Advanced First Aid kit for Car/Camp

Does anyone know where I can purchase ready First Aid kit to keep in my car? I'm not talking about few bandages, tylenol and some alcohol wipes. I'm talking more in terms of full blown kit with most of the supplies at the finger tips (short of AED and 02 unit). I have a general idea what I would love to have in there but it's too much hassle to go and get everythign seprately. This kit will be used for road emergency treatment, kayaking and boating accidents, capming, hunting and climbing. Yes I know that I would have to get a separate supplies as far as spine injuries go but I'm looking for the most advanced kit I can find.<br><br>Matt

I hope some of the medical professionals will respond to your request, but, for what it is worth, here is the response of a rusty EMT.<br><br>I would argue against your general approach. I have sen "comprehensive" kits advertised, mostly in catalogs catering to SAR units, fire departments, and the like. They are selling to operations with big time budgets, charging prices to match, with the expectation of heavy, constant use.<br><br>For what you are proposing, you will actually need several kits and containers. The kit you take into the backcountry needs to be lightweight, and highly tuned to the likely problems you will encounter. The kayaking kit needs above all to be waterproof. It is simpler to maintaim two separate kits rather than shuffled FA supplies around from trip to trip. I Keep a major kit in the car which is actually bigger than what is in the house. It is heavy on trauma items (thinking car accidents, etc.), and is commensurate with the training and abilities that I possess. I have individual FA kits, including one that I take hiking or biking, about eight ounces of carefuly chosen items. The kit for my ten year old is quite different from the one I carry.<br><br>Far more important than the bandages and meds in the kit is the knowledge and skills in your head, along with your ability to summon medical attention, at least in urban situations. I feel that the kit contents should be consistent with your training and abilities. If this is true, then virtually every kit would be best customized to the person carrying it. Just my opinion.

I know what you are driving at. I'm Certified First Responder with 2 months to go to get my EMT licence. I got enough practice to support my knowledge (Army, Camp work, etc). I keep my head straight and constantly upgrade my skills when it comes to search, recovery and technique. I used to have an industriail first aid kit in my car car that could be separated into two halves. One was design for common emergencies when they other focused more on trauma and burns. It was great because it was small and could have been taking anywhere (remeber what's small for me may be big for you). It was like a PSK in terms of having enough to get you going but not abbundance. Unfortunately when my dad totalled my car that thing disapeared from my trunk and I couldn't replace it any more. After years of kayaking I learned how to keep my things dry so that's not an issue either. And as far as teh money goes. My current job will be more than happy to for over some cash as there is some hope they may benefit from it (just in case).<br><br>MAtt

I will echo what Hikerdon stated. One all-inclusive kit for various activities may not be the best way to go. Look at the contents from a few kits on the web (I can give you web sites if needed) and then make your own kit; it will be much less expensive. Plus you can customize it to your needs. Pete

Various past dicussions have dealt with the importance or lack thereof of medications in a survival FAK. In my personal experience burns have been, by far, the most common injury seen in my outdoor adventures. Would Bacitracin, etc. be a prudent FAK component for more serious burns, second degree or worse ?

Blah Blah Blah...I'm not an EMT, or a Doctor...all those replies and not one answer? Anyway, check out the Adventure Medical Kits line. I have the "Backcountry," and it's great. I paid about $80 for it, has near everything I would ever need, including a nice medical reference book, SAM Splint, burn stuff, and lots of crush proof vials for the very few medicines that aren't included (prescriptions)...all quality products, too. This kit has everything a "civilian" would need, and if it doesn't...there's plenty of room for you to add things. As a matter of fact, I added all the necessary items for survival and made it my PSK. Basically, if you can't sustain someone with the contents of this kit long enough to get to the hospital or wait for the ambulance, they weren't gonna make it anyway. Sorry, it's pretty blunt...but in my experience, it's been the truth. Hope that helps.<br><br>John McIntire

I am glad you are a satisfied customer, but let's just say that not everyone shares your unalloyed affection for this kit as it comes off the shelf.<br><br>My car kit is a bit heavier, with more components, primarily for situations where kit weight in not critical. My climbing, backcountry kit is less than half the weight of the Backcountry, and has served adequately in at least ten significant real world situations, including two fx's.<br><br>I am intrigued by the poster who states that burns are the most common problem he has seen. I have dealt mostly with trauma and fx over the years (50+/- cases). I think this just underscores that personal situations and environments vary, resulting in different hazard profiles. You can take the Adventure Kits as a starting point, but you should adjust the contents to suit your situation. Come to think of it, the container for my hiking kit is an Adventure Kit, but the contents have been completely replaced. At least when I bought mine, the included supplies were only so-so, and definitely overpriced. The container for my car kit is home sewn, based on an NPS Wilderness kit I carried in the 70's, but with a few changes that help it work better in a vertical environment. It is backpackable, but I would carry it only in a SAR situation.

as a doctor, the FAKs I see on sale on the net as 'advanced medical kits' are not really what I would consider advanced as a medical doctor. It is usually more of what a civillian EMT trained or otherwise would be able to use. <br>If you really want a good advanced FAK to suit you, most times you would have to build one yourself. Otherwise most of the 'advanced' kits seem similar to me, some having a few more bandages / medications here and there.<br><br>Take your pick.....

