Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item

Posted by: Frisket

Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 06:27 PM

Ok SO this isnt about your survival kit! This is about the most innovative Item you have in your survival kit!

Is it something that has a billion uses? Does it have only one use but does it like no other? Is it something you havent seen Someone else have in their kit before?


For me is the Resist-A-Band. Although Its much like Surgical Tubing I personally never seen anyone else use one in their kit. Its easier to store then surgical tubing aswell and can be cut up in more ways then just a tube.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 08:41 PM

Sell me on its uses.
Posted by: Frisket

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 09:05 PM

Uhhhh ok..?

Weights nothing and takes up no space,
Slingshot,
Pole spear,
Multiple tourniquet's when cut up,
Can be used to apply tension to certain types of traps,
Sealing up the ends of clothing to prevent creepy crawlies from getting up your pant legs and such,

Cant really figure out much more then that but really it is a 5 foot by 6 inch band of elastic Im sure theres plenty other uses. The fact that it can be used to make multiple tourniquets for its size and weight sells me on it alone personally.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 09:23 PM

It might also make nice black smoke when burned in a signal fire.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 09:31 PM

Mine's probably a large sized blaze orange latex balloon. Signalling (either inflated or in a fire), fishing bobber, carrying water, slingshot, trap cordage, waterproof sock, amusing the kids...

It's either that or my star wars lip balm with detachable lightsabre with LED light, including on/off switch and replacable battery.
Posted by: Alex

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 10:47 PM

The ScotteVest Tactical System V 5.0 is the most innovative piece of EDC gear I ever had. It's a nesting combination of 2 vests with detachable sleeves, which one can accommodate to any kind of weather (0-100F), and which allow to carry a lot of [survival] items (small and large) concealed in it.

They don't make it anymore, but it's a combination of Revolution and Fleece 5.0, zippering one in another.
Posted by: Frisket

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Mine's probably a large sized blaze orange latex balloon.


How blaze orange? Imma add a few to my kit and im thinking real blaze orange is gonna be hard to find in comparison to reg orage.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 11:31 PM

Never seen them until a local craft store had a bag in a clearance bin and I've never seen them again since. I'm always on the lookout for more.
Posted by: Frisket

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/18/11 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Alex
The ScotteVest Tactical System V 5.0 is the most innovative piece of EDC gear I ever had.


And I thought wearing carpenters pants with the 2 sidepockets was "high tech" lol Pretty neat.

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Never seen them until a local craft store had a bag in a clearance bin and I've never seen them again since. I'm always on the lookout for more.


Sad But My best bet is A trained Search and rescue Team will be able to notice other colors specially a blown up balloon moving in the wind. I wonder how easy to find a pack of Neon colored balloons is I mean blaze orange is just neon orange no?
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 12:00 AM

I bet you're right on both counts Frisket! Neon should be easier to find and just as effective!
Posted by: Glock-A-Roo

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 01:10 PM

IMO the best use of tubing in a PSK is to extract water from tight spots that are hard to access: shallow depressions, rock crevices, etc. I know ETS is no fan of the solar still but in the right conditions and with the right methods they can be surprisingly effective, and its nice to access their water via tubing instead of disturbing the still.

Originally Posted By: Frisket
The fact that it can be used to make multiple tourniquets for its size and weight sells me on it alone personally.


Have you researched this? Be careful that your tourniquet fully stops arterial flow. If it stops venous flow and not all arterial flow, you will bleed out faster than if you had not applied the tourniquet.

For improvised tourniquets you are better off with a stick and a rag.
Posted by: Denis

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Originally Posted By: Frisket
The fact that it can be used to make multiple tourniquets for its size and weight sells me on it alone personally.

Have you researched this? Be careful that your tourniquet fully stops arterial flow. If it stops venous flow and not all arterial flow, you will bleed out faster than if you had not applied the tourniquet.

I'm no expert, but when I took my Wilderness First Aid course a few years back the instructor basically said don't use tourniquets period.

My understanding is this is the direction civilian emergency medicine has gone, with the military only still actively recommending / training / using the technique.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 02:38 PM

Like many things in life, emergency medical techniques/procedures seem to have their own cycles of in-vogue/out-of-vogue. Currently, many EMT programs are reintroducing the early application of tourniquets for bleeding control. If direct pressure, elevation and pressure points do not control bleeding very quickly, the advice is to apply a tourniquet early in the process. The usual caveats and rules of tourniquet application still apply.

