If you have a Altoid tin type PSK, throw it away..

Well.... at least if you do anything where getting wet holds high possibility.

I posted about the kits I made on another topic earlier for those who may have read it.

I recently wanted to give the whole PSK thing a fair shake. After reading about all the "awesomeness" of a kit utilizing a small metal tin to hold all the contents I decided it was the way to proceed. My goal was to make a kayak survival kit I could have in the pouch of my vest in case I was separated from my kayak(where most of my gear is stowed obviously) and which would contain the basics needed to spend a night or two if left with no other options.
I purchased the items, prepped the kit(s) place one in my vest and hit the river for a couple of days. Epic fail I am afraid.

Well.......

I was doing my post exercise gear checks a while ago and discovered the inside of the tin was full of water, and all items drenched. All metal components were starting to rust. The tin had a lid that snapped in place and I had this sucker wrapped tight with gorilla tape (about 3-4 complete wraps around the seam) Regardless, the water eventually found its way in. It always will after all.

Things I learned on this trip:

1. Altoid tin type PSKs are totally &*%$#*& useless around water.

2. Lofty Wiseman was wrong about his SAS combat survival tin (unless the SAS no longer trains around water)

3. Pelican cases kick serious a**. The ONLY stuff that survived the submersion and constant rain were the things packed in Pelican cases. The stuff in the expensive dry sacks was also drenched.

4. Tomorow begins phase two of the PSK saga, in which they too will find homes in said Pelican cases.

5. Altoid tin type PSKs are totally &*%$#*& useless around water.

A PSK in a inferior metal tin just isn't going to hold up to the elements. You may as well wrap everything in paper towel.

If anything folks, Check your gear and check it often. If the items in mine were in such a state after only 2 days you can imagine what they would look like after several weeks. Just my opinion, but anything placed in a tin not designed for such abuse will fail. It's so obvious now looking back I should slap myself upside the head. Should have gone with the proper gear strait from the start.

It was a fun trip though.

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[img:center][/img]

In some defense of old Lofty, the SAS tins have a rubber gasket and if taped tightly closed they stay fairly dry.

If you recall in your other post I had recommended a plastic waterproof case, not a Pelican but a Witz because it is lighter than the Pelican. I bought some various size Pelican cases for a planned two week trip to the jungles of Borneo, they are great but heavy and bulky for a pack, at least. The cases never were packed up and the Borneo trip was not to be afterall.

Good luck with the revised kit, I am sure a canoe/kayak kit for a PFD will be much more secure in a Pelican.
Looks like a fun trip in the pics! Cheers.

A mini Trangia mess tin might be a better choice than the Altoid type tin, The hinges are the weak/leak point. IIRC the SaS kits use a hinge-less tin that are easier to seal.

I'm not a fan of the Altoids kit, either, but to be fair it's a simple matter to vacuum seal it. That fixes the problems with water leaking but not, of course, the issue of size.

I'm a fan of pelican cases, and use one for my psk. I do use an altoids tin for my emergency fire kit. I wrap it in duct tape (good tinder in it's own right!) and then a ziplock and more duct tape. It hasn't failed me yet but it's a one-use kit when it comes to water proofness.

With all due respect to the OP, IMHO:
One of the special things about this forum is the ethic of speaking about disagreeable things without being disagreeable, or, in general, without resorting to comic book conventions to express profanity.
The altoid tin PSK is a tradition in the prepper world. It is not a sacred object, a Platonic ideal, or an approved school solution. It is a candy box.
It is unsuitable for a variety of applications, including water submersion, exposure to corrosive gases, and high levels of magnetism. If your survival scenario is under water, on an iron-cored asteroid, or in a planet with a chlorine atmosphere, it is a poor choice. It is probably a poor choice if you do not care for minty-fresh breath.

All should feel free to continue to use their altoid tins, or any other desired container...provided that they periodically make a sacrifice of tinder quik in front of their DR bobblehead shrine. YMMV

BTW, OP-excellent pics.

Where do I get my DR bobblehead?

