Poison in the night.

Sad:
http://blogs.plos.org/speakeasyscience/2010/09/07/poison-in-the-night/

Here is another tragic story involving a running vehicle in a garage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew...motel-room.html

for those of you who camp or might use a tent as a survival shelter this link will take you to a test of camping stoves used to cook or heat in a tent.this is one of the first of many tests done for campers back in the 70's but the results are still valid.
check for other links to more modern Gaz burners

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Monoxide.htm

These sad events should be a reminder that vehicle engines should NEVER be run in an enclosed space, except of course very briefly when required to drive the vehicle in or out.

Most people are aware of the danger of running the car engine in a garage whilst someone is in the garage.
Not everyone realises the risks of a garage attached to living spaces, into which fumes may pass.

Modern vehicles are often fitted with catalyitic converters, this slightly reduces the risk, but only slightly it is still dangerous to run a car engine in an enclosed space.

Portable generators are also a risk, every year people die from useing them indoors, or outside but near enough that fumes enter living areas.

And education too, the sound of the engine running is completely different from the sound of the (electric) fan running after the engine is shut off. I've noticed that some makers do that, the Ford/Mazda's like the escape mentioned do but other makers don't have the fan powered after the engine is shut off, this seems one case where the latter would be advantagous.
I like how the author says it has a "bag" gas tank since the escape is technically an SUV. My SIL had one and the tank was quite small to where the range was pretty limited.

many years ago we had a similar tragic accident involving a family of migrant children... they were sleeping in the back of a truck w/camper, and were using a charcoal fueled hibachi for heat... you may not be able to hear the source of the carbon monoxide

There's something wrong with the story, somewhere, from someone...

"But in the morning, the mother woke up – sick, dizzy, disoriented ... the air itself was wrong. She reached for the phone, 911, calling for help. She went into the garage and there it was, the running car. She turned it off ... threw the keys on the kitchen counter, stumbled into a shower stall to wait for the rescuers."

And...

"But the little girls stayed behind. One lay on the kitchen floor, the other on the carpet in the family room."

The mother waited overnight until there was something wrong with her to check the car. Sorry, but a 12-yr-old can tell if a car is running or not. But she couldn't even bother to check?

She threw the keys on the counter and didn't happen to notice a dead girl on the floor?

She apparently realized there was something wrong with the air, so instead of going outdoors, she got into the shower???

But both working brain cells were cranked into high gear when she tried to dodge the blame.

There's stupid, really stupid, and homicide.

Rest in peace, Amber Wilson and Caitlyn Brondolo.

Sue
(Blast and some of the other members here dislike my coming down hard on stupid parents. They must think all parents are like themselves. Well, here's one of the reason, folks!)

This sort of incident is distressingly common, along with the trick of using a charcoal grill as a heat source. It happens every winter.

I remember when my then FIL, the furnace being down, turned on the gas oven to warm the house. I advised him that that was not a very good idea. CO poisoning is extremely insidious.

I was advsied by the furnace repair man way back when I first owned a house to boil water on the stock as emergency heat.

I also learned how easy it is to fix a furnace just by watching him and repaired it myself the next couple times things broke (old furnace).

check out this link from a bush walking site.scroll down a bit for the part about CO dangers with the photo of the guy in the tent.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_StovesTech.htm#CO

Thanks for posting it. Lots of good information there. I think I pretty much agree with his conclusions about carbon monoxide hazards and camp stoves used in a tent.

I tend to try to work the stove outside or under the edge of the rain fly but when things get cold and nasty I've been known to drag the whole thing inside and take my chances.

I think the CO risk of using a stove in a tent are more theoretical than real. Using a stove in a tent is always risky. You would have to be a fool to think otherwise. So you tend to be more careful to make sure fuel doesn't leak, the heat and flame stay under control and well away from the tent material. And reasonable ventilation comes as a matter of course.

It also has to be noted that cooking for one or two in a camping situation is a short term activity. Most of it is bringing a pot or two of water to a boil. It isn't like you are spending hours shooting for a slow roasted turkey and baked pastry for desert. Most camp cooking is easily over in the smaller part of a half-hour. Which means you can afford to sit there and watch the stove like a hawk. The biggest danger is falling asleep and letting the stove burn or accidentally knocking it over. I generally try to keep the door mostly unzipped so at the first sign of a flare up the whole thing gets tossed outside.

The short term nature of the cooking makes a difference. Even if the stove produces a small amount of CO the cooking is done quickly and the unit gets turned off. Given that tents are not air tight once the stove is off the CO concentrations can only go lower.

This is completely different from the scenario where a vehicles engine is left on or a defective heat plant blows CO into the living space. Those are processes that are adding much higher amounts of CO and doing it for a much longer length of time.

This is the second piece I have read that mentions the critical nature of the burner-pan distance in producing CO, something i will pay a lot more attention too the next time I cook inside a tent. Cooking inside is a bit like solo hiking; it is dangerous, but everyone does it at one time or another, me included. Just be real careful out there.

Ouch.

"This is the second piece I have read that mentions the critical nature of the burner-pan distance in producing CO..."

Anything that gets in the way of complete burning apparently contributes to CO. Sterno says their product doesn't produce CO, but some studies have shown that a wind screen or other barrier around the base will raise CO to dangerous levels.

So, does that mean that if you are burning Sterno in your tent and don't have any air barrier around it (you wouldn't need it), that it burns cleaner? It sounds like that...

Sue