Questions From a Non-Fisherman

Posted by: Meadowlark

Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/15/09 10:18 PM

Hello all --

In many kit lists, people seem to dutifully put down fishing hooks and gear as a matter of course. Because if this, I'm tempted to purchase some hooks/lures to add to my BOB "just in case", but then wonder if it would be just added weight because A) I'm mostly in suburbia, miles from any bodies of water, and B) I've not much fishing experience and don't have a current license.

I always like to think I'd be able to catch some minnows via the "T-shirt on a forked branch" technique, or with the
"cut in half/reversed soda bottle" method, etc, but perhaps I'm selling myself short by not adding a couple of hooks/lures and acquiring some updated skills.

Any thoughts from the experienced fisher-folk out there?






Posted by: Meadowlark

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 12:56 AM


Excellent and informative blog, IzzyJG99. I'll be sure to go over it a little more when I have time.

So here are some dumb newbie questions related to the above kit:

1) What is the razor knife for? (in case you don't have an EDC knife?)

2) What are the safety pins for?

3) Does one just affix the braided line to a green tree branch, one's hand, or....?


Thanks again,

M


Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 01:02 AM


i would have some sort of fishing gear on the idea that something is better that nothing in a survival sitution..
and you not going to be doing any hard core fishing,working the break line and all that,you just want to get a bait of some sort where a fish might find it and not waste time and energy searching for "hot spots"..a big hook tied to a pole or a sharp stick to spear a carp would be better than trying real fishing--anyway thats my take on the subject..
Posted by: tomfaranda

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 02:08 AM

Does anyone know of any situations where having a fishing kit was the difference between life and death? Or even made life more comfortable while waiting for rescue?

Stories of people on life rafts/in lifeboats don't count!
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 02:56 AM

Considering the weight and space required to include a small fishing kit, I say "why not".

Either you get lucky and catch something to eat, or you at least have something to do.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 03:37 AM

I agree with Desperado.

Fishing line is a very "multi-use" item, handy to have even if you do not use it for fishing (e.g. cordage/thread).

Hooks are very small and light, use them (and cotton tinder) to fill-in the voids in your kit.

A fishing kit can also be used to catch birds and maybe even small mammals, although it is not humane and usually very illegal.

Mike
Posted by: Susan

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 04:35 AM

I am also a non-fisherperson.

What are the actual uses of the treble hooks and the single hooks? Does it depend on the kind or the size of the fish that are in the vicinity, or what?

Sue
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 05:06 AM


Sue..treble hooks are sold as a "sure fire" fish getter for big fish--i cut one of them off my Pike lures as too much of a hassle in sport fishing but for survival you want to snag anything you can get.for most inland small hooks are very effective.--fish are not a very good survival food as they are low in fat.only the Whitefish has enought to get along on. a good story on that is "lure of the Labadore wild".they got hundreds of trout and still starved--1904--
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 12:55 PM

Me, I think including a fishing kit is a no-brainer -- it takes up hardly any weight or space and it's an effective food getter. Sure, you're not going to starve to death, but food will make you feel better about not starving to death.

Modern braided lines are very strong for their diameter and have good abrasion resistance. They're the obvious choice for a survival kit, as you can use them for many other things. Add some small hooks (less than 1/2 inch shank) and a bunch of split shot, and you're about set. I also add a few nymphs (wet flies imitating insect larvae), in case I can't find bait.

The most important skill the non-fisherman needs to learn is knots. You can't use just any old knot -- it'll slip, and then your fish is gone, along with a valuable hook. Google up instructions for tying a palomar knot. This is one of the easiest fishing knots going, and it's also one of the strongest.
Posted by: KenK

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 01:10 PM

Great post Andrew! That's right along my line of thinking.

I'm not quite sure why people put swivels and safety pins in a fishing kit when they could just load it up with hooks.

My own random thoughts:

The basic NEEDS are:
line
hooks
split shot weights (to pull live bait down)
small bobbers might help
skill to tie hook to line

You'll need multiple hooks, weights, and bobbers since odds are that you'll get line caught up on weeds/brush and loose them.

All the other stuff is extra, though I'd buy the bring along a few nymphs suggestion.

Keep in mind that you're most likely to catch small panfish or similar - not largemouth bass. They are just as tasty and filling as big fish.

The other bit of information that is usefull is that fish feed best at sunrise & sunset, AND just like most other critters, fish tend to like edges and cover - darting out from the cover to grab food. Catfish, bullhead, & carp feed off the bottom, so instead of using a bobber you can try allowing the bait to float up from the weight that is resting on the bottom. Be careful of the catfish pectoral fins - they are sharp and leave nasty puncture wounds. You can often carefully use them to help hold the fish.

If you've never cleaned a fish before, its pretty simple:

1. Scrape off the scales - kind of like you'd shave - going against the grain of the scales.

Catfish & bullheads are usually skined - this is pretty tough without pliers

2. Cut off the head just behind the gills.

3. Cut down the belly to the back of the body cavity.

4. I always snip off the anus, as I prefer not to be eating that.

5. Rinse it all off in water and cook until meat is flakey. Be REAL careful not to swallow bones!!!!!
Posted by: billvann

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 03:28 PM

I'm not an avid fisherman so that's why I added fishing knots to my PSK Cheat Sheet . I figured it would by one of the bits of information I would really need if I was ever in a long term survival situation.