Widget - yes you did, But I already had everything packed at that point. Some lessons you just have to learn the hard way. In fairness though, I have tried the Witz "see it safe' type containers before and they leaked as well. No much but enough to dampen the items inside. Borneo... That would have been a nice experience.

I know lofty Wiseman has forgotten more about the subject than I will likely ever know, I just don't like the idea of anything sealed with tape anymore. Not around water anyway. I am sure taped tins would be sufficient for "drier" activities.

Freediver - The tins I used actually had no hinges. They were Altoids type(general term) but not actually for altoids. They actually snapped together rather well. No rubber gasket however.

Phadrus - That would work, but I would go through a lot of sealing bags. It seems that I am changing/replacing/swapping/re-arranging things every day in these PSKs. At least with the Pelican I can open and close it as I please.

BPJack - on dry land I am sure it works fine. In all fairness I was in the water a fair bit. It was a new kayak as well so I purposely dunked over several times to practice self recovery before heading out. The PSK was under water a lot.

Nursemike - So long as you brought up the topic of ethical speaking on this forum help me out here. Is blatant sarcasm more or less disagreeable than comic book conventions to express profanity ?? I am still new here after all, but with respect it apears as if the pot is calling the kettle black on this one.

I wish I could have taken better pics but as the clouds show it wasn't long before the rain started and my camera isn't waterproof.

Bottom line: for some applications an Altoid tin is perfectly adequate, for other applications, not so much. Anyone can see at a glance they'd be useless if dunked in water.

I use an Altoids for keeping some small items in a form that's easier to not get misplaced. My EDC items are pocket carry. No Altoid tin means no tin to leak

OTOH a small bit of tape used in the right places and a ranger band can do wonders for keeping wet stuff out.

I think that happened because of water pump "effect", as in the tight pocket of a safety vest the tin will be often compressed and expanded as you move, thus sucking water in by a little each time. So to fix the problem - stuff the tin really tight and wrap with the tape over the lid too in order to minimize the play of the lid and walls.

Also the Gorilla tape is not really a good option for sealing, as it's not as sticky (gooey) as the regular ducttape (which is really waterproof because its original purpose is to quickly seal leaking pipes).

Ranger band?

Large rubber band/section of inner-tube.

Also I have noticed your PSK thread now. Perhaps you are using a nicer looking but wrong construction tin. The genuine Altoids tin has special ridges/bulges on the lid and sides which are suppressing the pumping effect of the walls' play very well. Or maybe yours is just too large for its shape.

Ahhhh I see. Thanks

I have heard of those used on zippo lighters to keep the fuel from evaporating. I figure it would snap/rip before being able to be pulled around anything much larger. I have never tried it however.

Another thing I've noticed in that thread. The purpose of PSK is emergency only, not a backpack substitution. Everyday unwrapping, use, and wrapping back will ruin any makeshift seal quickly.

My tin PSK has recently made its way out from the "secret" blind sewn compartment of my tent's sack bag. It was sitting there untouched for 7 years. The ducttape sealed it so well that I had to cut it around the lid to open the tin. No wonder the content (fire starting and fishing) was in ideal shape.

All in all, my final conclusion would be: the Gorilla tape is not good for waterproof/airtight sealing.

I used what I had on hand, same as anyone. They are boker gift knife boxes and believe it or not they snap together real well. A good satisfying pop when the two halves connect. If nothing else I figured they were as good as anything else in the metal tin area of selection. I thought the tape would hold up. They will be used as fishing kits or something now. They still do have some utility to them, just not what I had intended. Always fun to experiment at the end of the day.

I would rather get outside and see firsthand what works and what don't than sit on the couch and speculate as many people I know do. They may still prove adequate for my mountain bike kit (should spend less time under water on my bike)

I wanted a general "one type fits all" PSK to be put in all my outdoor stuff (kayak, bike, hunting bag etc)

Maybe that was my first mistake...

Good click/snap/pop means only that the tin lip is fresh and that the metal is flexing well, the air gap is still there. Just try the real duct tape (thin, silver-grey one) next, don't cut it narrow. It's really working.

