med kits

I found these two kits on brigade quartermasters.
The battle pack and the imediate response kit respectively.
anyone got any thoughts on them.
here's the links.

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.e...2Flevel3c%2Etam

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.e...2Flevel3c%2Etam

Well those kits don't look like anything. I mean they sound impresive and all but there is nothing in these packs you wouldn't be able to put together for $15. I mean if this had to be a trauma repsonse bag it is missing splints and cpr equipment, as a personal first aid kit you still have to add extra things to it Elastic bandages have really no place in the first aid since their elasticity can turn against you (either making something too tight or they can go loose on you). They are used in post first aid care. Petro burn sheets are on the controversial side since a lot of docs hate the fact that they have to clean up the burn from the jelly stuff. And I wouldn't see a need to apply the burn sheet to anyone unless they have third degree burn which happens but there are better products out there to help such patient. Trauma/Pressure dressing with velcro? When u need pressure dressing that usually involves bleeding and velcro doesn't really perform well when wet so there goes your pressure idea. On the positive side I really like the bag that fits on your leg. I wouldn't buy it unless you planning to heavly modify the contest which almost mean starting from scratches. I think that with couple of trauma dressings, med tape and some triangular bandages you will do better than with half the stuff they give you in that kit. But that's me.

Matt

You are correct in part with your caution about elastic bandages, as they can be used very inappropriately, but there is more to the story. An elastic bandage is probably the first item I would install in my FAK. I have employed them regularly for years in holding various wayward joints that were trying hard to unravel in the middle of a trip - dreadfully inconvenient situation. Mostly I have self applied them to either the knee or ankle, and kept on going, a la "Spirit of "76." I remember one trip some years ago where all the elastics we had (about five) were in use by the end of the trip. It was a better solution than littering the landscape with dead bodies....

Cautions include applying them only to a conscious individual, and watch the bandage and downstream circulation like a hawk! But then, come to think of it, you should monitor any application of a pressure bandage. The elastic bandage is certainly not for the untrained, but it definitely has a place in a FAK.

I guess iit comes down to the situation for which the FAK will be used. Think about that carefully as you assemble your gear.

Actually, I have used dry burn sheets on many a patient with 1st and 2nd degree burns, where substantial body surface area had been involved. By removing air from the burned skin, the pain involved in 1st and 2nd degree burns is significantly reduced. I would recommend all "family"/trauma first aid kits have sterile burn sheets. Generally, moist dressings (sterile saline) are used for 1st degree burns for small areas, i.e. burned finger. There is a really nice product; BURN-JEL, that is also used for 1st and even some 2nd degree burns (small surface area). The product comes in one use packets and dressings. It is not cheap, but if anyone is interested, I can provide a few web sites of medical supply companies that sell this product, as well as sterile burn sheets. Pete

Hello!
I was kind of intreagued by the leg-bag model. Can it be bought anywhere without the stuff inside. I would like to fill mine with my own First aid kit? That way I would get it as I wanterd it...

Stefan
Sweden

www.promedkits.com where theoriginal desighners of this. They do a slightly larger empty model.

Extremely interesting...Tell me more.

If you decide to create your own medical kit, you may wish to check out www.allmed.net. They have good prices and compared to what you would pay at your local drug store for supplies, you can get 2-3 times more supplies for the same money. I used the DocBlue kit as a model and modified it depending on whether or not it was going in my car, in my backpack, or staying in my home. I have also found Ebay to be valuable for sutures and larger quantities of supplies (In my experience, the medical disclaimer that sellers can sell only to authorized purchasers has NOT been enforced at all)...

Here's what we use whenever treating burns:

http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?item=BM706

But the above is so expensive that not every organisation has that. Private company I volunteer alows us to use that only in extreeme cases per their own internal protocol. I don't really care and whenever I get a chance I use it on the patients (especially kids). Also doctors in the Burn Center don't give me so much hard time for using that since it's easier to clean up than if I used a petro-jelly sheet.

Now something that we use a petro-jelly sheet for or rather its packaging... whenever we get a call to stabbin or gun shot wound we use packaging cleaned from jelly residue as a wound sealant to create an occlusive dressing.

thanks for all of the replys. I did it to try and provok a descusion on the ideas but i don't think i explained that very well.

