Cart before the horse?

This may seem like a trivial question, but when building a PSK do you choose the items first or the container? The reason I ask is that no matter what activity I'm packing for (eg backpacking or camping trip, trip out of town, vacation, etc) I invariably stuff my pack/luggage completely full! The same applies to my FAKs & PSKs. Whatever pack I use will be filled to capacity. Often I'll toss in some extra items because, hey- I've got room!

It might seem pretty humorous to you folks, but to me it's something of a revelation: maybe I should decide what items I feel I need for the estimated level or risk, then choose a pack to accomodate said stuff. Brilliant or comically obvious?

Easy mistake to make.

I would always think about what you need and then decide how to carry it, with one important caveat - you WILL need to carry it!

It is easy to come up with a huge list of stuff that would be useful - but to me a PSK needs to fit in a pocket if I want to be sure to have it

I personally started with the prebuilt Ritter PSK and then worked my way to customizing. I think While having a starting point at size helped I originally downsized to a container I saw and then upsized to its identical big brother.

Personally Id start with a altoids tin size right off the bat. Its not to big not to small and its very common to obtain and very commonly used for these reasons.

After you get use to it Decide for yourself wether you need to upsize, Downsize, Change shape, Or Even change materials.

Bringing up a great point is literally today I saw a small pill case for 1$ at walgreens and bought it without a huge idea on what to put on it. My final choice was a fishing kit as i do not have a tiny Fishing kit yet.

One Idea is to purchase the major Important items OR Items that You may consider being the largest items first. This way you have a starting point for size to consider. Three great items for this idea is the Fox 40 Whistle the Ritter Mk5 and the spark lite.

This will set the tone for your PSK's size while adding some good solid basics to it right off the bat.

As a Quick note, I am a Container Junkie silly as it may sound. I often Buy containers just for the sake of having them around and most of the time I will think of a Need and instantly go through what containers I own and 90% of the time I will have the perfect container that just works like it was made to be.

I'm a container junkie, and especially a pouch/pack nerd! Since I'm not rich, I really fetishize Maxpedition stuff. If I had more money I'd probably be drooling over Kifaru and Mystery Ranch gear but Maxpedition is about the top of my budget for EDC and misc stuff.

Sometimes the container suggests itself. For instance, one of my most carried PSKs rides in my Maxpedition 12 x 5 water bottle carrier. I always carry water anyways, so I've added as many things as I can to the carrier. The result adds little weight compared to a SS bottle with 40 oz of water, yet although it's not a lot of gear it probably would be enough to tip the scales in my favor if an outing turned against me.

An Altoids tin is the classic case of chosing the container first- and of course, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. So long as one has decided that's the maximum space you can allot and chose the best gear you can given that space limitation, the Altoids kit can be useful.

My own classic case of choosing the container first, aside for the previously mentioned bottle kit, is the lumbar pack. As a day pack I find them pretty comfortable vs a regular backpack, especially when it's hot. I will add PSK items that work with the stuff I'm already carrying (eg water, snacks, etc). Of course, this has to be guided by a disciplined analysis of what you might need vs what would be cool to have.

Again, it's not a revolutionary idea or anything. I'm just trying to move away from "how much crap can I fit in this thing" to "what do I really need to carry?"

Same here Although with my new EDC bag Im constantly added to it sadly. Its difficult to argue that 1oz when it does effect the weight of 10 pounds but when you keep saying that now your at 15 pounds then 20 pounds so on so forth.

Pretty soon there will be a formal medical description of ETS syndrome - the incessant and continual need to accumulate containers, mostly small pocket size, and stuff them full. I am a victim, and you guys are to blame!

I consider how I am traveling and how I can carry it, then choose the components, then the container. I have kits for traveling by commercial air, vehicle and foot.

I do have (as Hikermor describes) a plethora of containers to choose from.

