "MUSHY thinking" thread I said the following:


I stand by this position; I find this site to be highly practical in how it deals with preparedness.

Maybe I'll start up a separate thread to delve into the idea of bugging out to the wilderness further.

I don't have an issue with having a few posts now and then that explore options for scenarios that are so far out there that they are a little absurd. They do tend to focus the mind a little, at least mine.

I can't effectively plan for TEOTWAWKI. It is just impossible.

On another forum there are periodic posts from guys who post their bag contents and ask if it is suitable for a 30 mile hike home. I ask why they would want to do so, and generally it is something like there is a blizzard, hurricane, or tornado and my car is stuck so I have to walk home. Trying to focus them toward making better judgment calls about when a 30 mile hike home is a reasonable idea versus when it is just plain foolish is tough.

Plan for the likely and the same gear and tools for those still put you at an advantage for TEOTWAWKI



Or a better vehicle. I almost got stuck in a snow situation and decide the .5mpg different between 2wd and 4wd wasn't worth the savings.

One of the things I get when this question comes up is what about if you are low on gas and the electricity is off? My answer is 30 miles is 2 gallons of gas for most any vehicle. You are actually saying you let the gas tank in your car get below 2 gallons?

I just plain do not understand people who live in snow country that do not have 4WD or AWD. The gas mileage penalty is not that much. Having an appropriate vehicle for the conditions you will likely face is part of adequate preparations IMO.

The other answer I get sometimes is how they got stuck at work 30 miles away during a hurricane or blizzard. My response is how in the heck did a blizzard or hurricane manage to sneak up on you? You get several days of warning on such things.

This is very true Haeritig. Sorry if I misspelled your name again. We have a high sierra desert here, where I can hide people I have trained (Bunny, Tomboy, wonder buns, and a few others) while I go raise Hell with those causing the problem and find a way out. I have a cabin/homestead in the mountains, and a tiny retreat disquised as a micro farm out in the desert several miles from the mountains. Plus we have line shacks. Like I said before, my plan would be to just stay on the ranch. We have and can grow plenty of food. I doubt anything will happen, but it doesn't hurt to have a plan and be prepared.

one of reasons I like this board is the problem solving scenarios presented by the members....since retirement, I don't get the number of problems to solve that I once did...tropical weather is a yearly threat, and I have a shelter in place vs. evacuation plan tied to the Safir-Simpson storm categories and the anticipated land fall location... that is pretty finite... my most probable scenarios are centered around temporary interruption to my vehicle's ability to travel due to a mechanical failure where AAA can't be reached, or shut down of the highway itself ...therefore my GHB bag has morphed into a remain overnight (RON) bag, plus a milk crate containing additional and heavier equipment (machete, folding shovel, fuel, extra food) to make my stay in my small SUV a little more pleasant....the bag itself has a water bladder and I carry a case of bottled water, but it would be extreme circumstances for me to walk out... conversely, if I had to "live off the land" my source of protein is to the west... and I'm still pretty good with a cast net and "snatch hook"...

Every time I store water in a bladder, even in the fridge, it go's bad. Be careful and check your bladder is my unasked for advice Les.

Snake_Doctor... thanks for the advice.. the bag in question is a Blackhawk Hydro Storm from the prize table at Ft Benning, and supposedly has antimicrobial properties... I used a CamelBak Rogue for half a dozen seasons for USPSA, but pull a little wheeled cooler with bottled water now...there is a Sawyer filter bottle in the outer pocket..

Wish I had a picture,I bought a thing that looks like a milk crate,twice as long,with rubber like coating on the metal wire its made of.Very nice,and it doesnt slide around on the truck bed liner.
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I just plain do not understand people who live in snow country that do not have 4WD or AWD. The gas mileage penalty is not that much. Having an appropriate vehicle for the conditions you will likely face is part of adequate preparations IMO.

I can understand that.

Some folks just dont have to leave home in bad weather.Others can wait for plowed roads and put on chains.Cancel work.

In my case,we lived here a season or 2 when the Chevy S-10 died.At the time we spent more time away from home than here with job.So we bought a car with zippy handling that cruised at 75MPH (we had a LOT of driving to do) and ate up the mtn roads 10 months of the year. Problem,job situation changed,and new job meant being home,and MUST show,no excuses but blizzard-ed in.So thats when I learned 4x4 lesson.Though I did have a baja bug that was usually good in snow if not high centered.Not ideal...Brrrrr!

