The Perfect Survival Firearm

Many “adventurists,” whether of the arm chair variety or for real, mourn the passing of an excellently designed survival firearm; the Springfield Armory M6 Survival 410GA/22Caliber Firearm. I truly believe it was the best thought out firearm ever of that rare category. The fact that the M6 is no longer available new for sale is a tough fact of life, being completely out of production. HOWEVER, if anyone out there is in the midst of redesigning such a firearm for eventual production and sale to the general public, I would like to offer some ideas for a freshly designed survival weapon. Of course the trick it to avoid the ultra high expense of the high-end German drillings. What I have in mind is still a product that is in the $150.00 to $500.00 price range.

Some will immediately disagree with my first concept; really more of an assumption. That is that most of us who often, really go out alone into the wilderness, already carry side arms intended to stop humans and/or bears. So, what I propose is simply accepting this fact. The problem with this for most is a pistol designed for such tasks is not good for general adventuring or survival. What I am saying is that I will always have the pistol with me but I also want to carry a well designed combo firearm designed and intended primarily for the hunting of a variety of edible game animals that is very light in weight. With this first concept a given, at least to me, I would now like to offer my suggestions:

1) The 22 Caliber should still be part of such a firearm for the simple fact that there is no other round like it in versatility, being inexpensive, universally available and the round being available in several configurations; shorts, longs, long rifle, silent, shotshell, etc. The thing I would like to see in a newly designed firearm is the option of single shot to semi-auto or bolt fed. While the single shot break action of the M6 forced the shooter to really focus to make each shot count and there is great value in that, the shooter should have enough ammo to be a little more generous in his firing. After all, the goal is to actually hit the live target and get to eat!

2) The other change is leaving off the 410GA and substituting either 20GA or 12GA, though the 12 seems too large for a light weight firearm of this type. And keep the single action configuration. While the 410GA did allow in some models (rifled 410GA barrels only for this) to fire the 45LC, that was not much of an advantage. I had personally rather have a 20GA round in many configurations and be able to carry 20 to 50 rounds anytime I go into the wild.

3) It might be possible to offer such a general design in different gauges and calibers in set models, much like the Savage Arms Combos. Perhaps the two barrels of such a firearm could be side-by-side instead of over/under. Some might prefer the rifle portion to be a 3006, 308, 30-30, 223, 45-70, 44mag or such, though I think a 22Cal/20GA combo would be the lightest and most popular.

4) While the M6 was much appreciated for its striped down efficiency and ultra light weight I would like to suggest a different ethic, though not inconsistent with some of the design elements of the M6.
a. For instance, more ergonomic design; comfortable hand-fit would be nice.
b. Hard rubber or plastic used for a minimal fore end and/or butt stock. Actual wood seems too extravagant for such a firearm but there might be some design wizard out there who could have elements of wood integral to this thing without taking away its utility.
c. Some kind of scope rails or attaching devices.
d. Would come with sling swivels installed.
e. Total weight of unloaded firearm not to exceed 4 pounds. The M6 weighs 2.5lbs. The Savage Combos top out at over 8lbs!
f. Still needs to be easily broken down into at least two pieces.
g. Minimum lengths for both barrels not to exceed the M6 to aid in lightness and utility.

Does anyone out there get what I am saying?

I was taught to handle the military Ithaca on which the late M6 was based. This included actual wing shots at clay birds with those expensive aluminum shells.
Still the system's #1 priority as set by the USAF was WIEGHT.
And truth be told most aircrewmen in our C 130s flying Alaska slipped something personal in their flight bags.
My personal piece(s) was made back east. It was called Hershey.
I've shot combination firearms from the M 6 to the Luftwaffe survival drilling with the 9.3x72 rimmed equal to a .375 H&H.
That is a confidence building weapon- if you have a Junkers to stow it in.
In theory they are great for mixed game hunting in the bavarian woods when every animal on a black forest clock may pop out, including the cuckoobird.
In real use they are always a compromise in handling, and even the popular Cape Gun of South Africa was eventually supplanted by rifles.
I refer back to Mel Tappen's tome. A centerbore rifle literally gives the most 'bang for the buck' in terms of sheer game wieght for expenditure. And to that end I have a SMLE with a bandolier of military FMJs and some handrolled 215 rhino bullets.
But mostly I still replenish my Hersheys, except I've upgraded to Trader Joes 73% organic dark cocoa.I do so, because even the Inuit find the caribou have changed migration routes without warning.
As for small game, 20' of S/S wire isn't as romantic as a'piece'but it's just as effective and even simpler to reload.