John,<br><br>Yes I got the same (or very similar) thing and it came in on Friday from REI. I just expanded the kit with Ciprio med, some Immodium pills, glucose, penlight, charcoal, stethoscope, space blanket and cervical collar. I increased on the bandages, burn med and antiseptics. I think that guys here kind of misunderstood my original post. But above kit even if little bulky is not so heavy that it couldn't travel with me wherever I want. I took it out this weekend for 40 miles kayak trip and got to use supplies for minor burns, cuts, blisters and small wrist sprain. It fits perfectly in my kayak, under car seat, in extra space in my sleeping bag cover. I'm confident enough that this kit will and can keep me alive as well as people that I would treat long enough until I can get them to the hospital or ambulance arrives. I'm not going to be performing brain surgeries outdoors but treat basic trauma and obvious injuries. I would love to have a KED device, oxygen tank and defibrillator but that’s impossible. If you have a cardiac arrest when I'm there or suffer an open fracture, your chances of survival with my expanded kit and skills are better that if anyone wasn't there. There is no substitute for skills but supplies will make your life easier. A lot of times things go untreated because first aid kit is not there. People call 911 for non breathing people but when ambulance gets there it's too late. All it took was basic Rescue Breathing or CPR to keep the oxygen flowing but it wasn't done because safety barrier wasn’t there. Nobody in the world could be forced to help a fellow person even if you know the skills. Most of the people who know the skill will not perform it because body substance insulation equipment (BSI) (face mask, gloves) is not there. I personally wouldn't do it either when BSI equipment is absent. Good EMT will always have stuff in his car and he is ready to help all the time. But regular Joe won't. Since I got my CPR card I always have a set of gloves and mask on me. Hopefully I will join the EMT ranks very very soon. But until that time and regardless what will happen in the future I will always have something on me (besides basic stuff) that would help people on my way to my destination. Most of the time they will be my friends or friends of the friends during our outings, sometimes it may be a random person but at the end as long as I’m prepared I have a piece of mind that I’m covered just in case. Plus I’m always reevaluating and upgrading my skills.<br><br>Matt<br>

You are doing right by keeping your "stuff" handy. I went for a bike ride yesterday and encountered a rider who had an unfortunate encounter with a car - banged up and dirty, but otherwise OK. A passing EMT had already stopped and was doing a very effective assessment by the time I arrived. <br><br>In most of the emergency scenes I have encountered, there has almost always been at least one additional medical professional on scene, usually a nurse or doctor. But you rarely have too much expertise, or equipment.

If you are simply going to carry a kit in the car, think in terms of airway, breathing, and circulation. Not fracture or spinal immobilization. Anything that you apply (splints, etc) is lost when the patient is loaded in an ambulance. A delay of 5 or even 30 minutes in splint application to someone stretched out on the ground following an MVA is insignificant (IMHO).<br><br>I think that you can assemble a far more suitable kit for your own purposes than you can purchase commercially.<br>Don't know about the other MD's on the list, but I would not bother with charcoal. It interferes with other treatments in certain overdoses, is a tremendous mess, and largely ineffective.<br><br>The kit that I carry in my truck REQUIRES a truck to carry it, almost. I do think that you could assemble a multi-purpose waterproof kit that is not excessively heavy or bulky if you stick to basics and don't get distracted.<br><br><br>

Sounds like a well established kit, Polak187. What exactly is charcoal used for, though? I've heard it can be dangerous if you don't know how/when to use it. And Ciprio, is that the antibiotic popularized by the Antrax attacks?<br><br>Dr. Anderson, I keep my modified Adventure Medical Kit inside of a large zip-loc bag, which keeps it water-proof for the most part.<br><br>This is what I added to my AMK to make it my Personal Survival Kit:<br>-Buck Crosslock Hunter<br>-Pocket Chainsaw<br>-50 NATO lifeboat matches<br>-50 feet of 550 paracord<br>-Signal mirror<br>-Mini Fox 40 whistle<br>-Knot-tying card<br>-Brunton 9210 compass<br>-Topo & Political map of Missouri<br>-50 Potable Aqua tablets<br>-Tacoma Mountain Resuce Shelter<br>-24 feet Duct tape<br>-Sparklite with 12 pieces of tinder<br>-Bic lighter<br>-Snare wire<br>-24 piece fishing kit w/ gaff<br>-Inova X5 Tactical LED light w/ spare batteries<br>-2 large clear trash bags<br>-3 feet surgical tubing<br>-3 feet HD aluminum foil<br>-30 Vicodin tablets<br>-30 5mg Vailium tablets (Diazepam)<br>-4 Camel Special Lights cigarettes (Can't help it!)<br><br>This is my PSK, I do not opt for the whole "Altoids Tin" thing...although it's a great idea. In my line of work, as well as, to and from school...this kit is easily thrown in my backseat or my backpack. I'm in the process of taking pictures of the kit and listing the full contents as we speak, and I will post it ASAP.<br><br>John McIntire

Hey John,<br><br>Activated liquid charcoal is used for emergency poisoning situations. It is also used (in tablet form) with stomach pains and to regulate mild stomach problems. I don't know if Ciprio is popularized by Antrax attacks but I've always had a current supply since the day I started climbing. It's a general antibiotic that can be used to treat variety of symptoms. <br><br>Matt

John, were you kidding.. or do you really pack 30 5mg. Valium? If you do, why? What would you use Valium tablets for in a medical or survival emergency?