I also agree with most others that fishing gear add very little weight and space to your ket. And most folks can figure out how to fish, unlike setting snares for game which requires tracking skills and would be a bit harder. And the the items do double duty for other tasks. Hopefully, I'll never put myself in a situation where I'll be lost long enough to need food (proper trip plan, STOP, etc.) But if circumstances beyond my control ever do, I'll be prepared.

At worse, I'll at least have something to do while I wait for the SAR folks to show up! :-)
Posted by: airballrad

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 03:43 PM

I have only gotten into fishing in the last couple years (barring childhood trips where I just held the rod until there was something for my grandfather to reel in). As such, I do not have as much experience, but perhaps I have some of the newbie stuff still fresher in my head. A couple things from my perspective:

-You don't HAVE to find grubs/worms/whatever for bait. Often a broken rubber band or a piece of shiny metal can attract a fish. There is no exact science to it, but fish will swallow most things that get their attention in the right way.

-A pole just gives you leverage to maximize the strength of your line. If you don't need this, you just need something to hold the line so it won't cut your fingers when the fish is fighting you. I have seen neat kits using a Nalgene bottle for storage and leverage. You can even set that up to unreel the line when you cast it.

-In small creeks, Native Americans would often dam up a portion of the flow and make a narrow channel. When the fish were restricted to this smaller channel they were easier to spot and spear. A stick split twice, with twine and a pebble to separate the sharpened tines, gives you 4 chances to spear the fish instead of one. A net in this situation would work very well too, of course.

Echoing the other replies, the gear is lightweight, takes up little space, and is good for many chores. Add a needle and you can repair gear with the line, for instance.

Finally, sometimes sitting still and keeping calm is the best way to get yourself rescued. Fishing is good for this.
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 04:10 PM

One other point: one problem with small hooks is that they don't hook well. Because of the small gap, they may fail to bite properly, and either not hook the fish or tear loose easily. To help prevent this, use pliers to offset the point or open the hook gap slightly. With very small hooks, offsetting the point is better imo than opening the gap.

I do this with every hook I use. There's no doubt you get fewer missed strikes, and I'd apply the same thinking to fishing with a trotline.

And while we're on the topic, use sharp hooks -- if they aren't sharp, you will miss fish. Chemically sharpened hooks (Gamakatsu, Tiemco, Daiichi, etc.) are more expensive but they're razor sharp out of the box, while good old Mustads often need sharpening. But chemically sharpened hooks are more brittle and may break when you take the pliers to them to open the gap.
Posted by: billym

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 04:52 PM

Go buy a child fishing book like this

http://www.amazon.com/Fishing-Brook-Angling-Activities-Acitvities/dp/0879059400

This is all you need to know to start and will make your kit useful even if you are not Hemingway.
Then go to a pond and land a few Sunfish,Bream,perch etc.
Easy as pie.
Posted by: Meadowlark

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 06:22 PM

Thanks so much for your input, everyone -- you're the best!

So here's what I'm considering putting in my mini fishing kit so far:

* 50' line, braided, wound onto a hand reel made from either a small, flat kite reel or a modified plastic bottle.
* A variety of sharp hooks, perhaps including a few trebles
* A couple of small bobbers
* split shot sinkers
* swivels
* some soft plastic lures, preferably bright yellow

...plus a bunch of tips and local information that I intend to memorize.


Anything vital I'm leaving out?


Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 06:23 PM

As always, small hooks can catch big fish, but not vice-versa...

I also carry some hardware like eye screws / hooks to make improvised fishing poles / line attachments...
Posted by: drahthaar

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 07:38 PM

All you need for a fishing survival kit is 2 small hooks and a two larger hooks, 20 yards of line and a couple of lead sinkers.

People put a lot of frivolous stuff in their kits like swivels and bobbers and so forth. The only time you will ever needs swivels is a) if you're fishing with a spinner or spoon that tends to twist your line during retrieves or b) to quickly switch lures when you are fishing and you're not going to be doing that when survival fishing.

And, by "swivels" I mean swivels with quick release snaps attached. Generic swivels are even more useless.
Posted by: JohnE

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 07:47 PM

Something that I think helps is to not think like a fisherperson. They're usually more interested in the "idea" or the sport of catching a fish, while those in a survival situation need to eat or at a minimum, need the distraction.

Think in terms of maximising your catch ratio, thus the use of treble hooks and bait vs lures and barbless hooks that the intrepid trout chaser might use.

Multiple lines that can be set up and left alone are a great idea, the treble hooks, well baited, work better here too as they are more likely to snag the fish than would a single hook.

The biggest thing is to remember that the sport fisherperson is happy whether they catch something or not, the survival fisherperson will go hungry if they're unsuccessful.

Izzy's got a ton of great information on his site, including some very good ideas for lure choices for the novice sport fisherpersons out there. I count myself as a returning fisherperson, I couldn't get enough of it when I was younger, now that my son is in his teens, he's caught the same bug I did, no pun intended, and we try to go as often as possible.

JohnE
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 08:29 PM

Generic swivels aren't useless.

