Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot?

Posted by: SwampDonkey

Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 01/31/10 09:03 PM

Hi all,

I need the experience of the ETS Forum members to direct me to the best metal container to convert into a hanging pot for use over a fire. These would be part of 10 Ice Rescue kits I am assembling.

I actually need 2 sizes of pot.

One would be for a pocket kit, it would hold the kit Shelter components (AMK Bivy, Heatsheet, 50' nylon cordage, waterproof matches, firestarter). This container would be app. 2.5" in dia. and 4 to 6 inches tall, think 10oz soup can size.

The second container would be in a fanny pack usually attached to a snowmobile. This container would be larger, app. 6" in dia. and 6 to 8 inches tall, think juice can size.

The problem with soup and juice cans is that they have an inner plastic liner painted on the inside walls. This plastic could be burnt/scraped off but it is difficult and I need to make 10 of these kits.

I have used juice and coffee cans as 'billy cans" for years with no problems but since I am supplying these kits to other people I hate to expose them to the burnt plastic residue.

So does anyone know of a cheap metal container that would make a good hanging pot?

I reviewed this recent ETS Forum Thread about ....a pot and got some excellent ideas.

The difficulty is that many of the products mentioned are not available here in northern Ontario and I am looking for something cheap, like a recycled food container.

I had luck in the past buying stainless steel containers at the Dollar Store but my supply has dried-up for some reason?

Does anyone have experience with metal bottles or fuel cans converted into pots?

Thanks,

Mike
Posted by: Tarzan

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 01/31/10 09:13 PM

This is what I have for my GOOD/GetHome bag http://moosineer.com/MooseMain.asp?Option=Detail&ID=Trangia+Mess+Tins IT has a handle, but hanging would be tricky
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 01/31/10 10:07 PM

The ONLY metal container that I can think of that didn't have pretrochems or paint in it that fits the smaller of the two is cookie tin, the one Royal Dansk uses for their rolled up, chocolate filled fancy ones. Not sure if they'll take the heat though, and you'd have to add a bail.

For the larger one, I've got some kitchen storage cannisters that are that size. 1.7L, stainless steel, fairly inexpesive. Downsides are they thick walled, so heavy and they take a while to get hot, and the lids are glass.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 01/31/10 10:35 PM

For the smaller can, take a look at the 15 oz VanCamps pork & beans can. It is just 1/4" taller and 1/4" wider than a Campbell's soup can, and doesn't appear to have any liner, just bare metal. It might also be just a tad more stable around a fire.

You might also check the dollar stores for their cheapest canned food and see if any of them are liner-free. Cheap sources might skip the liners.

For the larger can, why not a new gallon paint can? It comes with a lid and bail, and they're not excessively expensive.

Sue
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 01/31/10 11:49 PM

Thanks for the thoughts folks and please keep them coming.

Ironraven- The tall cookie tin is a great idea and I have already tested one, seen being used on my old Svea 123R stove here . I just retrieved this can from my garage and unfortunately it has the plastic liner, but it was made in Indonesia not Denmark so I will go cookie shopping tomorrow.

I did some reading on the internet tonight about using cans as cooking pots, the thoughts are mixed concerning the threat of BPA from the plastic can linings.

The stainless steel kitchen canister idea is a good one and I have a couple of these in use in my personal kit now. The trouble is that I live in a small northern town, no cheap containers to be found. I need to travel down south to a flea market type place where there is more of this stuff.

Sue - I will have to check out the bean can idea tomorrow as strangely enough I have no cans in the house?

I remember in one of Mors Kochanski's Booklets that he recommends using an Olive oil can or a Naptha Fuel can as a pot. I will test the Olive Oil idea tomorrow as I have seen cans of the correct size in our local grocery store. Oil and fuel may not require the plastic inner can lining because the product itself may keep the can from rusting?

Mike
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 01/31/10 11:53 PM

Hey Sue I forgot your paint can idea.

