Night vision gear

Ok, I don't see this topic being discussed much so I thought I'd ask for some feedback.

I have little real experience with night vision equipment and it's not something I would place very highly on my priority list. Still, I've noticed lately there are some interesting devices in the $300-500 range on the market and it's given me some food for thought.

I understand that low cost night vision gear is all pretty much gen 1/1+ and not comparable to what serious operators use these days. However, that's fine with me. I cannot justify the $3000+ expense for a generation 2 device or better. But if I could get something in the lower price range that would actually allow me to find my way around the bush (with the potential of being handy in some less foreseeable situations) it would open up some interesting possibilities.

After some research I've been able to find two inexpensive monocular goggles that would apparently fit the bill more or less, ATN Viper and Yukon NVMT. They look similar and the reviews seem to be largely positive but then again, I don't trust online reviews too much. I'm still reluctant to make the purchase because I don't really know what kind of performance to expect. Like I said, I'd use night vision mostly for quiet nocturnal treks so there's no need for high magnification, super high resolution or long range, I could even live with having to use an IR illuminator. It's all good as long as it makes walking in the bush at night more convenient and doesn't instantly give you away like a 200 lumen flashlight.

Does anyone here have any experience with night vision equipment? I'd appreciate some advice and first-hand experience.

Most all of my knowledge comes from USGI issue stuff.

I have noticed most of the non-issue stuff is Russian, so make sure it will use standard batteries. Would not be much fun to have some insane battery size you can only purchase on-line from the former USSR stockpiles.

Try to get something that has a protection circuit for exposure to light. Nothing worse than someone turning on a light unexpectedly and blinding you. (Not to mention damage to the NV device.)

Work on your neck muscles and flexibility. The FOV on these things is VERY limited. You will be turning your head constantly. Also depth perception is seriously degraded. Don't walk into any trees, and really don't drive in it until you are adjusted (and kill the dash lights).

As an aid to navigation NV equipment is of little use. Your normal night vision will do you fine, you just need practice to move around with confidence.

NV equipment will destroy your normal night vision, it also takes practice to move with nv equipment because you lose your perception of depth.

Lastly if you want to use nv equipment to be stealthy you have to realise that NV equipment leak light from the eyepiece and hum or whistle in operation.

...."hum and whistle in operation"....

What type of NVG's were you using?

Even the old as heck stuff that the National Guard had in 1992 AN/PVS-5) did not do that?

lol my experience of the national guard stealth was never considered!

There's a little whine from the machine - electronics or something.


I'd say to consider one that had an on/off if it has the IR light. I bought a $150 from Big 5, and the (reddish) light is always on. In fact, when I cover the light, the goggles work for crap.

Try and see if you can test them for a few days before the sale is finalized. You may find that they're not as great as you're hoping. Or, maybe they are!

Well then, maybe you will accept my previous experience as a scout/sniper and counter sniper in the 101st Airborne Division.

We had several different kinds of night vision devices, and I really don't remember complaining about humming or whistling.

Having been in combat in both a jungle and desert environment, I promise I would not have missed that little issue.

Now I will acknowledge the thermal imager on the old TOW missile system did produce some noise, so did the vehicle that carried it there. Kinda a wash, yes?

I have seen NV equipment used profitably for navigation on dim, hazy, overcast nights. Skies that looked entirely featureless to the naked eye where filled with identifiable stars when a low-light scope was used. Navigation lights on distant ships were not visible in the haze using the Mk1 eyeball but they were obvious in the scope.

I'm not saying that night-vision gear is essential. In many case I suspect people can get along well enough without it considering that NV gear can be expensive, bulky, heavy and it requires you carry batteries to feed it. Given a similar amount of money and weight/bulk allocation I think I could come up with at least a half dozen other things that could be put into a survival kit that are more likely to be immediately useful.

If your travels and habits mean your likely to be at sea at night looking for a particular buoy so you know where to turn; or there is some chance you may be charged with finding lost people at night in a wilderness then NV gear, particularly the near IR which shows body heat, may be just the thing.

