The Eagle has landed! New Chamber Vac sealer!

WOOT! After researching and taking notes for six months I finally pulled the trigger on a new vacuum sealer. And NOOOOOO, it ain't no foodsaver! As you all probably know I'm a chef by trade and an all-around kitchen geek. Clamp style sealers are very inexpensive and do a good job on many things but don't work so well to seal liquids. And since I do a lot of sous vide cooking I like to be able to cook in a liquid. This requires a chamber vacuum sealer.

Enter the VacMaster VP215! It's a chamber vac with a rotary oil pump. It pulls almost 30" of vacuum! Here's a few pics!






Here's one of the main reasons I bought it over other similar machines: The ability to seal retort pouches!




You may think you don't know what a "retort pouch" is, but you may have one in your pantry right now. They're the pouches you buy your tuna in. They were developed for the military for MREs.

With this machine I can now easily seal liquids like chili, marinara sauce, gravy, soup, etc. And the retort pouches will let me can stuff in "flexible cans" that are just like a Ball Jar but not breakable.

Now, that might be interesting to you here's the REAL DEAL reason to have this for survival stuff:






This is a couple shots of the first retort pouches I sealed- filled with fire gear! Again, these are very, very thick pouches constructed with three layers, the middle being made of mylar. These don't break, rupture or leak easily. The VP215 has a double-wire seal bar, creating two seals to ensure the integrity of the pouch.

Two the pouches I sealed contain four Weber grill lighter tables each. Those of us who've used the Weber and WetFire products have concluded that if they're not identical then at least the difference isn't worth talking about. One fatal flaw of both products is that exposure to air kills them quickly (between 1 week and 1 month, depending on conditions). The flimsy packaging of WetFire can be a real problem if you rely on it.

But a retort pouch isn't at all flimsy. They were designed to keep food edible for years in every conceivable climate and situation. I will track these to verify but you've gotta see them to believe them! They're very thick and really tough.

The bonus- my mom has been canning since she was a little girl, almost 60 years. I can use a pressure canner to make my own homemade MREs, shelf stable but with recognizable food in them! I can control the sodium and additives, creating what I want to eat...did I mention I'm a chef and science geek?

Retort pouches are available with capacities from 2 oz to 16 oz, so you have a lot of options for using them.

I'll keep you all posted as I explore the possibilities of this machine.

Anyhoo, just though you guys might dig this. It was expensive, almost a $1,000 USD, but well worth it to me.

Phaedrus, thanks for sharing - and very interesting indeed. Let me plant a bug; now that you have made the capital investment, could you seal up some of my stuff, and perhaps that of other forum members, for a small fee?

Nice! (She says drooling just a little bit.)

:-)

This forum has been instrumental to my wilderness/survival education to a degree that's hard to express. So many forums are "survivalist", not "survival". I'm so weary of the birther threads and politics. ETS is my haven! The debt I owe specifically to guys like you, Hikermor, (among others) is immeasurable. To attempt to partially pay it forward I will gladly seal up anything you folks would like, for just the costs of postage (and bags if we're talking retort pouches). The machine is new to me to I'm fine tuning things a bit but frankly I'm blown away. This is a commercial product (at a commercial price!) and I'm loving it.

I've had some dealings with a few members here who will vouch for me. I won't jack your stuff!

I will say I'm still working out the technical details. It took a few bags to dial in the right sealing/cooling time/temp for retorts. And of course, I haven't had time yet to torture test them. To be fair I will try to tamp down my enthusiasm until I can verify that they work well. Of course, I would love to use you folks as Beta testers! I've long believed that the best way to see if your ideas are valid or if you're seduced by your own biases it to have others test your stuff. Finn has been kind enough to subject a couple of my "science projects" to the real world. His feedback has been invaluable (shout out, buddy! Thanks!).

Retort pouches cost a bit more. Just Google them. They're not "efficient", space wise, because they're very thick- and this makes them rigid. They hold less than a thinner bag would. Of course, this is also the reason we use them! Three layers and almost 6 mils thick, they have a good track record for reliability.

And again, help me test it! I'd love to put some stuff "out in the wild"! If the way I pack something doesn't cut the mustard I'd rather hear it from five of you than learn it when the chips are down.

I'd also love suggestions from you folks with more experience than I have. Which things should have oxygen absorbers? How many strikers for matches? What (aside from lighters) shouldn't you apply vacuum to?

So to make a long post a little bit longer ( ) the answer is yes.

BTW, this will also seal pure Mylar bags. I know nothing about them, though. Should I be researching them? Do you folks use them?

Okay, I'm rambling now but I wanted to mention that just to try out various stuff I sealed most of the Fire Kit components in their own small bags, then sealed them all in the Retort. Just "wargaming" it I thought if you cracked your emergency fire kit it might be really handy for all the items to be be sealed. If you only need one or two, the rest can remain completely dry and intact.

The one bummer is that I had a small package of Tinder-Quik that I forgot to seal in that last one!

