The Alaskan Experiment

Has anyone else seen the TV show "Out of the Wild: The Alaska Experiment"?

They aired several episodes yesterday and I have to say it is a very good series if you ignore the technicalities of having camera operators hovering around a group of near starving people.

I watched it with my wife and daughter, and then afterwards had a good discussion about the gear that they had and used - and what did they not use.

Again, try to ignore the Hollywood sillyness and the technical issues of having camera operators and others hovering nearby. I'm focusing on the real learning aspects of the show.

So, here is some of the gear we saw as most important:

>>SPOT - all issues aside - each person carried a SPOT. That is how they "gave up" - by pushing the button and a helicopter would come a pick them up.
>>Topo map - they were given routes but had to follow them and a time table.
>>Baseplate compass
>>Whistle - Fox 40 micro whistle - hanging with the compass around their neck at all times
>>1 liter Nalgene wide-mouth bottle - wrapped with what looked like burlap - probably to keep it from freezing. They tended to carry them everywhere.
>>What looked like 30-50 gallon Sealline Baja dry bags
>>High Rubber cold-weather boots
>>Gortex (or similar) jackets - and maybe pants - I could see several different brand labels. I couldn't tell what they wore for insulation - probably some kind of fleece.
>>Sleeping bag
>>Thermarest RidgeRest closed cell pads
>>Large plastic tarps - the blue kind
>>Lots of hanks of green parachute cord - maybe 15-20' long - they used it for tarps, to lash shelter, to hold game,...
>>Pots - very important for boiling up game. At first they carried a dutch oven, but left it behind in favor of aluminum pots
>>In one scene they were using metal tongs to help cook.
>>Folding pocket knife - combo-edge - couldn't tell the brand - seemed to be a clip-point - used a LOT - for fire making and cutting up game - in one scene someone was using a knife to baton through a thumb-sized branch.
>>Estwing sports axe - the leather handled version - in one episode they showed someone sharpening it with a water-smoothed rock.
>>Large axe head - just the head - they used it as a wedge
>>In earlier episodes they had a bow saw, but it seemed to have disappeared in later episodes since they were chopping big logs - my daughter says she saw the bow saw in a later episode, but I don't recall that.
>>What looked like a Doan's magnesium ferro combo - it actually worked well after scrapping magnesium into paper.
>>410/.22 combo shotgun/rifle - the shotgun appears most important as they mostly lived off of ground squirrels and an occasional bird. Later they 'acquired' - it is TV - a .45 caliber rifle - they hadn't used it yet. My TV guide says that they try to bag a bear in an upcoming episode(??).

In the first few episodes there was a woman who quite because she was a control freak and couldn't work in the group. Then their most experienced outdoorsman also quit because he could not seem to handle being in a group of lesser experienced people - I hope he never tried to work with Boy Scouts. Then they had a 50 year old couch potato that found the hiking just too rough - though he really tried - and he quit.

One mistake they seem to be making is to split what food they have evenly - at least it seemed that way. That is resulting in the women getting enough food, but the larger men are struggling - not getting enough calories. By the end of the episodes they showed yesterday the women were doing pretty good, but the men were weak and one fainted. One of the stronger ones - the cop - finally made the decision to quit.

Sorry for the long post, but I find the show enlightening - especially for my daughter who watched.

Ken

I sat thru several episodes. It's not quite as contrived as the Survivor series but it's a setup for interpersonal conflicts.

I find it interesting that these groups generally seem to dismiss and drive off the people who actually know the most about what they are trying to accomplish. Happens in Survivor and it happened here too.

The Guide who bailed was correct about the 50 year old slowing them down and ultimately forcing them to spend the night under tarps in the wind on the pass rather than somewhere safer because the group decided that it would be mean to force the 50 year old out.

Groups are wierd. It's better to all be ignorant and suffer together than to listen to someone more knowlegeable. All opinions are equally valid - even when they are wrong.

The lesson I take away from this is that you'd better pick your companions carefully and if you know a lot more than they do - don't share your knowlege. They won't be grateful and may get mad at you and bad things could happen after that.

I've seen a couple of episodes, and they're carrying way too much junk.

A more realistic scenario would be " a plane carrying 9 tourists makes a forced landing and the passengers hike 60 miles out".

As far as the Spot goes, it's taped over so i don't think Spot has anything to do with the show, in fact, I don't think the thing even works. Looks like a staged "press the button", and the camera crew calls the helicopter.

- as far as the boots go, they look like Mucks.

