Popped the question on a compound

I've actually had a conversation with some of my family about finding some discrete acreage outside of town to move to as a primary residence or 'cabin'. It would be enough for my family of 4 & my two parents if we stayed there long term. So the term 'compound' has been used, though not in any serious doomsday reasoning, just to denote that it would initially or eventually encompass more than one building, a primary residence for 4+, a secondary residence for 2+ and a large work shed and some out housing for components.

My primary considerations are at least 5 acres but prefer 10+, away from the road but not a hardship to get to town, a well for water, neighbors out of sight, would prefer grid hook up for power and sewer but able to run most of the utilities off natural gas, propane, solar and generator, basically not totally dependent on the grid if I can get around it. I'd like some of the acreage to be just trees for a many reasons one being a source of heat and fuel. A creek would be icing on the cake.

Its almost a given that DW will want some housing structure in place at point of sale, which is why I am looking at a current ranch or residence instead of starting from scratch. Fine by me it lessens the sting of staying there for weekends or weeks but would take to remodeling the house for low voltage lighting and gas utilities to keep grid energy use low. Set up solar power for the buildings and upgrade and create back up systems for the well in case the grid power goes out from storms and such. In my greatest dream, we'd have a several hundred gallon propane tank and modest sized tank for gas or diesel for genny's and equipment.

Next if not already there, a secondary residence for my folks or guests. Then a large work shed to accommodate my dads excessive amount of power tools, storage, a small area for my workout equipment and of course a general work area. In my mind this shed is between 750-1000 square feet with hopefully a partial loft above for more space. In my wildest dreams the property would come with a tractor with pulling, digging, moving attachments.

My vision also include the structures arranged in some sort of way that has a central commons area in the middle for a hanging out, a fire pit, BBQ, bench seating. A way to be out of the houses, comfortable and not worried about weeds, snakes, scorpions and all that stuff that creeps most people out in my neck of the country.

If we were able to actually live there full time, we would increase our modest square foot backyard garden to something much more substantive with possibly even a small greenhouse. A chicken coop, a goat, rabbits, would be great.

This all probably sounds crazy to some, sounds like a current home to others. It's in between for my family. My mom & DW both grew up on working farms/ranches so have always retained the working knowledge and principals. I grew up visiting ranches and farms, hunting and fishing, taking care of wild animals based on my fathers line of work. I would say I've become somewhat 'city-fied' and 'suburban-ized' but that means I have adapted to different surroundings from what I once was. Other than my current house and convenience of suburbia my family is not dependent on living in the city. If you think about it, once you are locked into whatever dwelling you live in right now, if you have the ability to watch some tv and get high speed internet, does it matter if your neighbor is the next door in the hallway or a quarter mile away? I guess it doesn't for us.

If this just becomes a dead end and all I am left with is bookmarks and blueprints for a dream that never comes true, so be it, the education to flesh out my vision will not be time wasted. And if ended up becoming a much smaller property with a getaway cabin on it with the potential of being more over several years, that would be fine as well. I/we would still be looking for the same considerations for privacy, power and water.

I don't think I would have the courage to even consider this if I didn't have the years of resources and threads I've read here on ETS (and other places), of people showing me this stuff can be done. I often don't understand the nuts and bolts of some conversations, like on solar power set ups and inverters and power set ups, but I try the best I can. This will be a long, slow process but just thought I'd write it down to get it off my chest. Thanks for taking the time to read.

Your dream is very similar to my own in many respects.

If there's a creek, don't forget hydro as a source of power. If there's wind, don't forget that. Ideally you'd have two sources in case there were problems with one.

Hi,

Ditto for me. My plans are altered somewhat at present, but the basic idea is the same. A safe home in the country for my family. Primary, with as much off-grid as possible with a large garden and some stock animals. Even the ex-wife is again on board with it.

And yes, I'm shy of the word "compound" also. We prefer homestead or station (like Martin's Station on the old Kentucky frontier). It doesn't need to be a retreat or anything like that. Someplace your family can ride out grid hiccups in relative comfort and with minimal interruption.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to converse with you off board. Just PM me.

dreams can come true.

having lived off-the-grid in a handbuilt solar-powered cabin in some pretty remote mountains for 25 yrs, i suggest always remembering that "less is more". when thinking about getaway places, the simpler the better.

do as much as possible yourself, learn every aspect of what you're doing, knowing you can fix it when needed, know how it all works together: water systems, energy systems, communications, construction, sewage, livestock, et al.

folks often try to turn their getaways into city-like places and in doing so, they bring all the hassles, upkeep, repairs, complications and costs with them. they find they can no longer keep up with what needs doing. and keep in mind that when living "out" its usually harder to find "experts" to do satisfactory work for you, even if you're well-to-do and can throw money at it.

i tell interested folks with the same desires as you to stop thinking in terms of what "stuff" they want (all the different energy systems running endless numbers of household appliances, or the endless number of shops loaded with which tools they envision needing...), and instead to think about how little they actually need and what they can do for themselves. that way they might actually be able to do it, and then can keep it all running smoothly as well.

besides, living "bigger and better" just means less time to enjoy why you're living there to begin with.

just my 2 cents...

