Bulk/ Weight of the old hard plastic USGI canteen.

I have a USGI canteen and the stainless steel canteen cup in the A.L.I.C.E. cover and it ,to me is not too bulky or heavy. although i havent been able to experiment with lighter altermatives. The quality is good, although i do not like the resenous gunk the Esbit tabs leave behind on the cup. i have seen and am thinking about getting a soft plastic canteen and was wondering if anyone has been able to use one of these? I will later post my whole military setup BOB. another issue most people have is the 4 pound wool military blanket, too heavy? i think it adds less bulk than a sleeping bag and is more efficient.

Well i bought my first blast match and have never had trouble with it!! i have used it in the freezing cold, rain, snow, and frozen ground. it lit everything i wanted it to, even slightly damp dead grass!

well i hope to get an honest opinion of the equipment in my BOB and a good lighter equivilant (sp?) of the equipment. I do have a relly major budget restraint until 3/15!! so, thanks everyone!!
777

I will be watching this thread intently. I too am concerned about weight issues with DS's BOB. We assembled the items, as detailed in wildman's thread over here

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=192002#Post192002

and lo and behold ... it's too heavy for DS, almost too heavy for me. And it's not even complete yet. Still a lot of components missing. So time to reevaluate and start shaving some pounds here and there. On the BOB, not me.
Unfortunately 777, cutting weight usually costs $$$$. Any budget-minded alternatives would be greatly appreciated for both of us. And DS too.

I know there is GI style soft canteen out there. It was billed to be less bulky, lighter, and not bruise paratroopers who landed on it. A guy I know had one - the issue was that it leaked after repeated hard use. The seam parted and it became useless.

Personally, I ditched the canteens in favor of a camelback. It holds just as much if not more, is easier to carry, fits my water filter, and it handier to drink from.

Four pounds for a sleeping bag is incredibly heavy.Good quality sleeping bags weighing half as much are rated reliably to 20 deg. Granted, they are typically not cheap, but they will repay their outlay many times over when used. A wool blanket is tough, versatile, and if you are not carrying it, the weight isn't that significant. They are far less efficient that a mummy style sleeping bag, the best type to have.

You can save a lot of weight in your canteen, as well. A really great canteen is a recycled Gatorade quart bottle - light and tough. Match it up with a stainless steel GSI cup ($6) or similar size titanium (expensive, but tough and lighter). The standard here is a liter size Nalgene water bottle, so common that it has become a standard module for pack pockets, etc. The GSI cup is specifically designed to slip over the bottom of a Nalgene.

You can fabricate any of several alcohol stoves at negligible cost that will outperform an Esbit tab and not deposit gunk on your cup.

While there is expensive lightweight gear, there are also functional, cheap alternatives that work quite well.

i could never wrap up in a blanket and not have it slip around at nite and leave part of me uncovered.yes i have seen the "how too" posts on Youtube and used a WW2 canvas gizmo with blankets when i was a kid but with a bag you just get inside and your covered all the way around..have you tried Trixo tabs in that stove?

"Ounces turn into pounds and pounds turn into pain."

The weight of water carriers adds up fast when you start to carry more than one.

The Nalgene Oasis canteen is patterned after the classic US military canteen. It is a little more flexible but still weighs a little over 4.5 ounces. IIRC the popular 32-ounce Nalgene Lexan bottles weigh 5 or 6 ounces. Too much dead weight in my book.

The Gatorade bottles are a good, tough, cheap and lighter alternative. I've settled on the 1-liter AquaFina bottle as my canteen of choice. If you cut off the label and the remaining ring from the cap's initial seal, it weighs right at 1 ounce. It is pleny tough and the wid(er) opening is handy.

I hear they even come pre-filled with water...!

The 1 quart Gatoraid bottle is almost exactly the same height and diameter as a Nalgene bottle. A standard coffee can fits over it, so you can always start cheap and see if you like that size and form factor.

Another option, somewhat pricier, are Platypus containers. They are collapsible and take up very little space when empty. They do not leak, even when compressed while stowed within a pack. I am not sure they would resist cactus spines. The one and two liter sizes are the most useful.