I've worked on so called "reality" television shows, all I can add is this, the show's producers have gotten you talking about the show, which is it's own form of promotion which is what television is all about.

"Reality" television is anything but, I used to think that if people knew about the shenanigans that are going on off-camera that they'd get turned off to it but that doesn't seem to be happening. We've gone from knowing that the dramas and comedies weren't real to thinking that the "reality" shows were real only to find that they're not and now people watch them anyway, a full circle of product placement and promotions for stuff we don't need and can't afford.

And as for driving away the folks who know better and ignoring good advice and the food issues mentioned, I'll only add this, for each hour that's broadcast there are probably anywhere from 20 to 100 hours that were cut out. That's where you'll find the actual decision making taking place, the interpersonal conflicts that are being promoted by the producers etc. One show I worked on had dozens of cameras rolling virtually 24 hours per day for 21 days, net result was about 15 hours of aired content plus some crap posted on various websites and no doubt a "directors cut" available only on DVD some time in the future.

So who else is gonna watch Celebrity Apprentice tonight...?

Ken, as far as the equipment list goes, from what I caught they are carrying "One" map, compass, mag-stick, etc. No one really seems supplied fully.
I've only caught a few shows, so I may be wrong. But I did catch the one where the cop(?) got sick and was weak. To me that was easy, he caught the flu. You never take anyone from down south and throw them out in the field here without expecting that to happen.
I really wish they would stop these shows..........especially using Alaska.....

i also watched a few episodes for lack of anything better on the tube...i got a kick out of those folks struggeling to get a fire started and then spending a cold night without one...then i guess in the morning the older man of the group "tried" to use the DOAN mag. block but did not use it correctly ,only using the spark rod to try and fire up some damp grass/tinder...later the older women of the group came along and showed the hapless fellow to shave the magnesium and then use the spark insert to get the grass/tinder started...for me at least it was a decent show and i enjoyed watching a group of N.Y and N.J. city folks struggle in the bush...vince g. 11b (infantry)

Good seeing you around Vince! Been a while

The first episode showed the group being brought in, there was a tarp with all kinds of gear on it, some they should take other gear they should leave back, of course they tried to grab everything they could carry.

That is about the only episode I saw, I was flipping through last night and saw that it was on the entire evening, but I'm getting free movie channels this weekend so I'm watching other things

One the same note I saw an ad for Les Stroud and a show like this only with teenage kids anyone know anything about that?

Not a bad show. i have been watching it. I agree with the food parity issue. I was talking about this with DW. Mostly in context of people who are hunting and hiking for hours should be eating more than the people doing labor around camp. She disagreed but her version of camping is room service at the MGM in Las Vegas.

I do like that there is no 'winner', which makes the personal decision process that much easier for the person struggling.

Well, I watched half a dozen episodes. Watching them fumble and bumble around as they did would be a good reference for mostly what not to do. Giving a firearm to a person who has no idea how to really use it is not only a big waste, but a serious potential for disaster. That wasn't their worst mistake unfortunately, but it was immediately obvious. Watching them struggle as much as they did is a big plus for advertising to the gen pop that the average joe is not at all prepared to face the wilderness, even when they can equip themselves quite well and get a lot of help along the way. I do abhor the social elements of these sorts of programs. Like others said, the wrong people left the group for all the right reasons. I am surprised no one got really seriously injured.

They did give them some rudimentary training.

However I can't help but wonder if the timetables, locations, and time of year doesn't work against them as opposed to someone in a real survival situation. The participants are required to move on a set schedule. Even if they aren't ready, i.e. better nourished, rested, and repaired.

Given the time of year, how much game is actually available? Is there enough to provide adequate calories? Before they can learn the ways of a given location, before they learn the game trails, types of game available, etc, they have to move to a new place.

How realistic is that? Ideally, in that survival situation, you might stay in one place to accumulate adequate food stuffs, get rested, and work out all your problems before moving on. They are forced into actions dictated by those in an office somewhere, not by common-sense decisions made on the ground.

The timetable thing is what bothers me the most.

Tom A.

I caught several episodes. Interesting show. I don't think an unequal distribution of food would fly in a similar but real situation, though. How would it be decided? People all have different metabolic requirements, and an equal split is likely to be the default position that causes the least discord. The group dynamics ought to get more interesting as the stresses crank up.

If they'd had enough gun to harvest a bear, the food problems would have been a lot smaller. But as mentioned, the timetable would have worked against them.