True. after being in the water with it I will always want to open it to check the contents however. Tape is just a PITA for that regardless, especially if using fresh tape to reseal the can each time.(fairly obvious that it would be looking back) Even now that I am switching to a Pelican case I will open and check the contents after going for a splash.

Live and learn they say.

My thoughts here, probably already said by everyone else...

1) You're right.
2) If you're sticking w/your Altoids tin use a lot of electrical tape.
3a) Strive to make everything in your PSK capable of enduring long term water exposure.
3b) I don't often carry a PSK. When I do it is in a round candy tin well electrical taped. A Pelican case or Otter box would provide more water protection (and I'm often on the water) but at the cost of substantially more bulk. Everything I do carry on me, which again usually does not include a PSK, I want to be able to tolerate what I can tolerate. With the exception of my cell phone I've completed this mission. My bic lighter, Skeletool, keys (including an ARC AAA), Surefire E1B, wallet, and lip balm have all been thoroughly soaked in saltwater and after a healthy rinse with some fresh water are no worse for wear.
4) Make sure you roll down the tops on those dry bags. Nice flat folds in the roll. If the bag says you need 3 folds make it 4 or 5. I've had great success with roll top bags but only when I do my part.
5) If you're storing things in waterproof containers for any length of time keep desiccant with said items to the extent feasible.

"Water proof" is different than "water resistant". Expecting tape to make something water proof is unrealistic. But it is perfectly reasonable to use tape to make something water resistant - as in you can carry it in the rain without much worry. For kayaking, yes, you would definitely want something water proof.

Where was that 3rd picture in your initial post in this thread taken? That looks like a really neat area!

I found the problem with the dry bag. Small little tear at the seam unnoticed before I set out. I filled it up with water to find the leak and even then it was hard to spot. The problem with the sit on type of kayak is everything on deck sits in about 4 inches of water all the time.

Good idea on the desicant packs. It would help were condensation occurs for sure. I wonder if you can buy those in bulk ?

Waterproof Duck Tape

Yup. Lesson well learned. I won't make that mistake again I assure you.



Ottawa river. As you can see in the first two, it's usually pretty far across. That's why I switched to a sit on top model kayak. If you swamp, It's no fun getting all the way across to the shore to drain the boat. Every once in a while a motor boat would speed by, but not with enough frequency to rely on it for help.

Ocassionally the river branches off into smaller areas like in the third pic with tiny little islands everywhere. Once I gets my fishing license sorted I will be going back to that spot. Fish were jumping out of the water all around and I could see them swiming around the rocks. It may not look it, but the water there is very deep.

Well said, Stephen.
My apologies, I overstepped my bounds.

Gorilla tape isn't good for seal, it doesn't stretch to conform to shape. Regular electrical tape is a much better choice.

Good discussion.

I am not a fan of Altoids survival kits myself, however for the OP's purposes, double bagging the kit in small Ziploc brand double zippered bags then wrapped with an elastic to keep the plastic compact is cheaper, more effective, much easier and less hassle then other methods of wrapping the kit in various bandages of tape, ranger bands etc.

My father was a Navy helicopter pilot (starting in the 40s). He flew mostly over water doing air-sea rescue and sub hunting. I remember his Navy pocket survival kits were special plastic boxes that were wrapped in was appeared to be electrical tape. I never tested one, but I expect they were fairly watertight or they wouldn't have been very helpful.

One of the keys for me, especially when I'm paddling, is that I want my PSK on my body, not in the boat. One nice thing about an altoids tin is that it's compact, and will fit in most of my pockets easily. I always have a kit in a pelican box when I'm in a boat, but I always have the basics on my person too. some boats are designed not to sink, but that doesn't mean they won't float away.

Maybe...Maybe not. Just because the government issues it to you doesn't mean it will work as designed.(or at all for that matter) It is all made by the lowest bidder as they say. I have boxes of stuff issued that isn't very helpful

I just finished repacking my vest. The Pelican case is larger, but no so bulky as I first thought. I wouldn't want to carry it in a jeans pocket, but it fits nice in the life vest. I already had one in the other pocket for my iphone. After all the getting wet it was dry as a bone inside.