So yeah,I can see where some folks,and newbies moving in,can have wrong vehicle for conditions.A lot of renters from flatlands with flatland vehicles,a new vehicle may not be doable for many and they had no idea what snow really means.Lots of situations can happen to folks.

No way can I see anything short of 4x4 now,there are few cons (cant drive 75,slight decrease in MPG) but nothing has stopped us yet,pretty amazing for snow country.Havent even had to chain up once yet,blows my mind.

Spuds.. the #1 reason I don't get good gas mileage...with the Swiss Ranger stove and a can of sterno, but without any water the pack is very manageable, but I still don't plan on a walkout.. it's a convenient way to organize and store articles and still gives me some options ... I forgot I used the real crate for my 3 gun cart, and substituted one of my Staples crates from school.. orange box is FAK that stays in car.. I have a separate trauma bag for the range

Cheaper than dirt has a bladder with a tiny inline filter also Les. Sorry I can't remember the price on it.

The people here aren't used to snow' Get half an inch and they're slidin around playin bumper cars. An inch and they close the schools.

Nice set up les

I have a trauma kit in my range gear. Too many idiots go there with no safety training. And I carry a res Q pac in my cargo pocket.

I carry a roll of quarters that are now meant for vending machines instead of pay phones.

living fairly remotely, we carry more in our vehicles than we'd likely need.

its diverse gear to cover as many situations as possible (wet/dry, summer/winter, long/short-term, safe/violent, healthy/injuried, etc) but we do so using a layered technique (a modification of rowe's first-second-last-line kit concept) of having the most important things always on the body or in pockets, then belt/coat-pocket items, then small pouchs, then vests, then packs, then vehicle-only gear/tools.

if not used in place, depending on the need, the necessary equipment likely to be needed can be chosen and carried away very quickly. and if its later discovered that too much has been taken (due to distance/speed of foot travel), less important items can be pitched/hidden.

knowledge and flexibility is the key.

Agreed.

And many edc and bob kits are far too heavy. 10-15# is ok for daily and for a pack? perhaps 30-40.

IMHO - more food and water in a daily kit. most problems are just delays.
And add headphones so you can listen to the radio.

Many are also Waaaay to heavy. 25 plus kilos.

And gold? Seems like a heavy exchange units that few people know the value of.

I don't see any previous mention of gold, so I don't know the circumstances in which it was advocated. I do know that it provides a lot of value in very little weight. For example, a gold sovereign is worth around $300, but weighs under 8 grams. That's slightly more than a US quarter and less than a 50c coin. You need to have a lot of it before its heaviness becomes an issue.

Snake offers us a golden tip here: don't just pack a bag and be done with it. Get out there and get dirt time with it. Carry it and use it. Put your kit and yourself through the paces. Everyone is going to have their own comfort zone in terms of gear and weight, and the only way to truly find yours, IMO, is to get out there and test out your setup.

Personally, I get out with my kit as often as I can, day hiking or overnighting, and make adjustments every time I get back. It's all well and good to get feedback from like minded folks (and I, for one, really appreciate the insight) but ultimately, you're the one who's going to have to carry and depend on your kit. That sweet spot where theory and real world experience meet is where you want to focus.

I'm moving toward layered kits; on body, office bag (laptop bag) car kit and various home ones.

bacpacjac - yes to testing. I tried a new water bottle on a hike recently - only to discover the cap wasn't sealing properly. It leaked on everything. Bad design.

Test and train, study and practice. Being hungry in the rain is not the time to read your stove's instructions...

TRO

It's amazing how much more comfortable I am with my gear and my skills after a gazillion day hikes over the past few months. I've found big and little ways to improve my day hike and BOB set-ups. If funds ever allow, they'll both get better in terms of weight and size but, at the moment I'm really confident with both of them. Every bit of dirt time helps!

..Plus which I have a great excuse to take different gear on hikes...and go on more hikes

I'm looking more and more at rolling bags for some kits -- either duffles with built in wheels or on a luggage cart

Luggage cart offers more versatility
When you arrive to a campibng location, detach the bag from cart and use the cart for collecting wood or moving around a medium sized water container ..etc.

At home I removed the wheels and spine of my daugher's school bag and then installed on it a cut off 10 liter water bottle. It has become a useful and fun way to drag canned foods and other stuff from the pantry to kitchen or whatever