The taking of a bear would be very dangerous if attempted with anything less than a 155mm howitzer. Which is probably why they didn't have enough gun and were likely told how (not)to deal with bears in great detail.

The new gun that they just recently aquired would actualy do OK against a bear. NOT GREAT, but OK.

I have to agree with the statment about the time table. The Producers or "experts" in this show are pushing them too fast.. Had I been on the show I would have stopped at the mossy cabbin and fed everone and rested longer to get everyones strength back up.

At the risk of ticking someone off, I have to add that I would have poched the beaver.. Is it illigal? YES, but when it comes between me living and following the poching laws, sorry. Though I will have to add that I am sure the camera people being around and the fact that they are not truly surviving makes it a bit larger of a legal issue.. though I still would have taken the meat.

I watch this show, though sometimes I feel like I am watching a train wreck in slow motion. I like it becouse I like to ask myself, "what woudl I do" or, "Could I realy handel that" and if I say no to something, or "i dont' know" I answer that question or strive to be better at what I would be lacking.

Tinfoil hat time: remember in the movie "The Truman Show" when Jim Carrey decides he wants to see the world? The travel agency was filled with posters and pamphlets about all the terrible things that would happen to him if he left the small town.

Maybe this show and others like it are trying to scare people out of the woods or something...

-Blast

I think we all can agree half the battle is knowing what to take with the other half knowing how to use what you took. And a fair amount of improvisation is always good too.

I watched some of the show yesterday, I think it was a marathon or somesuch thing. Hmmm... the shotgun won't work because it is dirty or broken. I never saw anyone trying to clean it, altho I saw one guy cussing it out. Yeah, that helped a lot.

Something else you should consider: any group is only as smart as the dumbest person there. Groups tend to dumb down to some extent. I know I wouldn't want to go the weeds with these clowns. They spend more energy talking about what they should do than doing it.

And they said these people recieved some training beforehand? Yikes. Pretty damn scarey.

That is exactly why I stay in my living room and watch the Discover Channel.

I heard it rained the other day ... yuck!

Just caught up on all the episodes this past weekend after reading of it here. Very good TV in my opinion.

the biggest thing i'm seeing with this group is the supermarket mentality when it comes to hunting. they bag one critter and then turn back. they should stay out until they have enough for everyone. Or if they catch something big, like the porcupine, send two people back with it and the rest keep hunting. I'm not saying they should strip-mine the place, but they definitely need to be a bit more aggressive about food.

I've found the show interesting, but not exactly compelling television. I wonder about the
"training" they received before the show started.

Also, does anybody recognize what kind of combination gun they are using?

If it's the same gun we're talking about, the narrator said it's a Savage .22/.410 combo. Sorry, I didn't catch the model number but should be easy enough to look up (does Savage even make more than one model of .22/.410 combo gun?)

In one scene, a guy was trying to shoot a ground squirrel (is that what one of the cast members was referring to as "gophers"?) and I wonder if he chose to use the .22 or .410 on it? He apparently missed since it scampered away. It looked like he had hit it, but I guess it was simply reacting to the sound of the gunshot when it jerked away. They didn't find any blood at that spot.

I watched short bits and pieces of different episodes this weekend, too. One thing that I was personally interested in were people's comments about how they felt. Most felt really crappy, beyond just hungry, due to lack of food.

I guess it's just on my mind because of those series of apparently shill posts recently about a certain product (Izzy's joke still rings in my ears, "IT'S PEOPLE! Lxxx xxxS ARE PEOPLE!"). I don't know if anyone else noticed, but putting aside the apparent product endorsement, the posts did also raise the issue of survival diets, which I have been thinking about recently anyway. The typical diet is high in refined carbs, including simple sugars, and most of us are accustomed to regular meals. Suddenly being put in a situation with little food, and pretty much no refined carbohydrates, can require a big adjustment. Until your body adjusts, you are going to feel awful or at least uncomfortable. Extreme fatigue, headaches, dizziness, are all things that the cast members were complaining about on the show. I didn't see the part where the guy faints, as Ken mentioned, but it's not surprising.

I personally have never seriously tried any of these diet plans, especially the hard core ones, so I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I was thinking as I watched these people on TV that in a survival situation, someone who is already on what could generically be referred to as a "ketogenic" diet might have a distinct advantage by being able to function at a higher level, particuarly in the early days of being stranded somewhere with little to no food. Ketogenic diets are diets that encourage a metabolic state that produces and primarily uses compounds called ketones rather than sugar (i.e. glucose) and this state is achieved by restricting your intake of carbohydrates or just food in general.