I hit some rapids a few years ago and wiped out. I went one way, my paddle another, and the canoe continued a Kilometer or so before hooking in some rocks badly dented. I took me a couple of hours to find everything again, and the canoe would sway to one side constantly afterward. Iam just getting back into this sort of activity but I still remember that day very well. Could have ended badly.

I will post some pics of the new version later....

Stephen, keep in mind that some of the Pelican cases such as the smaller 1010 and up to the 1060 models are only water resistant, not waterproof. Many kayakers and canoeists out here have discovered this the hard way when their P&S cameras, phones, GPS and other small gadgets packed in a Pelican have not survived a dip into the drink....

Really ? says here they are submersible to 50 feet.

http://www.cameracanada.com

The Pelican.com website clearly states for the 1010 model:

GREAT FOR RUGGED SPORTS - NOT FOR SWIMMING OR SUBMERGING
Water resistant, crushproof, and dust proof.

Also all the cases up to the 1060 state the same.

OTOH the Otterbox 1000 series case
I have a 1000 series and a 2500 OtterBox Drybox, both clear along with a clear Pelican 1020. The Pelican 1020 says "watertight", not "waterproof".

Altoids tins don't come with an IP rating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code

You could aways put the Altoids tin in an Aloksak or equivalent waterproof sealable bag or vacuum seal or use some RTV sealant to seal the top and bottom edges.



The idea for the SAS combat survival tin was that it was the same tin used for making rolly up cigarettes, whereby most nicotine addicts keep it on them all the time and don't really have a problem keeping their rolling tobacco dry.

Otterboxes and Pelican cases are excellent for keeping things waterproof, if you can accept the trade off for additional weight and additional bulk, which is a major downside if the idea is to keep the PSK on you at all times.



How did you keep your TP dry. I can't see me using a Pelican case for that.

Man...what a difference in info given for the same product eh? Thanks for the heads up. I guess it's always wise to go with the word of the people who made the product.

I have had these underwater on the same trip however. My camera was in one(1010) in the back of the kayak under 4 inches of water constantly. Because it's clear some fog gathered on the inside of the lid but not enough to screw up the camera. My iphone was in another Pelican (black 1020) in my vest the entire time. Like I said before, dry as a bone. Maybe it only will leak if you go deep with it?

Whats the difference between "waterproof" and "watertight"? I always assumed they were one in the same.

I bet the otterbox is good as well. The only reason I opted for the Pelican is that I have so many kicking around already.

See the big pelican stowed in the back there? That's where the TP goes ! I can deal with wet clothes for a few days but wet TP? ohhh hell no.

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All my important stuff goes in the big Pelican (1300) It was a trial run. I never took it before as it wouldn't fit in the hatch of the sit in kayak I had. Everything has to go on the deck of this one. I have since dressed it up with glow tape for the next trip. The smaller one you see had my camera inside. I had to put the camera in separate so I could access it without going over. I cannot turn around to open the 1300 while in the water else I will tip for sure. What you don't see is the fact all that gear was in several inches of water while paddeling. It drained out when I puller her up the beach.

Everything else soaked through. I got a lot to learn about keeping crap dry with this type of kayak.

I know someone will ask. Yes. everything is attached by a lanyard

Keeping your kit dry in difficult conditions has all manner of dry bags and sealed rigid boxes etc. Some it would seem are better than others. Another alternative would be the Polycarbonate Nalgenes that no one wants to drink from anymore due to the BPA. They are very lightweight, tough and waterproof.

BTW whats the make of the Dry bag which failed. It looks like one of those lightweight eVent compression sacks. One to avoid it would seem. Gul and Musto waterproof dry bags might be the way to go for your application.

http://www.speedsails.co.uk/C~Waterproof_Dry_Bags__4703.html

Before this I too thought "waterproof" and "watertight" were synonymous, but apparently in marketing lingo they are different (I wonder if there's a gov't standard for watertight). Regardless, from the quoted section above, watertight has something to do with "it floats". The question that comes to mind is, "floats for how long"? It probably floats long enough to grab it before water seeping inside causes it to not float.

