Nose Bleed!!

Hello everyone,<br>I just found out I am terribly unprepaired. My three year old daughter just had a nose bleed and I had no idea what to do. I know, not life threatening but gave me a kick in the butt. I got her into the bathroom and a couple of cool washrags seemed to slow it down. Then MOM came home and saved the day, she knew what to do because she had a nose bleed last week too. She also knew that reading a story would help:)<br><br>I thought I knew what to do but I was not for sure. Ran around looking for a first aid book or something to tell me I was doing what needed to be done. The only thing I could find was a Boyscout handbook. <br><br>Guess it is time to take that Red Cross class I've been putting off. I also want to get a good firstaid reference book, any suggestions? Does a book come with the class?<br><br>Unprepared but surviving.<br>Glen<br><br>

I think this is best answered by our esteemed medical colleagues Beachdoc and Trustbox.

Panic and is everyones first response, don't sweat it. A good pinch on the soft of the nose for 15-20 minutes should take care of your normal nosebleed. I personally haven't taking any R.C. classes yet, but I would assume they could do no harm. There are some more experienced medical people in here, but three books I recommend are: A Comprehensive Guide to Wilderness & Travel Medicine and Emergency Medical Procedures for the Outdoors and Medicine for Moutaineering & Other Wilderness Activities. While the books sound like the "outdoors-only" type, they have great information for most first-aid procedures packed into them. Hope this helps.<br><br>John McIntire

First aid and raising children go together like ham and eggs. By all means take a class and take it soon. Raising my kids was a good final exam for my EMT training.<br><br>Every class I have ever taken or taught involved a book; if you expect to not have normal access to the typical urban medical system, obtain a book like "Medicine for Mountaineering" by James Wilkerson, or an equivalent. I would be interested to see what more informed people in this forum (Pete?) would recommend.

Pinching the soft tissue of the nose is a good idea. In some cases use Afrin Nasal Spray. It will constrict the capilaries.<br>Saturate a piece of gauze with a rinsed tea bag and hold it in the nose for five minutes.<br><br>If the nosebleeds persist I recommend packing the nose with Vaseline. Avoid blowing the nose as this will loosen the blood clots. Seek medical attention as soon as possible so they can cauterize, do medical packing, or surgery, etc.

My 9 1/2 year old son has a history of frequent nose bleeds. His physicians have advised us that the nose bleeds are caused by a blood vessel near the surface in his nasal passage which bleeds when irritated or otherwise insulted sufficiently. He uses pressure on the nasal passage, although the acual blood vessel has been difficult to reach for compression. It has been helpful to provide reassurance and calmness (sometimes more for bystanders than him if privacy is impossible), to keep his head elevated, to provide a comfortable environment (e.g., some private place such as a bathroom sink or bathtub where his bleeding is not a problem). A few minutes of inactivity seems to provide more opportunity for the clotting to secure the cessation of bleeding. Antihistamines may have also helped to relieve allergic irritation in the nose (all but one of our family have significant allergies) and thereby inhibit recurrence of the bleeding. Having a calm & helpful support person, preferably his parent, present has also been useful. It is unclear if it has helped to tilt the head back. <br><br>In my son's case, it has generally been helpful to keep antihistamines & either paper towels or a red bandana handy.<br><br>He has never required a physician's treatment to control an individual nose bleed.<br><br>That is the approach we have successfully used in our individual situation. It should not be considered as medical advise for others. You may want to consult your child's pediatrician in advance of any future recurrences, especially if there is a chronic problem.<br><br>We are fortunate in having at least 2 skilled physicians among the participants in this forum. I'd love to hear what they have to say on the matter of nose bleeds.<br><br>John

To stop the bleeding a wet and cool washrag in the neck is good. If the bleeding occurs frequently without known cause you should see a doctor.<br>I highly recomend taking a first aid class. Actually I recommend a regular refresher too. On this side of the pond some organisations offer special classes for parents of young children. Maybe it´s a good idea to ask if you can get such a class.