Phaedrus:

I have to admit that I am very jealous,, that is one kicker of a sealer. I have the clamp style vacuum sealer and was rather proud of that. But now, I have to go back and do more research! Your ability to make "flexible jars" I find really interesting!

Having considered myself a bit of a food geek and an armature chef, I see that you really have taken it to an amazing level. Correct me if I am wrong but in one of the pics did I see a Hand torch for cooking?? Now that gets HUGE points..

GREAT report and Thank you for sharing and keeping the ideals of this forum in mind as you share and learn, your post is a great asset.

One thing that really stood out to me about your posting was that you can make MRE’s and still control the ingredients... Being a diabetic I am always keeping a watchful eye on the sugars and the sodium (the sodium has no real affect on my diabetes just don’t like too much of it) and the fact that you showed me a way to make my own MRE’s really has been a benefit! Thank you

Tyber

I would pay for some Wetfire sealed in one of these retort pouches. Would you prefer the money up front or be reimbursed?

I am jealous and now have an item for my Christmas wish list!

Hi, Tyber. Yeah, I've worked as chef for around 25 years. In the last decade or so I've become obsessed with is now called "molecular gastronomy". All foods, whether Mountain Dew or potatoes, are chemical compounds. I've just learned to manipulate them in ways that, um...aren't obvious. ;-)

Good eye, buddy! That's an Iwatani torch, probably the best on the market. Uses the same butane cells that my porto stove does.

Since you're a foodie I'll "de-cloak" and drop into tech stuff (with apologies to the rest of the flock).

I'm in love with cooking sous vide. The phrase is French for "under void" (aka under vacuum). The broad meaning is to cook in a water bath at extremely precise temps, sometimes for days. Imagine if you will, beef brisket that falls apart on your plate yet is still medium rare! Easy peasy for SV!

Chicken breasts are a challenge for non-pro cooks. Too little and they're rare and gross; too long and they're dried out. With SV you can pasteurize them at a 140 F and make them so juicy you won't believe it.

Okay, okay- this isn't a cooking site! I won't bore rest of you but a good vacuum sealer combined with a good water oven/cirulator will change the way you approach food!

On that last count, a retort pouch is simply a flexible can- no more, no less. And into that can you can decide what goes in. My late dad (rest his soul) was also diabetic. I deal with food science and diet a lot and his condition was one factor that drives this current project. You don't need 2 grams of salt in a dish! Especially 2 g x 3 meals per day!

But, um...it still seals survivals stuff!

/Geek-off/

For the moment let me set aside the issue of money. I love money, don't get me wrong, but this project will never be about money. We have a chance to kind of circumvent certain elements that leverage a minor technological advantage into a lot of money. Okay, in plain English- I won't charge you ten bucks simply because I have tech that you don't.

Ah, the riddle of WetFire! As good as it gets when it works, pretty worthless when is it doesn't. To be complete I want to ask if you've followed the "Is Weber Tinder Really WetFire" threads? My opinion is that if they're not the same product, from the same assembly line, then they're at least cousins.

I think I need to have some of you WetFire fans send me some product and a few bucks. I'll send you back your WF along with some Weber stuff. You tell me if there's a difference aside from WF being smaller and 10X more expensive.

No knock! ETS is and should be a Survival Lab! I'll do all I can to facilitate this.

I'm not looking to do more than break even- and my real payoff will the be knowledge gained.

-P-

Was not familiar with the Weber fire starters, but just ordered some from amazon. I have a Boy Scout Wilderness survival Merit Badge campout coming up and I will try them out next to some wet fire. If the weather is not too bad I will video tape it. I was just excited about your new toy and interested in the packaging of some survival stuff. Since the Wet fire tend to expire it seemed like a good candidate. I am serious about begging for one for Christmas. I can see so many uses.

i had no idea they even such a thing for home use..if you really thought about it i'll bet you could get a basic BOB out of that.
sleeping bag??

This is awesome, and I hope you'll continue to let us know how it goes.

With regard to retort pouch cooking, sous vide, or cooking in general, we haven't drifted too far off-topic here but you're certainly welcome to post recipes and wax rhapsodic about that in Around The Campfire. I for one would enjoy hearing more about those things from you.

Ah, the VaCmaster! I thought the letter C had an extra stroke at the bottom, and I started wondering...

I've wanted to do sous vide for a long time, but I'm too afraid of poisoning myself.

Fantastic! Now thats the way to pack your gear. Could you list your source for equipment? Sealer, bags, etc? Always nice to have a wish list.

I bought mine here but there are lots of other sources. Next time I buy bags I'll probably order from The Web Restaurant Store as they have a great selection of 4 mil and even 5 mil thick bags. Thicker would be better for sealing firestarting stuff, I think.

Of course, a lot of stuff can be sealed with a $45 Rival vacuum sealer. My brother has one and it works well. It's tricky to seal very wet items and it won't seal a retort pouch but it's fine for general use. I've sealed a ton of bandages, bundles of fatwood, etc with a similar unit.