Someone who lacks a good knowledge of fishing knots will be better off joining two sections of line using a swivel than by trying to knot the sections together. Not only will two sections joined by a swivel and palomar knots test much stronger than two sections tied by just about any other knot, but the risk of one line cutting through the other is eliminated. This is particularly important if you are joining a braided line to some other kind of line.

Also, I'd say two hooks and a couple of shot is not nearly enough. You will lose hooks. They weigh next to nothing and take up little space. Why not carry more?

Re soft plastics, +1 on Izzy. They are great fish getters but don't belong in a survival kit. A good alternative (although I'd favour using set lines with bait for survival fishing) is a couple of small marabou jigs -- they move well in the water regardless of the speed you retrieve them, and would be easy to fish on a handline.
Posted by: Meadowlark

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 09:23 PM


Izzy wrote:

"I got minnow shaped bleached spots on my expresso bookshelves."



LOL! So you're saying that soft plastics don't store well in a kit's case or...?

I'm definitely gonna look into jigs now. Thanks again.

Posted by: ironraven

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/16/09 09:35 PM

If you stock a spool (bobbin) of light fishline (10 pound mono, 20 pound spectra braid, kevlar thread, etc) in your kit generally, then a kit can be as small as a pistol cartridge. I sold a few of these a few years back:

And have them scattered in my kits where I don't have anything bigger. Heck, a spool of braided, waxed fishline would work for line in a pinch.

As for the uses, get creative. YOu can catch fish, everyone knows that. Most of us know about hooking birds and small mammals. How about as anchors? Several years ago, I hung white board on my door, but rather than drilling holes in the door, I ran some cord over the top of the door, back down the other side, and some small fish hooks into the underside of the door to anchor it. *shrugs* looked odd, but it worked pretty well.

Posted by: Yuccahead

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 03:05 AM

These posts have some outstanding info. I prepare myself for the desert so finding water is reward enough in itself but I'm considering adding a fishing kit after reading this series of posts.

I used to fly fish quite a bit and one thing I would add is that if you find yourself fishing in a survival situation on a smaller stream or in slower water on a river, stealth is critical. Fish have excellent hearing. To that end, the advantage of a simple rod or stick just to get the bait or lure over some part of the stream even just 6 feet away from where you are stepping can't be over-rated.

Also, don't think of just worms or grubs as possible bait. Any twitching critter you can catch from flies, grasshoppers to spiders and lizards look great to a fish from below.

I also prefer barbless hooks. Back in the day, there were some studies done that found they actually penetrated better than barbed hooks. I don't know if that has become accepted wisdom but I really like them because I always seem to hook myself or my clothes and barbless hooks make that much less of a problem.

That reminds me.... The one piece of fishing equipment I haven't seen mentioned (and would make a kit fairly large but not much heavier) that I like to have are hemostats for hook removal. A pair of pliers on a multitool would work but with all that water and fish slime, I'd probably drop them in the water.
Posted by: Johno

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 10:55 AM

Swivels are a must for me, especially important for leaving unattended lines set up. Fish takes bait, fish twists like feck to get the hook out, line kinks and makes a weak spot and the fish breaks the line and gets away.

My personal preference only.
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: drahthaar
All you need for a fishing survival kit is 2 small hooks and a two larger hooks, 20 yards of line and a couple of lead sinkers.

People put a lot of frivolous stuff in their kits like swivels and bobbers and so forth. The only time you will ever needs swivels is a) if you're fishing with a spinner or spoon that tends to twist your line during retrieves or b) to quickly switch lures when you are fishing and you're not going to be doing that when survival fishing.

And, by "swivels" I mean swivels with quick release snaps attached. Generic swivels are even more useless.


Sorry, but must respectfully disagree. Only 4 hooks, some line, and some sinkers? Mind you, that is a "bare bones" kit... Hooks are small and the weight is so minimal, so carry a decent amount... The more hooks, the more you can set out at once, increasing the likelyhood of catching a fish. Ditto on the split shot.

Swivels are very useful, as someone else posted, as a way to keep a fish from stressing a line, esp. if left unattended.

How do you feel about large gaff hooks?
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Yuccahead
I also prefer barbless hooks. Back in the day, there were some studies done that found they actually penetrated better than barbed hooks....


There was some speculation a few years back that barbless hooks would actually penetrate better, but I don't think it was backed by any solid evidence. There are really too many variables when it comes to a real live fish on a real live hook. Most people don't fish with optimally sharp hooks, anyway -- very few people ever sharpen a hook.

What's certain is that barbless won't hold as well, except on very small hooks (i.e. #18 or smaller) where the barb is more or less irrelevant. Barbless hooks will hold a fish if you keep constant pressure, but not if you relax that pressure. That makes them unsuitable for any kind of set line, which in a survival situation is generally your best method of fishing.

I do use them for all my normal fishing, though, as they're easier to remove from my own anatomy....
Posted by: Johno

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 01:56 PM

Depends on what you mean by large, I've got a 2/0 O-Shaughnessy in my fishing kit on top of the other bits and pieces. Some folks may call that excessive. Mind you my hook collection goes up to 8/0.
Posted by: DannyL

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 08:07 PM

We have several fishing kits we bought from Best Glide, they're pretty good except they come with mono line, not braided. that's my only complaint.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 10:19 PM

I like swivels becuase a hook always fits on them, but not always on "whatever line". The loop on the swivel is much more forgiving.
Posted by: DannyL

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 10:42 PM

oh, btw, and don't laugh, but a spool of dental floss comes in handy for line.
Posted by: DannyL

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 11:10 PM

izzy, just to let you know, I'm ordering 6 of those kits you showed above.
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/17/09 11:40 PM

I'm told dental floss is the line of choice for dapping, which is an antedeluvian fly fishing technique that approximately four people still use.

