Wally World also carrying Celox!

Posted by: Phaedrus

Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/20/12 08:09 AM

I noticed while I was perusing the camping stuff that WM carries Celox (the 2 g packages) now. They have two different forms, a small FAK with one x 2 g pack and a small box of two x 2 g packs. The price isn't outrageous, about $6.50 IIRC for the 2 pack. I forget the price of the small FAK but it's packaged in a pretty slick little hinged plastic container that looks like it could be repurposed for many different applications.

I've used the 2 g packages and the stuff has worked well for me.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/20/12 12:56 PM

I think the FAK is $10 or $11. What is Celox? Sorry, just a big dumb country boy. Not familiar with it. Thanks/
Posted by: Glock-A-Roo

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/20/12 03:38 PM

You know, for years I have marveled at what Wal-Mart represents, and I mean that in a good way. Lots of people like to rag on Wally World but I ask you, where else in the world can you walk into a retail outlet located in places like Podunkville and buy:

- guns
- ammo
- GPS technology
- night vision monoculars
- laser rangefinders
- Celox products
- plus diapers, Metamucil, and Beyonce's latest CD

I love the USA!

BTW Izzy, I like your new blog format. "All YouTube videos all the time" was getting old.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/20/12 04:00 PM

Thanks Izzy. You mean Blood Stopper and Quick Clot. Duh. I knew when i hit my head in the barn something wasn't right. The powder works well but the patches are faster and less messy. Strange no allergies have been found, my ex could just look at shrimp in a cook book and would swell up and get hives. Lol. Thanks again. And call me Snake. Everyone else does.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/20/12 04:24 PM

An excellent blood stopper can be made of dried and powdered horse tail which you can find growing along ditches in the southwest. Instant clotting on even a gusher. And evening of primrose found in the same place makes a cough syrup which rivals codiene based ones for effectiveness.
Posted by: MDinana

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/20/12 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
I did a blog post about this several days ago.

http://thefloridasteampunker.blogspot.com/2012/03/wal-mart-selling-quick-seal-outdoor.html

Snake_Doctor, Celox is one of the name brands for a clotting agent used in the military and civilian industries to stop blood loss. Celox specifically is made from a strimp by-product, but no known allergies have been found. I'm surprised you're not familiar with it. Celox is one of the brands that the Marines and a few other military branches and foreign militaries use.

Actually, the DoD has moved to combat gauze, an impregnated Kerlix-type of bandage. The granules have several issues in the military setting (probably not the civilian as much)
- getting the granules to the site of blood loss is difficult the deeper you go. Hard to keep "gravel" on the end of a gushing hose, you know?
- the granules have been known to migrate and cause embolisms down the road.

I'm actually taking a course this week on trauma care; I'll see if I can add anything more to this.
Posted by: Glock-A-Roo

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 04:07 AM

Originally Posted By: MDinana
Actually, the DoD has moved to combat gauze, an impregnated Kerlix-type of bandage. The granules have several issues in the military setting (probably not the civilian as much)


Isn't this a conflation of various pieces of true, yet not exactly related, data?

It is accurate that DoD has standardized on Combat Gauze. However it was WoundStat, not Celox, that was shown to cause problems with emboli. Celox has performed very well in both testing and real applications; I am aware of no blemishes on its record.

I carry Combat Gauze myself but I would not turn down Celox if it was an option.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 04:35 AM

Originally Posted By: MDinana

Actually, the DoD has moved to combat gauze, an impregnated Kerlix-type of bandage. The granules have several issues in the military setting (probably not the civilian as much)
- getting the granules to the site of blood loss is difficult the deeper you go. Hard to keep "gravel" on the end of a gushing hose, you know?
- the granules have been known to migrate and cause embolisms down the road.


Specifically, it was WoundStat that was causing secondary emboli not Celox. I have heard of no cases of Celox having this issues, it is probably the safety of all the hemostatics available. The biggest issue with loose granules of any kind is that the tend to end up anywhere except the wound (and this is the primary reason CoTCCC recommends only gauze based hemostatics). Hemostatic gauze is easier to apply and keep in the wound.