I’m putting together a Molle II canteen system; ACU Canteen/Utility Pouch, Nalgene/Black Hawk Coyote Brown Oasis Canteen, Issue SS Canteen Cup, USMC Cup Base, x2 Alcohol Gel Packs, and x12 MicroPur Water Purification Tablets. The Gel fuel packs and MicroPur tablets ride in the side pockets of the ACU Pouch. Also, the Nalgene/Black Hawk Coyote Brown Oasis Canteen threat pattern is compatible with the GI issue NBC ready canteen cap.

Cheers,
W-W

Nothing wrong with a USGI canteen and cup. For day hikes I carry one, sometimes two if the weather is hot. Only one canteen cup to boil up a spot of tea.

A quart or two of water, a couple peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and a couple granola bars for sustenance. A zip-lock sized necessary pouch for odds and ends - sunscreen, chapstick, tiny FAK, etcetera. It all fits into a USGI butt pack with a shoulder strap fitted to carry everything. Strap a jacket or poncho over the top and I'm good to go dawn to dusk. Add a simple bedroll and I'm good for 24 to 36 hours.

I have thought of substituting a semi-collapsible two-quart USGI model I'm familiar with but the difference in weight isn't much and the standard plastic canteens are working pretty well. Two smaller canteens actually helps with rationing. Three-quarters of a canteen out; the same back. If it works out according to plan, half a canteen in reserve.

Way back I even carried an OD green USGI wool blanket. The Florida bugs finally ate holes in the blanket and I switched to a poly-fleece number and a small lightweight tarp, sometimes a small ground cloth. All three together are roughly four pounds but much more flexible than the wool blanket.

Yes, I could save weight on equipment and carry more water with a bladder system. A titanium cup would save an ounce or two. But I'm comfortable and familiar with my present setup for this sort of light hike and that counts for a lot.

Some people seem to take great joy in buying, trying out new equipment, and generally tweaking and changing their system fairly often. I tend to find something that works and then stick with it. Those USGI canteens are better than twenty years old and may outlive me.

One thing I have tried a few hikes is substituting bottles of water for canteens. Three one-liter bottles are about as bulky as two quart canteens. They are nowhere near as tough as the USGI canteens but they take a considerable beating, unlikely to be damaged if they ride inside a pack, and if one leaks I'm still up on quantity. Cheap. But then again I own the plastic canteens and they are working pretty well.

Just a few thoughts.
A gallon of USA water weighs 8.35 pounds while a Canadian water weighs 10 pounds.
I usually estimate a US quart as a litre (0.946352946), or 1,000 grams (2.2 pounds). Water is heavy no matter how you carry it and resupply is a definite must.
Consider the weight of a gallon of water again. If you are supplying all needs from you pack one gallon a day is prohibitive to pack.
This means water treatment usually must be available if you are going for more than a day. The weight of the water soon overides the weight of the containers.

I have carried water in a lot of different ways and they all have advantages as well as disadvantages.
Metal has an advantage as far as heating water right in the container.
Plastic wins on cost.
Weights between plastic and metal are usually comparable. Metal can be a lot thinner than plastic to do the same job.
What you sacrifice for weight saving is usually balanced by what you lose in durability.

Over the years the most common problem I have had has been leaky caps.
This has been far more common than leaking seams or holes. Even the Nalgene bottles are not immune to leaky caps.

Water bags like camel back bladders and bota bags have the advantage of compressing as you empty them.
Air might not weigh much but empty containers still have bulk.

I like carrying a stainless steel thermos (Thermos brand are reasonably light) which lets me carry hot or cold and is usually enough for a day.
1 litre Plastic pop bottles are my next choice based on cost and durability.
In hot weather freezing water in plastic bottles is good. It usually melts just fast enough to supply you with cold water all day.
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Blanket/sleeping bag depends on time of year and the rest of your system.
I find wool too heavy for the pack. Good synthetic bags work for me. If you use the compression sack right you can get them down fairly small.
I have a Woods 5 star that weighs about 5 lbs, but that is far too heavy and bulky of a bag except during deep winter. It almost requires a pack just for it.