Back in the fifties when I was your sons age, I had the nosebleeds for the same reason as your son. The remedy was to recline, tilt the head back (I remember hating the blood running down my throat) and my mom placing ice wrapped in a washcloth over my nose. It didn't take long and the bleeding would stop.

I don't personally get nose-bleeds (bloody nose is another thing involving some violence and I got plenty of those when I was younger). My wife and duaghter both get them often enough for me to used to them. Calm reassurance is the best medicine. A binch just above the bridge of the nose is supposed to be a pressure point for one of the major arteries in that area - Don't know for sure but it gives me something to do while I am holding a kleenex / hankie / rag under the nose to catch the slop and keep the shirt front clean. My 8 year old daughter used to be woken up several nights a month with freely flowing nose bleeds. We eventually got the doc to find and cauterize some of the more vulnerable parts of her nasal passage. This has had the desired effect for the most part. She no-longer wakes up drowning in her own blood. <br><br>The first time it happened she was 4 or 5 and came into our room early in the dark part of the morning and woke us up crying. Turning on the light we were panicked by the sight of blood all down her face and onto her nighty. Just as we started to reassure her and clean her up she vomitted all the blood she had swallowed before she woke up. That was gross and quite shocking! Now, several years later and several nose-bleeds later, she and we take it in stride. Last time it happened we were hiking in the local mountains with some others and she pulled my elbow and said that she had a nose-bleed. We stopped the group and I handed her a package of Kleenex and sat her down. She went through an entire pocket-pak of Kleenex but it finally stopped and she was fine. Wiped up her face with a clean tissue and all was well. No fuss, no muss. My doctor told us that it is extremely uncommon to lose a dangerous amount of blood this way if it is a common nose-bleed and not some other type of internal hemorage. The worst danger we were warned about was the possibility of choking on the blood if the victim were to be laid supine or to tilt the head back. <br><br>I took the EMT basic course last year and they didn't mention much about nose-bleeds so I guess that they don't consider them something that often needs emergency medical intervention. They did confirm what my doctor had said about the amount of blood and the dangers of choking. My experience is that my daughter will quite handily fill a large bandana and shock whatever group may be witnessing the experience and, if unprepared ruin a shirt - but the bleeding always stops before anything really bad happens and as long as she is vertical and head in normal position we no longer experience the vomitting of half digested blood and associated discomfort all around.<br><br>disclaimer: I am only an EMT basic not a doctor. I am sharing my experiences only and not giving any advice. Any circumstance involving leakage of vital fluids must be treated as very serious until proven otherwise. For specific advice for you specific situation see a doctor that knows you and your circumstances well.

I would agree with most of the postings regarding controlling nosebleeds. Direct pressure is almost always the best method of controlling bleeding. Pinching the soft tissues of the nose and applying cool compresses to the area will generally be sufficient. Frequent or uncontrolled bleeding should definitely be addressed by a medical professional. Several of the items posted, are somewhat debatable. The coating of the nasal passage with Vaseline should be under the direction of Physician, petroleum jelly, if aspirated into the lungs can lead to aspiration pneumonia. While it may not be likely that enough would be aspirated, there is little reason to take a chance. Another issue is putting the head back, and allowing the blood to flow into the throat, most first aid instructions recommend sitting the person down and placing the head between the knees to prevent blood from being swallowed. Blood is very irritating to the stomach and can cause nausea. Pete

re: Tea Bag<br><br>Hmmm... I don't remember hearing this before. I would guess that the tea acts as an astringent and aids in the clotting. I wonder if it could be used in a pinch for small wounds. I can see myself on the trail with a nasty, but not sever cut. Pull out my alcohol stove and pot and boil myself a nice cup off tea, while sanitizing the tea bag. Then sip away while holding the spent bag on the wound. ahhh... That's better.