As long as you know how to use it than it's all good. I know it may sounds silly when somebody tells you that you need to excersise a proper care when using elastic bandages but they can be dangerous. Also when you are hiking injuries do happen. You trip, fall, sprain or strain something and all those things need first aid. Than with proper care you take out elastic bandage, asses the "damage" and work on it. Reason I'm so against elastic bandages is because they give people false sense of security and cure. Pain is body's way of telling you that there is something wrong. If you didn't experienced any trauma, yet your ankle is hurting that means that there is a problem. I see people just putting on the brace or wrapping up aching joint with elastic bandage and they go on. All they are doing is further inflaming the painful location creating even more serious injury. I've seen it happening many times. I'm still in contact with a pair of women who were on the approach when I was descending from Mt. Kenya. We spend the night at the same camp and one of the ladies was limping so I asked her what happened and if she needs help. She said that her knee is swollen and she is hurting but she will go on. Her friend was a doc that gave her a protein shot, than they wrapped it up in elastic bandage to "stiffen" it up a bit and prevent bigger swelling. She never made it to the top, she never walked off the mountain they carried her down, she will be using a cane or crutches for the rest of her life. Example that you used is a different story since you guys needed to get patched up on the way back and as opposed to many you knew what were you doing. All I'm saying that there is a lot of products in med field that give people false sense of security. I see it all the time when I'm kayaking, hiking or climbing.

Matt

Here are some web site for the product:

http://www.hhwaterjel.com/Burn-Jel/burn-jel.html

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductD...p;amp;lnk=INCEP

http://www.industrialfire-safety.com/burnkits.html

http://www.ambulancia.com/respuestos/product1472.html

http://www.allmed.net/catalog/showitem.php/3375

I can get more sites if you need. Pete

I too have made "informed" purchases of "first aid" items from Ebay, mainly to take to Ecuador and supply Fire Dept., Red Cross and Civil Defense groups. However, be careful, many of the supplies are quite dated, may no longer be sterile or just not right to have in the wrong hands. The dangers of do-it-yourself suturing have been discussed here before. If you are not trained to do so, leave it to those you have the medical training, you can end up doing far more damage then you think. The same goes for I.V.'s and providing medications, both over the counter (OTC) and prescription meds to individuals if you do not know what medical conditions or medications they have or are taking. Pete

What I think about it depends on how you're going to use it and for how long you think this kit will have to last you. If it's your only medical kit on you, then I like the NAR BATTLE PACK™ FIRST AID KIT but would add to it:

More 1x3 Fabric bandaids (J&J or Swift brand) 10 total
More knuckle and Fingertip fabric bandaids 5 each (If lacking room, add the knuckle ones)
2 Steristrips (or 5 of the Bandaid equivalent)
Small tweezers
5-10 Povidone Iodine pads
10 Triple antibiotic packets (or a small tube).. I prefer the packets
2-3 burn dressing packets
No tape? Add tape
and you have no meds at all... I tend to get an upset stomach under stress or when not eating properly so I'd add
Immodium 5
Pepto Bismol tablets 12-24
Tylenol packets 5 (10 tablets total)
Motrin packets 5 (10 tablets total)
Cough drops 5 (they fit in the cracks and make you feel so much better)
Modify the amounts depending on room. I have been amazed at how much I can pack into a med kit. I originally started creating med kits with Trauma and cuts in mind. I added even small packets of sutures (they can double to sew up equipment) but I quickly realized I'll also likely need pain relief and more "ordinary" medicines. A small bottle of Visine is a good idea if it will fit.
If I'm walking I'll have blisters (Added Moleskin), and intestinal issues can quickly dehydrate you under the best circumstances... so Immodium is in all my kits too (regardless of how small..)
A few electolyte packets would also be useful.
Any prescription meds you want to add (antibiotics, pain killers, meds you normally take).

You could also trade the 71/2 shear for 51/2 ones and save some bulk (the 71/2 are very large). Some friends of mine have either used 2 packets of meds or have pulled their meds (out of larger bottles) and then put them all in one small Nalgene bottle (waterproof).

I like the idea that the kit would strap to you (or easily to the outside of a small backpack). For the amount of trauma material you get it is a bit expensive (I prefer to buy larger quanities, make a large kit and use the extras for my smaller kits)... but if you're going to buy a kit to start with this one looks interesting (in how it's organized), and so far I've been happy with the quality of everything I've gotten from BQ.

I totally agree with you <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I got the sutures when I first started buying materials and so I have a LOT of them...more than I need really. But now that I've done more research I likely would not use them but instead would use the steristrips I got and then try to get someone to a doctor. ( I guess I bought the sutures for a worse case medical meltdown in Atlanta... and one of our best friends is a doctor who lives very close by... ) So I wanted to have "what we would need" but hope we'd never use them. On the upside, I found them to be great for sewing up other things (we played with a few of them). When they get close to their expiration date in 2006 I'll resell them on Ebay (I mostly bought sealed, closed boxes of them so they hadn't been tampered with as far as I know). I also didn't buy from just any medical seller but found a few trusted sources and stayed with them to try and mitigate exactly the scenario you described.

As far as meds, I would only give medicine to myself or to my family so I know our health backgrounds... but that's sound advice you're giving. Thanks <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Our friend also told me to change my focus on what I originally was buying and instead get more of what we were more likely to use (OTC meds, 3 antibiotics, povidone iodine pads, Pepto Bismol etc)...