A plane crashes and I'm first on scene

A plane crashes and I'm first on scene. I report it on my cell phone. then what?

What do I do? What should I not do?

Edit: Assume I am in my vehicle with one or two car fire extinguishers, a small first aid kit , and lots of stuff in my bug-out-bag for outdoor survival.

From your title I thought you were at the scene today of the small plane that landed on a California freeway and was subsequently run into by three cars.

First thing I'd do is see if there was anyone alive to help.

But I wouldn't move them unless they were in imminent danger from fire or explosion.

If there were anyone alive I would imagine there would be bleeding to try and stem.

I'd sure be praying I wasn't there by myself for long.

Amen.

SCENE SAFETY!!!

Is the plane on fire? Fuel spill? Are you downwind and sucking in toxic fumes? Any hazard to yourself, and you're best standing back and staying alive. Don't become a victim!

OK, now assuming the scene is totally secure... I'd stop my car, with all lights on (headlights, E-flashers, everything) 30-50 yards before the plane, angled so as to block 2 lanes of traffic. Why? Scene safety! You occasionally see FF's killed when some jack@$$ drives past their engine and nails them.

Triage: number of patients? Breathing or not? Usually, if they're not breathing, you give one attempt at opening the airway. If they don't start, they're dead enough. Keep moving. Stop only to apply bandages to HEAVY bleeding and assess patients. If a person can follow commands, they're good enough. Once you have a rough idea on patients and severity, call back 911 and update them, so they can update the units responding and include more if needed.

I'd not move folks personally. treat the most serious injured first. Usually though, really injured folks need more than gauze and an IV, so it's kinda/sorta OK to pass up someone with a horrible internal injury in order to treat someone else - only because you can't really treat that internal injury with a FAK.

That's enough for now.

Assume I stumble thr0ugh that, there are survivors invarious conditions, and the plane is starting to smoke, now what?

I'd probably barricade with my rig THEN get closer. Rubberneckers are going to be an issue, I'd want to have a "lee" behind my vehicle big enough for a rig to get into.

And while doing triage, if anyone is coherent, try to get them to stay in their seats, and if there are enough people that they are getting in the way, some start taking history.

As soon as the cavalry shows up, hand off and ask their boss where they want me, and if the answer is the hell off their scene I leave my name and contacts and get the hell off their scene.

dweste:

1st question is it a civilian aircraft ?
2nd question dose it use gasoline or JP4
3rd question is there people in it(if its a jet fighter, there gone.
4th question is there fire or heavy smoke
5th question is there anything else envolved in the crash.
6th question is it a strike damage aircraft(actually a hard crash like a nose job) or just a hard landing?

Next
Dweste you had to get me into this didn't you

Civilian as far as I can tell, no idea of the fuel, victims inside, just light smoke just started, plane onto roadway only, don't know what you mean by strike damage.

And, yes, al, you opened your big post and I jumped on it!

Having been to several rotary wing crashes, you are going to be looking at spinal and leg injuries. If it isn't going to burn or sink DON"T MOVE ANYONE.

If you are knowledgeable about the aircraft, or it is really well marked, you might kill the battery breakers (or whatever the right term is). No juice, fewer sparks.

If it is military, and burning, you may have ammo cooking off once it gets too hot. If it is a gunship, you might consider finding another zip code to be in....

If you can approach the wreck I would think the first thing, after call it in and getting emergency service moving in that direction, would be to turn off everything and kill the power. If there is no fire you want to keep it that way. Turning off the power reduces the chances of sparks and of fuel or hydraulic pumps spreading or spraying flammable liquids.

If there is no obvious fire risk don't be too quick to move occupants. Small planes often lose their wings, and most of their fuel, if they crash into trees. The fuselage may carry on for a considerable distance. Which can greatly reduce the chances of a fire threatening any survivors.

Assuming they live falling out of the sky often means traumatic damage with a high potential for spinal cord injury. If there is significant bleeding a tourniquet may be your best option. This can often be done without having to move the person so there is less chance of spinal cord injury. Staunching the worse of the bleeding and comforting them may be your best option.

