A defense of the Doan

Hey guys, lurking here for some time, got sucked in by a post about ulus, I've learned a lot from all of your work, and not sure what I have to give back, but...

What's the matter with the DOAN magnesium block as a firestarter? Man I love the thing.

Benefits:

They are cheap. I'd rather throw 10 firestarters everywhere in my gear, than rely on one. Honestly? Mostly I start my fires with a lighter when I'm not in an emergency situation. And I have tinder and good wood and everything set.

Magnesium. With a knife you can do lots of things with a solid block of magnesium.
Detriments:

you need a knife, or a sharp key to make them work. Well... if we don't have a knife? I know some of you are flint knappers, but I seldom don't have a blade. They do let me take my doan on the plane, though, and not even my sak...

the magnesium shavings blow away in the wind. BS, not doing it right, collect them in some tinder. Or some fiber, or a bowl, or something. Having the magnesium block makes lots of things viable tinder that wouldn't be otherwise. Damp pine needles, damp bark, live grass. They'll all go up with contact to a magnesium flame.

You of course, have to be able to make a fire after that.

The true story is I was up on Lions Head Mt. Washington, and we badly misjudged our return time, and the weather turned nasty. It was getting cold, and windy, and dark, and we decided better to stay over than hike out. Did I mention cold windy dark? Both our bick lighters failed, and there was not much to make a fire with up there as far as tinder with the matches we had. I must have spent 20 minutes shaving magnesium into a coffee filter (see no wind problem!) to light up what wood we had (scraped up chopsticks and flotsam for tinder) and I'm convinced it saved our .

I really like the firestrike, but if you come hiking with me, know that there is a doan block in pretty much every piece of gear I have, I'd sew one into my socks if I could (hmmm... there's an idea)

best,

JB

Nothing wrong at all with mag blocks. You can make lots of fires with one, and they are relatively inexpensive and foolproof. They do require two hands to work, and they aren't fully waterproof. But hey, they are good kit, and one of several options.

I have a magnesium rod with a ferrocerium striker anchored to it glued into a piece of antler with a leather thong and a piece of hacksaw blade in one of my kits. This is in addition to a couple lighters and a Couglans firemaker tinder kit.

The only thing I would like to add is a good piece of willow, some ash dowel, and a cedar fireboard.

quite right, I think you should, and a flint and good striking steel? And perhaps a fresnel lens. to be safe.

And if you can guess I'm kidding, a bit.

My ideal fire starter? Is honestly superman's lazer eyes. but no matter how I concentrate....

thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

I like the Doan magnesium blocks too.
The block is just large enough for a good grip.
My only complaint with them is the rod wears out long before I ever use up the block, but that is still a lot of strikes and as you say they are not really expensive items...
___
MFD.BY DOAN MACHINE AND EQUIP. CO. LTD.
P.O. BOX 21334
SO.EUCLID, O. 44121

ps. They make good key fobs.

Yeah, there is one on my keys

scafool, they do. Make good key fobs.

Well they ain't perfect, I must say, and for every day use as a fire maker? yeah I'd choose something different. They are cheap enough where I found them, though to make sure most of my gear has one of them hanging around. It payed off for me once.

I'd prefer to have a good fire starter everywhere I look, and two backups in my bag. Aside from a knife fire is the crux of survival for me. I can get by without one, but both?

I can't afford, though to scatter good knives throughout my gear yet.

I've got a good feeling about general Mobatu from nigeria, I might just be coming into several million dollars! All I have to do is e-mail him all my personal and bank account information. how could I lose on this deal

best
J

maybe the reason they get the stink eye is that thier not hip and cool or the latest and greatest anymore...like all of our survival family out there i have all the latest fire starting tools and toys that i could find in the outdoor catalogs and then some...i come back to the mag.bar (real doan) fire starter, i scatter them thru out my kit and jeep...the thing is you have to practice every so often with it so you can use it to good efect...and if the U.S. military still use it after all these years that says alot for this small item of worthy kit...vince g. 11b inf..

Please, no profanity or vulgarisms. ETS holds awards for being kid friendly. And do not post tricks that may be potential vandalism.