A current scout book would have given you help as it has a fairly complete first aid section for basic treatment. Remember it's for young boys, so it may not be as comprehensive as other books. <br><br>Scouts are required to learn more and more first aid as the advance through each rank. Fortunately, the authors put all of the first aid text in one spot, in the First Class (Red) section. I only wish they segragated it a bit so it's easier to find in an emergency, even a minor one such as yours. <br><br> I think I'll carry a pack of Post-It Note tabs we use at work and start tagging the beginning page of the first aid section on the boy's manual. I think I'll also start writting the local poison control center number in the front cover.<br><br>BTW, the Red Cross often offers their training through local hospitals and clinics. They also provide a book with the course. I had mine from when I was a youth (1970's) until 2 years ao. After working with the scouts on their first aid requirements, I discovered than many of the stabdad procedures have changed, like tilting the head forward now for nose bleeds. I decided it was potentially harmful to have the obsolete text lying around.

I would think that if you are still bleeding significantly after an alcohal stove boiled a cup of tea you might not need the tea. ;>)

You´ll be much better off if you dress the wound properly with some sterile material. The bag will not be sanitized if you brew your tea in the usual manner. You have a really good chance of contaminating the wound plus the water from the bag might impede the clotting. The benefits are at least questionable.<br>

I agree, my reply was half tongue-in-cheek, which doesn't always come across properly on the internet.<br><br>However, the other half was somewhat serious. There are many wild plants and herbs that have astringent properties. My preference will be to use proper dressings after irrigating the wound. But if one does find themselves in a rare, extended emergency situation where your preferred supplies have been exhausted, than knowing usefull alternatives is valuable knowledge. I'd rather not ake a poultice of Sweetfern leaves or from a used tea bag. But if I have no alternatives, it's good to know what can help survive. Also, I recall that some premade kits and some personal kits list tea bags as an included item, so if there were any medical uses, it may a[pply to folks on the forum.<br><br>

Most nose bleeds occur from the capillaries underneath the nasal mucosa on either side little's area (on the cartilaginous extension of the nasal septum). Therefore because it is capillary bleeding, it is (1) highly unlikely to be fatal (2) will generally stop on its own ( of course in the meanwhile the parents will be freaking out)<br><br>Treatment consists of direct pressure on the capillaries that are bleeing in the area - <br>(1)squeeze both nostrils tight against the cartilaginous area of nose in the midline.<br>(2)Lean head forward. <br>(3)Breath through the mouth.<br>(4)Hold it there for 10 minutes. <br>That should stop all the bleeding.<br><br>Wet rags are mildly comforting to the patient but have no real effect on stemming the bleeding. <br>Don't put anything in the nose either.<br>And for goodness sake don't dig the scab when the blood has clotted !<br><br>For frequent bleeders, they might benefit from chemical cautery of the offending blood vessels in the nose.<br>Other medications which can be helpful are oxymetazoline nasal spray - this shrinks down the diameter of blood vessels and reduces the incidence of bleeding.<br><br>This is general medical advice and is not intended for any particular person or individual. Please consult your own physician before using any of the medications suggested.<br><br>

I used to suffer from nosebleeds occassionally when I was a kid.<br><br>After being told numerous 'remedies' by various adults (tilting head backward, rags etc.) I finally settled on this one:<br><br>Go to the toilet cubicle, close the door, stuff some sheets of paper into the bowl, stand with head above toilet, don't touch nose at all and bleed into the bowl until no blood emerges for more than two minutes.<br><br>Emerge from cubicle (when there's no-one else around; the sight of a face full of blood tends to scare some people). Grab some sheets of tissue paper, wet them under the faucet, and gently clean the outside of the nose. Wash the rest of the face in the normal manner.<br><br>Ensure that there is no blood remaining anywhere. Drops of blood falling more than a few inches tend to create splashes in the most odd places. And blood in the toilet bowl goes hard very rapidly, so an occassional flush is required to get rid of it.