I have the same problem. I won't list the items in my out of town bag because I don't want to be scolded. lol. Again. But it's packed heavy and I feel I can handle virtually any situation I encounter. My FAK and PSK are jammed tight for that same reason: Hey I can fit more in here if REALLY try. Problem is the mess you make trying to recover something from the most carefully packed kit. Then repacking it in the field. Especially with an injury.

Sound advice Frisket. I too am a container junkie, especially tins. I have dozens of altoids tins I have bought and have simply the mints. Still unable to find the large altoids tin anywhere, Or an old aspirin tin. Small waterproof containers fascinate me.

Hangs head. I'm sorry Hiker. Send me all your containers. Get that monkey off your back.http://forums.equipped.org/images/icons/default/grin.gif

Care to share your list of your air travel PSK?

i will not take credit for the following for i do not remember where i first read it, but when you pack you need to remember to pack some room. seems simple enough, and it works for me.

I used to like be that, then suddenly I despised having everything in small PSK type tins and just started keeping the essentials in my pockets. Now I don't know how I ever liked the tin/container thing to begin with.

I guess it was kinda like a small hobby. I would spend hours fitting everything in a tin JUUUUUST right. Then dump it all out and take pictures of each layer so I wouldn't forget what was in the dammed thing, Then I would try it in a different way, or in a differernt tin,(insert hysterical laughter) then make another list because I forgot something, Then seal it with tape, then un-seal it because I forgot I could tape a sewing needle to the inside of the lid. I should have realised from an early stage that I would never get it right. It was just too dammed fun to keep trying.

In real world use however....Oh boy. I found it such and impractical pain in the a** that I just stopped doing it. Cold,wet and tired and trying to make everything fit back inside the tin after taking something out of it just wasn't as fun as it was at my work bench. Crap falling out, snow and rain getting inside, leaves, bending lids, Sigh........

As much as I hate PSKs just talking about it makes me want to try another one.

Year one of ets exposure: altoid tin psk.
Year two: 2 altoid tin, psk and fak.
Year three: add third tin for fire starter kit
Year four: pants fall to ground due to psk pocket carry: acquire vest.
Year five: vest proves to be repellent to opposite gender. abandon in favor of rucksack. Psk now weighs sixteen pounds.
Year six: rucksack weight affects equilibrium, resulting in fall from bar stool; abandon ruck for wheeled carry on bag.
Year seven: exploring trailer hitch arrangements to attach second carry-on bag.
Year eight: donate psk collection to boy scout troop, acquire DRPSK.

I travel for a living, and years ago when I first started out, I would pack my overnight duffle bag so full that you could hear the seams creaking, and an additional piece of paper would have caused catastrophic bag failure.

Now, with 20 years of experience and the wisdom that goes with it, I have analyzed each piece of clothing, all of my supplies and took out everything that is not absolutely essential to life itself.

Now I can still hear the seams creaking and an additional piece of paper will cause catastrophic bag failure....good luck my friend.

You fell off a BAR STOOL because of a ruck. HA ha!! wish I could say that was my reason for falling from one.

Originally I started with a pre-made PSK and then started replacing components with higher quality items, and looking at various other possible ways to carry items as I went along.

Then once theory meets practice, you'll be able to better judge what needs to stay and what can go.

Figure out what exactly you want the PSK to do (stand alone or EDC supplement only?), decide what essentials you'll need, then try out a couple different carry methods until you find something you're happy with

Yep, my EDC changes daily, but my PSK jar is constant. I use a small instant coffee jar and have a whetstone, P-51, micro Mag-lite, Doan's bar, lighter and hair ties. At the very least, I have a Leatherman, SAK, and jar on me.

My EDC backpack varies in content.

I really like the water bottle carrier idea! Thanks!

Maybe a pack mule?

I have sort of gravitated to a smallish fanny pack for the shortish hikes I usually take. That limits what I can cart around with me. But it is quite adequate for what I do.

It might not be adequate for overnight trips or longer hiking excursions or excursions in more remote areas.