But it is really cool to finally have this bad boy!

The fly in the ointment is that whatever you're sealing has to fit in the chamber. Mine is about 5.5" x 12" x 15". You probably couldn't compress most bags enough to get into the VP215. Chamber vacs start getting really expensive as they get larger, and for good reason. Think how strong the chamber has to be to not be crushed by the weight of the atmosphere when drawing 29.3" of vacuum. Not to mention how much work it is to pull many cubic feet of air out of the larger ones.

A small summer bag might just fit, if you really cinched it down. That would be fun to try. And now that you've given me the idea I wonder how small I could compress one of those fleece bags?

BTW, Happy Birthday CANOEDOGS!

A little late for this order, but if you like them and have an ACE Hardware in your area they carry them. They're around $5 for a 24 pack. They come sealed in a plastic "ice cube tray" type thing with foil over the top. The packaging is probably sufficient for sitting on a shelf but taking a tab out threatens to unseal its neighbor. No big deal I guess if you're using them to light your Weber but not good as a survival tinder.

For storage of the bulk packs I've been vac sealing each tray. I then pack them into pouches of 1, 2 or 3 cubes for carry. Typically with my old sealer I used 2 or even 3 bags to ensure redundancy. With heavier bags I probably won't have to do that anymore.

I've started a lot of fire with those Weber cubes! I like them a lot.

A really good top end bag by Western Mountaineering and other specialty builders would probably fit....

I'm game for anything you folks would like to try.

Wiggy's does one for the military. Wiggy's vacuum sealed sleeping bag

But if you can do one that you already own, it would be nice.

Wiggy's has a multi-ton hydraulic press to ram those bags. I just have my VP215!

Okay, I was messing around with a WetFire tab. It appears that they seal them and then gas purge them; some inert gas, probably nitrogen, is pumped into the package before it's sealed. You can tell because the WetFire package is like a little "pillow", not a tighly packed "brick."

I sealed the unopened WetFire in a 2.5" x 10" pouch in my VP215 and the results were interesting. The resulting package was a very tight package with no "pillow." This indicates that either the gas in the original pouch is very compressible or, more likely, the original package is ruptured by a vacuum that strong. A third alternative explanation is that my WetFire had a hole in the package to begin with- it didn't seem quite as "pillowy" as I remember them normally being.

All I can do is open it and see if it will burn. If it came open in my sealer I can't imagine that would hurt anything since it was sealed back up in a very strong vacuum. Of course if it had a pinhole to begin with it's hard to say whether or not it was still good when I sealed it.

I'll try to remember to take a pic after work tomorrow, and in any event I'll take a pic before I open it.

I'd love to see a video review of the comparison! BTW, today I was out and about so I swung by ACE Hardware and bought two more boxes. My plan is to vacuum seal them in packs of one or two cubes. A couple days ago I purchased some of these bags from eBay. They look like they might work for sealing WetFire or Weber Cubes. I've got a couple of them in Orange added to the order. Maybe they'll suck but I like the inclusion zip-lock closure inside. They're fully vacuum sealed til you rip the top off, then you can still reseal it with the zipper to keep liquid water out. I'll test them out when they arrive and keep you all posted.

For those interested in my results with WetFire, I can definitively state that it ruptured after is was sealed and before atmosphere was let in. The new outer bag has the gas pillow. Squeezing it underwater reveals no bubbles from the new pack, so it's clear that the nitrogen is in the outer layer.

This is probably a good sign that the WetFire was viable.

Today I got some mylar bags that have a ziplock closure on them. They're 5" x 7", and the idea is that the rip notch is right under where you seal- you open the bag and can re-seal it with the ziplock. They seem to seal very well. They're 5 mil thick and seem very durable. And they're more flexible than the retort pouches. If they're durable enough I'll probably explore them further. A more flexible bag allows the package to be sealer smaller.

Lastly, I have a similar mylar bag on the way in a 3.75" x 4" size. These are available in black, red, orange, silver, gold, blue & green. If they work out they'll be perfect for 1 or 2 WetFires or Weber cubes.

Been too busy (read: lazy! ) to take any pics yet but when I get the chance it'll be a doozy!

Soon I'll be looking for a few volunteers to try out my packaging. It will be free to the recipients. The only payment I request is feedback to help me figure out how to best seal & package them.

Could let us know the source? Sounds like a useful product.

Pete

The bags seem to look tougher than the plastic one that I use.

I got these particular bags at Amazon.com. Not a great price there but I'm a Prime member so I got One Day Shipping for a few bucks. What can I say- I'm impatient! They're pretty good bags from what I can tell so far.

They're very tough, especially ones this thick. I don't know how much abuse they'll take but just handling them you can tell they're sturdy.

Phaedrus, it's Saturday morning movie time here and this week's selection made me think of your awesome new toy!

http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/starwars/pages/han-solo-carbonite.shtml.

(Hey, somebody had to point it out!)

Hahaha! That is my next step- freezing in carbonite!