Matt, Thanks for the info.<br><br>NAro, yes I do pack 30 5mg Valium tablets...basically beacuse I have the extra room, but more importantly because some people are prone to anxiety, or "panic attacks" when faced with shock and injuries. I just consider it a good addition to my kit, and I use it with extreme discretion only to my family members or friends.<br><br>John McIntire

I would not administer a controlled substance to anyone other than for whom and the reason it was prescribed, especially friends and never to someone in biological shock. Without the medical knowledge of what medications to which the individual maybe allergic, current medications which might have adverse interactions and the ability of being to reverse with an antagonist drug, you are playing with fire. Giving someone this drug to "calm them down" or reduce panic attacks, during a crisis, is not in my opinion justified. I have talked many individuals down from panic attacks and other psychological disorders enough to be able to treat them and transport to the hospital without medications. We reserve this medication for sustained seizures and to conduct medical procedures such as cardoversion or cardiac pacing in a conscious patient. We also have a medication to reverse the effects if needed. I would want individuals in an emergency situation to be able focus on the problem at hand, with a clear head. Just my opinion - Pete

Let me rephrase my post, my girlfriend is prescribed Valium for her infrequent panic attacks because Xanax pretty well knocks her on her butt, and is useless for the whole day. (LOL) I was also prescribed Valium when it was thought I had Multiple Sclerosis (diagnosis still not given, leading towards BP Vertigo), which led to anxiety. I originally didn't want to say anything about her, or me...but she doesn't read these. In my experience, it has proven very usefull in situations where anxiety is involved, and would never give it to someone to whom it wasn't prescribed. I just wanted to clear this up so you all don't think I'm handing out drugs like Halloween candy. Thanks for your opinion and input Pete.<br><br>John McIntire

John: Why not just say that you and/or someone you commonly travel with has a prescription and that you would not recommend carrying it as a "general purpose" fix? <br><br>I don't know what the law is in the US, but in Canada there are fairly serious consequences to giving out prescription drugs without medical authorization - more so if you cause an adverse reaction, especially one resulting in death. One should always carry an ample supply of prescription meds, if you or someone in your party have a prescription for them. Other prescription drugs that you carry should only be administered if you can get a doctor (even by radio or cellular phone) to authorize you.

In the US as long as you don't overextend yourself in terms of providing care you are good to go. If you do everything you could withing the scope of practice and skills, you are fine. If there are no negligence on your part you are also fine. This will also apply to private people as well as EMTs (not on duty) under good Samaritan Law. But giving prescription drugs to a stranger would be considered a distribution of controlled substance, endangerment, murder atempt and maybe accessory to the murder. As an EMT you can help administer prescriptions after consulting on-line medical direction. <br><br>But I don't think that John goes around and gives Valium to everyone who has a bad day. He has a loved one and him to take care of and keeps it there just in case. Sometimes even I wish I had Valium in my kit so I can calm down nervous hikers who lost their and begin to panic. There is nothing worst than leading hyper person down the slope who clinges and makes sudden moves which can bring me and him/her down any minute. <br><br>Matt

Gotta chime in here and agree with paramedicpete. If someone is carrying prescription medication for their own appropriate use, that's not my issue (though the use of any benzodiazapine for treating panic attacks is a whole different topic..I'll spare you!)<br>There are some emergency situations in which physiological symptoms of anxiety are appropriate and functional! I'd rather see (for instance) some rapid breathing and heart pounding than suppress those functions with any drug. Panic/anxiety per-se are miserable, but not emergencies. It is very unusual for a panic attack to last more than 15 to 30 minutes. In fact, if symptoms lasted longer than that I would be concerned that what is really going on is some other true emergency (causing respiratory distress) and would not want to have masked that finding. On the other hand, I can think of no psychiatric/psychological symptom for which ORAL medication is appropriate in an actual emergency.<br><br>I wish we in the forum had split our dialog into PSK-as-in-emergency-survival-stuff vs another kit of comfort and convenience items. Then I wouldn't disagree so much with the Valium, threads.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But I don't think that John goes around and gives Valium to everyone who has a bad day. He has a loved one and him to take care of and keeps it there just in case.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Thanks, Matt...couldn't have said it better myself. NAro, chill...I was posting MY PSK, not giving you (or others) recommendations on theirs. Furthermore, benzodiazapine has worked great for us, just like the doctor ordered.<br><br>John McIntire

John: point well taken. I didn't mean to flame at anyone, and hope you didn't take offense. I should have just posted the second paragraph. ("There are some emergency situations...") as my opinion about the general notion of valium in a PSK... not as a criticism of your personal choices. <br><br> I re-read your initial post, and you weren't asking for opinions. Shouldn't have offered one. Sorry.<br>