Place for bullet-proof vest?

Should we include a bullet-proof vest, or equivalent, in preparedness gear?

The problem with bullet-proof vests is that, they aren't actually bullet proof. Instead, they carry a rating for what they are tested to stop.

Typical concealable soft armor works fine against handgun rounds (up to what they're rated to stop), but rifle rounds zip right though. For rifle rounds you need hard plates, which are expensive, heavy, and not easy to conceal. Even then it's not an easy choice; there are different rating for rifle plates as well, standalone vs. soft-armor backed plates, different sizes, different shapes for the front/back sides of vests, and so on. All of which come with their own set of requirements for proper care/maintenance to prevent degradation or failure.

That's not even getting into the legal side of things. In some states civilian ownership of body armor is illegal, in other states it's legal but with a list of caveats and restrictions.

So, when it comes down to it, one has to decide for themselves what they feel they might want/need based on their situation. Body armor can be a useful thing to own, but it isn't the "one size fits all" solution that people often think it is.

From Wikepedia:
'United States law restricts possession of body armor for convicted violent felons. Many U.S. states also have penalties for possession or use of body armor by felons. In other states, such as Kentucky, possession is not prohibited, but probation or parole is denied to a person convicted of committing certain violent crimes while wearing body armor and carrying a deadly weapon. Additionally, some states outlaw the wearing of body armor while committing certain, usually violent, crimes.'
qjs

even if it is legal as outlined by Paul, and Quick Joey...what is your perception of threat?...

for the many people that have asked me to recommend a first handgun, that is the first question I ask them...

do you work for the States Attorney trying a high profile drug case?...

live and work on the southwest border?...

is Grandpa a circuit court judge?....

or are you someone that would enjoy handgun competition as a recreational sport?...

I shoot a lot, but haven't been shot at since 1972 in a land far far away...

I'm just a poor old retired school teacher... you may have other requirements

I say no.

They are hot, add weight, and only cover the upper body. Besides the already stated fact they are not "bullet proof" to all calibers/types of weapons, they are not knife proof.

To me, the worst part is they add a false sense of security. You may do something you wouldn't normally do if you are wearing one.

I've got a flak vest out in the garage. It protects some tools I guess. Never wear, but don't want to toss it.

Make sure that you train with your body armor if you plan to use it. Running, climbing, shooting, and all manner of other tasks are more difficult when wearing body armor. I've chosen to do without.

Ignoring the legal ramifications, and ignoring your job or need for one, but looking at a "crisis situation" such as a natural disaster, riot, ect.. (Let’s just look at a Katrina like event)

One of the key points that a majority of the people on this site (and that I feel is accurate) is that when things go sideways during a natural disaster, you want to be the "grey man" meaning you don't want to attract attention of being over prepared or seem like you have things that others want. You don't necessarily want to be the person with there lights on watching TV on there flat screen TV in there living room when the entire neighborhood has no power and some have lost there house to weather or circumstance. People have a tendency to take notice.

So if it is 100 degrees out and the nature of the environment makes you feel like the vest is necessary the first thing people are going to notice is that you look like the stay-puffed marshmallow man due to your vest, then people may start to wonder is, "what does that person have that they need to protect themselves so much?"

Now if it is mid winter and heavy coats are the nature of the beast, you will just look like you are supper cold.

I am not going to pretend to know al the laws and the legal ramifications of a vest. But I can say that you will draw attention to yourself, and that attention may not be wanted.

This site isn't an "end of the world as we know it" site. From what I have seen most people on this site seem to express that society will return to normal at some point and that things will get back together.

I suppose you could carry around a level III ceramic plate in a backpack, which is designed to take a water pouch but at 6lb weight it would soon become a little tiresome after a while.

http://www.vestguard.co.uk/ballistic-plates/ceramic-level-iii-ballistic-plates.htm

You would also probably need a ballistic helmet as well such as a British Mk6a or Mk7 (Mk6a's can be had for about £40-60)

Who do you expect to be shot at from?

To me, JBMat's point about a false sense of security is also my own argument against your Joe Average prepper getting body armor--just in case. In general, that money is probably better spent elsewhere. Depending on the particular threats envisioned, tactics or other types of preps may ultimately be more effective protection than a vest. Or, put another way, if there were certain situations that I was fearful enough that I would want a vest, then there are likely other preps/planning I should do first, and buying a vest would be one of the last things to do.