Pete
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Denis
I'm no expert, but when I took my Wilderness First Aid course a few years back the instructor basically said don't use tourniquets period.

My understanding is this is the direction civilian emergency medicine has gone, with the military only still actively recommending / training / using the technique.


First and foremost, I am not a medical professional.

In December I took a trauma class for firearms instructors. My original post on it is http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=211892&page=all (you'll have to scroll down a bit).

We were trained extensively on tourniquets. Loss of blood is the most common killer of people who could otherwise be saved, and tourniquets are extremely effective in stopping bleeding from extremities.
Posted by: Mark_F

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 04:15 PM

I am not a medical professional either.

Our cub scouts had a first aid class and the instructor talked about using a tourniquet and including it in a first aid kit. I must admit it concerned me a bit that he seemed to be advocating their usage. On the other hand, maybe he thought since he was teaching a group of scouts (I am sure in his mind he assumed cub scouts = boy scouts) that some last resort, life saving wilderness first aid techniques were in order (or maybe he teaches it in ALL his first aid classes -wishing now I had asked him).

It has always been my understanding that a tourniquet is an absolutely worst case, last resort, the person will die if the tourniquet is not used kind of thing. In that context it would be worth including in a kit and learning about in a first aid course.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 04:25 PM

The problem has been that we have drilled into people that a tourniquet is a last resort technique so well that people were/are dying from blood loss that could otherwise be saved through the use of a tourniquet. The CATs and other medical devices that have been developed for the military have been shown to save lives. As the civilian medical community examines statistical information based upon field data and other controlled medical studies, treatment protocols change.

Pete
Posted by: Glock-A-Roo

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 04:25 PM

I am a medical professional. The National Registry of EMTs (NREMT) has everyone from Basic EMTs on up using tourniquets for severe extremity hemmorhage if direct pressure doesn't work first (see the skills check sheet here). The prehospital trauma life support (PHTLS) class has been teaching the same thing for a couple of years now. The military teaches every soldier to apply a tourniquet, even with their evac times being more extended than in civilian EMS.

Don't rely on what the Boy Scouts said 20 years ago when it comes to your medical knowledge.
Posted by: Frisket

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Don't rely on what the Boy Scouts said 20 years ago when it comes to your medical knowledge.


99% of the Boyscouts information is very very outdated. Not to mention most people rely on the cliffnotes the handbook has instead of using the fieldbook which is more suited towards camping and such when the handbook is all about how to act proper.
Posted by: Denis

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 05:12 PM

I need to recertify my Wilderness First Aid (Remote Responder) this year so it will be interesting to see if this has changed.

Then again, since it is a more basic course (similar to Standard First Aid I think), maybe it would be beyond the course's scope in any case?
Posted by: Mark_F

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 06:33 PM

DISCLAIMER: This post is the result of being in the insurance industry for too many years, overthinking possible scenarios, plus a healthy dose of paranoia, heated and stirred frequently.

Unfortunately, there are far too many lawyers and lawsuits in my area of the country. For the average joe like me, being in a situation where I would have to consider whether or not to use a tourniquet is terrifying, almost unthinkable. I am thinking of a scenario of someone getting a really bad cut on the arm or leg and they need immediate medical attention. As I see it, there are 1 of 4 possible outcomes.

The first and best: the bleeding stops with pressure applied, I get the victim to medical attention in a timely manner, no other complications or consequences.

Second outcome: The bleeding doesn't stop with pressure, I apply a tournaquet, save the victims life, but they lose the limb. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet was not necessary and I am screwed.

Third outcome: I don't apply a tourniquet and the victim bleeds out and dies. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet would have saved the victims life and I am screwed.

Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.

Hopefully I am wrong about the last three outcomes. In any event, I like to think that i would have the presence of mind to do what is necessary to save the victim's life without overthinking it too much. In any event, I would certainly hope someone with more training than I have was around (working on that slowly but surely).
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 06:45 PM

Anyone can be sued, does not mean they will win.

Quote:
The first and best: the bleeding stops with pressure applied, I get the victim to medical attention in a timely manner, no other complications or consequences.


That would be great

Quote:
Second outcome: The bleeding doesn't stop with pressure, I apply a tournaquet, save the victims life, but they lose the limb. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet was not necessary and I am screwed.


As long it is within your scope of training and you can explain your use, you should be okay. The pricipal of life over limb would be your lawyer's position and your medical professional's point of view.

Quote:
Third outcome: I don't apply a tourniquet and the victim bleeds out and dies. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet would have saved the victims life and I am screwed.