I checked out a new empty paint can yeasterday at a local hardware store and there seemed to be a dark coating on the inside; I do not know if it is plastic or a paint-type sealent?

The gallon size were a little large but the quart size would have worked.

Mike
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 12:06 AM

Prince Albert tobacco can? I don't know if these are even available anymore. Some mixtures come in round tins that might work.

I just retrieved a can of "John McCann's Irish Oatmeal", about quart size, that might work. It does not appear to have a plastic lining. Again, I am not sure this brand is currently marketed.
Posted by: nurit

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a - 02/01/10 12:23 AM

John McCann's Steel Cut Irish Oatmeal is still marketed in many stores, at least here in New York.
Posted by: Hike4Fun

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey


So does anyone know of a cheap metal container that would make a good hanging pot?

I had luck in the past buying stainless steel containers at the Dollar Store but my supply has dried-up for some reason?


I have been wrestling with these container issues for myself.

There is always a risk in using equipment designed for one
purpose, but put to another. I would not trust cans for more
than an occasional use at low boiling temperatures.

Maybe you should broaden your survival training and show
how to boil water in a shallow container, in addition to
a hanging billy. Thrift stores and cheap retail outlets are
full of containers, made for high temperature cooking.

Though I prefer a deep billy, a shallow container can be
packed so it is safer, in the event of a fall. This can be
relevant in hilly country, or if on horseback.


Posted by: Susan

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 01:36 AM

What about those large beer can/keg things with the top cut off and filed? I think they're about the size of two beers in one container. Heineken?

I have been keeping an eye out for one, but haven't seen one. I have a neighbor that will empty it for me.

Sue
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 04:21 AM

All good ideas people,

Hikemor/Nurit - I have never seen oatmeal in a tin container, I remember paper sacks, cardboard boxes and maybe a pressboard cylinder? I am not a big fan of oatmeal, but I guess I will be checking it out tomorrow.

Susan - Now beer I am fan of, but it was Heineken Can pots that I read the BPA report on, the ultra-light hiking crowd use these beer cans pots regularly and debate the health risk on the web. Draining them would be fun!

Hike4fun - I agree with you about the flat containers, I have lots of them but I think the tall "billy can" shape would be easier to use in this situation. My current pocket kit is in a flat steel tacklebox, but the items in this new kit would fit in a taller can better. I prefer square or rectangle containers to round ones as I find stuff packs in them better, but there are more round tin containers available.

Mike
Posted by: Tarzan

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 05:39 AM

If you have a Trader Joes anywhere near you, they have the Oatmeal in the tin can. Its about the same size as a one quart paint can with a friction lid. I have been thinking of putting some of these back for emergency food, Oatmeal does take a lot of water to prepare but it is nutritious and filling.

The Trangia container I use will hold an Esbit stove, tabs, emergency blanket, firesteel, and a disposable poncho, Not the most durable piece of kit, but a warm meal after a disaster or catastrophe could be a real morale boost. The wire handle has a plastic coating to insulate against heat and the lid stays on in normal use and carry
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 05:44 AM

Hi Tarzan, no Trader Joes here; but I did find an online Canadian supplier for the Trangia Containers tonight.

Later, Mike
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 05:59 AM

Mike, I don't have suggestions that match your requirements exactly. I assume that you're on a tight budget?

My default tin for 'just in case' kits is the classic Tim Horton's coffee can. No coating AFAIK, one litre capacity, tight fitting plastic lid, and comes with decent camp coffee as a bonus. I recently got some Nabob tins on sale, also one litre size, that have a big sturdy lip inside the top of the can; I could drill a couple of holes in that lip for a bail and still have a sealed can to carry water using the plastic lid. Personally, I'd rather have two of these than one big can.

In my kits, I put a label on the coffee cans that says 'OK to cook in, ' -- just in case somebody else happens to be using it. They taste a trifle metallic when first boiled, so I prefer to discard the first batch of hot water (fine for washing though).