You have a fixed length of line and a dry fly, and you let the wind blow the line around and pick the fly up off the water, etc. Apparently floss is one of the few things light enough to work.

Never tried it, myself.
Posted by: Meadowlark

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/18/09 05:33 PM



More questions to the experienced anglers: On average, how many hooks/sinkers do you end up losing per day? I'm figuring that it depends on a lot of factors, but I'm now thinking I need to pack at least 12 hooks for, say, a two week scenario.

Also, is a person more likely to get snagged when using a hand reel versus a pole?


Thanks again...
Posted by: Yuccahead

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/19/09 02:51 AM

When I would fly fish -- which is far from survival fishing -- I would lose many. It really depends on your environment and if you are fishing with bait that needs to appear to move (like a minnow, spoon or Rapala lure. You will probably lose more in the act of casting with a rod but in many situations a rod (with ferrules) can help you get un-snagged.

If you are just dipping the bait on a stick or a hand reel or setting out bait to sit while you go do something else, you probably won't lose that many hooks (if your knots are good). However, if you have many hooks, you can set many hooks even on one line and increase your odds. In short, more hooks is better.

I always found sinkers didn't like being casted either but again, this probably won't be a factor in a survival situation. Sinkers and floats can always be improvised from rocks and sticks. Hooks are harder.

Finally, my experience is mostly with western trout rivers and streams. Those that fish in lakes (for bass) or in salt water may have a different take on this.
Posted by: SwampDonkey

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/19/09 03:29 AM

Yuccahead described it well.

Casting on a trout river I get lots of snags/break-offs, but fishing from a boat I may not loose a hook all day.

It really depends on your type of fishing and what the waterbody is like (clean lake vs brushy river).

Mike
Posted by: Hornfrog

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/20/09 01:10 AM

Great information from so many! I live in Texas, which is warmer than a lot of other places so the baits we use are good for that climate and fish we have here. My small survival fishing kit I made up is a small compartmentalized plastic box with a hinged lid; 4"X6"X1 1/2". That may seem too large for many and it is much larger than any PSK, of course, but I carry this in my Maxpedition Jumbo shoulder bag so I have plenty of room for this kit and it has everything I need to fish with except a rod and reel! I use clear acrylic bobbins from a sewing store with braided Spider Wire and these are great for braided lines. Also, I took a hobbyists tropical fish net and removed the net part and it takes up only a space about the size of a marble when really scrunched up tightly; to be re-installed on a field expedient handle to scoop up minnows in the shallows for bait or if one is really hard up - for food. One more thing I have had great success with is the smallest size Rebel brand lure, a crawfish with two very small treble hooks on it. I have never used these without catching something! They must be truly irresistable to fish as you draw them through the water. I also have a 12' length of fairly heavy line and 8ea treble hooks along with a few heavier weights to make up a trot line which is very effective to take channel catfish using guts to bait the hooks from other fish already caught. In my area, water sources necessarily mean food if you know what you are doing and this food is easier to get at than trapping mammals and birds any day.
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 03/23/09 03:44 PM

Definitely depends on where you are fishing.

There is a dam where I would fish at a lot... Rocky bottom where a hook can catch quite often. If I fished via bobber there, I wouldn't lose many hooks at all. Fishing from the bottom, would easily lose a few.

All depends on the strength of your line as well. If you are stringing a line across a stream, you should be fine with a few hooks...

Hooks are sinkers are small, pack a bunch... Don't worry about bobbers tho, sticks work fine for that.
Posted by: PSM

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" - 03/23/09 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: l33tYoDuh


You can see it on Google Earth at 52* 06' 32.92" N 4* 42' 27.32" W
Posted by: drahthaar

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" - 03/25/09 11:42 PM

Well I guess I am not surprised there is some disagreement with my blanket statements.

Here's why swivels are useless. Most of your fishing is going to involve fashioning a makeshift pole or a drop line from the bank. If you have 20 yards of braid or mono, you will probably be able to make 3-4 such set ups w/ 5-7 yards of line. One end ties to pole or bank and other hook. No need to join lines. If you do need to join lines you should learn how to tie a proper know instead of relying on only a terminal knot and a swivel.

The stuff about twisting lines is an interesting theory, but when I regularly used to set trot lines for catfish, I got more straightened hooks than broken lines. And that's back when we used dacron. A good spectra line ain't going to break with 99% of the freshwater fish you will ever encounter in North America/Canada.

And, heck if folks want to take 10 or 100 fish hooks instead of the 4 I have, they're welcome to do so.

And, while I don't want to go into full snark mode here, I will hate to think about what some poor schlub who can't learn how to tie two knots is going to do if they actually catch a fish. Their brain is obviously too crammed full of info to know how to fillet or bone or prepare a fish. I guess they'll just go into survivalman mode like one of those guys on TV and start chewing away at the fish's head or something.