Possibly, if you had the training and had a duty to perform you might lose, otherwise you should be okay.

Quote:
Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.


Only if you had a duty to perform.

Pete
Posted by: Susan

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 10:13 PM

I suspect the kind of damage that some of the people here are visualizing where they would waffle about using a tourniquet aren't really tourniquet types of damage.

A cut, even a deep one, can often/usually be controlled with pressure. However, an arm that has been ripped off by machinery, or a leg that has been mangled in a car or railroad accident are no-brainers -- a tourniquet is all you can do.

A pair of my regular RR crews ran their train past a man beside the tracks who was waving his arms at them. They stopped the train and ran back to him. He didn't even know that both his legs had been amputated by the previous train. Did they apply tourniquets? You bet your mule they did! Did they save the man's life? Yes, they did.
BNSF crew save's man's life

Something I learned since I started this job: if someone has a limb amputated by a train wheel, APPLY THE TOURNIQUET IMMEDIATELY! Train wheels are several inches wide with a narrow edge on the inside. The flat part of the wheel crushes the tissues, skin and bones, and the edge severs the limb. The crushed part is almost always on the person, and the limb can't be reconnected.


"Anyone can be sued, does not mean they will win."

They don't have to win to ruin you financially. The cost of the battle can be extensive.

Sue
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 10:20 PM

There always seems to have been some disagreement as to what type of injury requires a tourniquet and what might be construed as a flesh wound or even a scratch. whistle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXY9TuuwyL8

Posted by: dweste

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/19/11 11:58 PM

Not sure there is much new under the sun. My PSK and BOB each include an analog, manual [non-electronic] dive compass.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 12:31 AM

[quote=paramedicpete If direct pressure, elevation and pressure points do not control bleeding very quickly, the advice is to apply a tourniquet early in the process.
[/quote]

This was what I was taught, and what I implemented, back in the mid-70s. Direct pressure always worked. This included an arm amputation at the shoulder cause by walking in to the rear rotor of a helicopter. I think we were fortunate there as there wasn't much of a site for the T.

I have always been ready to apply a T if bleeding persisted, but so far it hasn't.....

"The more things change, the more they remain the same."
Posted by: GarlyDog

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 12:46 AM

I use the peanut lighters a little differently for EDC. I have two. One is an intact lighter but no fuel. The other has the lighter removed and is replaced with PJ soaked cotton ball wrapped in aluminium foil. A little tuft of cotton ball is teased through a slit making it a wick. I use the lighter case to hold the burning cotton ball like a permanent match. I do this because I can't seem to keep fuel in these things very long, even without use.
Posted by: MDinana

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_Frantom
Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.

The first three are definetely possibilities.

Unless you're a medical professional, the fourth won't happen. You don't have a duty-to-act. It would be incredibly difficulty to sue someone for going about their own business. Not to mention, if you don't stop, they probably don't know who you are - which makes it kind of tough to sue you.
Posted by: Crookedknife

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 02:44 AM

My whiz-bang item is a pair of folding glasses. I'm practically blind without vision correction, so having a set of spares around is pretty much required. Glasses are an awkward item to fit in a small kit, so I had my prescription installed in a set of optical-quality folding readers. The case is maybe the size of a cellphone. I always take them with me.

The frames are Myspex brand, but I've since found that there are smaller and cheaper options out there. However, my optometrist was impressed at their quality.
Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 12:11 PM

OD mosquito netting.... camouflage, sunshade, fish net, coarse filter media, bandage material, cut/woven for cordage
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 12:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_Frantom
Second outcome: The bleeding doesn't stop with pressure, I apply a tournaquet, save the victims life, but they lose the limb. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet was not necessary and I am screwed.

Third outcome: I don't apply a tourniquet and the victim bleeds out and dies. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet would have saved the victims life and I am screwed.

Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.


As long as I act within the scope of my training, I expect that any lawsuit would be financially survivable. I'm a lot more concerned about living with the knowledge that I didn't do everything I could do to save someone's life.
Posted by: Frisket

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
OD mosquito netting.... camouflage, sunshade, fish net, coarse filter media, bandage material, cut/woven for cordage


Nice Dont Forget melting snow over a cup to collect water. Fill it with snow and hang it over the cup near enough the fire to feel a slight heat but not enough to destroy the netting.
Posted by: LesSnyder

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:12 PM

I don't understand the concept of "snow" is it an acronym? smile
Posted by: Frisket

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:13 PM

Uhhhh no? Was just mentioning somthing i seen on teh ray mears show.
Posted by: TheMountainRn

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Frisket
Uhhhh ok..?