I like down for packing but hate it for being vulnerable to wet, so I tend to used medium weight bags filled with Polartech II insulation (or similar).
I find the problem with sleeping pads to be bigger than with the cover though. You need at least 2x as much insulation under you as over you. This is even true if you are sleeping in a hammock or cot.
Air pads risk puncture and compression making them useless.
Ensolite (blue foam) does not compress well so you carry a lot of air in your pack.
It certainly helps to pile leaves and other insulation for a bed but it is not always possible to find dry bedding material.
Hopefully somebody will find a way around this problem.

"A gallon of USA water weighs 8.35 pounds while a Canadian water weighs 10 pounds."

It doesn't make sense to me. There's something I am not getting. Do Canadians use Imperial gallons and therefore a Canadian gallon weighs more? Can you explain?

Canadian Dideuterium monoxide is heavier than the more commonly used Dihydrogen monoxide found in the USA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzLs60ZaNW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYInVraBe7s

Replacing the Canadian Dideuterium monoxide ice with the more cost effective American Dihydrogen monoxide could even be a solution to save the Polar Bears (due to the global warming) as the lighter American Dihydrogen monoxide ice floats better in the Antarctic Ocean meaning that there is more room for each Polar Bear.

Just two weeks ago, I hiked to an overnight destination, 22 miles round trip, and I started out well hydrated (sloshing, really) with 4 liters of water in my pack because I was not sure of the water source at my destination. Total pack weight was about 3 pounds, a tad heavy, but not unreasonable. I was correct in carrying that amount; no supplementary water was available. I returned with one half liter remaining. Conditions for this trip were ideal - cool and pleasant.

I have often gone out in warmer conditions (southern Arizona deserts on SAR operations) carrying 1.5 to 2 gallons of water when I expected to reach a reliable water source by sundown. You carry what you must to survive in the ambient conditions. At least with water your carry weight declines during the excursion.

A poncho liner and a poncho - GI issue- are a good enough substitute for a sleeping bag. Even better is two poncho liners and a poncho.

The leaky cap is or was a real issue for me and i used super glue to glue a sealant into it and i had my full weight on it and no hissing!!

I have an esbit stove i use to boil water in my canteen cup and it works surprisingly quick. i prefer using trioxane because it lights quickly and in a survival situation, that would be alot better. although they are easily ruined due to oxygen exposure. I need to get a military poncho, i will try to with B-day money. I also carry 10 KATADYN MP1 tablets in my canteen holder. so, i can boil or purify any water i find.

I'll bet you would really like a Trangia alcohol stove. They have been standard issue in the Swedish Army for many years - absolutely foolproof and easy to ignite and use. I used one routinely in SAR because of these characteristics.

I just compared trioxane and hexamine/esbit tabs in my esbit and tried to boil 2/3 of a canteen of water in 32 degree temps and neither got the water boiling (i didnt use a wind guard) any way the trioxane left less of a mess and got the water 37 degrees hotter in half the time! i burnt the whole tablet on both and the troixane burnt for 6 min. and the esbit for 11. either way, the trioxane chipped right off and the esbit... real pain! trioxane wins my vote! it even cleaned off some of the soot from the esbit!

Yes, you got it exactly, sorry for wording it so poorly.
That is why the US quart is so close to a litre in size while ours were bigger.
Remember that your moonshiners used to call a quart of whiskey a fifth. That was because the smugglers were buying Canadian whiskey in Imperial gallons but selling it in American quarts that come out very close to one fifth of an Imperial gallon
Now that we have gone metric almost everything is in litres but we still get old measurements made in gallons, quarts and cups and it is one of the things we need to watch out on.
The difference messes up recipes for cooks too if they are not careful.

I agree completely that you take what you need. Since you are talking Arizona a gallon a day seems about right and that was just drinking water when I was there (many years ago now).
What I meant about prohibitive was over several days.
1.5 to 2 US gallons means 12 to 16 lbs of water for each day until you resupply. It adds up pretty fast.
It could make sense caching water on your route if you intend to be in for a few days.
Here where water is easy we usually end up carrying more insulation and other gear instead.