In your case with it being a carry item, I would look at a small dry bag. It says "water-resistant" so again, I have no idea what that means regarding being dunked.

This problem goes past my understanding. All the contents of my PSK are waterproof and rustproof so it may leak all it wants, indeed, the case has drain holes.

Why have kit that rusts or rots unless it is cosseted and pampered?

How do you stop it from deteriorating after you take it out of the waterproof case for use?

I'm second to that, though from a different angle. The regular silver (right - water-resistant-only) duct tape works just fine if you aren't really scuba diving with it. If still not sure - add a pair of good ziplock bags to the equation. All of the above (leaking) is due to the improper equipment use (PSK is not a purse, not reading instructions and specs, lack of checking for defects beforehand, unnoticed foreign particles in closures, skipping seals maintenance procedures, not following long storage recommendations, e.t.c.). Know your gear, especially if it's a professional high tech one - it's not fool proof.

My Witz has not leaked on me. Anyway, Pelican cases are too big and impractical for carrying around.

I still like the altoids tins (mostly because I like the cinnamon altoids that come in them, yummmm, so I have a LOT of them sitting around empty) for making small kits, as well as for organizing small items for my pack, but I do have reservations about the contents getting wet in the event of an unexpected dunk in the drink. I've been experimenting with a container like these:

http://www.anypromo.com/p-677401-swim-safe-box.htm?Source=PLA&gclid=CP2tu7fb7rECFQfCKgodqRUA5g

to keep the contents dry. I came across this type of container during a vacation at a water park (and DW also found some on clearance online and ordered them as well). The altoids tin fits in it perfectly with a little room around it for additional items (I'm also considering using them as containers for BOB fire kits, depending on if they pass the dunking test mentioned next).

A fairly simple test of whether the container will indeed keep the water out completely is to put some paper towels or TP in it and keep it submerged in your bathtub, in a kiddie pool out back, in a pot of water, or whatever you want to use. Leave it there however long you want (until morning, or a day or two), then take it out and open it up. The paper towels or TP will let you know for sure if any significant amount of water has made it in. I haven't tested the case I mentioned above this way yet, so I can't vouch for it's waterproofness, or it's watertightness, I'm still confused which is which, so let's just say I'm not sure it will keep the water out yet.

I'll test these out, sure, but I also like the looks of the otterbox 1000 that someone already mentioned, though they are quite a bit more expensive. My inner tightwad coming out again. Anyway, whatever you come up with or end up using, keeping the stuff inside dry is definitely a plus.

Usual disclaimers, no affiliations with any company mentioned or posted to. As always, YMMV.

I saw some these waterproof plastic boxes the other day (I think at Walmart). Here thay are at Caelas:

Plano Waterproof Stowaways

Ahhh hell,

I was playing around with photobucket and obviously killed all the pics of stuff. Oops... See if I can't fix that.

Actually, and this will make some of you laugh(and the rest think I am an idiot) I have played around a bit more with this whole PSK idea and decided to go back to the way I have always done things. I stripped the kits down and placed the items in pockets/pouches etc and left it at that. I did however, take one of the pelican kits out and gave it hell to see if it would leak and I am happy to say it did not.(for those who wanted to know) I know the web says it isn't waterproof, but at several feet it held up just fine.

After it was all said and done I just didn't like having everything stored in a PSK (tin/plastic case or otherwise) I placed the whistle, signal mirror and flashlight on lanyards attached to the vest, Pinned the mini compass to the zipper pull, added the fire steel combo to a pocket with the para cord and heat sheet blanket and attached a rescue knife(hook type) to the straps. The WM1 will be worn around my neck as always. The matches/striker/tinder went into a plastic vial. While on a mountain biking trip yesterday I put the wire saw through its paces just to test it out and am still undecided if it is usefully enough to bother carrying or not (I will post something on that later)

One thing that will remain in a Pelican case for now is my iphone. That device is likely to save my bacon before everything else is after all.