With time, you'll post as well as you make DOAN fires.

sorry i was'nt aware i had made a negative comment..please Chris could you tell me how i'm wrong..i truly did'nt mean to offend anybody with my comment really..vince g. 11b inf..

You didn't. It was the OP, nd it's no big deal.

Nothing at all wrong with the magnesium blocks. I have used several and they are, IMHO, a step up from most spark rods because they incorporate spark and tinder in one compact package. I had one corrode to nothingness when left in warm-moist conditions, welcome to Florida, and in contact with less noble metal. Rookie mistake.

I still have the second I bought and it is almost new. I lit a fire with it just to confirm I remember how.

I think these units get little notice because, despite the fact they work well, they are simple, cheap and, profit margins are low on them. Sales would go up if a hero in a major movie used one.

The reason they get a bad rap is becuase they dont' work well as well with the sharp side of a stainless steel knife. And doing so screws up your edge. *eyeroll* That being said, one of my favorite strikers for any ferro rod is the awl in a SAK, so...

But if you have one, carry a didcated striker, or even better, a nice, short, high carbon steel bastard file. It will get the flakes off, and it will strike. After that, a bit of cheapo hacksaw blade.

Chris, I suspect I spelled out BS. My fault. I'll be careful in the future not to fudge up the forum with darn profanities! thanks for being understanding.

And thanks everyone for your comments.

Yeah, Ironraven I think I use my awl for that more than almost anything else.

Hi all,

I use a Mag Block/Ferro Rod combination occasionally but have only used the Coghlin version. I have read that the epoxy holding the rod on is weak, other than that is there any other difference compared to the Doan Mag block? Is the Doan made of softer Magnesium because the Coghlin version seems hard?

Thanks,

Mike

I really don't like them b/c I've had numerous issues with the mag not being that good - in other words, barely worth the effort. I'd rather throw a Hotspark into a 35mm tin with vaseline gauze. Presto, you're own striker/tinder block.

Blowing away mag shavings? Yeah, ok, it happens. My thing is using a file, or peeling off shavings with a knife, either way they go up so freaking quick that my other tinder doesn't have a chance to catch. I've personally had better luck with regular old birch bark. though I suppose I could try the mag shavings on the birch and see what happens.

My other big gripe is that with the big bar of mag, I find it hard to aim the flint easily. Resulting in awkwardly-aimed sparks.

Okay, idiot question:

What's the difference between the DOAN and the Coghlans magnesium fire starter (with which I have a love/hate relationship)?

Light me up (with wisdom, not FMJ+tracer, thanks).

I had ones made by Coghlan's and ones made by Doan.
The only difference I could see was the Coghlan's had Coughlan's stamped into them and came in a blister pack while the Doans were loose in a bin at a surplus store and cost about me about half as much as the Coghlan's did.

Like I said, my only complaint with them was that the spark rod wore out.
(I think you guys who use the cutting edge of your knife for spark striking should file or grind a small section of the back to a square edge and use that instead.)

What I don't understand about the criticism about the magnesium shavings blowing away is that does not the same thing apply to most tinder?

The popular ones are cotton ball and vaseline or lint and vaseline which seem to me to those blow away fairly easily as well.


Maybe you find them easier after they blow away?

It's typically a lot easier to keep a single interconnected "bird's nest like" ball of cotton tinder from blowing away, than a few individual small flakes of magnesium that need to be kept together to work to their full potential. With that said, it's not impossible to loose a ball of cotton, nor is it impossible to keep a pile of magnesium flakes together.


Anyway, I've got a magnesium block fire starter that belonged to my uncle. He gave it to me when I was a kid and taught me how to use it. It was well used when I got it and is probably over 30 years old. I keep it in my truck as part of my vehicle kit. Last time I took it out and tried it, it worked just fine to light an outdoor campfire under normal conditions. Would I rely on it as my only fire starting method? Nope. Is it worth keeping around? In my experience, yes. Your mileage may vary, so to speak.

