Lighter warning

Those of you who have been here awhile might recall that, unlike some, I was never very thrilled with my Windmill lighter. It's lightweight, and windproof... but it's expensive, the gaskets don't seem to do anything (mine's been immersed twice, and I had to disassemble it and dry it both times, not trivial) and doesn't hold much fuel. Mine won't light the first time if I push the button too fast, it seems that it sparks before fuel has reached the sparker. The lid hinge seems sort of flimsy and wobbly when it's open.

I was reviewing the lighters on colibri.com, and had gotten interested in their "Seal" model, that's supposed to be waterproof to 3 atmospheres, has a metal latch to dog the lid down against a gasket, and has a compass in the base, a feature I like. I found one for about a third of list price on eBay and ordered it.

Well, it's a lot bigger and heavier than the Windmill, but I guess I could live with that. There's a big, thick gasket, but for some reason the latching mechanism on the lid barely puts any pressure on the gasket at all- I'm not confident that it would resist any immersion for long, despite the impressively solid hardware and heft- and extra motions necessary to open it, which would probably make it a bad choice for smokers that would be doing it several times a day.

The real bummer was the compass. It didn't work. It showed some slight tendency to point North, but anywhere within about 90 degrees to each side seemed to satisfy it just as well. So far, we have a heavy lighter who's main features are waterproofness and a compass. The waterproofness is doubtful, and the compass doesn't work at all. Not good.

I've sent the lighter back (the dealer seems to be vacillating on whether he's going to refund my money), but in the meantime I swung by a local Davidus Cigars store just to see if they had the same model. They had two of them... and the compasses were actually worse. They showed no inclination to point North at all, seeming perfectly happy with whatever direction they happened to be pointing in at the moment. One already had a small bubble. The dealer seemed to think it was silly to expect them to actually work- he kept saying "it's a lighter", as though that explained it. These were on sale for the list price of $70. I pointed out that for $70, you'd think the $2 compass would at least work.

I'm really surprised that it seems so difficult to find a solid, waterproof, windproof lighter, at any price. The compass would be a nice feature, and it's not exactly rocket science to bother to buy one wholesale that actually points North.

I tried [color:"red"] [/color] 3 [color:"black"] [/color] of these Seal lighters and found that all had non functional compass. I think the reason for this is that they are cheap compasses surrounded by ferrous metal. On on unit the compass was much more responsive after I popped it out of the base.

Chris

It never occurred to me that the metal surrounding the compass might be ferrous, and I didn't test it. I just assumed that no manufacturer would be so stupid....

Oh, well. Maybe this one works:

http://www.elighters.com/1051.html

Let us know. I would still like to get one.


Chris

I too have had similar problems with 'waterproof' lighters. The Solos Storm ones I have are definitely not waterproof despite the rubber gasket o-ring. The latch just doesn't come done snug enough.

Anyways, I have decided to forgo the ability of lighters to survive a dunking and be waterproof. I just pack a few bics in a ziploc or rely on the trusty old spark lite or ranger rick type fire starters.

And also save the money to buy a $2 compass as well.. ...
<img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've recently been testing the Solo Storm lighter. Not perfect, but so far not bad. But then, I've had pretty good luck with the Windmills. <shrug> Nonbe of them are really waterproof or submersible; I'm coming to beleive that water-resistant is the best you can expect.

http://www.getlit.com

What about the simple, 89 cent Bic lighters? I've left them in my pocket during a wash cycle, took them out afterwards and they work just fine. I don't know if that constitutes as "waterproof" but being in a washing machine for 25 minutes had to give it a good soaking.

I have also swam with a Bic in my pocket. After about 15 minutes of drying, it worked like a charm. I think I'm going to do a test tomorrow, just to see what happens. I'll put a Bic in two feet of water for about an hour, then see if it lights up. And, of course, I'll post the results here afterwards.

John McIntire

how about pernament matches, they are cheap, smaller, waterproof. a little harder to lite though...

Hi all and compliments of the season. I have a Windmill Delta Stormproof lighter and that it is. Works perfectly everytime. I am very happy with mine so far and I have had it for over a year now. I love lighters and have several in my different kits and include trench lighters, pocket torchers, Zippos, Bics etc etc. I still love my Windmill Delta. <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

John,

My opinion is that having to dry a piece of survival gear off before being able to use it is a deficiency that I'd just as soon not care to deal with. In some circumstances that might be extremely difficult to even accomplish. And, 15 minutes, to use your example, can be a very long time when you are wet. freezing and running out of energy and time. There's also the issue of the flame intensity and wind resistance.