From research and personal experience using multiple hemostatic agents, I have Celox of some form in all my IFAKs (mostly gauze and the new Z-fold.).

I have attached below two protocols for bleeding control. Basically, the best practice is to use hemostatics when direct pressure doesn't work and a tourniquet can't be used (or is ineffective).

(note: the "no" beneath "massive uncontroled bleeding" should be a "yes")

Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 05:58 AM

Celox is indeed very safe. I use the granules but also bandages and gauze.
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 12:53 PM

I carry Celox-A specifically for penetrating trauma where bleeding cannot be controlled via direct pressure or a tourniquet.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 12:55 PM

DOD was using the sponge, which was packaged in a thin, flat package, for individual first aid kits. I have been issued Celox and a different brand (maybe same company but different packaging). You have to be sure that you remove as much blood and liquid from the site before you place it or it will form a nice barrier over the wound without stopping the bleeding. Just a quick swipe with one hand to wipe off the blood and quickly place the sponge over the wound, preferably right against the bleeder. It is not a magic fix, but I have seen it stop arterial bleeding before.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 01:00 PM

As an old gaffer who got his training and experience in the pre-Celox era, I find this a most informative thread. Maye it's time to scrape away some of the rust. Keep talking...
Posted by: ILBob

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 02:02 PM

Is this the stuff you are talking about (see 2nd picture in this post)?

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/2012/03/walmart-shopping-trip-today.html

It appeared recently in the sporting goods section at my Walmart.
Posted by: Outdoor_Quest

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 05:43 PM

This is a great post.

I am starting to see some folks coming out against clotting agents.

What's up with that. Do they have a valid issue?

Izzy, I'll be checking your blog.

Blake

www.outdoorquest.blogspot.com
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 06:41 PM

There is no reason to not use hemostatics, especially the hemostatic gauze products. As I stated in my previous post, it was a single product "WoundStat" that was causing secondary emboli NOT Celox or QuickClot (although QuickClot has had other issues that have been remedied).

Like Chaosmagnet said, Celox-A is packaged in a syringe designed to be injected into penetrating trauma when pressure and tourniquets are ineffective... It works and there have been no instances of secondary emboli.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 07:05 PM

Quote:
The Celox granule packets would be used for small lacerations and not life threatening deep wounds, of course.


Not sure I agree with this approach. If a wound is truly life threatening and the standard methods of hemmorage control (direct pressure, elevation, tourniquets, etc.) are not working, why not use the Celox. If you choose not to use the product based upon the admonishment to “do no harm” and the patient dies, you are not fully utilizing the resources available. The use of Celox in life threatening situations is exactly why the product was created.

Pete
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 07:38 PM

Yes, you do not want it in your eyes, it clots. No permanent damage, you just can't see for a while. You also do not use the clotting sponge by itself. You still need to put a pressure bandage over the top, it makes the pressure bandage much more successful. If you have bleeding that bad, seek professional medical attention as soon as possible, it is not a permanent solution. When you remove the clotting sponge it will likely begin to bleed again. We used them in conjunction with a tourniquet and a pressure bandage, it just increases the chances of success. In fact, the tourniquet is the first thing I am going to slap on if the bleeding is that bad, then the clotting sponge, and then cover it with a pressure bandage. It is not something I am going to use unless it is a life threatening or very dangerous situation. Find some of the new research on tourniquets, they are not a dangerous as used to be taught.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 08:58 PM

Now that I have a bit more time to type, let me elaborate on a few points.

Hemostaics have been around for a long time, but there is a realitivly short history of there use in the "field" by military and civilian EMS propviders and an even shorter history of there use by laypersons in first aid. However, because of the wars in Iraq, Afganistan and other theaters huge amounts of data have been recorded during that short history allowing quick changes in products and protocols. The United States and the United Kingdom have done a significant amount of research on trauma patient managment during these past 11 years of combat and that research has changed how we treat trauma patients from first contact in the field to the rehab facility post-hospitalization. Permissive hypotension, tourniquets and significant changes for traumatic brain injury patiets join the use of Hemostatics as new ideas that affect the EMS and First Aid relm of trauma patient care. Hemostatics is the most insignificant of that list.