Like I said before, I wanted to give the idea a fair shake before knocking it. Some folks may like the idea of a little survival "kit" but I experimented and found it's not for me.

Thanks for all the feedback and replies folks. If nothing else it was a good learning experience for me.

This is what it did look like before I changed it again, just for the sake of posting.
I had one for the kayak and one for the bike.

[img:center][/img]

There are times where a nicely packaged PSK works quite well, and there are situations where it doesn't. Like you,I usually am quite well equipped with the (pick a number between ten and fifteen) Essentials somewhere on my body as EDC; primarily because the firestarter, map, compass, knife, etc. will be used regularly - I don't usually need to lug around a bunch of redundant items, especially if I am on foot, which is typically the case.

Like many of us, I am redundant on fire lighting equipment. Typically I use a regular lighter as my ordinary fire or stove igniter, ut I do tuck away other means - matches, cotton balls, and sparkers as backups. Those goodies do indeed fit nicely into an Altoids tin.

Somehow I am not surprised that a small candy tin, designed for use and then discard, is not the perfect bulletproof container for long term storage of vital materials.

That's a very sexy job Izzy. How did it hold up to testing?

Did you find condensation would build up on the inside of that thing with direct sunlight? I found the clear Pelican case would, but not the black.

As well, I have been meaning to ask someone



Why do so many of you guys add this to posts? I mean I kinda know why, but is it always necessary?

I kind of got away from hard PSK cases after a horse used me for a lawn dart.. and I had a perfect Altoids shaped bruse for weeks.

I really love these products:
http://usstore.aquapac.net/explore-produ...ase-uss348.html

In a pocket, on a belt, with a neck lanyard. Never had a leak or puncture (though anything I put inside it has sharp edges padded. I know it keeps contents dry after submersion: a whitewater raft tried to drown me once, and a trout stream suddenly grew a hole just where I was walking. In both situation I was in and under the water for a while. And everything stayed dry. Around water I wear this around my neck but UNDER a t-shirt: one time it was on my belt and hung me up while trying to get back in a raft.

The only thing inside which could be broken (and might argue for a hard case) is a compass... which is in its own hard case.
I put everything in a lightweight plastic bag inside the Aquapac so I can use the Aquapac as a water carrier if needed.

I think people are exaggerating and over reacting.

I took an empty altoid tin, wrapped electrical tape once around the seam, and dunked it in a bucket of water for close to an hour, and as you can see there isn't much water intrusion at all. If I wrap it a few more times I'd venture to say there wouldn't be any.

So while taking an altoid tin with your diving wouldn't be the best idea, just splashing or raining will be perfectly fine.

jzmtl - I admit, It may have been that I was using the wrong type of tape for the job. I have moved on to other projects now so to speak, but the electrical tape may have been the key.

Could also be the fact I was moving around so much the can could have bent, twisted, shifted or something. Placing a can in a bucket of water isn't really the same kind of test as getting in and out of a kayak for two days either. Throw the tin in a vest and do some real world stuff to compare with your bucket test and see if the results are the same.

Even a slight ingress was unacceptable to me. Something is either waterproof or it isn't. Even a drop of water could be a problem if left sitting there unnoticed for too long.



How exactly? Please explain

I'm sorry if the bucket isn't real world enough for you, but I'm not motivated enough to do a well planned experiment for an internet argument.

But frankly if you go kayaking with the bare tin which is never meant to be water resistant much less proof in your pocket, you really should rethink your common sense, at least put it in a small freezer bag for instance.




Go back and read your own title and 1st post?

I guess I see your point.

Was a bit of a rant there.

Wow, we certainly have a different idea of "perfectly fine". Maybe a foot deep for an hour and it's got that much water in it? Betcha the cheapest zip-lock baggie wouldn't have that much moisture in it... Now, assuming we had our PSK goods in that tin: what would they be like the next time we opened the tin? Remember that this is a PSK, not a container for daily-use items. Could be a month, could be a few years, really no usual need to open except to upgrade/add. I guess the rule is to open a dunked Altoids PSK.