Oh, finally one serious comment - it's generally a bad idea to use swivels to connect your bait hook to the line because the flash from the swivel can scare away wary fish. You want to disguise the hook in the bait as much as possible. I guess you could buy matte black swivels if you have your heart set on them.

And, finally, I guess I should note that most of the time I am out on the river I usually have 2-300 flies/hooks/lures with me so I should probably keep my mouth shut about being economical about these things.
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" - 03/26/09 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: drahthaar
And, while I don't want to go into full snark mode here, I will hate to think about what some poor schlub who can't learn how to tie two knots is going to do if they actually catch a fish.


They're going to eat it.

If you need help with any more challenging questions, drop me a line.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" - 03/26/09 10:36 PM

Drathar, I've watched people who've never cleaned a fish do a not to horrible job their first time (other than forgetting to scale it) with no instruction or guidence. I was one of them- I just skinned the thing.

As for shine, the few times of the year I do fish, I find that anything shiny is effective even when (sorta) live bait isn't. I've caught trout using a "survival" rig made of my walking stick, some spectra braid, a hook, and aluminum foil.

Information is appreciated, but the noise of an attitude can overwhelm what ever useful signal you have. Your attitude in your last post could be easily interpreted as "if you aren't as cool as me, don't even bother".
Posted by: Meadowlark

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" - 03/27/09 01:12 AM

UPDATE: Still putting my fishing kit together. Thanks again for the additional info, everyone.


Regarding schlubs: as a kid, I once found a good-sized steelhead trout that had somehow washed up onto a stream bank after a storm.

Seeing that it had recently expired and not wanting it to go to waste, I took it home and cooked it over a small grill in the backyard, fins and all, poking at it occasionally for doneness. I then let it cool and inexpertly sliced at the blackened skin with a knife. All in all, it was a satisfying, if somewhat overly messy, meal.

So I suppose that if I was able to figure it out what to do with a fish as a 12 year-old, most others would be able to figure it out, too. smile




Posted by: Blast

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" - 03/27/09 12:12 PM

Quote:
the irony is I don't eat fish and don't like fish. Lol.


shocked

-Blast
Posted by: drahthaar

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/30/09 10:48 PM

Hmm - so folks don't have any problem figuring out how to fillet and cook a fish but learning to tie a line to line knot is just too much for them to remember so they best carry along some swivels? Okey dokey.

And yes, flash sometimes does attract fish - that's the principle behind spinners, spoons, and a variety of other lures. Still not a good idea when baitfishing, though. If someone is concerned that they are going to miss catching a fish because bait doesn't work, instead of swivels it would probably be best to carry a few inches of x-mas tinsel to tie to the hook. That way the fish will hit at the hook, instead of the swivel.

Oh and what are folks going to do if they have to tie a shoelace to paracord or something? Should they carry along some titanium o-rings so they can tie two terminal knots to it instead of trying to remember how to tie a line to line knot? Sorry for the the snarks, folks, but all of this smacks of after the fact justifications of why people carry around a bunch of swivels in a survival fishing kit.

I mean the two reasons people give for having swivels is that they will prevent line twist/breaking and allow hooking lines together just don't make sense. Like I said, when I used to run trotlines I lost far more fish to bent hooks than I did to broken lines. So this isn't a theoretical concept to me. I mean if people have experience losing lots of fish to twisted line when running unattended lines, I'd like to hear it. Just doesn't happen in my experience. (And, here I am talking about freshwater fish.)

And a note to ironraven - sorry if I caused you offense. I just try to be a plain-spoken as possible and I assume (perhaps mistakenly) that people would prefer blunt honesty.

Good fishing folks.
Posted by: Andrew_S

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/31/09 12:08 AM

Originally Posted By: drahthaar
Sorry for the the snarks, folks, but all of this smacks of after the fact justifications of why people carry around a bunch of swivels in a survival fishing kit.


Actually, it's my suggestion that you're snarking at, and I don't carry any swivels at all. Ever.

The plain fact is, most people are lousy at fishing knots, particularly if they don't fish often. That's experience speaking: I've worked as a fishing guide, and seen it again and again.

So I guess folks can choose: they can either decide to learn a bunch of knots, and make sure they don't forget them, even if they only fish a few days a year and never join one line to another ... or they can carry some swivels. Just in case they get lost in the woods some day, you know.

Tough choice.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/31/09 03:38 AM

Okay, here's the deal with knot tying vs. snap swivels. Growing up we never used swivels for anything. We tied off our leaders to our line and the hooks or lures we used and that was that. Back then, my fingers were more nimble, and my teeth were a lot sharper. Monofilament line was all we used and it was plenty soft enough to bite through. Nowadays my fingers don't work so well, especially when they are wet and cold, and my teeth don't cut the new braided line very well. I terminate my line with a snap swivel because my fingers will at least work well enough to pinch the wire open and closed. I can then re-gear in about 30 seconds, and I know the knot I tied in the end of the snap swivel is good to go. I don't recall ever getting a strike on a snap swivel, not when there was a lure or bait on the end of the line for them to get instead.

I have never lost a fish to a straightened hook, but I've lost plenty to line breaks. Sometimes you just can't avoid the snags, or get the drag turned down quick enough. Steelhead are good at breaking line.
Posted by: Stu

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/31/09 11:06 AM

Each to their own. I have several snap swivels in my kit and I have used the for other things than fishing!