By the same token, some simple vacuum packaging, shrink wrap or other means can waterproof almost any piece of equipment. There are ideals or ultimate performance in the most difficult of environments that we strive to meet with our gear and there's the reality of what we can find/afford or otherwise make do with. Many throw a few BIC style lighters in their kits and on their person simply because 95% of the time they are adequate for the job and at the price, why not? That's not really the issue in this instance.

I would agree with your reservations about the Windmill. In my usage, the hinged plstic lid is often in the way when lighting tinder.

I still carry my Windmill, but I found a Solo lighter with an extendable tube (it is billed as a candle lighter on their website) that is much easier in normal usage. It cost about twelve bucks at the local sporting goods store. Refillable, definitely not waterproof, but quite reliable in normal circumstances. I suspect that if I were wearing gloves and/or slightly hypothermic, that extending the tube would be a mild hassle.

Is usage, I carry both the Windmill and the Solo, backed up with stormproof matches and at least one disposable Bic, all in a sealable water tight pouch.

This last summer I carried all this gear on a bicycling tour near the Black Hills, and it was so dry and hot that I never lit my stove, not even once.

I'd have to agree. The small Bic is just about as good as you can get. I personally wasted my money on the Brunton Helios (not unlike the Windmill), after hearing lots of great things about these types of lighters.

Well, the fact is that the only advantage of the Helios over the Bic is that it works a bit better in the wind. The Bic actually lights cigarettes better than the Helios, it's a lot smaller, lasts many, many times longer than a Helios charge, and ignites things faster! Not to mention the price of the Helios and fuel.

I like to find the two-pack in cellophane of the mini Bics, and keep the package sealed so that I know they haven't been used.

I handled the Storm or a close copy (didn't know the name at the time) before I ordered the Windmill. No real experience, but it seemed sturdier probably more waterproof- if a lot larger.

I don't disagree- for backpacking and kits I often use the small Bic. Can't be beat for the bulk and weight, and there is no lid to get in the way. I came near to melting the lid on my Windmill trying to light a lantern- not good.

And you're right- the Helios looks a LOT like a Windmill (or very close clone) with an external rubber casing.

Back in the early '80's Eddie Baur briefly carried a tiny butane lighter in a black, screw-open plasic capsule an inch and a half long, with o-ring and very waterproof. I bought two and still have one almost unused. IMHO it's a bit bulky for an Altoids-size tin, but ideal for sailing. I carried the other for EDC for years on a keyring, but finally the metal jump ring on the end wore through the little plastic stud that held it. I'm sure I put it somewhere safe... since then, I've been afraid to carry the other that way, but it's ideal for my "water" kit.

Maybe I should have made it clear that this quest isn't for an item to go in a kit, it's for every-day pocket carry... and I don't smoke. I've used the lighter mostly for gallant gestures in day-to-day life, and a compass mostly for getting oriented leaving the subway.

>>how about pernament matches, they are cheap, smaller, waterproof. a little harder to lite though... <<

I have a few of those. They vary considerably in quality depending on the manufacturer, but I like them in general. They are very flat, small, very waterproof, refill with ordinary lighter fluid or kerosene, reliable, and if you run out of fuel, you still have a ferrocerium rod and a striker for sparks. Working more like a match, it's much easier light a fire, candle or lantern with them than with most lighters. I've got them in my two smallest kits now.

However, I brought them up some time back (years?) on this forum, and got slammed by someone who vehemently called them junky toys, and that seemed to be the end of that conversation. They are marketed mostly as a novelty item, but I fail to see much wrong with them. Heck, I'd be happy to buy a few to have Doug and Chris review them. I think they're worthy of some attention.

There was a posting by me few months back that kind of blasted Windmill for not being waterproof. I took a swim with it and it failed me. I think that waterproof lighter can be made if necessary. In the store you can buy one of those slim lighters that are shaped like a cigarettere. Smack that thing into one of those waterproof stainless steel capsules and you have yourself an underwater lighter. I think that such combo maybe taller than windmil but not as "fat". I think I give it a try. So far I shrink wrap my bic as an addition to my Windmil.