Just saying. I agree people may be over-reacting a bit. Cheap and handy vs "expensive" and built to do the required job. I used to use pipe tobacco tins and they sealed VERY tightly as found, you needed a coin to open them. Typically a bit of a gasket on the lid too.

Okay, I vote this for "best ETS zinger of the year."

If you had read my entire post instead of picking one sentence out of context you would have seen my point is just one wrap with tape makes it relatively water resistant in submersion scenario, do it a few times carefully it will be perfectly fine if it gets splashed on, which is much less stringent on watertightness requirement.

And if kept going you would also have seen me advocating put it in a freezer bag if water encounter is expected.

I think it is safe to say that Altoid tins can be recycled for further use as handy containers (thereby saving the planet - reducing use of landfills and conserving metal). They serve quite well for that purpose, although some things don't fit well into them. They are a useful component in a thoughtful EDC scheme that will be useful in a lot of tough situations.

They aren't waterproof, per se. If you need to waterproof items, you will have to modify them carefully or go to something else.

Speaking of waterproofing, back in the days when I was scuba diving off the Channel Islands (California) regularly, I played around with the notion of carrying some sort of minimal survival kit that would serve if I ever wound up on an island beach (We almost always dove off of vessels). Dives were routinely down to 60-70 feet and sometimes as deep as 120'. Never came up with a good solution. Any ideas??

Treeseeker, DS came across one of those at the store the other day, and he recognized it's potential as a survival kit container and wanted to test it out (usual disclaimers apply). Unfortunately, we haven't had an opportunity to test it or any of the others I've mentioned, what with school having started back, and football, and scouts, and getting the house ready for DS's birthday sleepover this weekend. All our schedules are crammed pretty tight atm.

On a somewhat related note, it looks like our choice of survival kit container (or the lack thereof) is just like any other piece of survival gear. There's lots of different options available, each with it's own unique capabilities and shortfalls. And just like any other piece of survival gear, each of us will test and evaluate them and pick the one best suited for our own individual needs based on our personal experiences and where our adventures take us.

That's a really neat kit, Izzy. Thank you for sharing the image. I believe that's the way to go with the PSK.

I'm using these in my BOB and Car kit. Tested it in salt water several times swimming and snorkeling. Works very well and is in perfect shape still after about 7 years of infrequent repacking.

I have these too (have repacked the DR PSK with one). They are holding water pretty well even when snorkeling down to 30 feet, however the plastic is probably not UV resistant (or perhaps it's just deteriorating quickly). The seams on oldest of mine became brittle and developed cracks after just a year or so while simply sitting in the pocket of my GHB.

Did you noticed the automatic air purging valve on the side of this box? It's there to compensate for the air pressure change as your altitude is changing. So if for example you are traversing a steep downgrade of a river and found yourself in the water while continuing to descend rapidly, it will suck water in automatically as the air pressure outside is rising.

There are plenty of dedicated containers available for scuba divers. If improvising, I would get a rigid metal screw top capsule, wrap it with a piece of innertube (to soften the capsule's edges) and put it into an abovementioned aquapac bag releasing as much air as possible. (I think a thick freezer bag will do OK too if you wrap it tight at the closure in a similar way, securing with rubber band from unfolding). The capsule will prevent its content from crushing under pressure, the bag - will waterproof it creating the double seal. Even though the aquapac bag may be rated for 30 ft only, I don't see why it would leak at 150 ft deep, provided the capsule can't puncture it. At least I had my point and shoot camera in such a bag (rated for 30 feet) at 80 feet deep without a problem (the cmera stopped working as all of the buttons were jammed under the pressure, but no leaking or bag damage noticed).

All the complexity (and price) of typical underwater containers is coming from the easy frequent opening and closing requirement. The PSK is a single use item. One can consider a permanent gluing/caulking of the seam/thread of a rigid enough container. Just break it in an emergency.

Agreed - around water -- or even everyday -- a plastic container is often better. I'm experimenting with "lock lock" tupperware style boxes.