I make sure I "use" my emergency fishing kit several times a year to keep in practice. I've made a number of changes in my kit based on what I've experienced in the practice sessions.
I've also used many of the item in my kit to build traps and snares for small animals and birds. A somewhat wise old ex "Coastie" puddle pirate once reminded me Perfect Practice Prevents P*ss Poor Performance.
How does one know their gear is in good shape and will work if you don't practice.

BTW, SUE
The pointy end of the hooks go in the fish, not in you! grin
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/31/09 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: benjammin
Okay, here's the deal with knot tying vs. snap swivels. Growing up we never used swivels for anything. We tied off our leaders to our line and the hooks or lures we used and that was that. Back then, my fingers were more nimble, and my teeth were a lot sharper. Monofilament line was all we used and it was plenty soft enough to bite through. Nowadays my fingers don't work so well, especially when they are wet and cold, and my teeth don't cut the new braided line very well. I terminate my line with a snap swivel because my fingers will at least work well enough to pinch the wire open and closed. I can then re-gear in about 30 seconds, and I know the knot I tied in the end of the snap swivel is good to go. I don't recall ever getting a strike on a snap swivel, not when there was a lure or bait on the end of the line for them to get instead.

I have never lost a fish to a straightened hook, but I've lost plenty to line breaks. Sometimes you just can't avoid the snags, or get the drag turned down quick enough. Steelhead are good at breaking line.


Amen to all of that... I've been fishing for as long as I can remember with my dad. I always used snap swivels on my lines (spinning and bait setups). I've never had a problem catching fish on them. In survival mode, I carry swivels, hooks, sinkers, some spinners, and a few leaders. You just never know what conditions you will face.

If you don't want to carry them, don't. If you do, swell... It is all choice. It is easy for me to go from a bait setup to a spin setup with a swivel on the line. Would I desire that in a survival situation. Possibly. Weight of a few swivels, so minimal as to make no difference if I add them.
Posted by: drahthaar

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/31/09 09:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew_S

So I guess folks can choose: they can either decide to learn a bunch of knots, and make sure they don't forget them, even if they only fish a few days a year and never join one line to another ... or they can carry some swivels. Just in case they get lost in the woods some day, you know.

Tough choice.


Oh, I understand, learning how to tie a line to line knot is just too much to expect from folks. Much easier to carry along some equipment to plug the knowledge hole. That is the approach that many people follow in their survival "preparations."

To each his (or her) own.
Posted by: drahthaar

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 03/31/09 09:38 PM

"I don't recall ever getting a strike on a snap swivel, not when there was a lure or bait on the end of the line for them to get instead."

That is interesting.

When fishing for trout in clear water I stopped using dropper rigs with swivels because I could see the fish hitting on the swivel a foot or two away from the lure. For that same reason, I stopped using (somewhat shiny) pinch-on lead weights and went to fly-fishing "mud" when I need to get a little more weight on my lure.

If a shiny swivel is no problem, I kind of wonder why fly fisherman use 8, 10, or 12 foot tippets?

Everybody has different experiences, I guess.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/01/09 01:01 PM

Yep,

I've seen them eyeball that swivel as it goes by their nose a time or two, but never a hit.

Now there is a lake up in the Olympics, called Dee Lake, that they stock with Atlantic Salmon that are dumber than a box of rocks. You could throw a bass lure out in the water and they'd hit on it. The problem was it was a 12 mile hike from the trailhead to the lake, all uphill, and hodding those salmon back down wasn't exactly fun. We would keep a couple for camp, but you had to be careful, cuz the Olympics were full of blackies back then, and more than once we would find our salmon dug out of the snowbank in the morning.
Posted by: EdD270

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/03/09 04:13 AM

Lots of good ideas and perspectives in this. I appreciate it. I don't call myself a fisherman, but I have fished in MT, CO, MO, NM and AZ and have caught a few. I have spent many more hours fishing than catching fish. I've pondered on this, and realized that my chances of catching a fish are not going to magically improve merely because I'm in a survival situation, the fish don't care.
My own experience at fishing with hook and line has led me to learn how to build and use fish traps for true survival situations. Yes, they are illegal in most states, but in a true survival situation, so what? I practice by building traps and then after catching a few fish to be sure they work, I tear them down and release the fish. IMHO making fish weirs and traps are a skill, like fishing knots, that anyone who spends time in the outdoors should learn.
Having said that, I do carry fishing gear, similar to kits already so well described,including swivels, in my PSK. Fishing gear is so useful for so many things and weighs so little, it's crazy not to carry it. It could even be used to catch fish, maybe someday.
As for cleaning fish, I've never done anything but cut open the belly and remove the entrails, then cook them. I really like them with a strip of bacon and a wedge of lemon on the inside, wrapped in aluminum foil and put on the coals. Mmmmm.
Just my thoughts.
Posted by: scafool

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/03/09 08:15 AM

I have a real cheap but very large hammock.
It is made out of nylon twine fish net, about 1/2 inch square mesh. I think the total size is about 30 feet 8 feet. It is used in layers in the hammock for increased support. There os plenty of cord for tying it up.
It is (I admit) an odd way to make a hammock. However it rolls up compact and it is not very heavy. It dries out fast if it does get wet too.