LOL at Sue's suggestion! I've kept a couple of those big Heineken cans for exactly that purpose. If I was going to use them regularly, I'd scrub out the inside with some fine sandpaper or steel wool and then boil the bleep out of them. The coating isn't thick. I'd use the same routine with 'found' cans in a survival scenario, using river sand as abrasive.

Posted by: Hike4Fun

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 07:15 AM

Susan,

Who knows what they coat the inside of beer mini kegs with.
And aluminum containers are cheap to buy.

I admire the re-use and MacGyver creativity; however,
with all the chemicals involved and you are cooking at
high temps, why take a chance.

Lots of workers got sick from working near coal dust,
rock dust, asbestos, cooking oil, lead, mercury, flour, etc.
I think heavy metals are dangerous, and I even avoid tin or
aluminum. All these iron cans are coated with something.

SwampDonkey,
If you are making an Emergency only kit, any of the cans
that might be un-healthy would be OK, if you burn em out.

If this is a regular-use container, I recommend granite
ware with no "warm colors" on the old stuff. Granite ware
teapots, billy pots, bowls, and large cups are cheap and
available, e.g. Walmart camping and cookware sections.

Lighter weight, would be an aluminum pot with teflon,
which is (I think) safe and very easy to keep clean.
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 07:50 AM

Now if someone please could produce a stainless steel hip flask without seams.... Or a similar rectangular stainless steel container, about 1" by 3-4" wide and about 5" tall. I guess that shape is kind of tough to produce from one lump of metal, no seams allowed.


I've been tinkering with a cut-down stainless steel hip flask for my kit. The flask is made of one cut-out bottom profile and a rectangular sheet that is wrapped to the "hip flask" shape, so it has one seam along the bottom and one along its length. The seams are probably welded or soldered. I don't know what kind of stuff the welding/soldering could release when you put that on top of a hot fire... Like plastic liners, it's probably not such a big deal for emergency, one-time-only use, but I still don't like the idea. It will have to do while I search for a better solution.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 01:22 PM

Perhaps you could get some Swedish Trangia Mess kits in your area. In the UK they cost about $20 USD a piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-GHZ-l_tGw

They pretty tough and can be used either with the excellent Brass Military Trangia Burner (which has greater heat output and capacity over the excellent civvy one). It will boil 16oz 0.5 litres of water in around 8-9 minutes. Both pots are designed to also be used over a fire as described in the video. They are pretty neat well thought out compact kits.

Total weight with enough methylated fuel for about 4-5 days use is around 1.2 kg. There is also enough room to keep a drinking cup i.e. a double walled 300ml Snowpeak cup in their as well along with a folding ti-spook and a pot holder and lighter or matches.

Posted by: hikermor

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Tarzan
If you have a Trader Joes anywhere near you, they have the Oatmeal in the tin can. Its about the same size as a one quart paint can with a friction lid. I have been thinking of putting some of these back for emergency food, Oatmeal does take a lot of water to prepare but it is nutritious and filling.


I am sure that is why I purchased my container of oatmeal, which I opened the other day since it had been around a few years. I deemed it time to consume and replace.

To my surprise, when I pried off the lid and punctured the intact aluminum seal just below, the top layer of oatmeal had been compromised, probably by water, changing into some sort of gray muck, which also extended down the sides of the can an inch or two.

Had this been a real emergency, I would probably have tried to salvage some of the interior material, but, playing safe, I just pitched all the contents.

To my surprise, we were only six months past the "Best By" date of 06/2/2009 printed on the base of the can.

I think I will try again with a fresh can. I regularly consume oatmeal. It is nutritious, cheap, and sustaining. Add enough fruits and it is actually tasty.