If there is an imminent danger of fire you may be forced to move people. If you do try to support the neck, clothing or foam rubber from the seats might be used as an expedient cervical collar, and to keep the spine straight. Dragging a person is easier, and often less damaging, than carrying them. A blanket, tarp or other large piece of cloth can make dragging someone easier and provide some support.

If there are just a few small fires and you clearly have time and resources putting them out might be a good move. It would be good to have people survive the crash but die in a brush fire.

If your in a forest or the site is not otherwise clearly visible you might consider providing emergency services with some sort of visual clue as to where to go. In remote areas a small but smoky fire started well away from the wreck might provide this clue as would a brightly colored tarp or flag. But, as I understand it, most crashes happen near airports and responders usually have a very good feel for the immediate surrounding area so visual clues might be unnecessary.

Those are the things that come to mind but response will always be an exercise in improvisation and management. Of balancing what you can do with what should be done. Doing too much can do as much harm as doing nothing. Take a deep breath, think it through, then act.

I am not a pilot or familiar with aircraft, is there a universal location / color /way of turning off power?

Unfortunately not, at least w/ civilian ships. While you're in there, also turn off the fuel pump. These tips mostly apply to passengers, so hopefully you had a safety briefing before getting in; make sure to ask if not.

Fun fact: If somebody is over six feet two inches height, they're much more susceptible to breaking a femur on a hard landing. I don't really understand it but it's in the mechanics. Anybody care to expound?

deweste:
strike damage in when there is major damage to the fusalage and the wings,or rotors. in other words the aircraft is not salvageable but manley twisted metal and wires,engine and other components ( read JUNK )

My big post? I just made a comment on yours, but you got the fourm going

O.K. we will assume it is a standard 2 or 4 place aircraft with two people that you can see. If possible approch the area from the down wind side, When you leave your car take your fire extinguisher and first aid kit. more than likley it will have low lead gas on board, smoke is bad, if it is coming from the eng area send a squrt from your extinguisher in the holes just behind the prop. I am going to assume(again) that you have a dry chem ext. If there is fuel on the ground dust it with the ext. Now check on the passengers be very carefull of the head area (any thing in the back seat that was not tied down could of hit then in the back of the head)
hopefully because of your actions there is no fire. insure they are breathing make sure there head is not on there chest and cuting off air flow. leave them in the aircraft and use your first aid kit to stop or reduce bleeding. During all this time you have to make sure some fool dosen't come running up and try to Pull the people out of the wreak. When you are alone you have to be a firefighter, medic and cop. buy this time I hope a LEO and the fire department is there to help you. When they get there back off and let them do there jobs, but stay around they will have a lot of questions for you.

as a general rule most switches can be reached from the pilots location (left side for fixed wing aircraft and could be eather side for a rotor wing aircraft) What you will be looking for is a switch labled battery or BATT and it could be on a regular key switch. on a small aircraft it more than likley be on the lower left side of the forward panel. on rotor wing it could be in the center panel on small ships or on the overhead panel on larger ships.

Coupla things. On most small planes, the ignition system is completly seperate from battery/electrical system.

There will be a switch (perhaps a key) labled "MAGS" with positions OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH and perhaps START.

The battery switch is usually called the MASTER SWITCH.

There may be a fuel boost pump switch. There is also a FUEL SELECTOR valve labled OFF-LEFT-RIGHT and sometimes BOTH.

There have been enough movies where they got it wrong that I should mention that you pull the trottle all the way BACK for idle. To shut down the engine, you pull the red MIXTURE lever/knob all the way back and wait a few moments for the engine to stop and then turn the MAGS off. This runs the engine dry of fuel so that it can't "kick" if someone moves the prop.

I have to think that you start by handling the incident as you would any other vehicular accident. Most of the prior responses seem to be in line with that approach. For example, I would encourage accident victims to stay put and not move them myself, unless conditions dictated that not moving them put them in great danger. If either a car or plane was on fire, you might consider moving the people insdie or near it. The materials that might be burning in either a car or plane should be similar. The plane is likely to have things that burn differently than those in a car, the fuel may burn differently, but it's still going to have the same type of fires, with probably most commencing with Class B materials.

