Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths?

The companies (Transoceanic & BP) in charge of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig ban workers from carrying knives. When the rig exploded these people on board had a hard time cutting the lifeboats free as the knive that were supposed to be in the life boats couldn't be found.

More details here.

-Blast

Thanks for posting this Blast.

Thanks for sharing Blast, hopefully this will make it's way up the line to those trying to take away our rights to carry important safety and rescue tools. I've had horses all my life and I've used the wire cutters on my leatherman to cut a piece of old wire caught around a leg on a horse, with a rider on the horse while trail riding, and another time my locking knife to cut a horse down who was in a panic situation when tied. In both cases a person could also have been injured along with the horses, without the tools being carried.

Can't understand the logic. If someone were hellbent on harming others, seems like there would be MANY other things just as good as an edged weapon on an oil rig that could be used. What are they going to do, ban everything that might remotely be misused?

Blast, thanks for posting this.

This drives home the always have a knife mentality. I have to admit that I woudl have voilated that rule, or flat out not taken the job.

I once did have a job where there was a strict "no knife" policy, and I am sorry (well actualy not that sorry) to say that I "stashed" a knife for only true emergencies.

Luckly where I work a SAK in the pocket is not frowned upon and may psk comes to work with me every day.

Not a day goes by that I don't use my knife for something, usually for multiple things. They may be needed for emergencies sometimes, but more likely for routine daily tasks. I couldn't imagine NOT carrying a knife.

“stop the madness” indeed! I can't believe that the foolishness has gone this far. Thanks for the link, Blast.

I agree with Tyber, if the job is in the woods or on the water, no knife, no job for me there!!!!

There are a lot more things on a drilling rig more dangerous than a pocket knife.

I can see the attorneys getting geared up over this one.....

Belt knives up here are more common than ink pens as far as personal carry. My latest one is the Ritter RSK folder (bought a new one with the orange handle, it's a big hit at work), stashed in an old gerber belt sheath on my belt.

I carry at least one daily. On the rare occasion I do forget I seem naked. It's kind of like if you forget your watch you always look at your wrist.
When my neices where younger and we where over if they need a knife they volunteer who had one.
People need to understand it's not the tool it's the person that uses it iresponibly.

Has doug herd about this incedent yet?

This sounds like a great proving ground for the Knive Rights.

HR doesn't need a knife where they work, why do you?

I dunno. I pretty much carried at least one, if not two, knives when I was in the Army, every day. And that was in the rear. I carried a leatherman and a SAK in a holder on my belt. No one ever questioned it, most people had a knife on their belt anyhow. And companies are worried about potentially violent people carrying knives? I know for a fact the Homeless Depot want you to carry a company issued box knife, that almost could cut someone if you weren't careful with it, a full 1/32 of the tip of the blade is exposed - to cut tape I guess.

Stupid companies let stupider people make rules so they can point to having done something on their annual performance review.

Hmmmm....

The life raft would have had TWO knives on it. One in the equipment bag, and one in a sheath attached on the upper tube of the life raft adjacent to the sea painter connection. That knife is a floatable knife and is attached by a lanyard to the sheath. It's almost impossible to leave the knive off the raft when you repack it, because they are attached to the raft.

I wonder if in the panic of boarding the life raft and trying to get away from the fire, the occupants didn't notice it. They don't look like ordinary knives since they have a blunt-tip, somewhat hooked blade.

I'm not arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to carry knives on the rig, but something sounds off in this story.

Tom A.

Tom:

could BP have removed them as part of there "no knife" pollicy? or could someone have removed them when they needed a knife and then not returned it.

I am in total agreement that there seems to be something intresting there. It will be intresting to see what comes of this

Wasn't this fellow in the video clip the Deepwater Horizon's chief electronics technician (a Transocean employee not a BP employee). If I recall correctly wasn't the loss of the Deepwater Horizon Drilling Platform basically due to the failure of the BOP, which was the result of an electronics failure due to a dead battery.

Perhaps it might be worthwhile asking the question of why the workers on the Deep Water Horizon were unaware of the correct lifeboat evacuation procedure rather than trying to blame the Companies no blade weapons policy. This story seems to be more a failure of the correct escape procedure training rather than a corporate knife policy.



The Deep Water Horizon was a Transocean rig and not owned or run by BP.