I agree completely. The last year of my life was very basic and I had it force-fed that what I need is far less than what I want. When you try to incorporate satellite TV, iPads and every nifty gadget and activity then you lose the point.

Then again, I think comms is with us on this.

thanks guys. WileyCoyote, my cousin & her husband lived in a Yurt for many years in the east Cascades with no power except a wood stove and genny. They used an outhouse for years before adding on. And I watched them tackle a reliable and consistent system to draw water from the river about 50 yards away and down slope. It became unfeasible to live there once their DD was born. The 7 mile commute to/fro the parking lot on snowmobiles got a bit much in the winter. So they live in town now.

I get the keep it simple aspect. Simple would be 100% grid as its what I am used to. Hey it works while it works, right? Then I suppose just having a good back up genny ready to power the essentials in an occasional outage, again like a good prepared suburban homeowner would do. I think, think!, that in my vision I can rewire a house to run a lot of things like lights, some occasional summer a/c and electronics off of a 12v system similar to an RV which would be powered normally by solar & grid (yes wind if possible) then totally by solar, propane, and genny if there was no grid power. I think based on what I have read on here, online in other places and talking to friends in the RV electricial fields that it is possible to configure a house during build or much older house on site to run off a set up similar to an RV system.

My shed would be a pretty simple affair, an established barn would be best, but I'm looking at a prefab metal set up or basic wood frame over concrete. My dad is a hobby wood worker and over the last 30 years has more power tools and implements than most good High School wood shops do. He'd never part with them and would appreciate having more space than just half of his current garage to tinker. His experience and tools would help get a lot of the coops, components, fencing and other set ups done cheaply and onsite. I admit that construction is a shortcoming for me.

hey comms, having watched others in action sure helps in the planning.

tying to the grid is dandy, but one does become dependent on it. besides, wouldn't it be great NOT to have to tie to them and pay monthly bills?

given what you're saying, i might suggest not going to a 12V system. we did that for 15 years, but today's inverters and LED lighting is so efficient that going 12V isn't necessary or even desirable. if you carefully pick your items its possible to run the entire household on a 1000 watt PV array and a few deep cycle batteries. that can easily run lights, laptops, printers, wifi, satellite internet and TV dishes, stereo/radios, flatscreen TV, tools, and even a small A/C, if one is careful and conservative.

we have only a small honda generator for those periods of gray days. don't think we run it more that a couple dozen hours each year. gens are noisy, require lots of attention, wear out and are expensive to run. best to save it for running large powertools or in emergencies. i'd prefer not to use it at all.

our yearly delivery of propane runs the on-demand waterheater, cookstove and frig.

we heat only with wood. water is gravity-feed from a spring 250' above the cabin. the property was partly chosen because of this dependable water supply.

get a Backwoods Solar catalog. i found it to be the best and most comprehensive out there. and their customer service can't be beat because they live with what they sell.

we still have outhouses. fact is, we always will, because they are so simple, pleasant and cheap. there's nothing like watching the sunrise from a well located outhouse :-)

when the snows get deep we use horses to get down the mountain to where we park the vehicles in winter (see pix below). and when the horses can no longer get through, we revert to snowshoes. if one perceive things like this as "living a good life" instead of as a hardship, it isn't half as tough as some folks would imagine.

and don't let your "shortcomings" stop you. as a city boy i didn't know anything when i started either. if i could do it, so can you!

one last point, i guess wasn't as clear as i should have been: you said "Simple would be 100% grid". by simple i really meant keeping the systems simple, doing with less, not what is simpler for you to do. in fact, living this lifestyle isn't easy like a renting an all-utilities-all-furnished apartment in the city, its actually lots & lots of time and hard labor, but it is far more satisfying in the end.


my partner, patti, saddling up to go work when the chained-up pickup can no longer get through

Wow, that looks amazing. It's always been a dream of mine to have some land and a small house/cabin. Looks so peaceful.

Much of what you have described matches my cabin, and I say cabin not retreat because I don't like that term. Mine is quite far from a city , a good 2 days on horseback. But after careful thought I've decided that if the SHTF I'll try to ride it out at the ranch. It's better suited and I have 99% of my "stuff" there. Wish I could have ben of help to you.

NICE!

Embrace your dream and proceed boldly!

thanks everyone. I was not expecting such enthusiasm...guess I have spent too much time on another social networking site lately. lol.

Wiley, thank you so much for your feedback. your last post made a lot of sense to me and like I tried to put across in the OP, I know that my dream/vision is someone else's current reality. So I appreciate your input.