I think a lot of people buy these things from military surplus stores, have no idea how to use them, and expect them to easily light a fire under just about any condition. Suffice to say, it doesn't work like that. It's like any survival tool; you practice with it until you can use it in your sleep, you learn its limitations, and you decide if it's worth carrying, keeping in your backup gear, or just getting rid of it. Everyone has different experiences with various tools and supplies, you have to decide what works for you.

The file on my Wave makes quick work of getting nice filings. And you can use the edge to strick parks. In fact, almost any sharp edge can be used. I've generated sparks with small rocks and broken pieces of glass.

BTW, regarding white corrosion due to humidity. Apply a coating of clear nail polish on the mag bar to prevent contact with the air. The coating scraps off easily when the bar is needed.

I've never really cared for them. As far as the ferrocium rod goes, that's OK but I've always struggled with getting a decent amount of magnesium filings scraped off to do any good. For me the time spent making a decent bird's nest of natural tinder outweighs the effort to scrape the mag block and gather the filings. The greatest thing the mag block is in my mind is that it provides a convenient holder for the ferrocium rod and that's about it.

JMHO, to each their own on this one. There are other fire starters out there with other types of tinder (cotton balls /w vaseline, dryer lint, commercial tinder, etc.) that are more worth while than the mag block. If it's the ONLY thing you have, then you make do with what you have. Otherwise plan and use your best tools.

The other fire starter I never really found much use for was the fire piston. Yes, it does work, yes it produces a small amount of burning embers but the amount of ember is small and is less valuable that other fire starting methods but again, it its the last thing you have, then you make do.

My only complaint with the the magnesium block is the bulk. I ran one through a tile saw leaving just a few mm of magnesium next to the ferro rod and started carrying it much more often, leading me to use it much more often.

Magnesium shavings, in and of themselves, leave quite a bit to be desired as tinder...they do blow away and burn very quickly. Where they really stand out is when they're added to other tinder. And, as somebody has posted before, one can always scrape magnesium shavings / filings on to the sticky side of a piece of duct tape.

If somebody is going to cut down a magnesium block with a water-cooled saw, do so very slowly. You don't want the magnesium to heat up since burning magnesium and water is a death wish.

Hey Yelp,

I did the same thing as you and cut a Mag block down to a smaller size with a hacksaw. I then held the shortened magnesium block on my knee and filed the edges smooth, this left a very small pile of magnesium on the top of my pants.

"I wonder if that would light if I struck a spark", D@mn that stuff is hot! I burnt a hole through a good pair of pants and got a 1/2 inch blister on my skin. Not the stupidest thing I have ever done, but getting there.

Mike

According to the anecdotal data, the Doan uses a better glue on the ferro rod. Based on my own observation, I would say that they aren't quite the same chemically- the oxidation layer is thicker and a lighter grey on the Coghlans, and it seems to be a little softer.

Lately I've been making small self contained starters consisting of one PJCB sealed in a piece of duct tape. Sometimes it takes 2 pieces in a cross to cover a large PJCB. When you need it, you cut an X in it, and pull out (and fluff) the cotton ball. If you sprinkled a little mag on it before lighting.... Hmmm... I could do the same thing before closing up the duct tape. Something else to try!

I find my Coghaln’s mag. block to be a good choice. Not ideal, but very good. I would say its valuable advantage is that you don´t carry tinder and rod separately.

Another advantage is that once the spark hits the magnesium shavings you get a flame. This becomes important during freezing temperatures. Last year in winter it took me suprisingly long to light very fine pieces of birch bark using Strike Force because the tinder was very cold. I believe If I had used a bit of magnesium shavings I could have had a fire in no time. Magnesium just reacts immediatelly.

When it comes to long burning tinder, magnesium (from the Coghlan’s block) is not good at all but like I said it is an excellent accelerator and I use it as that (ferrocerium rod -> spark -> magnesium shavings as accelerator -> tinder -> kindling -> gathered wood (even wet).

The wind can be a problem. The cotton balls, Tinder-Quik etc. can be pierced with a piece of twig and pinned down to the ground and so on. So I agree that in windy conditions you could be better off with something different than mag. shavings but it´s doable.

