Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent

Am I crazy? I don't carry a res-q-me, I don't have a lifehammer in my car, my seat belts are typical and I have power windows. I've looked at devices like Res-Q-Me for years (who remembers that knife with the spring loaded glass breaking punch in the end of it?) and thought, why do I need to carry one of those? I carry either a locking folder (One of two benchmades, or a spyderco atlantic salt), a Leatherman skeletool, or both. When I say I carry, I mean I swim with the Atlantic Salt and I run with the skeletool, I pretty much always have some blade on me. I've had nightmares where I don't have a knife, seriously. I think that as my car is up side down and sinking towards the muddy bottom of a river I'm a lot more likely to instinctively reach for a knife I use several times a day and cut my seat belt, and smash a window, then I am to remember some device I've clipped under my seat or on my keychain and haven't touched in 2 years.

What do you think? Will a skeletool or locking folder get the job done as well as a purpose built device while saving me money and weight carried everyday?

I'm not saying those devices are junk, they're great for people who aren't like me, and a lifehammer would be perfect for say my brother, install it in his car and it is there for him, but I don't think I need one

I'd still carry something in the car. Your knife works, you're right. It doesn't work and your not around anymore? I would think after I tried my knife and said "Oh crap, that didn't work, what else can I do"? that you would then remember where you placed it. As far as placing it there 2 years ago, like all SAFETY equipment, you should check it at specified intervals to make sure that it is functioning properly. The more you check it, the more you will remember its there. And remember, safety in redundancy....

Ultimately it's your call. Knowing ahead of time and not carrying something when around water, for some people that would be like letting someone who has had too much to drink give you a ride home.

my .02

Appreciated. I'm around water all the time...in it, on it, driving over it. I agree it'd be better if I checked my safety equipment regularly, and you're right it wouldn't hurt to have it in my car, but it is already so full of other "just in case" items, at some point I feel I've got so much "just in case" gear I can't bring the stuff I need for a weekend away, etc.

How about the Ring that suspends the seat belt over your shoulder? Cant imagine anything else hanging from that spot.

You're wearing me down...

I may give that a whirl, but I'm concerned about rattle, perhaps an elastic.

Do you assume you will always be conscious and physically able to deploy your safety gear? Should you make it easy for someone riding with you to save your life? What of someone to whom you loan your vehicle?

Have you tried shattering glass with a leatherman? I haven’t, but I know shattering glass isn’t that easy.

Let say you upside down. Have you tried cutting a seatbelt under tension without any play against your body. Hook/safety style seatbelt cutters can be used safely. A folder creates stab and slice hazards.

Can you reach you tools easily after a collision? Belt/pocket carry is not the same as having the proper tools mounted on the right place in your car.

A lifehammer or resqme is cheap, high effective, if mounted correctly; easy to reach, find and cannot be forgotten.

My 2 cents, based on what I've learned here and elsewhere:

If anything makes it difficult or even impossible to use your knife, then what are you going to do?

Funny enough you mention this....

Borrowing my dads truck this week, I see he has a Res-Q-Me type orange escape device tucked into his map pocket on his driver side door. I decided to see how long it would take me to pull it out and use it.

I can't get it out of the pocket under 30 seconds b/c he left it on the plastic holder and its getting stuck on something. So I took the holder off and put the hammer back in the pocket.

I have an orange folding knife in my car. It has a seat belt cutter on one end and the on the butt cap is a stud to break a window out. Thinking about going to the junk yard and asking if I can punch out a window with it for a test.

"car in the water" scenarios are dramatic and not very likely. Personally, I prepare for things that happen frequently: storms, minor accidents, delays, etc.

The questions I would have are:

1) where do you keep your knife on your body?
2) how confidant are you that your going to be the one rescuing yourself?
3) what about layers of clothing.

If youkeep your knife like I do, in your front pants pocket and your leatherman on your belt, there a a very good chance you won't be able to get to the knife easly. The stabing and cutting potential is very much there. (think Will Smith I Am Legend sceene where he is upside down and has to cut the line)

Also think about the winter, your wearing an over coat.it is long. is ther a knife in the coat too?