With most of these types of accidents there is usually a cascade of failures of technical machinery and human incompetence (failed to understand what the design limits of the machinery are) and I suspect the failure of certain individuals to stand up and be counted for not breaching safety standards under the pressure of the management (who in many circumstances don't know what they are doing and don't respect the opinions of less well paid by much more experienced personnel) culture of specified targets which are set by the top of the organisation without regard of the safety standards within the industry. Incompetence from top and a cowardice from the bottom makes for bad situation, the usual story of profit over risk.

Given that the article includes this in reference to the missing knife in the lifeboat kit I think people are grasping at straws to push their political cause. In effect reverse engineering a controversy where it may, or may not, exist.



If and when the facts become clear you may use it to push your cause. Until then it looks like cheap political opportunism. Using this before the facts are known compromises the credibility of the larger argument.

It would also be handy to have a hard copy of Transocean policies and procedures and better define where any policy originated an dhow it was enforced before making wild claims.

The life raft was probably packed in a hard shell container. You just don't go into those to borrow something. You would have to break the retaining straps. Packing the raft without the required equipment would have been a violation of USCG regs and the life raft packing facility would have been negligent. But since the knives are tethered to the actual raft, it's improbable that a packing facility would forget to pack it.

I think it is more of an issue of the panic of the moment and/or improper training of the crew. The knife/knives was probably there, they just didn't recognize it or know where to look for it. But generally they are in a very conspicuous place by design.

Tom A.

I would agree that a knife almost certainly was attached to the life raft, but in the panic of an emergency was likely not recognised or located in time.
Does anyone know what sort of knife was/should have been provided ?
The ones that I have seen dont look much like any common type of pocket knife or kitchen tool.
They consisted of a lightweight stainless steel blade with a rounded end, moulded into an orange handle with a lanyard attached.When stored, the blade was covered with a sheath in similar orange plastic, this being a fairly tight fit so as to be waterproof in storeage.
Those unfamiliar with the equipment would see an orange plastic cylinder, and might consider it to be some type of float or signalling device, not a knife.
These were sold in a yacht chandlers, dont know if those in life rafts on oil rigs are similar or not.

True they don't look like your average knife but normally there is a big placard next to it showing a person severing the sea painter with it.

I see it largely as a failure of adequate training for the crew.

Regards,

Tom A.

Tom,
Would they have packed a shroud cutter/hook knife in the raft? Doesn't look like a knife, safe in a raft, but cuts line quite well.

Conspicuous or not, in a panic you won't see it unless you know where it is before hand. Ever in a hurry to leave the house but can't find something, then it turned out to be under your nose the entire time? And that's not nearly as panicky as trying to get off a oil rig that's about to blow up.

That makes proper evacuation drills so important. Saftey equipment is worthless if people can´t use it in a panic.
A no non-issued knives policy may be result of safety considerations. In an environment with high explosion risk steel tools may be prohibited as the can generate sparks. Tools for working in such environment usually have to be made from special alloys. The tools are quite costly and wear out quickly. So people may not be inclined to buy them on their own budget.

Hello everyone,

I’ve been a long time reader, but have only ever posted once before, so I’m a little nervous but here it goes!

Coming from a military background, I can tell you that I have seen all kinds of high speed equipment…that the average user never trained on! Usually it comes down to the PITA factor of breaking it all down and putting it back in its original container. For example, how often do you see AEDs around and how often do you think employees in those areas actually train on those systems. I’m not talking about just reading a pamphlet or talking about it either. I’m talking about breaking it down, taking a look at all the components, putting it together, placing it on a demonstrator (or mannequin), and running through the whole process including pushing all the buttons (if this can be done without shocking the demonstrator). You will almost never see this and (in my experience) it usually boils down to two things.

1. Time has not been adequately allocated to the training. Remember guys, it’s not like they have nothing to do but train all day. While survival/preparedness is our hobby/passion, and so it just automatically occurs to us to have a mindset that assigns priorities to this type of training, I can almost assure you that the average worker is there to do a job and any training time will most likely be assigned to the practice of those duties (maintenance, equipment proficiency, etc.). It’s not an excuse, simply an explanation as to why (if it is found to be the case) they were not properly trained.

