Principle & Back Up Survival Knife

Over here in the UK the favoured fixed blade is the "scandi" grind bushcraft knife, much like:
american bushman

I enjoy backcountry travel, particularly in Utah & Arizona and generally by canoe. I am thinking of moving to a "survival" type knife that is happy on or near water all day and also to add a back up (probably a neck carried fixed blade). Can you recommend any US blades?
ATB
Moab

Obviously for water use a stainless steel blade with a grippy handle has attractive advantages.

If you are traveling between the UK and US, the inevitable hassles of a knife in luggage will occur.

I would consider a inexpensive SS Mora with the rubber grip from www.ragweedforge for a neck knife. You can buy it here, and if it should become a casualty of airport security something you won't unduly mourn.

Note the word "unduly". I'd still be mad and mourn if my Mora got swiped from my checked luggage.

My personal favorite Moras are the #746 (4") and #748 (5 3/4"). I really like the feel of the handles and the very slight finger guard. They make especially excellent sheathed kitchen knives - I use them in my travel trailer kitchen (we keep 2 746's, 1 748, and 1 749 - the 749 is great for watermelons).

Here is a review of the loner #749:

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/butcher_puukko.html

Here is a review of the Mora #2000 - which a lot of folks really like too:

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/mora_2000.html

Spyderco has a few diving models that are supposed to stand up to salt water use. I think they might be a Japanese company though.

Probably not the best knife choice, but since the original Kabar USMC knife (as we think of them) was on the hips of lots of Marines in the Pacific, I think it should stand up fairly well to water, or at least, rainy conditions.

The Mora 2000 is a good choice for about 31.00. Also you may want to look at either a SOG Field Pup for 45.00 or a SOG Seal Pup Elite 90.00. Both are AUS 8 stainless and will hold up pretty well in wet conditions. Although, as you likely know, all blades can rust.

For an easy to carry neck knife, there's the Buck Hartsook, 38.00, which is small but very light and is made of S30V stainless. The RAT Izula or BK 11 are heavier duty options made of 1095 carbon steel. One final option is the Benchmade Instigator at 45.00 for a neck knife made of AUS 8.

Good choices for a water knife, at very reasonable prices are the gerber river runner and the gerber river shorty. I own the river runner. It's 3 inch blade is partially serrated with a sharp tip (river shorty is all serrated with a blunt tip) with a good grip.

And the sheath is excellent. Holds the knife securely, but it comes out with a tug, and allows for multiple carry options. You wouldn't want to shave with the blade, but for most purposes it's sharp enough.

And the price is right - including shipping on either amazon or ebay the cost is about $27. I've taken it with me on hikes and it's performed fine. I haven't gone scuba diving with it (yet) but it will function fine as a dive knife.

A very fine neck knife is the buck mayo kaala - one piece of S30V steel, three inch blade, and again a good sheath. Unlike many neck knives, this one won't fall out. I got lucky and got mine awhile ago on ebay for about $40, including shipping.

Mdinana

Any piece of kit will 'stand up.'

it's a simple matter of maintenance.

MOAB is seeking a knife for USA use ( as I read into his post.)

This doesn't restrict it to our own domestic efforts, we having

The happy situation of knives from around the world readily m

marketed. So, if Moab has an addresshere to receive one via mail

it's going to be shopping.

Moab, I try to stay away from recommending knife choices to people.
There are too many choices and personal opinions, but if you are looking for a classic American style I might suggest looking at Buck Knife's Woodsman or 119 Special knives.
The 119 is a Bowie style blade.
The Woodsman and Pathfinder are smaller and lighter versions of the pattern. They are handier for general use in my opinion.
Buck might not have the cachet of a fine custom blade but it does not have the price either.
Another fairly good brand of mass produced blades is Cold Steel.

Of course the Mora knives are still the best deal for a bushcraft/utility knife when you balance cost and quality.

Sometimes I almost laugh at our 'situation.'

I remember 30 years ago, you wanted a knife and it was

a CASE,SHRADE,MARBLES or BUCK from the display at the hardware store.

Oh, SAKS were for sale, and KABARS or old Hickory from the

kitchen section. And while I know there were lots more even then,

That really sums up the choices.

Stainless Steel was this new stuff that wouldn't sharpen and

your handle was wood,leather, horn or an extra $5 for pretty

stippled antler. The sheath was leather, sharpening was

spelled ARKANSAS and maintenance 3 in 1 oil.

How did we ever make it out of the woods?

I remember those days. Anything more than a 4 or 5" fixed blade that wasn't a kithen knife was a mil surp bayonet. Usually the biggest knife anyone carried was a Stockyard model. I recall I packed an SAK only because having a spare philips driver in my pocket was handy up at the radio sites or in the potato fields working on GE Mastr IIs and Motorola Micors.

Does customs really give people a hard time about knives?

I used to (15 years ago) take a Puma Skinner with me all the time to Canada, and a Buck folder to England several times, and customs never even blinked at them.

Have times changed that much?

Dave

Little off topic but I saw some very interesting knives at the Renaissance fair this past weekend.

Guy makes knife blades out of recycled steel cable and what looked like motorcycle or possibly bicycle chain.

He basically takes a section of the original metal, puts it in the forge and then remakes it into a blade. The chain in particular makes for a very interesting "damascus" like pattern on the blade.

Pretty cool use of old metal, they sharpen well and apparently work pretty well as knives too. He uses a variety of materials for the handle/hilts.

JohnE

Yes. I can tell you it ain't anything like the way it used to be.

It seems the Buck 120 is still available too.

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0006503515086a.shtml

It is too long at 7.5" for me to find handy, but so it goes. I had one when I was younger, about 30 years ago.