This is an interesting topic and Hornfrog has some well thought out ideas. The Savage combination guns in .22/20 ga. seem to be the most practical basis for an improved gun. A collapsible stock, as in the M4, an alloy receiver to reduce weight, a lighter synthetic forend, and a compact red dot sight like the Docter would be worthwhile improvements.

Setting aside ursine and bipedal predators, I think a .22LR revolver or semiauto, combined with a decent sighting system and a shoulder stock, would be a useful, lightweight and compact package. A revolver that also accepts .22WMR cylinders might be useful. Perhaps the stock could double as a watertight case/holster, similar to the old Mausers.

If you are going to "always have the pistol with [you]", then I would only carry a shotgun. 12 or 20; your choice. I'm not sure how much you gain by having a second pistol caliber or second barrel of your carry pistol with you. Also,none of us can be sure of an "always" condition.

2 cents

The M-6 was popular for a reason.
If any changes are made I would vote for:
#1. a plastic forend, could a scope mount be integrated?
#2. perhaps .22 hornet but its tough to beat plain .22 cal.

IMO stay with .410
Concerning the bird shot the .410 will hit just as hard as a 12ga, the only difference it the pattern density.

Why try to reinvent the wheel !

It would be interesting to read the literature of actual survival stories and what part, and what configuration of a firearm took place.

The thing that's kind of tough about a "one size fits all" survival gun, is, not everyone is surviving in the same place or has the same survival needs.

Here in NJ/PA, I could probably get away with a pump .410 shotgun. Largest thing I've got to worry about here is black bear, and they're pretty rare. Otherwise, the most dangerous thing out here is other people and the largest of the wild game is probably white tail deer, with most shots being at a reasonably close distance.

But, in places like Africa, Alaska, the Great Plains, and others.....the situation is different. There is larger game, larger predatory animals, you might have to take further shots, ect. For those places, you might need something else, like a .300/.338 Win Mag or other high powered rifle round. A .410 wouldn't really cut it. The opposite is true as well, a .338 Win Mag bolt gun wouldn't really be what I would want to carry through NJ/PA.

Therefore, what you carry can be very dependent on location and what your individual survival entails. I don't think there is any single firearm that can do everything, for every place, effectively. So, I don't put too much stock in having one "do all" survival gun. I'd rather have the right gun for task, if possible.

It does not appear that the design of the M6 is being picked up by another manufacturer for production, so we must conclude no more will ever be available. So, a redesign is the only possible option.

Like I said in my first post, I like the M6 but IF a new design must be devised, then why not work to improve its over all design and usefulness. It is true that there is no one model of survival firearm perfect for every environment. That is why I think one general design with several models offering differing configurations would be the ideal (as the Savage Combo series has done only aiming for half the weight or less). Offerings like: Mix 22, 308, 223, 44, 338, 30-30, whatever with shotgun options in 20GA and 12GA; even 410 if folks prefer. All of these models to be made from high tech metals, rubbers and polymers with ergonomic design, a short as possible like the M6 to minimize weight. A “Survival Combo Carbine” if you wish. Someone made a great marketing and usefulness suggestion: It would be great if it came with the red dot sight and already fitted with swivels and sling.

IF I was going to build a combination weapon the shotgun tube would be 28 guage.This under appreciated shell will print as well as a 20 or 12 gauge with far less recoil.
The rifle cartridge would be the .30 US aka .30-40 Krag. This round falls in the lower pressure group but can load the potent 220 grain roundnose ( it's original loading.) for moose & bear.
The .30 Krag is also well known for 'squib load' friendly loading.
The problem, is that today's gunmakers will build actions around cartridges. One of the reasons the litle C 6 went out of production was in fact receiver issues with the .22 Hornet.
Buyers will want familiar cartridges like the .308 and 20-12 gauge. And even if the industry builds what they ask for, a fickle buyer will fail to buy in profitable numbers.

with all the interest in survival these days you would think that someone would come out with the "perfect" survival rifle. a quick look thru the shotgun news and i can find a dozen m-16 clones but folding or breakdown multi caliber weapons are thin on the ground..

My fav survival gun is a Beeman .20 cal R7 spring piston air rifle. Everyday, I can walk out the side door of my house and there are 40 or 50 fat pigeons sitting about 25 yards away up on the power line that runs over the street. I figure the pigeons will taste a lot better than the 30 or 40 crows and about the same number of sea gulls that also sit on the same power line with the pigeons. The gun is for all practical purposes, nearly silent, particularly if I shoot from behind the 7 foot high stone wall that runs along side my house and makes a perfect bench rest for the power line.