Matt

I like the permanent matches. Had some many many years ago and was pleasantly surprised to find them readily available locally again last year. They take a few moments to learn to use and then it's trivial. Cohglan's packages one with a box of waxy cotton "tinder" but oddly enough do not mention the use of the device as a match - not one mention of lighter fluid.

They are more than waterproof enough for personal immersion in glacial run-off. They are no more wind-resistant than a paper match is, but cupping the flame long enough to ignite something in windy conditions is an easily aquired skill. Not a one-hand-in-the-wind device, but a useful small device in my experience.

I work from time to time in a pipe/cigar shop. We sell and to some extent repair every lighter mentioned. Several of us are rabid outdoorsmen (others, just rabid). Here's my opinion.. for what it's worth:
1)any propane lighter will be more difficult to light than any fluid lighter if very cold or at higher altitude.
2)every fluid lighter (Zippo, e.g.) is more vulnerable to fuel evaporation than any gas lighter. Zippo is supposed to be selling (in 2003) a 1+oz. fuel capsule (like a mini fuel bottle) which I'll probably ranger-band to my Zippo when I get it.
3)Forget about waterproof lighters! If yours happens to be, great. But there are more failures in that area than you would expect. I second Doug's point: put it in a waterproof container, or just consider it water repellant.
4)Piezoelectric (quartz) gas lighters are quite vulnerable to dust/grit, which will change how the lighter is "timed" and thus cause a lighting failure. So are the "torch" type lighters, which also burn a lot of fuel.
5)All butane is not alike. I am convinced that the cheaper brand (e.g. Ronson) has caused us much more trouble than the premium brands (e.g. Colibri). Their story is that the premium fuels are better filtered. I believe it!
6)If your lighter will light in wind... I bet a Zippo will stay lit longer and better than a gas lighter. But certainly some of the gas lighters mentioned will light in wind.

Finally,..(sorry for being so long winded). I polled several lighter repair experts who are also outdoorsmen. Zippo wins hands down... with a backup fuel capsule.

got a tip about pernament matches ( a pretty logical one ): if you spill some fuel over the striker box make sure the fuel is fully removed.
i remember once i spilled some fuel on top of mine permanent match and just wipped it clean with an tissue. wenn i ignited the match the top of the box ignited with it <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> i also had a icident were the wick burned... but thats a nother story <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the feedback.

Even though this is for EDC and not a kit, because I’m not a smoker, and I go for weeks without using a lighter in normal life, a “Zippo” type just doesn’t work for me- it will have evaporated dry almost every time I need it. Other than that, I agree about the reliability. The butane lighters are much more complex. All of which sound like arguments for the Permanent Match, come to think of it.

Even though I’ve only used Colibri fuel, evidently the “timing” of my Windmill is now off. Not surprising, considering what it’s been through. Neither immersion was intentional, both required disassembly.

Sooo… though I don’t really dispute anything you’ve said, I’m not quite ready to give up the looking for a reasonably waterproof gas lighter, preferably with a compass, quite yet.

Presumed Lost: Point well taken. I use a butane lighter for my edc myself. Zippo when going into the woods. I'll check with my lighter repair guru to see which ones seem to come back to him less often, and are waterproof??

Not one to hesitate throwing good money after bad, I ordered a Lucienne Mountaineer yesterday, and was just informed that it has shipped. We'll see.

Hello all,


It's been a while....I've been busy. Nuff said.

Ran into a little widget in Wal-mart the other day. It was a container for a mini-Bic, touted to be water-proof. I passed it up (I'm a smoker, I carry and refuel a Zippo regularly). I'll grab one the next time I'm there, put a mini-Bic in it and toss it a bucket of water overnight. And then I'll let you know....


Take care,

Andy

Yeah, that sounds great. Let us know!

John McIntire

I received the Lucienne "Mountaineer" lighter that I ordered last night- another disappointment. Too bad, too... this one came close.

First impression, it's larger than I thought it would be (that was true with the Colibri "Seal", too- none of the manufacturers seem to include anything in the photographs for scale). I sort of thought it would be "Cricket" lighter-sized, but it's more military-matchsafe size. It's probably lighter than the Colibri Seal was, but because of it's shape, it's a little more awkward to pocket.

