Fall Kit for Urban Hikes

I usually overpack, so tonight I put together a pack for more urban hikes. It's designed for shorter hikes, on established trails, where the walk to the car would be no more than a couple of hours and that parking lot will be in an urban area.

These are often the type of hikes we take our Beaver (5-7 yo) and Cub (8-10 yo) Scouts on so that will be this pack's main purpose.

Note: We also have a group pack with a large thermos of hot chocolate, cups and a FAK. Everyone is given a lanyard with whistle at every hike, and all are required to dress appropriately for the weather and bring their own water bottle.

I wear a lanyard with whistle, LED, Gerber Mini Multitool and fire steel, and also carry my EDC on person. (i.e. Leatherman kit, key ring with whistle, SAK, etc...)

My new kit has:

-compass, map of route (filed with group and all parents) including local emerg numbers
-FAK with extra triangular, extra mylar sleeping bag and emerg info and contact info for all group members
-2 LED headlamps + 1 set extra batteries
-wool hat, mitts and socks
-extra kids hat, mitts and socks
-extra group necker (big Scouting bandana)
-blaze orange rain jacket
-heatsheet
-1Lg red garbage bag
-2 pairs chem warmers
-1L water bottle
-army canteen and cup
- 2 seasame bars
-3 pieces fruit leather
-fire kit with bic, strike anywhere matches, fire steel and tinder
-small roll of duct tape
-Leatherman Folder
-modifyed Ritter AMK PSK with SAK, keyring flashlight, mag block and mini bic
-some feminine hygene stuff
-half roll of tubeless toilet paper
-personal otc meds

The pack weghs maybe 10 or 15 pounds with full water bottles.

What would you add/subtract?

Thanks?

I would add,Your un-enthused husband to carry it for you,lol! Just kidding!It reads like you are Very Prepared to Survive!A very prepped kit,Indeed!

I always find room to carry a couple of chem lights... guess it's from my younger days out on the Gulf of Mexico at night...

possibly a folding saw to process wood if you had to make a splint or firewood if for some reason you had to remain overnight....

a good fixed blade like a Grohmann #4

I'm really impressed after upgrading my SureFire 6P with a Malkoff drop in, possibly a small 123 powered high output light...

Impressive. That looks pretty good, particularly for a hike that's fairly close to the car and described as "urban". Particularly important for some are personal medications (diabetics, heart medication, etc). I try to always have a 3 day supply of anything important (mainly ibuprofen for my knees).

I don't see a cell phone on the list, but I'd bet there are a few along with the group when you're out.

I'd probably bring along a little beverage can alcohol stove, but I'm me (see my "signature" line if you don't understand that remark).

A spare pair of prescription glasses if you really need them isn't a bad idea. I wear glasses to drive at night but can get by without them pretty well. My wife? Well let's say bats out see her 10:1.

HJ

If you're hiking with kids
--More food

-- extra garbage bags

-- band aids

--More tp, hand sanitizer



Take the duct tape off the roll.

Great kit. I'm loathe to suggest additions because of the weight, but a few thoughts from some limited scout experience -

1. A few spare plastic bags - just for carrying / bundling wet kit
2. Esbit stove or similar, and instant hot chocolate - easiest way to get a kid who has fallen in water warm and feeling OK again. Plus in wet woods esbit tabs are a great way to get a fire started
3. Does the fak have OTC meds for small kids e.g. liquid NSAIDs? Calpol (or whatever ibuprofen solution is called in US) sachets can be a godsend
4. Bag of hard candy - always useful as a bribe / reward / morale booster

Do the kids carry anything - as per the excellent post put up recently? Just a garbage bag each would save you carrying and if the group got stranded gives everyone shelter

Even a small multitool could make a big difference.

That looks pretty terrific to me - more than I carry near the city.

One thing I do always have on me and use quite often - for dog walks and hiking - is a small Moleskine notepad and pen (Space pin refill cartridge, actually).

I can imagine that being useful for recording medical info (vital signs, etc) and if for some reason you needed to write something down for the kids.

And the pages would be useful fire tender in a crunch.

Great kit! Now use it: at some mid point on your hikes, stop, and deploy the kit or some part of it with your Cub Scouts. Get them familiar with the kit and its contents, and what its good for. If you have a big red garbage bag, fill it with leaves and crawl inside for warmth, or make holes and put it over one of the Scouts for rain protection. And so on. Don't let your kit be a mystery to young Scouts, the big bag that Dad carts along Just In Case - you'll want them to know what you have, and be able to ask you to deploy things, or deploy them on their own.