I think deep down most of us here would want to have some sort of back up location, weekend getaway, ranch, compound, retreat, cabin, doomsday bunker, cache set up, fallback position away from it all in case a situation arises where we can't stay at home anymore or don't want to. From natural disaster to something more fictional becoming reality.

This is a long term plan, where unless something falls into our lap, then it will be putting things together piecemeal over time. Land first. Educating always. Luckily there is plenty of available land in my area. We've been gardening and getting better at keeping food till harvest, can't wait to tell someone, "everything your eating is from our garden." I'm trying to increase my experiences with mechanical, electrical components. Talk about starting small, I have a gas powered lawn edger that doesn't start that I am working on. Ultimately I want to be at a point where I can understand water pumps and solar energy systems.

comms, you're on the right track. i too learned everything i know by starting small and doing everything i could myself, making endless errors along the way.

anything of value takes a long time to make happen.

for patti and i, it was 15 years of finding the property, paying it off and putting up the smallest of dwellings. it took another 25 years of living on it full-time to work the bugs out.

focus on only what you can accomplish today, but plan for the long term. and in the end, you might just get your wish and build a legacy for your kids, and their kids.

good luck!!!!

Sounds like a fine plan. I offer a few caveats of the IMHO/YMMV/FWIW sort.
Mel Tappan, a widely published survival guns expert, retreated to his rural outpost, in preparation for the coming cataclysm. He passed away in 1988, quite young, apparentlty of congestive heart failure. This is a disease that is and was best managed in a sophisticated hospital setting. He might have survived longer in an urban setting with better access to health care.

I chose to retreat with my young family into 23 acres of heaven in the adirondacks. DW did not tolerate the isolation well, and DD's struggled with the limited resources and coonservative social structure of the rural educational system. There were lots of benefits to being there, but the tradeoffs were substantial. We were much better able to survive teotwawki, but less able to survive the very real struggles of daily life.

I admire the approaches of Susan, Blast and Martin Focazio, who integrate their survival preparations in the context of community and family. This seems to be the wisest of courses.

Good luck with your enterprise.

This was a fun read, and I'll keep checking this one for a while. As for energy, I've heard a great off-grid set-up is a wind & solar system. Imagine a crisp cold winter day with the sun blaring outside, needing sunglasses to be outdoors, and your solar panels cranking the amps into your batteries. Or an overcast dank spring day, fat rain drops pounding your windows, and the wind blowing your turbine keeping the batteries topped off. Or you can just be hooked to the grid and flip a switch.

Here's a link to a blog post from a couple who's lived off the grid for 22 years.

It's somewhere at the headwaters of the Buffalo National River, in the Ozarks -- pretty rugged country. But the road network is good. May be out in the boonies, but I'm sure it's pretty easy to get to.

The website where the blog is posted is the Ozark Natural Science Center, where fifth-grade students spend two days a night learning out door science. ONSC also offers/hosts a variety of classes including an outdoor survival institute.

I think you outline the down side of rural/wilderness living quite well. As a career National Park Service employee (retired) I am familiar with much of what you discuss. Either I have experienced it, or lived and worked with families that have. The negative effects of wilderness living are much more significant for children than for adults.

The better solutions involve situations where you can transition from urban to wilderness with ease. Even then, nothing is perfect. I was rudely shaken awake on San Miguel Island (as raw and screaming a wilderness as one could hope for) and spent a restless day wondering about the situation of my wife and daughter back on the mainland, to say nothing of friends and associates back on the mainland. My daughter grew up with the advantages of participating in a well functioning educational system but also many experiences in the northern Channel Islands helping dear old dad with the chores.

All great points! Wonderful discussion!

My youngest children have lived in both the 'burbs and small country town. They will continue to benefit from formal education and modern socialization. Exposure to the forest/nature is regular and respectful as is their introduction to farming. It increases weekly. My ex- (if we reconcile) already knows that she needs social contact (beyond online networking). We plan on being +/- 30 minutes from town and about 2-3 hours from a city. We expect to have "town jobs". I agree that large amounts of isolation can be quite harmful.

For electricity, I researched options and determined that wind & water were our best choices for our goal locations.

You've all touched on the 'raising kids' and social interaction component. Something I originally wrote into both my previous posts but took out. I could write chapters on my thoughts and meditations of raising my kids in a suburbia setting versus a more rural one...and contradict myself several times. Plus as Nursemike mentioned, its always a good idea to be near top tier medical facilities, especially important with some issues with my DS and taken into account. This is why we are looking to be within an hour of where we live right now.

I have not looked deep into wind power, but many of you are mentioning it. I suppose I have been brainwashed into believing the cost over weighed the benefit. I'll include average daily wind speeds into my land matrix and do some more research on it.