I probably have 5000 rounds of H+N Target wadcutters stored in a little coffee can along with the rifle.

Oh, and I also have the .22/410 version of the M6, but for some reason, I have a very tiny bit of barrel looseness that I need to have fixed. For that gun, I have a whole lot of low velocity, low noise .22 CB long ammo.

Yes, it is boring and unimaginative in the extreme to see all the “M-16” clones out there. There seems to be an inordinate amount of interest in military type weapons or at least military looking weapons. This is fueling the design and production of so many firearms it is impossible to keep up. So, I don’t even try. It must be some kind of macho thing for those worried about their manliness who get some kind of rush from the Rambo inspired ripping loose in wasteful nonproductive full auto. Having done my military service some time ago, I well know the life of the soldier and fully realize it is for very young men and by that I mean, no one over 35 should apply! If you have gotten that far along in life you ought to be happy to enjoy peaceful pursuits that are more satisfying and just as exciting in a completely different way. I don’t want a combo firearm to look like some black “tactical” weapon. I want a well designed, practical, useful, adventuring/hunting firearm. Surely there is a market for such a thing!

Online I was observing different models of inexpensive 22 rifles just to see the different types of actions all ready in production. The Marlin 981T, at the bottom cost-wise, a completely utilitarian tube fed, bolt action (still black, though!) 22 caliber, anything goes plinker-hunter that any 15 year old kid in the 60s would have been thrilled to own. Why wouldn’t that action work with a single shot shotgun combo? If the barrel lengths were kept to 18 ½ inches it would present a triple tube configuration which would be odd to most but very functional. The final product does not in my opinion have to look like any previously designed military type weapon. It only has to work well and not be too heavy to always hang it on my shoulder when I go into the bush. Is that too much to ask?

For those wanting more information on the M6, here are some interesting links:

http://www.cylindersmith.com/M6.html

http://www.milesfortis.com/church/akc13.htm

http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html

My farrier came back from his annual elk hunt REALLY upset. Somehow he arrived back home in Idaho with his .30-06 but no ammunition. No problem, one of the arguments for using .30-06 etc is commonality of ammunition. OH? He went to every retail store and THEY WERE SOLD OUT.It was elk season after all!
Of course, the Venezuelan mauser in 7x57 ( stoned 2 stage trigger, Lyman 48 peep site, Bishop stock) I gifted his daughter as starter rifle was fed with two dusty boxes of 174 grain reading PETERS AMMUNITION nobody wanted filled both their tags.
A survival firearm, or any firearm should always have a minimum supply on hand. I'm not suggesting the 5000 round bunker paranoia, or trading bricks of .22 in a post apocalyptic scenario for gold soveriegns and lima beans.
Just get the caliber YOU like and buy ammo for it.
Oh, my farrier was also upset because NOBODY would share or sell even 5 rounds. It seems he rented a car with California plates, came back to find the tailamps smashed out and go home! With expletives written in lipstick. I asked him why Idaho elk hunters use lipstick and if californians were missing something? :O)

Until another combination firearm comes along,Just carry what many people have. A decent single shot shotgun and a handgun in .22 or even .32 magnum combination are still a handy package.
I often carried a K 22 5 screw and and Winchester single in 28. Then somebody mentioned both were highly desireable and I sold them like an idjit.

Check out Thompson Center. They make the Contender and Encore. Frame is basic, but you choose the caliber (.22LR to .45-70 or 20 ga.). Contender can do rimfire also. Encore is centerfire only. They are available in rifle or pistol versions. And you can get black powder versions as well. Meets most of your requirements except for autoloading/bolt action. They are single shot only.

Biggest problem: it can be a bit pricey.

Be careful of the laws though. Short barrel (less then 16", 18" shotgun) on rifle stocked or registered frame is Federal Felony. California laws are different, so exercise more caution there.

I am not affiliated with Thompson Center Arms, and it is owned by Smith and Wesson.

Thompsons a fine weapons system. I owned an older unit with the shotgun/centerfire barrel that became illegal :O( Again, my critique of combination firearms or interchangeable barrels is actual field use. It takes an expert wingman, which I am not, to swing those clumsier combos well. And inevitably One is all set to pop a rabbit and a Tyrannosaurus Rex pops up instead and eats you while trying to switch the firing pin,barrel or squib to stopping round.And then there are the pagan biker gangs to consider.