Weights nothing and takes up no space,
Slingshot,
Pole spear,
Multiple tourniquet's when cut up,
Can be used to apply tension to certain types of traps,
Sealing up the ends of clothing to prevent creepy crawlies from getting up your pant legs and such,

Cant really figure out much more then that but really it is a 5 foot by 6 inch band of elastic Im sure theres plenty other uses. The fact that it can be used to make multiple tourniquets for its size and weight sells me on it alone personally.


Can be use to administer fluids rectally
can help access water in difficult place
can be use when use a solar water distiller
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:23 PM

yes. it's real. but sssshhhhh.... you'll remind Mother Nature that it can still snow here through May.
Posted by: TheMountainRn

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:41 PM

Not to familiar with the laws of the US. But it was my understanding that the only place it is mandatory to treat someone was Quebec. Here I Alberta it's not mandatory, by the law. My own ethics wouldn't allow me not to help. As for the danger of getting sued. Getting sued and loosing are 2 things. If you can prove you acted in the benefits of the other person interest and in the limit of your knowledge. Now there a note on that subject. Health care professional, beside if your a MD, outside work you are at the same level as a first aid person. For example as a flight nurse I can intubate, because I have medical direction to do so. Without my flight suit I can intubate " i have the knowledge" but I doubt I would be protected.


As for the tourniquet debate. What the recommend now is:
direct pressure ( no more use of pressure point) and compressing dressing
if still bleed, you can use hemostatic agent ( ex: quick clot)
if bleed continue you can applied a tourniquet. Leave if your less then 2 hour from facility, there amputation or been on more then 6 hours

If it will take more then 2 hours to get to facility
get ready to applied direct pressure and have a hemostatic product ready.
slowly release tension. if you can't manage the bleeding reapplied. LIfe over limb in that case.
Posted by: TheMountainRn

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 03:42 PM

My multi use item would be my water bladder
Posted by: Alex

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 04:55 PM

Just a reminder. We are talking about most innovative item, not just multi use. Let's stick to the topic.
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By: TheMountainRn

As for the tourniquet debate. What the recommend now is:
direct pressure ( no more use of pressure point) and compressing dressing
if still bleed, you can use hemostatic agent ( ex: quick clot)
if bleed continue you can applied a tourniquet. Leave if your less then 2 hour from facility, there amputation or been on more then 6 hours

If it will take more then 2 hours to get to facility
get ready to applied direct pressure and have a hemostatic product ready.
slowly release tension. if you can't manage the bleeding reapplied. LIfe over limb in that case.


I was trained that the TK stays on, period, until you reach definitive care. In that class we were also told that they're saving a lot of limbs even after long TK applications.
Posted by: Roarmeister

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/20/11 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Alex
The ScotteVest Tactical System V 5.0 is the most innovative piece of EDC gear I ever had. It's a nesting combination of 2 vests with detachable sleeves, which one can accommodate to any kind of weather (0-100F), and which allow to carry a lot of [survival] items (small and large) concealed in it.

They don't make it anymore, but it's a combination of Revolution and Fleece 5.0, zippering one in another.


I haven't used the tact vest - I use the normal ScotteVest but have been thinking of buying another one. Very nice piece of equipment clothing.
Posted by: acropolis5

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 04/21/11 12:58 AM

I'm sure I've posted this before, but my whizbang survival item is a large cotton bandanna, orange or yellow, dry HOT ironed and folded to pocket size with the iron, slipped into a sterile Gerber Breast Milk bag and sealed flat. The bag edges are protected with Gorilla tape and about ~40" of flat folded Gorilla tape is attached to the bag. Its a bandage, torniquet, chest wound seal, signal flag, dust mask, repair tape and handkerchief, all in one. I carry at least one on my person and more in my EDC pack. Not original but super useful and it never hurts to repeat old but good advice.
Posted by: Jeff_Web

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 05/15/11 12:57 PM

Oh wow, so many ideas. I thought that water pureficator is the most innovative thing in my kit
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 05/15/11 11:44 PM

Spare contacts. Tiny space - Very useful.
Posted by: DavidEnoch

Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item - 05/16/11 09:37 PM

Ignition pliers are tiny slip joint pliers that weigh almost nothing. In conjunction with a multi tool you can do a lot of jobs that require two tools.