I won't call you crazy for not having these tools, most call me nuts in the first place. But I will strongly sugest that you may wish to have a single purpose tool for this scenario that is not in your pocket and not on your first layer of clothing. Also think about opening up your knife with gloved hands.

I know that when winter comes around I always add a sheeth knife so that I can use my gloved hands to get to a knife.

Just my two cents.

Go to a junkyard. Try to break a window with a leatherman. Come back with your report. I think you'll add a "punch" device to your list right quick. Put it on your keychain, that's a good place for it. That's a major EDC item for ANYONE - we all drive near water at some point.

Stop by a local fire company and ask if they have any junk cars around back that they plan to use for extrication drills. Ask if you can punch a window when they train. They will say "yes" in most cases.

I don't mean for this to sound like I am being a "wise guy", but what's wrong with just operating the buckle on the seatbelt?
Is there something I am missing?... does the seatbelt buckle "lock out" (become inoperable) when a car crashes or goes into the water?

Is there a high probability that the belt will need to be cut, or can it usually be released by pressing the buckle?

I think as long as you've decided it's not for you, then so be it. We're not your mom. We don't now your personal situation.

Personally, I don't sweat it. I drive a bridge to/from work every day, only about 40 feet up. I'll probably survive a crash just fine. I'll get out. I have a knife like you. If not, well, I've never NOT seen a belt unbuckle, despite numerous car accidents that I've responded to. Worst case scenario? I pull out my car keys and use them, or the POS knife on them, to cut free.

As for car crashes and fire, again, not a very realistic threat. Most cars don't catch fire, blow up, etc.

By all means, if you've got the cash and inclination, buy one. Me, I'd rather not.

Usually when a car is in an accident the rescuers will just cut the belt up high where they can easily see/reach in, espically if the door can't be opened.

Also seatbelts are designed to stretch some to absorb the impact and the pressure on the latch can cause it to jam. I've read that it was a tradeoff in design, to make the metal buckle stronger to where it doesn't deform some in an accident it would need to be a lot thicker and heavier and harder to latch/unlatch so it would discourage use.

If you want to use a folding knife to go through the window of your car ... get a hold of one of the AK-47 folding knives from Cold Steel. Seriously. Checkout their web site at www.coldsteel.com and take a careful look at the AK-47 under the folding knives section. Note in particular the reinforced back end of the knife (opposite end from the blade). That design is no accident - it will serve you well if you need to break glass or discourage someone from punching your face.

Pete

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback guys. The AK47 does look nice, but I already have 3 pretty nice folders. It also struck me that my surefire E1B has a slightly crenulated bezel that might break glass in a pinch.

Thanks again!

i think you'll find the crenelated bezel on most flashlights are not really up to the task of breaking unless you can somehow focus the impact force onto a single "tooth" on the bezel. And that's pretty hard to do under ideal circumstances, much less when you might be constricted in movements in a crash.

if you are serious about breaking car windows in a hurry, a single purpose tool would be best.

Not sure why people think there keys or knifes will through temperate glass... You need either a lot of mass and energy or a special windows punch. The little steel cone makes a LOT of difference.

How is the tip of a center punch much different than the tip of a knife?

I'd be cautious about using keys or a knife blade. You'd have to hit keys awfully hard into the window - with a risk of hurting your hand as well. I'd be worried that a knife blade would tend to skate across the smooth surface of the window glass.

You need an impact tool:
* Center punch.
* Impact end of the AK-47 knife.
* A small hammer, where one end of the hammer anvil comes down to a cone (e.g. a small rock hammer).

Pete

As for the science part, i'm not really sure. I guess the little cone is more effective because it concentrates the force more effectively.

But from experians, sharp things are not created equilly. So i have the same suggestion as Martin. Try it out and see the diffrence yourself.

It doesn't bend or break off and it doesn't slip and skip across the surface of the glass and then stick in your leg.

