Snake Boots

Does anyone know where in Seattle to buy snake boots, and whether or not there's any difference (other than extra protection) between Justin's snake boots and regular cowboy boots? In other words, will their snake boots fit under my pants legs like regular cowboy boots so no one will know what a coward I am unless I get drunk and tell them?

If you are looking at making a purchase, I would prefer to go with snakeproof gaiters, rather than a specialized pair of rather clunky boots. Personally, I wouldn't bother with either unless I were in serious rattler country.

Here ya go: http://www.turtleskin.com/Hunting-Pants.aspx

Know one need know that you've got a "little something extra" underneath.



HJ

You gotta understand, I am a complete wuss. It's laughable, and I'm the first one to laugh at myself about this. But I figure a pair of snake boots is cheaper than a shrink. Ideally, I'd like to find some whose tops will fit underneath the Wranglers I wear.

Laugh. Call me a total fraud, from the cowboy hat right down to the boots. Say what you will, but do they make snake boots whose diameter isn't any bigger than a pair of regular cowboy boots? I see all kinds of places selling 'em online, but how about in or near Seattle, so I can go try 'em on first?

By the way, how do I know when I'm in serious rattler country, as opposed to when they're just kiddin' around?

p.s.: It gets better. Other than a couple-a dead ones on the highway, I've never even come across one up close. But I think that will be changing, because I'm going to be spending a lot more time east of the Cascades.

Speaking as one who has spent time on the psychiatric couch, $20 - $40 worth of gear can do more good than the medication my doctor prescribes.

Jeanette Isabelle

Maybe I should go the other way and try to make friends with them, like that guy who decided to commune with the grizzlies in Alaska. Wow, there's a plan! I mean, they'd never bite a mellow guy like me right on the face or anything, at least not while I was holding him, stroking his triangular little head, and singing, We Are The World. Right?

Thanks for the ideas. When I was out there last fall, I was clomping around like Frankenstein, and a couple months ago I went to R.E.I. and got a collapsible metal walking stick. Made in Germany, so if those snakes are serious then so am I.

The rock piles are a bit of an issue, because one thing we've been doing is a lot of rock picking (as in about a ton so far) for the garden up here. This is where we've been going. The rocks are unreal.

The boots are just a security blanket until I've run into a few of 'em. I'm not even going to start in on the cougars ...

i remember a lecture i once attended given by a venomous snake expert from usc, and i could possibly come up with the scientific reference for the following: statistically, a snake bite victim is a male, under the age of 25, has tattoos, is bitten on the hand or fingers, and has a blood alcohol content that would get you arrested if driving. as i recall, that's what he said.

remember, the snake will sense you by vibration but will strike at the heat it senses - it will strike at the threat with some accuracy. it'll go for your legs or higher. not your foot-level boot.

in your case, i'll make a stretch here and assume you wear pants with your cowboy boots. the snake's fangs may or may not even pierce the pant fabric - denim is pretty dense material. even if it does pierce the material, it's unlikely the fangs would then pierce your cowboy boot.

if you still have a concern, i agree that gaiters, commonly found in hiking stores, are your answer. impenetrable. and they go on and come off easily.

in my case, the snakes have all seen me and let me know about it by making noise before i ever saw them. and that's how i learned to fly. but that's another story.

Seems to me most of the 'snake boots' were pretty costly. A low cost alternative might be the snake-proof, snake resistant if you tread the fine print. (The large print giveth, the small print taketh away.)

A friend got a set and claims they have saved him. He is a surveyor's helper and time pressures don't allow the sorts of normal behaviors that limit the chances of a bite. He doesn't get to skirt the palmetto thickets that are several feet deep in composting fronds. Thickets that are prime habitat for mice and snakes. He is expected to charge in armed with a machete, for clearing branches out of the way of the beam, and a reflector on a pole.

What he got was a set of OD green plastic gaiters that cover from instep to just below the knee. He claims they had worked but readily admits that while he has seen many snakes, and a few had clearly struck out in his general direction, he has never felt or seen a snake actually bite the gaiters and, even though they are now worn and scratched, there are no marks on them that are clearly a result of a snake bite.

I suspect that the main benefit has been peace of mind. A worthy enough goal and outcome. In that particular case the $20 they cost was likely worth it.

Of course most of us don't have a job that requires us to hardheadedly stomp through prime snake habitat at a near run. Most of the rest of us get by quite well using common sense, taking a little time, poking a walking stick into the rough spots, and generally just being careful.

I read about a rescue climber in canyon territory out west claim similar protective devices were a good investment. Evidently in the rush to get down to people needing rescue he does a lot of stepping off blindly into dark spots where snakes tend to congregate. He claimed that the devices had saved him being bit. More than once snakes had bit the boots/armor, I forget what form the protection took, and he had to manually disengage the fangs.