It's an old dilemna. A irish warrior went out with his lighter hunting spear. his wife begged him to take the heavier war spear after a prophetic dream of his death in battle. He didn't, and was killed by his enemies.

Yep. And how are they against zombies?

Zombies are easy. You just hold up an autographed photo of Michael Jackson and they all start genuflecting.

the post by Chris about the spear points out the what the perfect fiream is--the biggest you can carry..
my idea of one is a rifle that you can pack away and forget.
an AR-7 with several box's of ammo in a semi-sealed pack that comes out once a year when the rations and batterys in the kit are swapped out seems the way to go.and here i'm talking survival and not bail out with the idea of living in the hills for the rest of your life--or whatever.

Even BIG has a point of diminishing return. I was in Alaska, perfectly happy with my Mauser in '06 and 220 grain rounds.

The gunsmith who fitted me out taught me a lot, and one day invited me to shoot a double rifle from his collection- a .500

I felt confident, I had become familiar with .375 H&H rifles and a .54 Hawken and knew how to properly mount a rifle and handle recoil.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! PAINPAINPAINPAIN!!!!!!!

Again, local survial situations dictate the best firearm package-if any. Personally, the continued Urban Assault Vehicle social phenomenon has me missing my most laughed at purchase- a H& R imported Greener harpoon rifle based on the Martini action- the one used in JAWS.

Henry Survival Rifle (updated AR-7) with ammo and cleaning kit, sealed in plastic, stashed in spare tire well.

I know there was legal issue regarding Thompson Center a few years ago, but the ones I recommend are currently on the federal level are OK and available in most states. (Thompson won the case.)

I actually purchased an M-6 when they were still on the market and it is a great little versatile weapon I use it all the time for plinking around. Definately not for big game but I have bagged lots of squirrels and rabbits with this gun.

50 cal hawken carbine flintlock. You can roll your own, including shot loads, squibb loads, and bear killers. In a pinch you can even make your own powder charge, provided you can find the necessary components.

I have a synthetic stocked NEF handi rifle rechambered to 30-40.
6.5lbs with a williams receiver sight.
220g round nose at 2100 fps, 150g at 2700 fps, or 170 grain
cast at 1700 fps.

Remove one screw and replace with 12 gauge
barrel then it's 5 lbs.

Or replace with 223 barrel open
sights youth model, 5.5 lbs.

Sometimes I carry an extra barrel in my pack if I have the
possibility of seeing both mammal and fowl when hunting.
I made a wool sleeve it fits in.

The perfect survival gun is a bit like the perfect survival knife. It doesn't exist. The perfect survival knife would split hairs and cut down mature oak trees with equal aplomb, but it won't happen. So you either compromise and carry a heavy chopping knife and keep it razor sharp, or you carry a small sharp knife and an ax or machete.

Likewise with a survival gun. You can't kill an elephant and a squirrel with the same weapon. At least, not if you want to have anything meaningful left of the mouse. And evidence suggests that guns aren't the best tool for protecting against a bear either. Furthermore, its a bit difficult to eat an entire deer by yourself without a deep freeze. Even if you set out to smoke the meat, you're looking at lots and lots of work to preserve it all. So the compromise I suggest (for most areas, Africa being the only exception I could think of) is to carry a can of bear spray in an easy to reach holster and a .22 pistol. Bear spray for protection against large animals (I doubt moose or cougars would be thrilled by a snout full of bear spray. In a pinch you could even use it against humans, although I'm not certain of the legality of that course of action. And the .22 for hunting and signaling. You can take down individually wrapped single servings of meat up to animals large enough to feed several, if you're skillful. And if you carry 100 rounds of ammo, you can afford to spend some doing the three shots regularly timed in short succession is a distress signal thing and still have enough to feed yourself with out breaking your back with the weight.

The bear spray and .22 pistol is a lighter more compact weapon. The extra weight is pretty small, and its not long and cumbersome to carry. Finally, it has the benefit of being easier to shoot while injured than a long gun. You can fire it one handed or while sitting or leaning in an awkward position.

On the other hand, like a survival knife, a survival gun is the gun you have with you when you're surviving. So if you regularly conceal carry a 9mm or .45 you should starting thinking about what you could hunt with it and how. If you're hunting deer what else can you take with your rifle, what other ammo should you carry to take down different game?

as long as we are back to pistols i'll ask again..has anyone see a 22 with a long barrel like Iver Johnson made back in the 50's 60's??..sort of looked like a starter gun with a foot long barrel--cheap enought to put into a kit and keep it there for survival use only--after you have done some practice with it of course--seems like the way to go..