The tempered safety glass used in vehicle side windows is engineered to withstand large force spread over wide areas, but is easily defeated by even moderate force applied to a pinpoint area. I have seen side windows broken in by rocks, hammers and knife butts, but it always takes MUCH more force than you would expect. I've even watched a guy in a fit of road rage punch through a side window, but I think it was a very lucky shot and he broke several bones in his hand. Conversely, I've seen cops beat on windows with their nightsticks and do nothing more than fracture their wrist, and suspects locked in patrol cars kick at windows with no effect.

The problem with using a knife blade is that you're holding it on the handle, far behind its center of mass and fulcrum point, which makes it impossible to control once the tip meets the smooth resistance of the glass. This translates into the blade twisting in your hand and the force is deflected off the glass, and as NobodySpecial notes, possibly into your leg. You would be better off using the butt-end of the knife, but you would need to use a lot of force.

With a punch you can hold it so only an inch or so extends beyond your grip. Because you are gripping the punch on the inside of its center of mass and fulcrum point, the punch doesn't deflect and the direction of force is perpendicular to the glass. The conical tip then concentrates that force to a pinpoint area, making it easier to break the tempered glass than the wider knife butt.

Robert your question has made me think of my own situation.

I keep a Res-Q-Me on the steering column of both my work and personal vehicles, they are cheap and it just makes good sence to me. My knives and multi-tool are all located at the sides of my waist, not easy to access when sitting in the drivers seat.

On my work truck key-ring I have a red Fox 40 whistle, it is there to help me tell this key ring from my 3 others (work, personal, youth organization) and to add some colour to my keys in case I drop them in the bush/snow. In 7 years I have never used this whistle as a whistle, maybe I should replace it with a bright coloured Res-Q-Me for use on other vehicles when I am outside of my vehicle? I do carry a second whistle but it is sealed (therefore not as accessable) in my PSK. Thoughts?

Mike

I mentioned on a similar thread that it is not always about self rescue.
If you are at an accident scene one of these small tools on the windshield visor or key chain might save somebody else.
Sometimes you break windows to get into cars instead of out of them.

Mike, you know that as soon as you get rid of the whistle you will start wanting it.

By chance I went to the main ETS page today and found the answer to my window punch/whistle problem there.

Doug has recently posted a story about 3 college students who perished when trapped inside a submerged car.

Shown was a resque tool called the Houdini Automotive Escape Tool which combines a window punch, seatbelt cutter, whistle and LED flashlight all in one small unit, sounds just like what I was looking for.

Now I just have to find a source in Canada.

Mike

Anyone know of any follow-up reports on exactly what may have happened there? Apparently a couple of them had time to at least dial their cell phones...

Sound like they would have had plenty of time , if they had known what to do and if they had a way to break the windows, or even presence of mind to roll down the windows before the electrical system shorted out.


It just shows the importance of playing these scenarios out in your head, seatbelts, windows, children , out, at least it will give you some idea of what to do and possibly prevent panic.

The post about those girls is what made me start this thread.

Those girls went into water right? I am curious to know how I'd react in that situation. I like to think of myself as comfortable in the water and I like to think I'd have the presence of mind to either roll down a window, smash it, or go to and air space and wait for pressure to equalize such that I can open a door, but who knows. I have done a bit of scuba diving which might prepare me a bit, but I don't feel any amount of familiarity with the water can assure me that I wouldn't panic.

A couple notes: I wouldn't plan on opening a blade to smash the window. I imagine just using the knuckled top part of the skeletool to do the smashing. This probably wouldn't work as well with a folder.

I'm going to see if I can find a car to try it on. If I do I'll wear a heavy leather glove and use my left (weak) hand from the drivers seat. In a real emergency I might cut my hand, but a ruined hand is something I'm willing to risk in the name of not dying. After all I'm going to sacrifice my left arm if I ever get attacked by a dog!

Also, I did once flip an "oddessy" (think go-cart on steroids) over in a ditch. I believe I was able to free myself, though a boot did get stuck which freaked me out a bit. I was also maybe 14, thus a bit smaller.

I will just 'punch" out the window with my Kel-Tec if my Gerber doesn't work.