The real reason to post on this thread again was to mention Grohman Knives of Pictou Nova Scotia. The #3 boat knife is my favorite hunting knife.

http://www.grohmannknives.com/pages/outdoor.html

All canadians should buy a Grohman.

Buying anything else first would be unamerican.

I've always been curious about the Grohman. Some day I hope to find a store nearby that carries them so I can handle them.

Grohman's look funny but handle well.

I have the boat and bird and trout, and want an Original #1 someday in flat carbon.

They are classics and would make a nice choice.

Great knives, lousy sheaths.
But that can be rectified buying a kydex from Canada too.

I have a few of Grohmann models (5 I think) and last fall had 3-#3 Boat knives (with the Canadian Army overlapping sheath) custom engraved, I gave them to my 2 hunting partners and my teenage son. The overlapping sheath can be seen here as the 3rd sheath option.

I remember "Hacksaw" on ETS had a Grohmann #3 factory custom made with a Scandi grind blade. After delivery he was not happy with it and returned it to the factory, I wonder why; it seemed like a good option to me?

Mike

It's become such a popular option, the factory will take back standard knives and regrind to the flat scandi.

Not far from the factory in Pictou is a blue whale research station you can sign up with for working vacations .

I used to buy Earl grey from a guy in NS who added these strange white flower blossoms that gave it a vanilla flavour. He disappeared and I can only surmise the floweres were endangered or narcotic.

I've always wanted to watch those blue whales while sipping tea and slicing some hard summer sausage with a Russell.

I had a bird and trout years ago, it is a suprisingly ergonomic and SAFE handle.

I need another one.

I've had the Russell #3, with overlap sheath, for over 15 years. My girlfriend at the time bought it for me as a gift, so I bought her a ring. She still has the ring, and I still have the knife, so I guess that worked out.

Thanks all for your suggestions, it certainly is keeping me busy on the net with research, I do like the look of the Buck Mayo kaala as a back up.
Cheers
Moab

You really have hundreds of good options. I would look at Ragweed Forge for many Scandi choices at excellent prices. Ragnar's service is top end.

The Grohman choices are also really good.

I liked the Grohman shape so much I had Rick Frigault make me his custom version…a Basadie along with a Chinto companion knife.



I liked the Grohman shape so much I had Rick Frigault make me his custom version…a Basadie along with a Chinto companion knife.



There are literally hundreds of great custom makers out there who can do just about anything you desire....but I would likely give Ragnar a look.

The birchbark handled Iisakki Järvenpää 1244 is one of my favorties from him.



Note...not the standard sheath.

Chris: I still have and use my ARKANSAS and I still have a FLAT CAN of 3in1 Oil right next to the round Plastic bottle ( it kinda still smells the same)

Yup. It's top notch. And works quite well just tucked into a cargo pocket on your pants/shorts.

Moab you should not get any problems with carrying a knife or two in your hold luggage but i am sure you are quite aware of that.

Look at the Randall RAT knives.

I have their 3" fixed blade in 1095 and really like it. Not too big...not too small.

I've got the same Iisakki Järvenpää from Ragweed, and it's one of my favorite knives as well!

Some good "neck" knives are the A.G. Russell Woodswalker, Hunter Scalpel, and Bird&Trout models. They come with kydex sheaths and the Woodswalker is also available with a really nifty leather pocket sheath. They have other, larger models available with kydex sheaths as well. They also have the Canadian knives, by Russell rather than Grohman, which are really well made and well shaped blades. Check out www.agrussell.com.
Knives in checked luggage is usually not a problem with airport security, just don't try to board with one in your carry-on bag or in your pocket.
Hope that helps.

Those are, in fact, by Grohmann. The confusion arises because A.G. Russell calls them D.H. Russell knives, which is the proper name of the Grohmann knives ... the design is by D.H. Russell of Toronto, who went into partnership with Grohmann to produce the knives.

Everyone I know always just called them Russell knives.

I keep looking at this thread's title feeling something is amiss.

I just realised it is the very concept of 'backup.'

I hear this term in firearms, usually a smaller caliber in a

compact package: What the late Colonel Cooper called " sending a

destroyer to 'back up' a battleship." It seems reasonable that

you should first be reasonably sure you won't lose or destroy

your primary blade. If you can't do that, then buy TWO to lose

or destroy. About the only use I see afield for backup blades

are the packers of tactical swords. You know; spreading peanut

butter, cutting paracord, making fuz sticks, striking firesteels.

Good point. And that's exactly what I carry a back up blade for. I have a primary knife that I use for almost everything, and a smaller back up that I use for spreading butter, making fuzzsticks, pulling stickers, etc. I'm not man enough to use a 6-or 7-in. blade to pull stickers from my hand. I call it a backup blade for lacke of a better term. I suppose I could just call it a little knife, but that lacks flair.

Kris - something lost in translation maybe? I tend to carry (when canoeing) a bushcraft scandi grind blade in my dry bag (principle knife) and I was considering whether to replace that with a thicker more "survival" style blade. I also want a "back-up" blade that i can easily carry on my body in case of total gear loss in a capsize (a small chance I know - but thats half the fun of acquiring kit....). I have settled on a RAT Izula which turns up thursday (looking forwards to puttting a paracord wrap on it).

Incidently when I'm not in a canoe I don't tend to carry anything more than my bushcraft blade ( a Ben Orford custom Woodlander)on my belt and a small spyderco in my pocket.

Thanks for all your posts and I'm looking forwards to my trip down the Green River this Autumn (sorry "fall")
Moab

It took tremendous damage doing woodcraft tasks. Evidently the full flat grind wasn't strong enough to support the edge with the steel and heat treat.

Have you looked at neckers, such as the Becker BK11 and Fehrman Thru Hiker? Nice little knives!