One other thing. The directions on the can recommend cooking time of 30 minutes - not good in an emergency situation. I understand that in the old days in merrie Scotland, you grabbed a handful of oats,plunged your hand into a mountain brook, and breakfast was served. That's tough! perhaps some of our UK friends can comment further.
Posted by: MostlyHarmless

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 01:50 PM

That Swedish mess kit is just so neat... a bit large, though, for this requirement:

Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey

One would be for a pocket kit, it would hold the kit Shelter components (AMK Bivy, Heatsheet, 50' nylon cordage, waterproof matches, firestarter). This container would be app. 2.5" in dia. and 4 to 6 inches tall, think 10oz soup can size.


These are the though requirements to meet.

A stainless steel water bottle would fit your measurements. Or a hip flask that you cut down (but those come with the wretched seams, not something you'd really like to use on a regular basis).

I am perpetually searching for a pot/container with the "cut down hip flask" form factor, but so far I've had little success. If I can't keep the thickness at or below 1.5-2 inches it won't fit a pocket anyway, so then I may as well toss in a small pot in a backpack.

Now I know there are lunch boxes of any shapes available, but using those for cocking is a really flimsy option. A flat tray about 1.5-2" high is hard to keep level over a fire or stove in the bush and the large surface gives a lot of evaporation.

Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey

The second container would be in a fanny pack usually attached to a snowmobile. This container would be larger, app. 6" in dia. and 6 to 8 inches tall, think juice can size.


This is the easy and fun part... the Swedish Army mess kit shown above is a very good alternative, but there are literally TONS of options for this size. Anything from coffee cans to Trangia stove+wind screen+mess kit combo will more or less fit within those volume/size restrictions.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 02:39 PM

Excellent, now were "Cooking" with the ideas folks!

Doug - I checked the 2 coffee cans I had at the house and both had a plastic liner, but if Tim Horton's are clear then that is great, I can source them in my home town as we have 2 Tim Hortons here, EH.

Susan - you are correct in that this kit is probably just for emergency use and therefore not real a problem what container you use to heat water in. I have used a tin can billy many times and only recently discovered there was a plastic liner in them. I never cared until the Internet told me I should. Our local WalMart has some blue granite ware, can you expand on the "warm colours" concern?

Mostly Harmless - Yes a cutdown SS Water Bottle may work, I just have to find 10 cheap ones. My aluminum ones all have a liner.

Am-Fear_Laith_Mor - 10 Trangia Mess Tin/stove sets would solve the snowmobile kit problem, I will check the Canadian military surplus stores on the internet today.

Thanks everyone and keep your thoughts coming,

Mike

Posted by: Mark_F

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 03:39 PM

Mike,

For the larger size, have you considered the lowly US GI canteen cup? The great part about that is you can find plenty of them used and cheap on evil-bay, as well as a ready supply of pouches for it to go in. Just make sure you get the utility pouches with an actual flap closure. Unfortunately these pouches may not come cheap. Cup in the bottom of the pouch, kit inside the cup inside the pouch, good to go (I have been thinking about one of these for myself). It sounds like you already have a pack for it (the fanny pack you mentioned) but it should still work for you. Not sure how easy it would be to add a bail but shouldn't be too difficult.

The smaller one for the pocket kit is problematic. Nothing I can think of that size other than a soup can. Only other option I can think of is maybe a small metal cup but I don't really know if they make one or not. Pretty sure that they do but I don't have a source. Sorry. Let us know what you come up with.

Standard disclaimer, no affiliations.
Posted by: Matt26

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 04:09 PM

I've had the same problem with the plastic liner issue as well and have discovered that the cans pinapple come in are not lined. The cans also come in several different sizes. If you need something even larger check with some restaurants for the number 10 sized cans. Chinese resturants are a good place.
Posted by: darin

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 09:47 PM

I use a 15 0z bean can then got a plastic lid from a Hersey chocolate syrup can, the type that you puncture with a can opener to reseal the top of the can.I filled it with amazing amount of stuff then wrapped duct tape around it to seal it with extra added, then wrapped some para cord around that. works well for me and won't crush.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 11:38 PM

Well I got busy at work today and did not get a chance to go "can" shopping at the supermarket.