2. Lack of training sets/Expensive equipment. Back to the AED example. I’m not an AED expert, so I apologize ahead of time if I’ve left out any crucial steps or procedures but I’m just using it as an example. Part of that training should include actually adhering the electrodes to the mannequin/demonstrator. However, I bet no one ever does it because this would require peeling off the backing of the adhesive patches and consuming that item. You would have to be willing to replace those items after every training event. How much is that going to cost? How will this training effect the equipment? Will it cause wear and tear that will leave the equipment prone to failure during the moment of need (physical damage due to handling, drain on power source, etc.)? Also, is the equipment in question something that can be used for training and be repackaged in the same manner in which it was found and intended to be used? For example, if you are training on using a fire hose, you can just roll that bad boy back up and it’s good to go, but try getting a little hands on with a mylar space blanket and putting it back in its original packaging/configuration to be used in future operations…it’s not going to happen. This is why training sets are so important in our organization. Don’t keep opening up Israeli Bandages or new tourniquets for training. Keep a few in a bag an keep practicing with those so you get the real deal, hands on training but you don’t have to worry if they get a little tore up and aren’t sterile. They will never be used in the real deal. Now I’m not familiar with life rafts, but I assume that they are expensive. Are they something that can be broken down, gotten into, and repackaged with no loss or degradation to the system if trained with on a regular basis? I would assume not. Was there a training set available for their use?

Now, about the no knife policy... I’m sure you all have experienced this on many occasions, but once you become the guy that’s known for carrying the (knife/flashlight/multitool/whatever), you will get asked for that piece of equipment every five seconds! It’s amazing to me to see people clawing and biting their way through packaging like animals, totally disregarding the years of evolution it took for man to develop the knife for just such purposes. It’s as silly to me as attempting to drink only out of your cupped hands instead of using a cup. You wouldn’t throw that out would you? As for this issue of knives in the workplace, you can sell me on the idea that it would be unsafe to post a strap cutter by the retention line.

This whole rambling post is written under the assumption that the knife policy or lack of training were contributing factors to the loss of life that day. For all we know, they were expertly trained and one of them did have a knife and it just worked out the way it worked out, but I doubt it.

I hope I contributed to the discussion.

I just want to agree with everyone who has said being on the water without a knife is just wrong. Racing sailboats you're a danger to you fellow crew if you don't have a knife with you, and frankly I feel the same duck hunting, fishing, etc. I don't see why an oil rig would be any different.

Very good points Regulator6. I'm the only guy on my floor at work "trained" with the AED. That was three years ago and it never came out of it's box. A refresher course is "under consideration".

Companies loath to spend an extra dime on safety...which is why Doug has such a hard time convincing them to make changes.

I'm trying to track down more information about this through contacts inside these companies. Hopefully someone will tell me something. Thankfully the companies I've worked for have always allowed knives/multitools...or have at least never said anything about the one on my belt.

-Blast

Wasn't that uncomfortable?

I tend to carry my knives on my belt or in my pocket. But I guess your method would be harder to detect.

The only time I don't have at least a SAK is when I enter a government building.

ROTFLMAO!!!
-Blast

I am very curious if the reason for the ban (if it existed) was because someone viewed knives as weapons or if they were included in an all-over "no foreign metals whatsoever on the rig" policy due to explosion hazard.

Maybe insurance companies could be a better target. In my neck of the woods a certain percentage of the staff has to get initial first aid training and refreshers every second year or else the insurance fees will rise. The training is on company time. It´s similar with other safety measures. When higher risk leads to higher fees it seems fair to me.

BTW: We got to use the AED on the mannequin. The first aid trainer has a unit reserved for training sessions.

I know generally speaking, most of, if not all the big company's I worked for, when a ban is in place it usually is because of an incident. A knife for example may have stemmed from several people over the past slipped when cutting something and injured themselves where they were probably flown back to land for further treatment (stitches, etc..) I doubt insurance policy's are responsible, I have worked in many sensitive fields and we were allowed to carry knives until a government agency banned them due to a security threat. My current working environment is very effective with it's policy, they have no problem with knives under a certain length as long as it's kept hidden and used for the job. If you go against any of their safety policies, they and their insurance company will not pay a dime. This gives the employee a Hugh incentive to follow there safety guidelines because the bottom line is if you get hurt and you were not following there safety rules, then you will pay full medical costs. I love this policy and think it should be standard, there is nobody treating you like a child by watching over you every second, they treat you like adults and rely on your good judgment. The bad ones are weeded out very quickly.

In the case of the rig, if I had been on that rig, I would have a knife on me. I doubt they get searched going to and from that rig. It is up to the user to take the risks and if I'm in a position where my life may be in jeopardy if I don't have one, I will carry one or look for another job as well. Their are also loop holes in a lot of policies like carrying a knife, fork and spoon for your lunch. Many do not specify what kind of knife you have to have for cutting the steak you brought for lunch.