I've several M6's in both .22lr/.410 and .22hornet/.410. one Save 24 .22lr/.410. 5 Savage 24C's .22lr/20gauge, one with a matching set of .22mag/20gauge barrels. I guess you could say I live the combo guns.
My favorite is the Savage 24C with the sets of barrels. That 24C is my go to camping gun and one of the guns in my emergency bag.
Add in my woodsEDC 686 plus .357 and I am very comfortable East of the Mississippi.

I am looking for a Savage 24 in .22 hornet/.410

Well, as far as I am concerned I am not back to pistols really, because I never left them! You see, what I do now is carry an Airlight S&W 22 caliber eight round revolver in a holster settled on my belt in the middle of my belt where its lightness is often forgotten till I undress at the of the day. And often I carry a very lightweight 20GA pump shotgun, too. This combination works for nearly everything except ideal personal protection from the quite possible ne’er do wells often encountered in remote areas that motor vehicles can still reach. So, what I have proposed is to somehow combine a 22 with a shotgun in one very light and convenient general purpose “survival” firearm but always carry a sidearm for the human threats that are possible. This cuts down on weight. Less weight to carry obviously translates into more energy to enjoy the great outdoors and increase the likelihood that you will have what you need when you need it. I think it excessive to carry two pistols plus the shotgun for routine outings and if two of them could be combined into one it would just be more sensible.

Well, as far as I am concerned I am not back to pistols really, because I never left them! You see, what I do now is carry an Airlight S&W 22 caliber eight round revolver in a holster settled on my belt in the middle of my belt where its lightness is often forgotten till I undress at the of the day. And often I carry a very lightweight 20GA pump shotgun, too. This combination works for nearly everything except ideal personal protection from the quite possible ne’er do wells often encountered in remote areas that motor vehicles can still reach. So, what I have proposed is to somehow combine a 22 with a shotgun in one very light and convenient general purpose “survival” firearm but always carry a sidearm for the human threats that are possible. This cuts down on weight. Less weight to carry obviously translates into more energy to enjoy the great outdoors and increase the likelihood that you will have what you need when you need it. I think it excessive to carry two pistols plus the shotgun for routine outings and if two of them could be combined into one it would just be more sensible.

I usually stay away from firearms threads, but to me the perfect survival firearm is a .22 LR rifle. Not a pistol, but a rifle.

Can anyone imagine those first caribou hunters who followed herds across the Bering land bridge ( and sometimes followed them back to Siberia) and what they faced? Prehistoric bears that stood AT THE SHOULDER taller than humans that could outrun a horse.This is why my military background gave rise to an early thesis of a largely coastal migration in skin boats ( accepted for my degree though dismissed by my chair who never once sailed the ocean.)
I am waiting for our cheecakos on 'THE ALASKAN EXPERIMENT' to blunder into the most deadly of alaskan mammals ( sourdoughs all agree the mosquitos and no see ums are the real killers)---A bull moose in rut.
Fact is, more people are injured or killed by moose in Alaska than all the polar,grizz,black and kodiak brownies combined.
"If we have a race war, I'm siding with the bears."- John Muir

Chris..i'll bet those Short Face bears were ho-hum to the Old Guys.."give him a lance in the ear and i'll finish off with my 357 leaf point"...

Echo that Chris. Unless I'm hunting, the ONLY reason I carry a rifle in the woods is moose in rut. A randy bull moose can destroy a Volvo, and he's just being romantic with it.

I'm squishier than a Volvo.

To answer the origional question I think what you describe has been invented some time ago. Its called a Ruger 10/22.

As I sit here doing some quick math I have concluded that my trusty Ruger 10/22 has:

(1.)Had over 10,000 rds put through it.
(2.)Has never needed a part replaced
(3.)Has stocked my freezer with countless tasty critters over the years.

It it reliable, reasonably accurate,easy to use and has only jammed a select handful of times usually due to being dirty or frozen while hunting rabbit at -50 deg cel. It dosen't break down like some models but I have yet to have a real reason that I would need it to. If a 10/22 is too bulky or heavy for you then you most likely don't belong in the woods to start with.

Spare Parts and ammo are virtually everywhere you can imagine and it is a gun that anyone can afford to own and shoot often as to build up a high level of skill. I can buy about 500 rounds of ammo for the same cost as about 10 rounds for my .338 L.