Posted by: benjammin

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/03/09 01:51 PM

Yes, but without a liner to put on top, I am afraid I would look like the dude from the Hellraiser movies, with a body covered in gridlines. smile
Posted by: EdD270

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/06/09 11:38 PM

Originally Posted By: scafool
I have a real cheap but very large hammock.
It is made out of nylon twine fish net, about 1/2 inch square mesh. I think the total size is about 30 feet 8 feet. It is used in layers in the hammock for increased support. There os plenty of cord for tying it up.
It is (I admit) an odd way to make a hammock. However it rolls up compact and it is not very heavy. It dries out fast if it does get wet too.


I love it! I'm always in favor of utilitarian multi-use gear. A good hammock, like yours, with a poncho for a roof, would be great for lots of uses.
Posted by: GradyT34

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/07/09 12:09 AM

Can anyone tell me if there is any particular company that makes the highest quality braided line?
Posted by: drahthaar

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/07/09 06:33 PM

Ditto for the Spiderwire, moss green. I use 20 lb test though.

Posted by: GradyT34

Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester - 04/08/09 02:06 AM

I've looked for the Spiderwire Stealth "High Performance" line at my local Wal*Mart and at a number of web-sites and could not find it. I also looked for it on the Spiderwire website. My guess is the "High Performance" has been discontinued. Any other suggestions would be appreciated for 20 lb. high end line. This is for a survival kit. Not for saltwater environments nor for casting.

The Spiderwire website is:
http://www.spiderwire.com/index.php

This thread has been particularly useful to me, and I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed.
Posted by: PureSurvival

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/23/09 04:07 PM

I am not a fisherman, I don’t like fishing, I have no interest in fishing and I don’t like or eat fish but this thread has been interesting although most of the jargon has gone straight over my head. Understanding fishing is beyond me and I have even tried reading a child’s fishing book. I don’t carry a fishing kit on my normal trips; I have strategies in place to have people looking for me and hopefully rescue way before I need to think of food.

But, I recognise fish as a survival resource and would eat my fill if in a long term survival situation. Because of this fact I do have a comprehensive fishing kit which I take on longer trips to more remote areas or travelling to overseas wilderness areas, as a survival tool or to supplement rations. My fishing kit is multi purpose as it is designed to take birds, mammals and fish from most environments.

This thread has been very interesting; everyone has posted from a fisherman’s point of view and not from a survival standpoint. You have all spoke about the merits of different kit but no one has mentioned the different methods that can be used and tailoring the kit to meet those methods.

I get the impression from reading through the posts some people think survival fishing is a basic form of rod fishing often with out a rod or with an improvised rod. Some of you have suggested swivels are useful if you leave the line in for a long time and for quick change of tackle but again you have not given much information away.

Survival fishing as with trapping is a passive activity, you set the equipment and let it work for you with little or no input from you, allowing you to get on with other tasks or to rest and to save energy. Survival fishing again like trapping is about optimising your chances by quantity of kit placed and quality of its placement.

So how to achieve this. Now I must apologise as this is where I am going to show my ignorance with the names of things.

The components of a survival fishing kit

Line, you want threaded line, I think it’s called braided line? Not that plastic cheese wire stuff, You want a strong breaking strain.

Hooks, you want hooks that come attached to line already, I think they are called traces? I have these in assorted sizes from sizes 6 to 16, 6 being bigger than 16!

I also have an assortment of loose hooks from size 8 to 24, I only added these because I had them and they take up no room.

Triple hooks, I have a number of these triple hooks that are attached two up on a wire like line

Fly type feather hooks, I don’t think these are proper flies; these can be used to float on the surface or underwater as a lures. These too are already attached to line.

Swivels with clips, these are just great for attaching hooks on line to the main line and help stop twisting.

Split shot waits, I am not sure you really need them but I have some just in case.

There are numerous ways of rigging your kit to fish passively long lines are one of the most useful rigs for fishing; it can be used on rivers, ponds, lakes, coastline, sea and ice fishing, even under a life raft. To make a long line take around 30 feet of braded fishing line and from around 2 foot from one end tie in a swivel every 2 feet along the line, aim to have around 10 swivels. Now clip in a selection of hook traces. On the swivel nearest to the surface use a triple hook rig thing and try to get it to float on the surface; these are affective at taking wild fowl and seabirds.

Don’t make long lines at home but take the supplies with you and make them to match your circumstances, as long lining a river will use a different configuration than long lining a lake or coast line.

Have enough kit to make more than one long line, I have around 300ft of line, 100 assorted hook on trace and swivels.

In my kit I also carry three speed hooks, which work great and a couple of yoyo automatic reels which I have not tested and have doubts of there effectiveness but added them because its extra line in a handy reel.

I have a 3x3 meter gill net too; this is also great for tying between trees to catch small birds and 25 wire rabbit snares.