Discovery ran a Mythbusters marathon over the holidays. Rewatching the underwater car episode, I noted some things:

Adam could open the door if he did it VERY soon after hitting the water. When he waited and attempted to open the door after it was partially under water, he ran out of air before pressure equalized to where he could open the door (and had to get the regulator Jaime was holding for him in the car).

In a later test, he waited and ventilated while the cabin filled, and was easily able to hold his breath long enough after the water rose past his head for the pressure to equalize and allow him to open the door.

An electric window operated under water for more than 45 minutes. But when they piled enough weight on the window to simulate the pressure of water outside an air-filled car, it jammed and wouldn't move.

Manual window crank failed completely under the same load.

Putting a door in a water tank, and reaching in with just his hand and forearm in the water, Adam was not able to strike the window hard enough to break it with a cell phone or with keys. Even after climbing in the tank, he was not able to kick it hard enough to break it even with a steel-toed shoe. This struck me as the most important thing in the whole show. Even partial submergence in water impeded his motion significantly.

A Life Hammer broke the window on the first strike, under the same "hand and forearm only in the water" condition, as did a center punch (identical function to a Res-Q-Me).


If you go in the water, you better have a specialized tool for breaking that window. If the water inside gets high enough while you unbelt yourself and possibly others in the car, you may not be able to break it with an improvised tool.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go practice finding the awl on my Leatherman with my eyes closed. Just in case I can't get my Res-Q-Me OR my Life Hammer.

Without having seen the episode, I wouldn't expect either of those to be good tools for breaking glass, regardless of whether you are underwater. Did they do any above-water control tests?

It sounds to me as though it would be better to break the window first, and unbelt yourself and others afterwards.

If I had a Ritter Grip with me, I'd try using it closed. There's a steel angle at end of the thumb-ridges which looks like it would be enough of a point, while still being strong and hard enough, and with much less risk of cutting something.

Mythbusters episode rundown here as posted in another thread

My concern with using a hammer or knife to break a window in a vehicle filled with water is the water resistance impeding the blow when striking the window. The Res-Q-Me or center punch is not affected by water resistance (of the strike) and should make breaking the window easier than with a hammer or knife. The hand/arm only under water is not taking into account the water resistance against the whole body. Think of it this way if you stand above the water surface and punch water, your body is anchored on a firm surface, now go underwater and punch, your whole body will recoil slightly losing power.

Pete

Consider the needs of a person with diminshed or little physical strength or ability. It is folly to assume an emergency tool will always be wielded by a strong, able-bodied person.

If power will be diminished then the choice seems obvious to go with a mechanical aid (for said person).

I got the Victorinix Rescue Tool but have yet to practice on an abandoned car or anything to see if I can successfully shatter glass.
I got it as much for getting someone else out of their car as for me to get out of mine.

Neither did they. They were looking at the most likely options for the "ordinary" person. Keys, cellphone, and try to kick it out.

The Life Hammer strike looked more like a hard tap than a swing. The window broke instantly.

Unless you run out of air before you get your kid out of the child safety seat in the back (or your panicky/unconscious passenger out of their belt), under stress, with water blasting in through the open window . . . .

I've seen "official" statements that say to get everyone out of their belts, THEN open/break a window. That gives you the maximum amount of time before you have to start holding your breath.

If I had a Ritter Grip with me, I'd try using it closed. There's a steel angle at end of the thumb-ridges which looks like it would be enough of a point, while still being strong and hard enough, and with much less risk of cutting something. [/quote]If I couldn't get my Res-Q-Me or my Life Hammer, I'd go for the awl on my Leatherman.

FYI, IIIRC, the episode in question is available under "Mythbusters: Collection 2" on Netflix instant watching.

Has anyone had any reliability issues with their ResQMe?

I had two issues with one of mine (I have several). I lost one hanging on my PFD during a drill in which I was getting back into an inflatable boat, it must have snagged on something. The replacement has been on my vest for well over a year, so the lost one may just not have been fully locked in place within the little retaining holder. I also notice the blade developing some surface rust, tried it out on some webbing and it still worked fine, just something to keep and eye on.