Very solid feeling. Unlike all the others I know about, the locking mechanism on the cap of this one really does seem to compress the gasket enough for it to be waterproof. The “locking frame” seems sturdy, as the container itself. The end with the filler aperture has a nicely gasketed cap on it. All in all, pretty nice, especially for the relatively modest (compared to the Colibri Seal) price.

Except, of course, for the compass. Initially, it didn’t work at all, just pointing wherever you turned it , just like the Colibri Seal compass. After fiddling with it and shaking it, I managed to dislodge a LARGE bubble from underneath the compass disk, so large that it then tilted the disk from above and interfered with it’s turning. Useless.

So-back to the dealer it goes. Very frustrating- that’s two high-end lighters with compasses that don’t even try to work properly- or four, if you count checking out 3 Colibri Seals. Apparently early 21st- Century technology is not capable of turning out a decent waterproof lighter with a compass that actually works, though there are plenty of expensive lighter with compasses that don't work at all.

I’m sort of surprised.

I haven't decided whether to give up on this, or to explore some of the cheap Asian imports. How much worse could they be?

I've increased the "water-resistant-ness" of my zippo by simply snapping a one inch piece of tire tube over the lighter. I simply roll it down to use it (which is not often as I don't smoke.) This also seems to reduce the evaporation factor by a small percet.

Make sure you use a small road bike style inner tube.

Hello all,

Just an update:

The local Wal-mart no longer carries the gadget I mentioned. I have contacted the supervisor of the section the item was in, and she has promised to try and contact the distributor and get the item back in. I was told it may take a while. I'll let you know something as soon as I do. Sorry for getting your hopes up.

Take care,

Andy

Still no luck locally. I have, however, managed to find (finally) a website for the !@#$%ing things.


click here

Take care,

Andy

Guess everyone has played the "lighter game". Here is my score.

I tried the Cabella (about $50) lighter and found that if I used it for more than 20 seconds it would suddenly burn my finger! Happens so fast you can't let go. Then it clogged up and has become inop. Also, can't see the liquid level so I was forever filling it (just in case). Never was sure if it was really full. Now it lives in the "disgusted" drawer.

Had a zippo for years, but found that the nickle in the case irritated my skin, even through the cloth in my pocket. Also the fuel seemed to escape a bit and made the irritation worse. I don't smoke, so it was always out of fuel (evaporation) when needed. Also packing it with other things in a kit made all items smell like fuel. I always wondered if the fuel fumes were damaging other articles in the kit. Discarded.

Bic's. Well, good at first, but they are hard to light something with. Small and weak flame. Seem to survive normal handling well, but sometimes hard to light. Not at all windproof. Discarded.

Cricket: Finally one that seems to meet my needs. It is small, light, and lives in my EDC easily, with another in my pocket. So far, lights every time and the flame is OK. Cheap, have them tucked everywhere. I like the "childproof" lock. keeps it from accidental discharge. Some of the others are very difficult to operate when hands are cold and wet (slippery). So I would break off the lock and they would then leak when packed. Also the cricket is made of a translucent material and if I hold it up to a bright light, I can see the liquid level.

Tried a storm lighter. Seems best of the bunch. I can see the level. It seems to survive being wet, but I have not tested it. Someone with more $$, that can afford destroying a $12 lighter might dunk one and let me know. That is the problem with distructive testing. I am just careful with mine and keep it in a waterproof BOB kit. Nice hot flame and it does not burn my finger.

Storm Candle: A $14 butane with an extendable flame rod. Works OK, but I think it is not up to a EDC standard. Weak flame. Have not had it very long but I am not impressed. I thought that because it was made by storm it would have the same type hot flame, but alas, just a weak easily blown out little flame. It now lives in the "Stove" box in my truck. Usefull for lighting my one burner stove.

I do not carry any of the "magnesium" fire sticks. Did for years and found that when packed they damage other things. If exposed to air they decay and turn to a powder. This powder seems to be especially nasty to electronic stuff. I did not try to isolate them from other items and perhaps coating them or some other isolation technique may work. Not worth the risk to me. Have the resolved this problem?

Matches. I have tried them all and do not want to risk my "fire" on the number I can stick in a small package. Experience has shown me that a lighter will provide more lights (obviously) in a smaller and more robust package than matches. Yes, I would bet my life on that.

Butane lighters have their risks, but carefull use and frequent routine checking have provided the best "bang for buck" in my world.

Nomad..