First thing, get help coming. Have someone make a 911 call and know it's being made.

Second, begin to assess things. What happened? What is still happening? What position and condition is the vehicle in, and does that position and condition pose a threat to anyone in it or around it? Can you change that position and/or condition to improve things? What are the conditions of people involved, and do any of them need attenion right now, such that if they do not get it, they are not going to make it? If they are in danger, can you do anything about it? Is there more than one person in such a condition? Which one needs more attention, which conditions can you address? How far out is help? When are they expected to get there?

I was in this situation about 20 years ago. My girlfriend and I were up late one Summer night and we heard a plane fly very low over the house. A few moments later, we heard the engine roar and then a loud thud. We looked at each other in shock as we both realized what just happened.

At the time, we were living in a mostly forested area. From the sound, we had a rough idea of where the plane went down.

We scrambled around for flashlights and hiked/jogged out about a 1/2 mile to where we both thought the plane had crashed. It was a full moon, so it was pretty easy hiking.

Surprisingly, it didn't take long to find the plane. It was right where we guessed it would be. The flashlight beams reflected back from the white tail and half the fuselage that were sticking up out of the ground. It was a small single engine plane.

I sent my girlfriend back to the house to call the police and I proceeded to see if I could help any survivors.

When I got closer, I could see chunks of flesh and debris strewn about the site. The smell of fuel was heavy in the air. There was no smoke or fire. It was a gruesome sight.

Realizing that no one survived, I walked back to the house meet up my GF and the authorities who had just arrived at the house.

Assuming it is a light aircraft you would follow the same procedures as any vehicle crash.

One thing I have noticed with plane crashes you tend to get the two extremes either light injures or everyone's dead there is not much in between. Helios are of course an exception.

One thing to watch for is if it's a high wing aircraft the fuel tanks are in the wing, most of the time a real tank not a wet wing, the fuel is gravity fed to the fuel pump and engine. On most Cessna products there is a fuel sector in the middle of the front of the instrument panel, do not bother with it the push rods the work the valves tend to bend making to useless. If it is a low wing many of then only have one door on the right side of the cabin and the fuel is in the wing several company use a wet wing where the skin of the wing is the fuel tank.

The master switch is usually a rocker switch on the lower part of the panel just to the left of the engine controls (not always but most of them seem to do this) If it is a low wing many of then only have one door on the right side of the cabin and the fuel is in the wing several company use a wet wing where the skin of the wing is the fuel tank. Also the master switch does not turn the ELT off. Do not bother with the key switch that only works the mags that will not have power as long as noone moves the prop.

Please note any action you take and report it to the NTSB or the state investigaters when you can.

A few years back we had a small plane 'trip' over some high power lines and crash just at the end of my road - maybe 1/4 mile away. There wasn't anything to do but call 911. All that was left was some burning grass and a pile of twisted metal. Nobody could have survived that hit as they came almost straight down nose-first (the neighbor boy saw it coming down).

Amazingly one of the Chicago TV stations (5 or 7??) was on the scene very fast. They must listen to police channels.

These days there are hundreds of houses where that plane hit. The nearby airport is still there and operating. At some point one of those houses is bound to cushion someone's landing.

Ken

From reading accident reports, it seems that if the aircraft is under control at the time of the crash, ie. being flown to a crash landing there is a good chance of survival and minimal injuries. If the aircraft is out of control ie. stall/spin, disorientation in IMC, death spiral, etc. there won't be much left.

Side note: The media knows nothing about aviation. A Cessna lost power and set down in a mall parking lot over here in NJ the other day. They reported that in instructor and student were on board and "it was not known which one was at the controls at the time of the crash..."

P.S. Good tip about noting anything you touch/move - this is very important to the accident investigation.

WOW. this a great thread

My impression is more or less the opposite. Those extremes happen, of course, but there are a lot of crashes in which some survive and some don't. Often many survive the crash but die in the fire, and then much will depend on how close you are to the damage, how close to an exit, and how prepared you are mentally.