Its as close to the perfect survival gun as anything I can imagine. Everyone should have one.

Oh, and by the way. I, as some of you spend a lot of time hunting in dangerous game territory. IMHO, ANY gun you think is the final answer for self SD against a charging griz is nothing more than an expensive false sense of security. I have heard tell of people point blanking these monsters with .30-06 several times and still ending up geting mauled. I am not saying that a large bullet won't help, but in the long run the best defense you have against dangerous game is never to put yourself in its path. Know and respect your foe, and give it its space. Buying a survival gun out of fear of getting killed may be a waste of money if thats your biggest concern. Rutting Moose make plenty of noise so your best bet is to stay the hell out of his way rather than humping an artillery barrel on your back every time you hit the woods.

Just my thoughts

As I have told numerous folks who are heading to Alaska: The only firearm you need is a .22 pistol/revolver. If you are being attacked, all you do is knee-cap your partner -- you only have to be faster than one person...

I do agree about the 10/22..Great firearm. I put a Williams peep sight with a hooded front sight. Helped a bunch with improving my marginal accuracy.

Standard Disclaimer

2 cents

So why does it have to be a firearm?

Many places, an air rifle would work, or just a good ole bow with a quiver. Easier to replace broken parts in the woods too.

Personally, in 24 years of camping, I've NEVER carried a firearm into the woods. Absolutely never needed to. I have to agree with Taurus (welcome back, btw), there's a false sense of security with them.

OK, back on-topic. A .22 (I'm partial to a 10/22) probably works best. A buddy of mine had an old bolt-action with a 10-ish round magazine, and that was nice. Slap on a lighter stock (bullpup even?) and you've got a nice solid set up with greater range and only slightly worse weight. Of course, a .17HMR probably would work too.

The world record bear is a monster Polar killed by an Inuit with-- a 220 Swift.
I helped murder a Kodiak that became a danger to a local community.
The post mortim revealed old wounds holding 14 rounds ranging from .30 to .375 caliber, all poorly placed. I'd have an attitude too.
Later a butcher suffered a fatal heart attack and gently crashlanded his J 3 in a big meadow. When we arrived bears were everywhere eating black deer sausages, moose chops and caribou stew cuts. I discharged 17 of 20 .375 rounds I had ( read earlier post about private weapons supplamneting the Ithaca survival rifle) and they still ignored us. So, we waited until they were finished before moving in. I had my last 3 loaded, everybody's nervous and I'm laughing. If I had a belly full of black deer suasage why eat a stringy coastie?
After military service, I spent a season on Kenai doing bear surveys. We all checked out on the .375 H&H. More importantly, we learned how to avoid confrontations.
More bears are murdered annually than all the deaths of humans since records were kept.
In the RARE case of a bear charge the standard shot is one to the shoulder to break the charge and THEN a killing shot, or shots. For that a robust bullet of high sectional density; a 7MM 174 GR .30 220gr .357 350 gr etc. is best.
What is better, is to just be loud,obnoxious and behave like most people outdoors. Bears actually have rather high standards of who they socialise with. Drooling grizz on the cover of Outdoor Strife sell magazines, not common sense.

Thompson/Center: Rimfire Barrels for Encore and Encore Pro Hunter

So buy one of the sub caliber inserts, ie a 22 hornet/.22LR
This way we can spend half the day messing with infinite combinations while the forest bunnies put fingers to mouth, whisper SHHH!!!!! Man in the Forest and split for Miami.
KISS wasn't always an obnoxious heavy metal band.

Thanks! Was not aware that Encore went to rimfire also. Guess the only thing that is eternal is change.

I almost never in PA carry a sidearm, unless I'm on private land, and then it is generally a 45 LC revolver loaded with snakeshot x3 and two slugs. If I get into more trouble than that?

Well. I generally don't shoot the bears, I AVOID the bears by practicing good camping policies. Two legged crits, that's enough, unless I run into local militia on ops, or heavily armed weed farmers, both dangers I admit.

I like a .410 as I know how to shoot it, and the ammo is interchangable to a degree with 45 LC

Now the ultimate survival gun is one of those black rifles I see in the movies, 'cause I wouldn't have to carry any ammo! They fire forever, and hit anything you point them at, except a main character of course.

Realistically, even if I didn't have a pistol, which is probable, for weight I'd like a .22 rifle. And lots of ammo. I'd take the fact I can't shoot bears for the convenience of shooting a ton of small game.