Of all the changes in pre-hospital trauma patient care, hemostatics and tourniquets are uniquely product driven. Hundreds of new tourniquets and dozens of new hemostatics have hit the market since 2003, not all of them were good.  Today there are basically two Hemostatics still on the civilian market, Celox and QuickClot (there are a few others, but these are the common products). While Celox is offered in a number of forms, from loose granule to rolled gauze, QuickClot is only avalibe to civilians in gauze sponges or rolled gauze (although granules are still avalible for "professional" use). 

QuickClot recieved a bad reputation early on due to the original formula causing and exothermic (creating a lot of heat) reaction on contact with fluids. Imagine getting a substance like that in your eye, as a number of Soilders, Marines, Sailors and Airmen did. It was also noted to cause burns to some patients, and was ineffective at low tempatures. Quickclot changed their formula and released the Combat Gauze to remedy this and there have been no reports of QuickClot being anything but safe and effective since these changes.  

The product that has given Hemostatic's reputation the biggest black eye is WoundStat. At one time, WoundStat was the perfered hemostatic (granules) product approved for use by CoTCCC (Commity on Trauma Combat Casulty Care). WoundStat didn't cause the exothermic reaction that QuickClot caused, so it was seen as an improvement.  However, overtime it was noticed that patients who received WoundStat were developing secondary emboli. Initially, this was thought to be do to the granules  migrating from the wound site. Researched reviled what was actually happening was Woundstat caused damage to the blood vessels at the wound site which in turn caused clots and plagues to break free and cause the emboli after WoundStat was used. There are ALOT of anecdotal information about Hemostatic granules being "sucked" into neck wounds and other large vessel bleeds, but nothing that can be verified.

The issues with early QuickClot and WoundStat are what have fueled the "Hemostatics are Unsafe" idea that has become so prevalent on the internet and in the EMS community. While WoundStat is absolutely unsafe and any remaining stock should be trashed, the QuickClot on the market today is completely safe and effective. Sadly a lot of the confusion is caused by under qualified instructors repeating myths and rhetoric. 

So if you have extra money to invest in first aid supplies, hemostatics are a good investment if you already have tourniquets in your kits. Tourniquets are an other topic all together, but simply put they work and are safe. If you don't have some, I highly recommend either CAT, SOF-T or McMillian mechanical tourniquets or Tk4 elastic tourniquets. For hemostatics, my first recommendation is Celox Gauze (roller). This recommendation is based on there being no documented cases of negative side effects with the use of Celox and witnessing it work. I recommend the gauze for three reasons; it is easier to keep in a wound, adds to the packing of the wounds and powders tend to go flying when excitedly opened by an inexperienced person. I would also have no problem with QuickClot gauze in my kit or being used on me... I just prefer Celox. 

As for the use of hemostatics in bleeding control, they should be the last resort in most cases. If you look at the protocols that I posted above, you will see that direct pressure is still the primary method of bleeding control and "consider" hemostatics comes farther down the list. So, from a practical point of view to me that means I am going to only use hemostatics when I don't believe that pressure, tourniquets and packing the wound will be effective. I have never had to use both a tourniquet and hemostatics on the same wound (not to say that there haven't ever been patients that have required both). For most people, the hemostatics in their kits will need to be replaced due to expiration not use.
Posted by: Arney

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/21/12 11:09 PM

Nice summary, Alan.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Wally World also carrying Celox! - 03/22/12 12:47 AM

Check your military surplus store in military towns, like here at Ft. Bragg, and you can find the CAT and SOF-T tourniquets. I have been able to find current, unopened trauma kits with the tourniquets for $10-20.