I did have to move away from the fanny pack idea and go to a small, narrow backpack of about 14L capacity as there is just too much stuff to put it it.

My personal pocket shelter kit has 2 cans in it. An AMK Bivy and a Heatsheet are crammed into a Hershey's Chocolate Syrup can (284mL), with some thin nylon cord, a razor blade, and some paper matches, then the plastic top is put on. This can is then wrapped in thin nylon cord, brass snare wire and paracord, secured with electrical tape. This increases the can diameter so now it is a tight fit into a stainless steel can that I found at the dollar store, this can has a lid which is sealed on with electrical tape. So you end up with your shelter supplies contained within 2 small but functional billy cans.

Going to go open some pineapple now to check out the interior of the can!

Later, Mike

Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/01/10 11:46 PM

Hey Matt26,

I just opened a can of Dole pineapple and do not see a plastic type liner but something that looks like galvanized metal? This layer is very thin and easy to scrape off, it feels soft/powdery between my fingers, could it be zinc?

An packaging experts out there?

Mike
Posted by: Hike4Fun

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/02/10 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey


Susan - you are correct in that this kit is probably just for emergency use and therefore not real a problem what container you use to heat water in. I have used a tin can billy many times and only recently discovered there was a plastic liner in them. I never cared until the Internet told me I should. Our local WalMart has some blue granite ware, can you expand on the "warm colours" concern?

Mike


Warm colors red, orange, yellow in glass, pottery, or granite
wear may indicate heavy metals, especially in the old days.
USA manufactures became aware of this danger, and later, so
did foreign manufactures that export to the USA (& Canada).
So recent imports should be safe, no matter what color; but
I would still trust blue or white interior colors more.

The Walmart billies (old blue camping) were my favorite pot
in the kitchen. I could cook 3/4 lb beans in one and
then store it in the refrigerator, perfect. Their new camping
billy is only slightly fatter, much smaller than their stock
pot from the cooking-pans department.

Two warnings on granite wear 1) do not get them supper hot
or cool them super quick (cracking granite-glass) 2) do
not set granite wear container on a inclined surface that
is slick, because the container will slide off.
You can roughen the bottom by sanding or building up a hard
black finish or both.

You said:
I have used a tin can billy many times and only recently discovered there was a plastic liner in them.

That is the problem. Some chemicals do not make you sick
right away, or in a way that you would connect to that
chemical. Heavy metals degrade kidney function but you
may not know it for decades. There are lots of sick
people waiting for a kidney transplant (i.e donor match).

Signing off
Hike4Fun (The other Susan)
Posted by: Matt26

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/02/10 01:51 AM

To be honest I never thought about it. I will tell you that if you leave plain water in the can it will start to rust after a few days. I don't think galvanized steel rusts so maybe it's just some kind of acid etching from the pinapple juice?
Posted by: jshannon

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/02/10 03:26 AM

A Fritos bean dip can is what I have used for years as a pot to boil water. It has a plastic lid that goes with it. Very light and tough. Aluminum and no lining.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/02/10 07:12 AM

If you're worried about can linings, look for cans of food from Eden Organics, as they are said to be the only place that has Bisphenol-A-free cans (that's the stuff in the lining material).

Of course, you could simplify things and just get some large cups.

Sue
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Best Can or Metal Container to convert into a Pot? - 02/02/10 01:48 PM

Mostly Harmless came up with the idea of a SS waterbottle. Last night I used a Dremel tool to cut the top off a 500ml bottle and turned it into a really nice little hanging pot. I am not going to make 10 of these but for my own use this is super.

Susan, it looks like the small container is going to be a commercial SS camping cup, I found a cheaper source for them yesterday.

Mike