Pete

The spring on mine became loose and the center punch became useless. The failure could be easily heard, because of the rattling. It was 2 years old and i replaced it.

Did you drop it?

How to break car widows-

...suggesting that the issue is Mohs hardness, not size of impact point or energy applied. Perhaps a diamond-encrusted DR folder, a quartz crystal, or a spark plug fragment?

I fully agree. How do you mount the Res-Q-Me? This is what I always struggle with.

No, i always carry one on mine belt (not ideal, but i don't own a car. But i do drive often, so i have to have it somewhere...)It just became loose.

Hi Sodak,

They are currently hung from elastic bands on the turn signal lever on the steering column, probably not the most secure location in an accident.

Maybe 2 part velcro tape would be a better idea to mount the Res-Q-Me?

I am currently ordering a Houdini Automotive Rescue Tool to keep on my work keys which would either be in the ignition or clipped to my belt if away from the truck.

Mike

Many Electronics stores sell 2-sided hook-and-loop tape in a roll for use as wire and cable ties. You cut off the length you want and overlap the ends. It's about 1/4" wide, and would probably work fine for a lightweight attachment.

You can also buy hook-and-loop tape by the foot in various colors and widths here (and probably other places online, too).

I ordered some 1" inch red and both 1/2" and 1" black from them and am quite happy with the quality of it. Fold one end over twice and you have an instant "pull tab" to open it.

Thanks CG, this is one of them "Aroundtoit" jobs, I will get it done when I get around to it! I should start a list of these jobs.

Mike

One issue that may reduce the effectiveness of an improvised tool is that the outside water pressure on the window stresses the glass in a way that makes it harder to break from the inside. You have to overcome that water pressure to some degree just to bring the glass to a point of neutral stress, then go beyond that to a breaking stress in the outward direction. That effect would work against a broad force like kicking the window. The focused force of a window-breaker tool can impart a breaking stress over a small-enough area that water pressure is negligible, yet that small break will propagate until the window shatters.

Wow! This thread has really taken on a life of its own! I've come to a new conclusion: I'm going to affix my spare air within reach from the driver's seat. If I've got passengers with me I'll strap an 80 down in the back and run my 8ft octo forward. If we go into the water we can all just buddy breath and figure out some way to break the glass or open a door. Also, with the octo there will be plenty of time to gather our belongings, observe the muddy river bottom, etc.

What does everyone think

Please get a ResQme while you're at it.

Today I ordered the Houdini Automotive Rescue Tool (Window Punch, Belt Cutter, Whistle, LED Light), from a company in Vancouver, they were the only place I could find it in Canada.

I will do some tests and post the results when the tool arrives in a couple weeks.

Mike

This guy has it figured out: http://cbs13.com/watercooler/roseville.underwater.car.2.1432423.html

I like what CRKT is coming out with it clips on to your seatbelt so it's easy to find when you need it.

http://www.crkt.com/ExiTool-Seat-Belt-Cutter-Window-Breaker-LED-Flashlight-Tool

Now that is a nice looking solution. I may actually pick one of those up.

I had forgotten about this post?

I received my Houdini Automotive Rescue Tool and it appeared really functional, but the connection was kind of flimsy looking.

I clipped it onto my key ring which then clipped to my belt. It made it all the way to my office, then the first time I sat down the bottom of the tool pushed against my thigh and the plastic connection piece broke off. I managed to snap it back together but it was not very secure, an hour later the connector clip was in 2 pieces. Not Good!

I like the multi-purpose concept of the tool (window punch, seatbelt cutter, whistle, LED Light) and I will return it for a replacement, but they need to improve the attachment method.

Mike

I contacted the online retailer where I bought the Houdini Tool ( Warriors and Wonders ) and they gave me a full price store credit "sight-unseen", excellent Customer Service and a nice guy! Now what should I buy with a credit at a knife store?

Mike

How had I missed the Boker Urban Survival Knife? The blade doesn't look great, but it appears to be a pen in a pocket and had a class breaking end!