Also, they are old enough to learn a few tricks to minimize the risks that come with hiking, so make sure to teach them some good habits (which are deeply embedded in Scout adventuring anyway). If they learn them now, its even less likely you'll have to deploy your kit in the future.

Team up - use the buddy system on every hike. Its way, way more difficult for 2 Scouts to get lost together.

Second, slowest hiker in front - no one racing ahead, chasing deer, getting off trail, getting easily lost. Its best to have a more mature younger hiker immediately behind the slowest hiker to help manage and buttress the slowest hiker versus others who just want to go fast. Resist the go fast mentality, your Scouts will get spread out too quickly.

Third, Keep together - I think its important to keep young hikers in sight at all times, a train of hikers spreading miles ahead of you is just looking for trouble. The only exception is when you have some older mature hikers who can hike ahead with a knot of hikers, and one who can dawdle along with the second, slower group. This is a "rule" that you can adjust to circumstances, responsibility and ages of your hikers.

Third, you or another adults should be in sweeper position - last hiker. No one falls behind you, no one gets left behind.

I agree that it can seem like a lot, but keep in mind that as Scout leaders, we're providing examples for our youth and their parents to follow, trying to develop good habit in them. Our Scouts are on a solid preparedness path already, but our Cubs and Beavers are just at the beginning of their journeys. I prep assuming the worst. In an urban hike situation with my young Scouts, that could mean having to wait with an injured youth or parent for a few hours (for medical help/transport)in foul weather.

We prep for our Beavers, using the practices Lono suggests, and ask them for nothing more than proper footwear, clothing and the wear and know how to use the whistle we provide them on every outdoor adventure. (Hug a Tree is practiced on every outting.) We rotate through our parents, asking them to take turns carrying the group pack, and going it through it with them before each outting. Hopefully this will help instill good family practices.

Our Scouts and Cub Scouts have personal survival and FA kits that they are required to carry on every outting. We do a review of each one every time, including our leader's packs. Teach proactively and by example!

Seems like a lot of kids have severe allergies these days.

An Epi-Pen as a backup to any a child carries could make a big
difference. I have seen one fail before.

I don't see a decent shelter component in there. Every leader in the pack should have a basha/poncho/tarp on them. With fixing. Something happens, you need to get the kids out of the wind/sun/rain fast.

Seems to me that you have all the bases covered, good job. On the subject of Epi-pens, I was wondering how long you could keep one after the expiration date.

Unlike meds for something non-life threatening like, say, a headache, an Epi-pen could readily prevent a person's death. In such a risk/benefit equation, I personally wouldn't play around by knowingly carrying an expired Epi-pen although I know they're not cheap. I'm not saying that it's useless the day after the expiration date. The point is that there's no way for you or any of us to know how much or how fast the potency of any particular Epi-pen degrades once it's past the expiration.

Keep the expired Advil or canned goods if you'd like, but don't scrimp on the Epi-pen if you're going to go through the trouble of carrying one as potentially lifesaving measure.

Aren't Epi-pens prescription only? Does seem like an important thing with children. I've thought about it for my daughter.

HJ

My personal kit is a lot smaller, but with urban hikes I'm usually within a couple hundred yards of the road and taking it easy. I'm not guiding scouts.

*Pack - Small field (shoulder) bag. About ~6.5L capacity.
*Walking stick.
*Navigation kit - flashlight, baseplate compass, and map. No downsizing from the rural hikes kit.
*First aid - Sawyer extractor in the summer, nothing in cooler weather.
*Emergency - Storm whistle, full size lock-knife, lighter, flint, and tinder.
*Water bottle
*Depending on weather, location, and reason- Poncho, field guides with measuring tape and magnifying glass, notebook, sweater/jacket, and space blanket.

They require a prescription in the US, but I've heard that they are available without a prescription in Canada.

In Scouts anyway we expect Scouts with allergies to bring their own epipens, and let us know where they keep them. If stung, they use the epipen themselves: the only way for anyone else to apply the epipen is if they are unconscious. Its not a matter of training, although I suppose an inexperienced adult could screw up jabbing the Scout effectively; its a matter of liability too. And you're saving a life with an epipen, so follow with benadryl, get them off the trail and to medical assistance pronto.