Ketosis is the state that your body naturally shifts towards when starving or fasting so it is a natural reaction to lack of food or diets mostly devoid of carbs. More hard core ketogenic diets include Atkins or Protein Power, while more moderate version would be South Beach. In addition, people who regularly fast, whether for health or spiritual reasons, would likely also be more accustomed to a lack of food in some survival situation and might function better if suddenly thrown into a survival situation with little to no food, or forced to rely on a survival diet skewed towards eating only game meat. You can feel pretty crappy when transitioning from a high carb diet to a state of ketosis, although some people make the switch more easily than others. But in the meantime, doing things like hiking 8 miles with a 50 pound load like on the show while going through this metabolic transition is going to be really rough on most people.

This will make benjammin happy, but this ketosis topic is why a survival food like Pemmican makes sense. If getting gobs of carbs, or even enough total calories, are going to be a problem, which is likely out in the wild, then your body is going to shift to a ketogenic state anyway, which can be an uncomfortable transition if you're not used to it. It can take weeks for some to fully make the transition and feel good again. But once in that state, you can do quite well on a high protein and fat food like Pemmican. Shorter term, even just the protein part could be sufficient for our bodies, I think, because our bodies can use the ample fat stores that most of us carry around. Longer term, though, getting sufficient calories from food becomes an issue if our love handles are no longer so full of loving anymore. That's when other topics like "rabbit starvation" start to become an issue.

It's a good idea to test out your survival/emergency food just so you know how you'll react. Can you personally function on just 1,600 calories of day from those 3-day lifeboat rations like Mainstay bars? Can you tolerate eating MRE's as your sole food source for days? Do you end up with diarrhea or constipation when eating your emergency supplies? It probably makes sense to encourage average people to store foods similar to what they are already accustomed to eating. Fewer surprises that way. An emergency is not the time to discover that your emergency food supply really does not agree with your gut or body or that you feel really, really awful if you're not eating your normal foods or eating as often as you're used to.

And, for the record, I'm not necessarily advocating ketogenic diets as a healthy everyday diet. No one really knows if they're healthy over the long term, like over decades, especially in our later years. I'm just saying that if I were going to be on this TV show, I think I might go on the Atkins diet diet in the weeks leading up to the show so I can look goooood on TV without fainting.

Gun #1
Looks like a Remington-Spartan model 94 .22/.410 to me.
I believe they were also given a .45-70 in one of the latest episodes.

well said, though i'd advise leaving a few weeks to fatten back up before going out. i've gotten over that hump twice recently, and it's amazing how fast you shrink once you really start consuming your reserves.
yeah 1600 in fine if you're not moving around. they are life boat rations afterall. MRE get a lot of flak, but i like em and would be quite happy with a diet of MREs.



will burlap provide enough insulation for that? i figured it was just to cover the brand label.

Actually Arney, ketogenic diets have been debunked as a long term diet plan. But your synopsis is very accurate.

I think with the cop who fainted and left the show there was several factors other than diet that affected him, but the diet was a big factor.

He was as far as I could tell the heaviest of the group. It seems he was only getting an equal share of the food, which someone else has mentioned earlier in the thread here. Group dynamics had, IMHO, a lot to do with this but he should have got more food than the lightest person.

He was not used to the rigors of the terrain or environment. I believe he mentions this in one of his video journal entries. Between the 'hiking', extreme weather and probably some altitude sickness he was hurting for the start.

He was carrying more weight than anyone else in his pack at 60 lb. compared to people carrying 10-20 lbs less. I think two factors at play, 1st an assumption of the group based on his size he could/should carry more, 2nd as a police officer he is ingrained to help the weak and would assume more responsibility.

Having seen all the epi. one thing I have not seen is 'A' leader emerge or someone elected leader. Leaders yes, but this group is still being run by committee and no good can come of that.

A long time ago I was on a hike in the BC fjords with a co-ed group of high schoolers. We started on our first big meal in the bush, and everyone was keen to get their share, and the guide was quick to point out that not only was I to be the first one in line, but that I was also the first to get any second helpings if there were any. His explanation was that I was given the rope and probably had the heaviest pack besides because I was the biggest person in the group, and if anyone else wanted to volunteer to take the rope from my pack and carry it on theirs instead, they would get the same treatment. No complaints, and no volunteers to carry the rope. I chowed well the whole of the hike, but I paid for it.

i'm watching this weeks' episode right now.
she's playing with the severed heads! she's finally snapped and it's awesome.!