In winter I would take Strike Force as my nr. 1 firestarter (it has quite long burning tinder cube inside) though. Sometimes you don´t have time for scraping magnesium and making sure it won´t blow away (for example when you fall through the ice and need fire immediately).



Good story, thanks for sharing it. It´s good to hear that having the mag. block saved the day. However I think if you had had for example Strike Force with you, its tinder cube inside the handle would have solved the problem in less than one minute . That´s why I like it so much. It pays to carry one at least in the backpack. I reccomend checking it out. Or check out their tinder (named WetFire) - you could carry at least the tinder cube in addition to mag. block. Like I said for me the mag. is mainly an accelerator rather than regular tinder. But it´s just my personal preference.

Magnesium fire starters are just fine but you have to understand the magnesium is really no substitute for proper tinder. All it does is make sure the tinder ignites reliably (even if it's slightly wet and not prepared perfectly).

Yes, the shavings have to be sheltered from the wind, just like any other tinder. If you need something more convenient, get a Zippo or a windproof butane lighter. I carry the magnesium block only for backup and in that regard, it's every bit as good and probably better than a plain ferro rod.

And I think that is what a lot of the "mag blocks are poo" camp misses. Nothing that short lived is tinder, just an ignition source. Maybe a secondary ignition source, but still.

I like the Doan but what I do is pre-shave a ton of it and pack it into a watertight matches container. Inside the cap I put 2 tinder-tabs. Should I need to break out the magnesium it's likely cold or wet and in those situations I don't want to be fumbling around with shaving on the spot.

I agree with Roarmeister almost totally, and when he says:



That is exactly what I like about the magnesium block too.
I have never actually had to depend on the magnesium shavings to get the fire going and have only bothered doing it to see how well it worked.
Whether that testifies to my superior skills as a woodsman I don't know.
I like bic lighters and candle stubs for fire lighting an awful lot too.

A potential problem with pre-shaving the magnesium is that you are increasing the surface area that can oxidize (the white coating). If the container is seals and/or kept dry this will me minimized. But you may want to replenish periodically to make sure you have good shavings when you need them.

I considered pre-shaving onto Vaseline coated cotton balls. Has anyone done that?

BTW, it's not just an accelerant, magnesium burns super hot, much hotter than any other tinder you would carry. That's why it's effective in igniting your kindling. Magnesium ignites at
473 °C, 883 °F. and burns at 2200 °C, 4000 °F

Magnesium applied in combination with other tinders works well

if the shavings remain on the surface (think sparklie donuts.)

Again, every ignition and tinder system is fighting the same foe

that would keep us cold; rain,snow, wind, darkness, fatique, reduced

coordination from the cold, fear. I still argue it's the second

step, primary fuel that is actually more critical. Like carrying

water, we are compelled by simple wieght and volume to carry

enough to see us through to a more secure resource. My SPARKLITE

and tinder tab'passes the torch' to a handfull of fatwood. And,

newly included in my german daysack in the two side pockets that

never held my water bottles quite right,6 splits of @ 8" x 2"x2"

seasoned oak now reside.

At my age, I can still outwalk most anybody ( it's called

dawdling a lot and passing on those click counting cammie

commando 'worry beads' sold by the soldier of misfortune crowd.)

I sit down to make camp, I don't want to get cute with woo woo

firemaking using ice lens by moonlight, or expect Mother

Nature to have a cord of firewood at hand, happy if there is

some wet stuff I can dry sufficiently with my own supply.

The DOAN is a good tool. Compact and of good quality. I have used and like them.They are my second choice after a ferro rod. However I think that many people are put off by the instructions on the packaging.

The dig a hole. Scrape shaving into a hole etc instructions.

Doesn't work. At least not reliably.

I carry a ferro rod with me 24/7. 365 days of the year. Either a scout sized model or a full sized rod. For a practiced individual like myself it's the best choice. However I always carry artifical tinder. Normally that is 3 tinder-quick in a pill fob. I also carry either wet-fire cubes or some form of esbit cube. Lot of BTU's in a very small package. Only reliable method of igniting damp kindling that I know of or am willing to bet my life on.