I wouldn't bring an epipen as a just in case thing - in case a youngun experienced suddent unexpected anaphylaxis. A child is seizing on the ground, her throat is closing up - she isn't known to be allergic, do you really know what's going on, enough to justify the epipen injection? Without any history of allergic reactions, I'd do my best to interrupt the presumed histamine / antihistamine roller coaster with benadryl, and get medical assistance pronto.

Hmm, good points.

What I probably really need to do is to get my daughter tested for bee stings. So far, my wife has been oddly resistant. ???

HJ

Never give anything by mouth to someone who's having problems breathing or swallowing.

In general, if someone is having a severe allergic reaction, isn't carrying an Epipen and isn't wearing some kind of medical information device like MedicAlert or RoadID, keep them breathing and get them to the ER via the fastest method available.

I wouldn't even keep expired caned goods. Do you really want to risk your health over a can of corn?

Jeanette Isabelle

Just cook it really well.

Seriously though, most of those expiration dates on canned goods are a lot of hooey. And in a survival situation would I risk it? Yes.

HJ

What exactly does that date on the can mean?

As shoppers, we see so many dates on things in the supermarket that are probably not what we think they mean. "Best by", "best used by", "sell by", "consume by", "expiration date", or the lone date, with no real explanation. They all have different meanings, many of which are not intended to be used by consumers at all.

Canned food will remain edible way, way past the date on the can. As long as the can is not damaged, nothing is going to grow inside. You won't get food poisoning from it. The primary problem with old canned goods is that the nutritional content (like vitamins) is dimishing over time, and the palatability (color, texture, consistency, etc.) of the food will change with time. That's all.

Something so critical as an epi-pen or asthma inhaler, etc. I would keep current.

My veterinarian advised keeping my dog's various leftover ointments, etc that she's gotten for ear/eye/skin stuff. She said they'll be gradually less effective after the "sell by" date but they'll still be useful.

Foods can be fine a long while after the "sell by/best by" date -- which does not translate to: "lethal or unpalatable the day after." Sell by refers to optimal.

It's been awhile but I researched the subject once upon a time and tomato-based canned items go bad sooner because they are acidic. I did that research because I was in the process of making chili and discovered some canned ingredients were months past the sell by. No problemo.

I'll eat eggs (cooked) two or even three weeks after the sell by date (did that last week, in fact). A food scientist friend said that's fine. So far, no problems.

Agreed - in my FAK I carry benadryl quick dissolve strips, its not swallowed or inhaled, it literally melts on the tongue in approx 20 seconds. They are sorta pricey, but they are also the best option for an emergency dose of benadryl I could find when you can't rely on an airway.

Right on all counts NightHiker. Our neckers are cotton. Wool is much better for warmth so I do add one like the USGI version once the sub-zero weather arrives. (We've hit those temps already this year, very briefly, and are currently but in low double digits during the day and singles at night.)

I keep both bottles full - one for myself and another for those that invariably forget (and for emergencies). It's the heaviest part of the kit but, like you say, this pack is for short hauls so it doesn't really become an issue.

We do have on youth who is allergic to all black and yellow flying stingers. (Bees, wasps, hornets, etc.) His mom is a nurse at Toronto Sick Kids so is very prepped. He has his own backpack with 2 epipens and a cel phone in it. The drill with him is to jab and call 911 and jab again if things get worse before the ambulance arrives. He knows how to adminster it himself and we all know how to do it if he's can't.

Also have a youth who has asthma. He's got puffers and, again, know how to adminster them himselves. We're trained to watch and know when he needs to take a breather and when to encourage him to use those puffers. (One's pre-emptive and one's for a full blown attack, and it's important to help him remember the difference.)

As Scout leaders, we're not permitted to administer meds except in the most dire of circumstances, and only as our medical training allows. Following that protocol, I keep my personal meds with me, as well as meds for my son. I've always got extra to share with any parent that requests it but am not a walking pharmacy, especially on short hikes.

Thanks Leigh. You're right about the urgancy that could potentially arise. Lightening is one great example. On these shorter hikes, it's less likely, as we are very responsive to the weather and, with the younger Scouts, are likely to cancel the outting if the forescast is bad and the skies look to be argreeing.