The reality of how difficult it is to be a proficient hunter/gatherer will make the pickiest of eaters resort to dastic measures to get by. Ironic.

With 2 trying to gather food, and the rest sitting on their butts pity-potting themselves, I think I would be walking around pushing their "Spot buttons" whether they liked it or not.

After the 2nd day of me feeding 5 other people I would probably be slapping some around.....

Resurrecting this thread because the last episode of the season is on Tuesday night, and also because I saw the supply list here:

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/out-of-the-wild/supply-list.html

and wondered what others would bring for their "one" personal item.

For me, it was a bottle of high potency multi-vitamins. Or maybe a bottle of Ibruprofren, or maybe a bottle of rum (the girls seemed particularly fond of it).

I'm not going anywhere without my Leatherman (except maybe the grave).

I asked my wife to bury me with it and she quickly insisted that she wasn't going to put a perfectly good Leatherman in the ground.

The list doesn't include the fire starter (sparker) that they were seen using on the first (or second) day. Huh.

I laughed at the condoms after reading Ben's post. Yes I know condoms can be used to carry water, or to protect small items from wetness! (pun intended):)

Wasn't that a doans tool or a clone?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31MAPqsZvmL._SL500_AA280

Yup. The woman who left first (I think) was the one who shaved off some magnesium and got the first fire going.

After watching all the episodes so far, I have to say that the “Yukon pack” is what would make me tap out. That thing is reason enough to stay put in a survival situation.

Doesn't look comfortable to me! I know I'd hate to carry one. Also looks like they have no idea on how to pack, or ways to lighten their gear.

True.

On their first day I bet if there'd been a BRICK in the pile of stuff they would have carried it.

Does anyone know where the shoulder straps for these Yukon Packs came from? I've been toying with the idea of using my sleeping tarp as my backpack but didn't know what to use/how to attach the shoulder straps.

-Blast

Blast, If i have watched the show correctly and recall some backcountry lore, after everything is wrapped up in the tarps they use whatever lengths of cordage available to secure the load and create the shoulder loops.

A few of them have wrapped some burlap around the cordage straps and then duct tape on top of that for some padding on the upper chest, shoulders.

I haven't seen the show, but I saw one inch nylon webbing used for this. The center is laid outside the wraps, and the ends are tucked underneath. The diagram doesn't show it, but the ends are tied down near the centerpoint of the webbing.

Uncle Goo,

Okay, I see how that works. Hmmm, I think I (and by "I" I mean the DW) could sew up some sort of adjustable, compression-strap system out of webing that could wrap around the parcel.

Thanks!
-Blast

I would be far more interested in the hip strap. I would desperately prefer not to have to carry the load (70 lbs) on my shoulders for a 3 to 6 mile hike on rugged terrain! A decent hip belt would be far better. I did not see any of the packs on the show with a hip strap. Ugh.

I thought the end of the show was fairly anti-climactic. Basically they break out of the wilderness into a summer camp next to a railroad and that's it? What about a post adventure synopsis interview? I bet the gal that quit on the day before they finished the trip was pretty disappointed with herself. Their last meal was a family of squirrels. You'd have thought that the producers would have at least left them something special. Oh well, I guess suffering through 28 days of survival and then getting back to civilization is reward enough.

I would suspect, and maybe I am wrong, that there will be a final episode to discuss what they went through and get everyone together one more time. Discovery Channel is pretty good with that stuff. There is one next week for the wrap up on Deadliest Catch which was one the hour before.

I believe with the show Les Stroud did, though different format, also did a follow up show.

I was also a bit disappointed in the finale. I came to the conclusion that somehow information was passed to the players through the film crew or a producer over the course of the show.

WHY do I think this?

They did not get to set the time of their stay in shelters. So either it was a note we did not see, included with the map or someone told them they could only stay a two days or whatever.

When the bear guide showed up the first time, it was technically the first person they had seen in a couple weeks aside from the show crew. I believe that the players if they had not met the guide in their training at least knew to expect him. The second time he showed up, I don't know, the way they acted leads me to believe maybe they did not expect him again.

After following the map for as long as they did between shelters with little deviation, to suddenly stop at a railroad track seems suspicious and wait for a train seemed odd. It leads me to believe that they were counseled to stick around.

I agree that this was inconsistent. For that show their mission became to get rescued by finding civilization.

Previous episodes was all about surviving rather than being rescued. Moving from places of good, known, shelter to places of unknown resources on command isn't a good way to survive.