I think most people can get along without such things but there may be jobs and situations that justify the extra trouble. If I was going to buy protection I would lean more toward the armor gaiters/leggings as they seem to sell for less and allow you to use your normal boots and just supplement them with leggings when the situation call for it.

they just want to be left alone. and i do leave them alone. i'll go out of my way to stay out of their way.


highly overrated. says here

* In California, from 1986 through 1998, exactly two people died from mountain lion attacks, whereas in one year alone, over 4,000 people died in traffic accidents, including 800 pedestrians. This means that your car or someone else's car is ~2,000 times more likely to kill you than is a mountain lion. (A Detailed Calculation gives the ratio as between 1,150 and 4,300.)

* Over 300 people have been killed by domestic dogs in the U.S. between 1979 and the late 1990s. This means that your family dog or your neighbor's dog is ten times more likely to kill you than is a mountain lion and hundreds of time more likely than is a coyote.

if you are lucky enough to see one - you are lucky. i've known many rangers who have spent their careers outdoors and never saw one. they are solitary creatures. and typically you'll never see the one that gets you! cats pounce. consider a rear view mirror.

I would say that by getting a hiking staff you have taken the single most effective step to ward off the buzz tailed critters. Mine always precedes me when walking through dense brush. Be alert and cautious, as has already been pointed out. Pay attention to the temperature. In cold temps, snakes are torpid and sluggish but when it heats up, they become active. In very high temps, snakes will seek shade, while when it is cool, they will seek warmth. That is one reason you often see them flattened on highways

I would be very careful around rock piles, especially if you are moving them; consider that your arms are likely to be at risk as well as your legs. I still think snake proof boots are overkill; a good pair of leather high top boots will offer you good protection against both rocks and snakes.

My encounters with rattlers usually resulted in the snake and me going in different directions, usually rather briskly. On those few occasions where I had to dispatch one, a long handled, round pointed shovel was the most effective instrument; firearms are silly for this purpose.

I lived in Arizona from 1956 to 1985, various locations, primarily Tucson, doing archaeology and a fair amount of SAR, and I did have an encounter or two with rattlesnakes during that time. My SAR unit conducted on the order of 800 or so operations during that period. How many involved rattlesnake bite? NONE. The closet was a gentleman climbing up a rocky face who came face to face with a rattler; he fell and injured himself. Of course,some folks undoubtedly did suffer bites during that period; they apparently did not require any assistance to seek medical help.

While in Tucson, I attended an interesting presentation by a local physician who discussed a series of about fifty cases he had treated. There were two types of patients: 1) very young children, bitten while playing around their homes, often in the face 2) young males always bitten because they were picking up and handling the rattlers.

Snake bite is a possible hazard in the outdoors, but it is minor compared to falls and weather related incidents, like hypothermia. I am not sure it would even make the top ten; for that matter, cougar attacks would be rather far down the list.

You can tell serious rattlesnakes by their horn rim glasses, large book bags, and solemn demeanors. They usually hang out at the library, rather than frat houses.

Carry a walking staff that has some heft to it, and bang it on the ground as you walk. Snakes sense vibration and avoid it unless it sounds like food. A 100+ lb person is danger, not food, rodents are food.

Use the staff to poke around in the rocks until you know there aren't any snakes. Pay attention to what you're doing.

Wear knee-high socks and strap the plastic gaiters (think 'shin guards') over them, put your pants on over them.

The 'warning rattle' is fine for adults, but babies aren't born with rattles and can still bite, and their toxin is more dangerous.

About one-quarter of rattlesnake bites are 'dry', without venom. The snake can apparently control this.

Pay attention to what you're doing, and especially where you put your hands. Don't wear headphones, you need to hear.

Don't worry about making people laugh... the first time your group hears a rattler, your gaiters will immediately become a crucial fashion item. I think they come in denim, too, so match your pants to your gaiters and, as unobservant as most people are, they may not even notice.

And there's nothing so annoying as preparing for something and then not having the problem show up. Some people are born to suffer...

Sue

Hey, something popped into my head. Do they make cougar-skin snake boots? Sounds like a win-win, doesn't it?

Wear snakeskin boots -- maybe they don't eat their own.