Of course, when the rubber meets the road and a bullet is speeding towards your torso, of course I would prefer to be wearing a vest, but we usually have a lot more control over what happens before that moment comes than we think.

I'd rather spend the money on training. Cover is far more comforting than body armor.

They're pretty expensive, and if you needed one, you would probably have it by now.

Sue

In most plans, no. Far too heavy/ expensive to be useful. What are the real odds of a given scenario occurring in your life? Reality, not sexy events. I use a ten year model -- if it happens every decade or more, plan and prepare** If not then don't worry.


( **Likely events
Power/ water outage
storms
hot and cold spells
car breakdown
lost dog)

Unless you live in an area prone to riots, or have trigger happy enemies, it's kinda a waste of space. OK, I'll will admit it's kinda cool in a Walter Mitte'esque way, but I'm not buying one. It's like that old punchline about self defense arguments (That's all good and fine, but what are you doing in a dark alley at 2:00 in the morning?)


Personally, I'd take the $500 dollars that a vest would cost and buy a reliable three season tent, sleeping bag, and lots of instant rice.

They are in a class of things that you hope you never need. Life insurance, PLB’s, defensive firearms, pepper spray and Kevlar fit that bill. They are invaluable if you do. If you never need it you are happy. Most police departments in the US list them as mandatory. A hospital can usually save you if you are not shot in the head, neck or torso.

In extreme weather like golf ball sized hail, a Kevlar helmet and a military vest allowed me to get the stock in.

I have put mine on twice for other reasons. No shots were fired. I am still happy I had it on.

I have sold many of these over the years.

I leave people to sort out 'their' legal issues.... I only offer this from a practical standpoint... Look up bulletproof backpack on the web. I remember a number of suppliers that offered them a number of years ago. They were being offered when there had been a number of 'public' shootings and some people were talking about cover and concealment for 'kids' in particular. Something a 'kid' could hide behind. I'm not sure of the legal standing of owning one as a 'civilian'. But I do know that they do look 'normal' and would provide what looks like a decent amount of protection.

I'm pretty sure you could puchase used body armor for cheap. From what I understand they do have a shelf life though. 5 years maybe? Someone with more knowledge can correct me on this.

It depends on the material and the manufacturer, but I'm told most are around 5 years.

Moisture, like sweat, and UV degrade Kevlar and most other high tech ballistic fabric, I believe. Ceramic SAPI plates probably hold up well over time, as long as they aren't abused. I don't think I would trust the Kevlar in used body armor if I had a choice. You just don't know much strength might have been lost. Unlike a used car, you can't take body armor for a test drive before you buy.

Of course, something is better than nothing, but degraded Kevlar might be worse than nothing if it gives you a false senes of security that increases your chance of getting shot.

Recently there has been a trend to move to more powerful calibers (5.56 NATO standard round being out gunned and out ranged by 100 year old Enfield .303) so even Level III protection is getting past its sell by date. i.e. .338 Magnum Laupa will zip through 30+lb ceramic plated vests @1000 metres.

Trading immobility for dubious protection has to be a very specific scenario question. Good camouflage is very lightweight by comparison. Not being around when the shooting starts is even better, hence the SAS moto, 'Run away, run away, live to fight another day' 30lbs of ceramic plated vest isn't conducive to running away very quickly.

I have no plans to get a bullet-proof vest or equivalent.

I'm having a hard time imagining deploying a bullet-proof vest for self-defense. More specifically, I don't know of any public shooting incident where a victim could have successfully deployed their bullet-proof vest, unless the victim was either (1) wearing the vest already or (2) informed of the attack beforehand. Option 1 is not viable for me personally. For Option 2, I can spend my energy on not being there. Either way, I'd prefer to have the mobility instead of the vest.

I imagine the most likely scenario for successfully using a vest is in a home invasion. Even then, it's hard to imagine me putting on a vest every time I hear a bump in the night. I need to concentrate on many other things, like figuring out what exactly is happening, keeping my kid safe, identifying the intruder, calling the cops, recording the incident, making sure my gun is loaded, being quiet in order to hear, etc. Further, at home, I could set up a stationary barrier that would be quicker, easier, and more effective than a bullet-proof vest.

If your plan is to get shot and have your body armor absorb it, you need a better plan.