In my experience such policies, using insurance, and the threat of nonpayment for injury, to control employees has exactly the opposite effect and profound consequences for employees.

The typical result is a very extensive rulebook which almost nobody understands, but which everyone is well documented as having read and understood. Signing the last page of the policy manual you are issued, effectively swearing you have read and understood it all, and having it files at HR is a handy way of doing this.

Then, on the job, there is a general lax attitude. And management knows that if you examine any incident closely every person near it will have broken at least one of the rules. So the insurance company pays nothing and the insurance rates stay nice and low. In effect it is a return to the good old days when there were no occupational safety rules and if a employee gets injured you turn them out on their ear and pay nothing.

The employees are placed in the bind that if they don't work fast and dirty they get fired for a 'lack of production'. But if there is an accident they don't get protection because their shoes weren't tied in the 'policy approved manner'. Everyone is a sinner so nobody gets saved; if you don't have connections.

I agree with what you say art, this is the first job that I have had this policy. Since working here we've had serveral accidents that the comany had no problem paying for the injuries, there is definitely room for them to abuse the system but we've been fortune that has not happened. Most everybody that works with me loves the policy . I guess its a preference thing and it works great in our environment we have had no incident s where they did nott cover us.

Being in the optical business I use box cutters and screwdrivers. I did more damage to my hands with the screwdrivers last week. When they slip off the glasses your assembling they tend to find your finger.

The "explosive hazard"/spark causing angle was my first thought/question.

I actually doubt that, considering a) there always seems to be some sort of welding going on somewhere on the rig and b) a huge inventory of tools are needed to keep the rig running and I doubt any company would pay the cost of having them all non-sparking.

No luck yet in getting any info from my friends at BP and TransOcean. Seems they don't want to talk about it...

-Blast

I did have the opportunity to visit the DDII (drilling the second relief well) back in June when I was there with the USCG. To tell the truth, I wasn't looking for knives, but spark hazards didn't seem to be a concern. There is plenty of heavy equipment being operated and drill pipe, etc. being moved around and assembled or disassembled.

Of course, conditions undoubtedly change when they hit the oil reserve.

I have analyzed and reviewed a lot of insurance policies. I have never seen one that has a (special, or any, for that matter) exclusion for knives, guns, whatever. if you are referring to worker's compensation, the coverage must follow statutory law (in the US) or USL & Harborworkers/maritime/Jones Act for offshore and those do not exclude knives, etc. So there can be safety reasons, but citing insurance as the reason is bogus.

I agree, i have worked several jobs that are extremely hazardous and much more deadlier than an oil rig and i was never restricted from carrying a knife. I have worked with brass tools in a explosive environment to keep from sparks and also in a suit in a 100 percent nitrogen environment to keep any sparks from generating but i still had my knife on me. This is why i believe the restriction was because of people injuring themselves from their own knives.

I am a bit more cynical than that: I believe such ban are put in place because someone somewhere in the management / human relations complex are afraid workers will hurt each other.

Its standard HR policy, any company I've ever been at the HR policy bans "weapons such as guns, knives, ...". They don't define the difference between tool and weapon (IMHO they are all tools until they are used as a weapon and many other things can be used as a weapon besides the items HR calls weapons).

One thing I didn't think of is jobs like bankers, programmers, etc. that are office related or non blue collar where doing any kind of a repair or assembly that is not in your classification may have a more stringent policy on knives. In my line of work where using my tools is my living, usually HR has policies on knives but it usually is for blades over 5 inches, and until recently, we use to could take them with us all over the flight line at airports, but now we have to get a waver to keep them in our tool boxes and they stay there and you are not allowed to go to and from work with them. But you still have access to them at work and you would have to leave another one in the car. I have left that field of work after over 25 years due to an car related injury from a man who was not medically suppose to be driving and decided one day to take his car out for a spin at a high rate of speed. My new job has been good to me and has a relaxed policy on knives so I've been very fortunate.

The leatherman has long been the staple of the IT worker, no matter if your the tech who actually touches the hardware or the admin/programmer/etc, you always had a leatherman. I carried mine for a years and had a manager who told me he has no problem with it but took his off his belt when one of his friends was let go. He thought HR was looking for a reason to let him go and found out he carried a knife so they made that the reason.