My experce is with light air craft and that is what I have seen.

Many time it is luck of the draw.

We had a Lear Jet that both on board would have survived if the plane would have been 3 feet to the right when it hit. The tip tank hit a tree and spraed the aircraft with Jet-A.

The only large aircraft crashes I have direct knolage of where hard crashes that none survived.

Make sure the crash scene is SAFE for you to approach. You don't want to become a casualty.

What exact steps would you take to be sure the crash scene is safe?

Safe approach of a crash site can be difficult.

But go to the basics, Pause before you enter the site, Look, Listen, and Smell.

Look for any signs of smoke or fire, if in woodland look in the trees for broken branches of aircraft parts and do not walk under them.

Listen for and metrical sounds I have had jet engines that the starter motor has be running for at least a day after the crash. Also listen for survivors.

Smell for smoke but more inportly fuel smell with a light plane it will be gas, for a jet it will smell like kerosene.

Next look at your route in and out of the crash site. You should try to approach from up wind and level with the site. Fuel fumes tend to travel down hill and down wind but if it goes up the flash will travel uphill from the site. Look at the ground and up in the trees for debris do not step on anything unless you cannot avoid it, and again do not walk under any debris or broken branches.

Get in and get out as quickly as you can, if the cabin is not intact do not even bother going in, wait until someone gets there..

Crash sites are by there nature full of bad things. If a fire starts get out fast the fuel fumes will flash and can start other parts of the aircraft on fire, but it is ground soaked with fuel that will keep burning for a long time and is very hard to put out you will not be able to stop a fire with a hand held fire extinguisher.

I think MDianna pretty much nailed it. You can look at it this way, it sucks that a plane crashed, and that people are dead and dying, but if you become a victim yourself, you will not be able to help anybody. The goal is to always return home safely to your family at the end of the day. That is your number one responsibility - to always keep yourself safe.

The rule of thumb when dealing with any hazardous materials incident (a smoking fuselage would qualify) is: "if you can't cover up the scene by simply holding up your thumb, you are too close" - hence the rule (of thumb) Oh, and you want to be UPWIND, NOT downwind (as someone mistakenly said earlier).

Only trained HAZMAT personnel and/or firefighters with turnout gear should be involved in extricating survivors from a smoking aircraft. Emergency Responders should maintain a safe distance, and be prepared to apply quick life saving first aid as necessary (think ABC), and otherwise load and go.

Triage is hard. You have to spend less than 60 seconds on each person. If they can't breathe on their own, you slip in an OPA, reposition their head and maybe give a rescue breath (with a PVM) then move on. You can learn more by taking a START (Simple Triage and Rapid Treatment) course.

I'd suggest that everyone take at least an advanced first aid class with CPR. If you have the time, consider becoming an EMT-B. I am a volunteer firefighter and first responder/EMT-B myself, and it is very rewarding.

Good points have been made in the thread. Something I keep in my truck for work is a set of nomex flight gear (flight suit, gloves, beanie), leather boots and a mix of nomex and wool underwear. Would it be worth the delay getting to the victim to put the nomex clothing on before I approached?

It would slow me down getting to the victim, but the time dressing up would be used evaluating the scene from a distance and planning a course of action. If a fire did happen, I'd be able to egress without bringing too much fire with me. The gear I mention won't allow me to stay in the fire, it will only allow me a few more seconds to escape without serious burns. Nomex won't melt or support flame, but it does char and then disintegrate.

Nomex clothing in itself is not insulative from heat, it’s main value as you state is that it does not melt and may provide some minimal protection in a flashover situation. But without the added insulative protection you get with turnout gear, serious burns can still occur very quickly. Even turnout gear has limits; steam burns can occur quickly where there is compression, such as where the harness straps from the SCBA cross the shoulders.

Pete

That and the minimal gear I have does nothing to provide a source of breathable air while in a fire. Once a fire starts it gives me a few seconds to get clear, otherwise they find another dead guy who shouldn't have been there.