It is also handy for figuring out what is thrashing through the brush around your camp without waking the entire camp by putting on a light show. Half the time if you use a flashlight the critter flees before you get a look. Leaving the identification a mystery. With low-light scope identification and observation are easy.

NV gear isn't often vital for most people but in a few situations it can allow you to do difficult things easily and occasionally allows you to accomplish thing that might be impossible otherwise.

My experience with civy NVG monoculars is battery drain and other than that its great to use in the backyard to scout coons and squirrels or show off to the visiting friends.

They weigh to much and take up to many batterys to be effective for anything else. You'd be better off getting a digicam with night vision at least you could tape what your looking at.

Not trying to be a debbie downer but if you have that kind of money to spend put it into a kick ass EDC, bug out kit or food stores.

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! Maybe I should explain this a little more detail - I don't really NEED night vision goggles. I have done some hiking at night and while going by the naked eye alone is feasible only on a very bright night, a decent flashlight works just fine. The problem is, a flashlight instantly gives you away and makes the wildlife go crazy.

So if I had the option to buy a night vision device that would work to, say, 100 yards without much ambient light for a few hundred $ I'd definitely go for it. On the other hand, I sure as heck wouldn't want to blow my money on a toy just so I can play soldiers in the dark. Nor do I need a novelty item to collect dust.

Desperado, I value your response very highly due to your background. It has to be said however that the devices in my price range are all gen 1/1+. That's basically the Vietnam era technology, though somewhat improved and much more compact (what was it called back then, starlight scope or something like that IIRC). The AN/PVS-5 is gen 2 (gen 3 if upgraded) by comparison so the performance should be a lot better in theory.

Re: depth perception, that is one reason why I've been looking at a head-mounted monocular. Here you can see the two particular models that caught my attention:
http://www.atncorp.com/NightVisionBinocularsGoggles/ATNViper
http://www.nightvisionstore.com/Yukon%20NVMT%201x24%20Head%20Mount%20Kit%2024025.htm

I will agree that NV equipment has it uses for nature watching. I wish i owned some of the NV kit we used in Ireland for watching, photographing and filming suspect just for capturing images of the creatures of the night but that kit is limited by price.

Maybe i have been spoilt by the high quality NV kit i have used in the operational role. The fact is that most of the NV kit you can buy of the shelf nowadays although uses gen1 technology does not match the quality of vision the gen1 military kit offered.

Gen 1 is really scrappy and the Viper provides very restricted field-of view. You're probably better off getting a Gen2/3 hand-held monocular at the same price. The head-mount on the viper makes sense, but is over-kill for the Gen1 Viper.

I own the ATN Viper Gen1 monocular w/head-mount. I purchased it refurbished/on sale for $120 US four years ago. Since then, I've had to have the tube replaced once under warranty - Service from ATN was excellent!

Gen1 Sux! Its just a fun toy - the kids enjoy playing hide and seek with it when camping or in the house with the lights turned off.

Its fun to spy on the 'coons, 'possums, black bears that prowel around some campgrounds w/insecure garbage bins at night.

It was nice to have when a bob-cat once visited my Mariposa County wilderness camp - I wouldn't have been able to enjoy watching him stalk otherwise.

The headgear function makes it a hands-free tool, but (IMO) a hand-held monocular is probably a better option if you buy gen1/2 as a toy.

IMO - The Viper Gen1 w/head-gear is not useful as military type night-vision tool for use w/firearms: its far too crude and limited in that capacity, or for night photography/astro-photography.

Its a light-weight device, but takes ups space and does add weight to a pack - so I usually forgo packing it on backpacking/hiking excursions. Its more suited to family camping/car camping.

That said - its still a well thought-out system on the cheap. You can add magnification lenses, mount it to cameras, wear it hands-free, it has a built in IR LED and clumsy but functional head-gear mount for "hands-free" operation.... except you have to manually refocus the optics all the time in order to focus and various distances...

