Nice rescue & novel underwater window breaking...

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Passers-by-rescue-children-from-icy-Utah-river-2436555.php

Says he put his handgun gun against the window underwater and fired:


One thing that's not clear to me is how the driver ended up outside the vehicle with all the windows and doors closed.

I wonder if the father jumped out of the car before the water flow / vehicle angle held the doors closed.

Also significant: Thankfully Willden EDCs a knife.

Does anyone know about the safety issues involving firing a round underwater in such a situation? I recall vaguely having a conversation with a navy diver who said he generally wouldn't shoot underwater, because the bullet doesn't travel that far, and the shock wave would be very punishing for the shooter. In this rescue scenario, would the rescuer risk injuring the submerged or the partially submerged kids (i.e., damaging their hearing)?

A lot of heroes in that story. Thank heaven the children were revived.

Thanks for posting it.

Those kids would be SOL if they lived in Australia, both guns and folders are banned.

I keep a Houdini Rescue Tool in my truck; it's attached to a paracord loop around the steering column. The Houdini is hard to separate from the lanyard loop but one good tug and it pops off (with the other end secured, that is). The nice thing is the loop is way too small to slip over the wheel so it has nowhere to go in the event of a rollover, etc. It has a belt cutter and a glass breaker, and I've tested both to be sure they work.

interview here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45853756/ns/us_news-life/
Sounds like he and his son should be awarded honorary ETS membership:

He also explains how he aimed so that the bullet would hit the inside of the upside-down roof.

Reminds me of when I was a teenager and my dad & I were at a horse show. We're not horse people and we were only there to watch my sister ride. A horse pulling some type of little cart spooked and took off, the driver dragging behind with the reigns wrapped around her foot. Much to my surprise, my dad hopped the fence and took off after it.

I stood there and thought "What's he doing? He doesn't know anything about horses, he's liable to scare the thing worse!" Luckily someone stopped the horse. When my dad got back, I asked him what the heck he had planned to do. He told me "I wasn't going to do anything! I expeced you to be right behind me and use your pocket knife to cut the reigns!"

Oh.

Had it been an icy river, I'd like to think I would have been right there. But with horses, as a layman, my plan is: "First, do no harm."

There is no barotrauma from a handgun fired underwater. Personal experience with .9mm and 40cal. You feel a pressure wave like clapping hands over your ears under water, but it is annoying rather than painful. But the attenuation of sound seemed (to me) to be less uncomfortable than if fired in air.

Phaedrus,

Nearly all glass breaking tools are usless underwater. There is no friction with the ground to swing one quickly and water resistance slows it down. Automatic center punches would work but unless there is something to hang onto you cannot push it in to cock the spring.

As to the ear damage, a contact shot will not pose too much threat to the diver as the gas pressure all goes inside. In some areas a Glock is the standard shark defense tool if you are spearfishing. A non contact shot would be loud enough to be uncomfortable but, as has been stated, the alternative is worse. There is the possibility of ear damage but it is small.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Length of the barrel has an effect on shooting a firearm while
underwater. Handguns are the way to go for this.

Ammo questions...
It was always my understanding that using a handgun underwater necessitated usng fmj ammo due to the water having a stronger hydrstatic effect on expansion of hollowpoint rounds. Considering most people carry aggressive jhp's for deffensive carry, would those expansion forces be enough to expand the bullet before it left the barrel possibly damaging the firearm and potenially causing other damage? something to think about...

As an aside, glocks have an optional fluted firing pin cup for firing underwater. Most people don't have an 'operational' need for this.

Kuzushi,

Urban Myth all the way. I have shot or seen shot many different types of HP ammunition. When recovered, the bullet is undeformed. Firing into water is the most common way for forensics labs to recover tool marks on a round. The reason many use GI FMJ is that it is sealed both at the primer and at the case neck. Most commercial ammo is not. It may fail to fire after a few minutes to a few hours in the water.

The Glock amphibious firing pin is useful as it prevents the water from blocking firing pin motion. It does not always do it, but it can. More often when you get out of the water with a wet pistol. The flutes allow the water to drain quickly. That is the primary design concept of the pin, not for use underwater since the pistol becomes only a contact weapon below the surface.

Respectfully,

Jerry

It uses a spring loaded punch. Since my truck isn't an extended cab it would be hard to imagine the circumstance where I couldn't find anything to braced myself on.

Phaedrus,

From inside yes, but if you have to help someone else (as in this case) from the outside, it is a real problem. There is usually little or nothing to hang onto and nothing to brace against. In a public safety dive course we had several people try their EDC tools on a submerged car, none of them worked.

Respectfully,

Jerry

I could see that. It would depend on the type of vehicle, to be sure. My truck is old enough that it has door handles and mirrors mounted on tubular steel but many newer vehicles are much "slicker" on the outside. In a shallow river or other body of water that was waist deep or shallower you should get enough leverage from your legs but in a water over your head it would be an issue, for sure.