I personally think you have to start out with a maximum weight and/or size you are willing to carry.

I started out with a small backpack with a 2 liter hydration bladder and went to the fanny pack with two 1 liter plastic water bottles.

Ah, gear addiction...such a sad thing!

I guess that depends on what is more important to you, the size or type of the container or the items that you need to have with you.....

I would decide what the PSK will need to do for you and where as well as how you will be carrying it. That will tell you minimum requirements as far as items and it will also tell you maximum size and perhaps the style, shape and qualities of your container.

My thoughts are that a PSK has essentials (knife, signalling, fire, compass, medical and perhaps fishing items) and can be thrown in a big pocket. Anything else goes into my BOB and is easily separated from my PSK or thrown in a pocket if need be.

In my younger years, I was all about go big or go home. Recently it seems that I've crossed some invisable threshold into a new world, and I'm trying to lighten and shrink the load.

So, to answer your question from my new middle aged perspective, I usually do a little of both. Right now, for example, I'm thinking about creating a new kit of urban/subburban outtings. I've got a list of stuff I want to carry, and am going to find a bag that it will all fit in. My goal is to keep it small so that it doesn't become my traditional unwieldly overkill.

That said, I have no doubt that no matter bag I ulitmately choose, I'll fill the nooks and crannies in it in no time. Hopefully I'll keep my head this time though, and leave room for the treasures my son usually finds along the way. My goal this time is for "Mom, can you carry this for me please?" not to mean I have to get a bigger bag.

my ditch kit/over board kit has to fit in the pocket of my life jacket so it was pick a container that i could cook in and go from there.

This raises a question I was going to start a thread on. I'm looking for a flotation vest with multiple outer pockets, 2-3 external straps and leg straps. In tactical black preferably. Any ideas?

Something like this?:

LONDON-BRIDGE-TRADING-CO-TYPE-V-TATICAL-FLOTATION-VEST

Pete

Snake..i would check out the PFD's used by the Kayak gang.they go over in white water all the time and would want leg straps.the sea kayakers have vests with big pockets so you might look at their sites to see what they use..
the tac vest is a bit "over board"
i just use a PFD from LL Bean with big pockets,

I actually pick the container first.
Then adjust the items accordingly.
Like you - I find otherwise that i will fill anything to the brim.
I prefer the "light and fast" approach to life.

Pete2

Omg thank you so much for helping me discover that, Im really loving the Range idiot song friggen awesome!

Yeah, he has several really funny songs.

For instance I just found another container to consider my kit in.

http://www.amazon.com/Trangia-Aluminum-Mess-Tin/dp/B004HCCHF8

Now the question is, Do I get rid of My Tin and my Tupperware and add it all into just this tin, Or keep my kit modular? If I remove my tupperware portion then I no longer have a "small" "pocketable" item to take out and use on its own.

Hmmm...I'm a bit leery of those tins. They might have a gasket but aluminum deforms/dents so easily. It might not stay watertight and may not want to go back together. I'm actually a fan of good quality plastic- it's stronger, very light and somewhat self healing.

You have to be careful with either plastic or aluminum. I used a similar aluminum locking box successfully for years; it even worked after it dented. A rigid plastic container cracked with only modest use, while a more flexible plastic sandwich box is still useful a couple of decades later, after a lot of use.. The great thing about aluminum is the ability to heat water over a flame, something not possible with plastic, unless you use a stone boiling technique. I wonder, has anyone tried to heat water in a plastic container using hot rocks?

Yeah, it's a tradeoff, hikermor. I really like Sistema stuff. It has a very good O-ring seal and is hard enough to hold its shape but soft enough to take some knocks. I've also had good luck with Pelican & Otterbox cases.

I'm moving towards the idea that the outer box will just prevent crushing. The contents will be sealed if they need to be waterproofed.

Teehee...that's me and my $1000 vacuum sealer!