It may be useful for some night-trecking (I've tried it in that in the woods; it felt very claustraphopic) - but its extremely limited "field-of-view" (like viewing though a pin-hole)IR range (unless you carry a secondary IR lamp), and C123A battery consumption truly hamper field ops, especially in dense wilderness environments or durations of 4+hrs...

On the plus side, one can adjust to using both eyes (one with the LI monocular) at night, and even learn to co-ordinate with a firearm, but again - its an extremely shabby and uncomfortable system compared to contemporary military high-end LI systems.

Its a fun toy. I take it camping sometimes, but never use the head-gear. Its not part of my BOB. If the lights went out in my town and things got creepy in my hood, or volunteer urban SAR ops were taking place in a lights out situation - it might be handy, but I doubt that prospect.

I have a Gen 1 unit and found the field of view is to narrow. It also lacks much depth of field on the focuse and that makes it hard to use.

Wow, I'm glad I started this thread, good to hear different opinions. In particular, thanks to Hazeywolf! Looks like you've just confirmed what I've been suspecting all along.

I can't quite understand the following, though:



From what I've seen, the cheapest gen 2 monoculars run well over $1000. Which is about twice as much as the best gen 1 devices in a similar configuration. Am I missing something? Are there actually better deals on gen 2/3 out there?

The more I look around the more options I can find. Some of the gen 1+ goggles apparently run a long time on a single battery, I've seen battery life up to 20 or 36 hrs, which is good enough in my book... I've even found some guys from Finland that are selling mint condition Dragunov night scopes, basically cascade mounted gen 1 (three tubes one after another) and it seems the performance is really good for the price ($200-400). Unfortunately, it's not quite what I'm looking for and getting Eastern Bloc surplus electronics sounds a bit risky to me.

Anyway, it's also interesting to compare different people's experience. Some of the online reviews on gen 1 goggles are really enthusiastic whereas reading your posts I ask myself if night vision equipment is worth the trouble at all... That's why I really appreciate your thoughts, especially from folks who've been there, done that and have first-hand experience with different night vision gear in the field.

Thanks Tom_L -

You're right - good 2nd Gen LI does cost over 1k. There are some gen2 LI devices that can be had (refurbished) for $3200US +: http://www.scopecity.com/detail.cfm?ProductID=6224

While I own the Viper monocular/headgear and my report does reflect my personal experience, I'm not an expert on the topic of LI tech - just a geek.

Thanks for introducing the cascade mounted gen1 LI tubes - those might be great!

The limited field of view and frequent manual refocusing of the Viper Gen1 optics (depending on distance of objects viewed) coupled with the unyeildy headgear mount were a disappointment. One can move the monocular right or left by manually unscrewing its bar mount and re-adjusting, but not flip it up and down easily over one's eye like contemporary helmet-mounted military LI devices, and so the Viper product can become a visual obstruction when using the headgear.

A more powerful, secondary hand-held IR Light does improve the performance of the device a lot.

Supposedly, it can be mounted to other optics (standardized camera lenses, and even some rifle scopes), but I've not used it in that capacity.

You might find some more reviews of the Viper on the web interesting: Cabelas: http://www.cabelas.com/p-0040344712641a.shtml

Again; ATN customer service was very good at servicing my refurbished model (2 year warrenty).

Would be nice to look out back and see who's robbing your garden at night too

Hazeywolf, interesting notes re: head mount. Like I said, I could probably come up with a better homemade headgear at a fraction of the price so getting just a plain monocular might do the trick.

The more I look around the more I see gen 2 is the way to go for any remotely serious job. The Night Optics D300 might be a great choice but we're talking $1500 and that's a bit too much for my liking.

Incidentally, I noticed the prices went up last couple of years. Could have something to do with the exchange rate since a lot of gen 1 & 2 is imported from Russia, then either resold as is (under a US brand) or modified to some extent.

Hell, I *want* a gen 2 NV unit... But I don't think I'm going to be shelling out $1500 any time soon. lol