One of my basic assumptions (which thus far has been proven correct)is that you will either have the leasure to find suitable tinder, carve feathersticks, baton some wood etc or you will not. In other words it's raining/snowing and the temperature is going through the floor. You either get a fire going in the next couple of minutes or you die. Chances are, unless you have forward planned and carried tinder with you, that it's going to be the latter.

Frankly, your better off treating the DOAN as a high quality emergency ferro rod with a magnesium grip. If you have the leasure to use the magnesium, that's a bonus.

You are right, that´s good thing about magnesium, however at the same time it burns for a short time. Several minutes of scraping the Coghlan´s block gives me a flame lasting around 3 seconds. That´s why I use it almost exclusively as an accelerator. If everything is dry, the mag. shavings alone suffice. But if I need to dry some wet wood up I will have to scrape the mag. for several tens of minutes to get a long lasting flame.

However Izzy recently posted a thread about firestarters where the ferro. rod is glued to a soft magnesium cylinder and from the demostration video it looked very promising - several strokes with small saw generated big pieces of magnesium that then burned for a long time ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzkJQZFyfVQ ). Some day I will have to get it to see it for myself. Have you already tested it, Izzy?

I would say one can´t go wrong with magnesium block, you have ferro. rod plus the magnesium. If you don´t like (scraping) magnesium, you can just leave it there and use only the ferro. rod with tinder you carry for it. If you happen to be without tinder or just need an accelerator for something that is not fibrous etc., you can use the magnesium. So it´s quite good backup tinder/accelerator that´s always with you if you carry the mag. firestarter. Therefore I think mag. firestarters have advantage over the classic ferro. firestarters like Swedish Firesteel because of this "layer" of backup. Just my perspective. (Note that I am not comparing mag. firestarter vs. lighter/whatever, just magnesium firestarter vs. classic sheer ferro. rod.)
Actually I have been thinking about chipping a big piece of magnesium off the Coghlan´s block and putting it into the Strike Force compartment along with other tinder (instead of the WetFire). This way I would have more options, as far as tinder is concerned.


What exactly happened? I can´t imagine how dropping mag. block into a campfire would result in a wildfire. Unless it exploded or something like that .

Yes, this is good stuff. And my defense of the Doan, isn't really that it is the best fire starter ever, but that it is cheap, and a good thing to have around.

Now lets talk about magnesium with other tinder. I've lit a nest of soaked pine needles with mag flakes judiciously sprinkled within.

Magnesium isn't a tinder. But it makes other things viable tinder. If I was alone in the woods in a Bad Time, I'd gather bark, Leaves (bad tinder), twigs, and anything else I laid my eyes on. They are all wet.

Most of them will burn if exposed to a magnesium burn, and it gets me to a wood fire.

in any survival situation, the third thing I want to do is have a sustainable wood fire.

And I don't care if it is raining, hailing, deep horor, for survival, you require a sustainable wood fire.

I like mag. bars and have them in several personal and vehicle kits. I've not got the experience of many on this forum, but am surprised by some of the comments in this thread, many of the "problems" are easily dealt with by fairly obvious solutions.
Sparking Mag bars dull knife blade? Don't use the blade, use the spine of the blade, nice square corners on the back of the blade will generate great sparks.
Shavings too fine? cut off bigger ones. Use a saw or file of a multi-tool, or knife blade to shave big pieces. I find the saw blade is ideal, give bigger pieces and faster, too.
Wind blows them away? Put shavings on a piece of duct tape and stick it to the tinder, bark or whatever. Or put mag shavings on a bandaid from your FAK, and maybe some PJ on the cotton pad, stick it to the bark or other tinder. Duct tape and bandaids burn well, too.
Can't use it one handed? I've practised, and found ways to do so. Not easy, but can be done with effort.
I think the mag bar properly used is a great fire starting aid. As always we should carry at least three different ways to start fires, and know how to improvise others if necessary. IMHO the mag bar should be one of the three.
Just my thoughts.