Sue

You may want to try The Sportsmans Guide,I saw Snake Boots for sale there,They also sell a few different type of Gaiters too!(I have No Affiliation with Sportsmans Guide)While I'm here,I saw a Lioness with 2 cubs(Mountain Lions)in The Sespe/Lockwood Area of Ventura County,Last August!I saw a lone Male-Mountain Lion in The Frenchmans Flats area of Ventura County,Last November,I watched this one Spray Mark his Territory!I also Play the Lotto,& Haven't won yet!I guess Statistics,are for Lucky People,As They Never have Pertained to Me!Now back to the Snake Boots thread,Baby Rattlesnakes Venom is No more toxic than an Adult Rattlesnake,The difference is Control.The Baby Rattler bites with Full-Auto,due to Lack of Control of the Venom Glands,the adult has control,& rarily Expells,All it has,That said,If I were out Collecting Stones for my Yard in Snake Country,I'd be wearing Gauntlet type gloves,such as Welding Gauntlets,& I'd Definitely NOT be wearing Tony Llamas or other type of "Yee-Haw" Boots as,they lack in the Traction Dept.!If Mr.Rattler show's himself when moving Boulders around,I would like to have traction,to move the heck outa' his way,With Cow patty boots on,It could be Possible to slip/fall on the Snake itself,or within Striking range,Not a Viable Option,IMHO!

Someone told me that if I see a rattler, I should pick up a medium-sized rock at a safe distance, and lob it in an arc toward the snake, which will cause the snake to track it in the air, strike at it, and get crushed.

This seemed like an old wives tale, but I didn't hear it from an old wife.

Personally, if I am at a safe distance, I would just let Mr. Snake alone and go on about my business. But circumstances vary, and if you must do the critter in, a thrown rock is a pretty good tool (not quite as effective as a shovel). You can channel your inner Nolan Ryan.....

Rattlesnakes are pretty good at keeping down the local mice, and mice have probably killed more people as a carrier for infectious diseases (hantavirus etc) than rattlesnakes.

Please explain what is the purpose and justfication of trying to kill a snake just because you seen it? The snake is not going to do you any harm at all if you avoid it from the same safe distance.

Here is an exception to the very good rule of leaving the snake alone:

I was assigned for a project to Chiricahua National Monument, and our (me, wife, 18 mo.old daughter) trailer was sited at an old guest ranch within the park boundaries. We had been there about two weeks and I encountered a large, timber rattler right at my doorstep. I did him in promptly, violating several park regulations, statutes, and policies. I tried a snake load in my 357 first, which was ineffective, and then went to the shovel.

This was a long time ago, and my little girl has made me a grand dad twice over, and , upon reflection, I would do it all over again, just as I did then, but a little faster, and I wouldn't bother with the 357.

That same summer, I encountered several rattlesnakes while hiking in the mountains, and they went on to become grandparents, as far as I was concerned.

thank you for sharing your experience.

i always like to find the science behind the issues.

i actually found that we're both on the right track. a scientific study - blindfolded snakes ? ! - is found here.

seems their vision and heat and smell sense contribute to their dietary intake.

I think I've read somewhere that the majority of snake bites were on the hands and lower arms of 20-something males trying to handle snakes. If true then simply not going out of your way NOT to handle snakes should prevent these incidents.

Now you know another. Partly because I spent sixteen years on the Channel Islands, where they are unknown, but that is counterbalanced by a lot of time in Arizona cougar country, where I did observe mountain lion prints covering my tracks on a trail. I did see lots of Wildcats, though (I am a University of Arizona alumnus).

Where do those Baptist preachers figure in the snake handling data? And speaking of those "rare" cougars, better check these photos. Yikes!

to the right of those photos there's a link to a story about why there are so many in one place at one time.

as those photos were taken at night with a trail camera you'd probably not even know they were there - except for their tracks in the morning.

this is the one i'd worry about:

How about paying drunken young studs to go throw rattlesnakes at the cougars?

here kitty, kitty....

For years I kept a copy of a page from a small town newspaper that had an account of how two local boys, good-ol-boys, got drunk in the woods, found a snake, and did the only logical thing ... decided to play catch with it. Odd thing, and a testament to the tolerance of snakes, is it was only after a couple tosses that the snake tried to bite anyone.

It also says something about country boys that once bit he tossed it to his buddy. Who got bit and tossed it back. Bad enough to be dumb and dumber but taking damage they tend to want to spread it around instead of seeing anyone else hurt. How dumb were they? The first guy bit caught the snake, and got bit again, when it was tossed to him.

That's what ya call country livin'

"Someone told me that if I see a rattler, I should pick up a medium-sized rock at a safe distance, and lob it in an arc toward the snake, which will cause the snake to track it in the air, strike at it, and get crushed."

No-no-no-no-no! That is an old GUYS tale! Right alongside the one where they say that if you have a few beers with the guys while your concrete is starting to set up in the wheelbarrow, all you have to do is add more water and stir briskly.

Old WIVES tales: it's a bad omen if a woman sees an open grave on her wedding day, and if you yawn or cough without covering your mouth, the Devil will jump down your throat and steal your soul.

There IS a difference.

Rattlesnake tossing... that's one I haven't seen yet in the Darwin Awards books...

Sue