Nonetheless, I need to be prepared. I've got a heatsheet, mylar blankets and contractor-sized garbage bag. Along with the string and duct tape in my kit, and the rope and tarp that's always in the group kit, I should be in good shape to construct something.

NOTE:

I should have given a better inventory of the group kits. Sorry. We carry two. One has a large thermos of hot chocolate, granola bars, mugs and FAK. The other has FAK, PSK, rope, tarp, a few emerg ponchos, extra lanyards with whistles, extra flashlights, 2 way radios,etc. We ask the parents to take turns carrying these, and inventory them with the parents before we hit the trailhead.

Nice kit Mark. This is on-par with what I carry on urban hikes with the family.

Where do I find those?

According to Benadryl's web site that product has been discontinued and no other similar product is available.

Darn it. Thanks.

+1
That sound(ed) like (it was) a good product.

HJ

Good clarification. My experience of having an epi-pen fail to
fire makes me very careful to have a backup for any kids known
to have severe allergies. If the parents don't provide it,
the kid doesn't go. One if my friends kids goes into shock
from inhaling a bit of powdered hot cocoa.

EXCELLENT point!

I took this kit along on a hike with my Beaver Scouts tonight. Not bad in terms of weight and comfort of carry. Added to my original list was is a bright yellow fleece vest for a little extra warmth (Temps dropped fast tonight) and a small pack of chem lights (marketed for kids so come in multiple colours and are about half the length of regular chem lights) and a red flashing light (designed for cyclists).

Other contents are:
-compass, map of route (filed with group and all parents) including local emerg numbers
-FAK with extra triangular, extra mylar sleeping bag and emerg info and contact info for all group members
-2 LED headlamps + 1 set extra batteries (kept in insert that fits in the 3XAAA flashlight I carry on my batbelt)
-wool mitts,socks and hat (brown beaver for warmth and entertainment)
-extra kids hat, mitts and socks
-extra group necker (big Scouting bandana - green and white thing)
-blaze orange rain jacket (in green stuff sack)
-heatsheet
-1Lg red garbage bag
-2 pairs chem warmers
-1L water bottle
-army canteen and cup
- 2 sesame bars
-3 pieces fruit leather
-fire kit with bic, fire steel and tinder and strike anywhere matches (kept in "survival whistle" with some QuickTinder)
-Leatherman Folder
-modified Ritter AMK PSK with SAK, keyring flashlight, mag block and mini bic
-some feminine hygiene stuff and half roll of tubeless toilet paper in ziplock bag
-personal otc meds
-hard case for prescription glasses

On body was:
-Photon II around neck
-lanyard with whistle, led, gerber mini multi-tool
-Leatherman with fire steel and AAA mag lite in sheath
-3XAAA flashlight (Nova LED with multiple settings)
-heatsheet
-blaze orange thinsulate hat
-clothing for worst case (layers, insulated rubber boots, gloves, etc.)

NEXT TIME: I need more tp or kleenex for runny noses.

It's better to have an excess of supply than to lack anything, especially if you're in the wilderness. Preparedness is never regrettable. But if you forgot something or you ran out of supply on something important, it would be like hell out in the middle of nowhere...








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http://concealedbodyarmor.weebly.com/

I usually subscribe to the "tis better to have it and not need it..." school of thought. However, I have limits.

At some point being totally prepared means toting a ton of weight. Learning to do without is good, but I am not forgoing TP for leaves. But I also don't want a pack that is so heavy it detracts from the fun I am supposed to be having.

I guess it depends on where you are in relation to civilization. The farther out you go, the more you take.

Right on all counts JBMat. The older the get the less I want to carry.

LOVE Burt!! Though I must hang my head and admit that I couldn't get through Tremors 3 the other night. I'll have to try again this weekend.

Burt, and Marvin from "Red", are 2 of my all-time favourites!

I went over to metal water bottles, so that, if needed, I could boil water in them

These are for you Izzy (and for the unitiated, of course):

Burt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOELVyd3Esw

Marvin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag-JBl9TKqw

I like metal water bottles too. I use a Guyot in my GHB and extended/wilderness hiking kits. The Canteen cup works well for boiling water too. I stuck with my Nalgene for my second bottle in this kit because it's got "Hello Sunshine!" on it and the kids love that because "Sunshine" is my Beaver Scouts leader name.