If I were ever in a situation where I had to shoot somebody to defend myself, if they didn't go down on the first shot and instead made a kind of "gong" sounding noise, the next shot would be to the head. Even if they didn't go clank when I hit 'em, if they didn't go down from a solid chest hit then a head shot would be coming next. In self defence, you don't shoot to wound. You shoot to incapacitate and stop the attack. If they're still standing, they're not incapacitated.

We shouldn't assume the OP plans on getting into a gun fight or even carrying a weapon. What if it offers an extra piece of mind? There are instances where wearing a vest may not be a bad idea. Unarmed security guards, business owners who make large cash deposits at night, convenience store workers, etc.

There probably is a place for a vest, but I agree that it's pretty low-down on a list. I grew up near LA and as a kid I was enamored with having a surplus flak-vest ... never got one, but that should tell you about the TV news coverage at the time.

Having now lived through Philadelphia, Detroit, and Afghanistan, I can tell you that I've never needed a vest. Sure, mandated to wear, but fortunately didn't use.

while most vests have a 5-year life, I'm sure they last longer if seldom worn. It's the moisture and repeated impacts that affect them - maybe UV too, but I assume most folks wear something over them.

that being said, when you need one, you really NEED it!

The same could be said for wearing a gas mask around town as well. I think the "likely benefit" vs. the cost, weight and hassle of both these items lean towards leaving them out of your daily wardrobe or even your bug out kit. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure I carry lots of stuff that some would scratch their heads in wonder about.

Maybe I just lack imagination, but it's hard for me to think of a disaster situation where I'd wear a vest on a regular basis except a complete, prolonged breakdown of order. I'm more worried about tornadoes, power outages, etc.

I don't think we need to rule out anything, even a bullet-proof vest, but this is really just a matter of priority for me. For the same amount of money, you could get other things that you're far more likely to use. Heck, I need to improve my emergency water supply, and I get thirsty fast!

My guess is that if you might need a vest, you'd probably know already.

DB

That's my thought as well. Good body armor is expensive. Unless you plan on wearing it all the time to get your monies worth, it's pretty low on the priority list for the average person.

I actually own a plate carrier and hard plates, which were a gift from a friend. Yea, they're neat to have. However, I don't even keep them with my bug-out gear. They're heavy, bulky, and annoying to wear with a backpack. At the end of the day, I'd rather carry an extra 15lbs of food and water than 15 pounds of hard armor.

The objective of a bullet proof vest is to prevent stray bullets from killing you in a freak accident.

If you are targetted with a red dot or looking down a dark barrel. Better get out of the line of fire, take cover. Do not depend on the vest to save you.

???

Where i come from, bullet proof vests are used to stop rounds aimed intentionally at one's center of mass; hopefully, the rating of the vest will exceed the strength of the round employed.

i believe in most departments these days, bullet proof vests are worn routinely when on patrol.

They don't always work. Just before I retired, I donated two weeks leave to the widow of a ranger who caught an AK-47 round that sneaked in between the seams of his vest.

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that the soft vests won't stop that round. Even the ceramic plates have gaps where the plates don't overlap, not to mention they can fail w/ repeated hits.

I'm not sure, but I'll bet he had plates. This was on the border at organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. But yes, vests aren't perfect....

Sigh, it's a sad state of affairs when a park ranger has to gear up as if he's on patrol in Afghanistan. RIP

Smugglers, pot grows, meth labs in our national parks? Crazy.

Almost no vests will stop a major caliber rifle round.

If you anticipate getting shot in the torso, then yes, wear one. If not, then no, do not wear one.

If your are still unsure... then place a % to the likelihood that you will be shot at and ask yourself whether or not that is an acceptable risk.

My $0.02

Following up on what CJK said ... you can buy soft armor ballistic pads online. I've got a couple that are about 12 inches square. They're not cheap, but they're also not as expensive as a full armored vest. Just get a couple of the pads and use them to line your backpack. It's unobtrusive. In the event of a hold-up in a disaster zone, you've got some minimal protection if the robber does shoot you with a handgun. Of course, you've got to be able to use your backpack as a shield - if you don't get it off in time - you're dead anyway. With the ballistic pads and the backpack material - it might work against most handgun bullets.

As several people have pointed out - this won't stop a rifle bullet. Use common sense ... which is always the best protection.

Pete2

Wearing a bullet proof vests, DOES NOT mean you can stand still and be a target for someone shoot you with a gun. I would still dive for the nearest cover when shooting starts.

How much do those two pads weigh?

HJ