All this lot fits in a bag about the size of a 1 letter nelgine bottle and weighs 432 grams. Ok its not a small survival fishing kit but it will happily sit in your pack on longer trips without adding much weight or bulk. Its lighter and smaller than a fishing rod, reel and tackle and is more effective than a rod and rifle at providing food whilst conserving energy.
Posted by: scafool

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/24/09 12:49 AM

Speed hooks and spring gaffs are illegal here. You don't want to be found near the water with them.
But if it is a real survival situation every poacher's trick is an option and I would be very glad to be arrested by a park ranger in such a case.
Nets are extremely useful and used to be required in aircraft survival kits in northern Canada. I am not sure if they are still required. The rules were recently rewritten and are not clear at all now.
So, for survival fishing, yeah, long lines, set lines, traps, nets, snares, spears, fish poison, you name it, just as long as it is an effective method of gathering food.
You won't be too fussy about the size or type of fish either. This is not catch and release. Even if the fish you catch are frogs whacked with a stick, the hind legs are still good food when roasted.

The idea of a bit of line and a few hooks is to have something small and easy to carry just in case you need them.
They are not a full kit, and are not meant to be one.
If your kit is too big you will not likely have it when you need it, and I can carry 6 hooks and a length of fish line on a card in the credit card pocket of my wallet.
So a small simple kit, not everything you want, but what you should at least have with you.
It is the same reason we carry a small length of wire for light snares, not enough for a real trap line, but enough for a few rabbit or squirrel sets.
Plus the fish line and wire often have other uses.
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/24/09 12:38 PM

Speek hooks and yo-yos are illegal to fish with in PA as well. However, if in a survival situation, everything is fair game... I would think that if you have the equipment well burried in a survival kit you shouldn't be hassled...
Posted by: EdD270

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/25/09 04:46 PM

Another item I think should be included in a survival kit is a small frog gig. These are small, light, and can be attached to any length of pole handle improvised when needed. They can be used for spearing fish, frogs, and other small animals and sometimes birds.
Just my thoughts.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/25/09 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: EdD270
Another item I think should be included in a survival kit is a small frog gig. These are small, light, and can be attached to any length of pole handle improvised when needed. They can be used for spearing fish, frogs, and other small animals and sometimes birds.
Just my thoughts.


Instead of the frog gig, carry some nails. Packs up smaller and has a few more uses. And best of all... its not illegal!
Posted by: Kris

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/26/09 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Over at my site I've discussed fishing in depth often, frequently and constantly. I'm an expert fisherman and I can tell you one thing. If you don't have a fishing kit in your survival kit then you're not going to get food probably. I came to a decision early on in my survival kit building career and that decision was this.

"Wherever you are there are most likely going to be fish. All freshwater fish are edible and most seawater fish are edible. If I don't have anything to catch fish easily with then I probably won't be able to catch any."

I struggled as I built kit after kit and included what I felt to be not very concise or acceptable fishing kits. Doug's Kit includes a great and concise assortment, but his kit only makes up one of my two core kits. So I looked and looked and found this compliments of BePreparedToSurvive.com


here
I wrote a review of the kit.

I also invite you to read the dozen or so posts on my website about fishing in general. Many people have learned a lot from those posts and they're now first rate fishermen now.

EDIT: Yeah, I know what you are thinking. You could just copy the kit. If that's anyones intention the capsule is made by Nalgene/Fisher Scientific and sold on their site!



I forgot to mention this before. If you get two of these kits, and take out the two knives and one tin foil roll, you can combine the rest of the contents into one of the supplied containers.
Posted by: Leigh_Ratcliffe

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/26/09 06:45 PM

[quote I forgot to mention this before. If you get two of these kits, and take out the two knives and one tin foil roll, you can combine the rest of the contents into one of the supplied containers. [/quote]

Rather than do that: Buy two kit's and put them in separate locations in your survival kit. Gives you a lot of redundancy against lost.

Loss of 1 x 2 kit's = 50% loss of your fishing capability.
loss of 1 x 1 kit's = 100% loss.

Where possible dispersion of your kit's contents is always a good idea.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 04/27/09 12:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Originally Posted By: kdunnett
I forgot to mention this before. If you get two of these kits, and take out the two knives and one tin foil roll, you can combine the rest of the contents into one of the supplied containers.


Rather than do that: Buy two kit's and put them in separate locations in your survival kit. Gives you a lot of redundancy against lost.

Loss of 1 x 2 kit's = 50% loss of your fishing capability.
loss of 1 x 1 kit's = 100% loss.

Where possible dispersion of your kit's contents is always a good idea.


very true, but this was for a single psk. Why take up double the space for the same amount of kit?
Posted by: raven

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 05/21/09 02:26 PM

I live in florida and there water every where here. my kit is1 fishing line 20-30 test. hooks single and treblee red and small and medum two dry flys a small spinner a few reusable bb wigths and a cork float[ cork is harder to brack than plastic] and yes I'm a bad speller
Posted by: duckear

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 06/08/09 04:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Meadowlark


More questions to the experienced anglers: On average, how many hooks/sinkers do you end up losing per day? I'm figuring that it depends on a lot of factors, but I'm now thinking I need to pack at least 12 hooks for, say, a two week scenario.

Also, is a person more likely to get snagged when using a hand reel versus a pole?


Thanks again...



Depends on where you fish.

I caught and released 20+ bass out of my pond a few days ago with one small Rapala lure.
I have been using the same small Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear fly for the last few months and caught hundreds of bream in the same pond.

I am very careful to tie good knots and inspect my line after every fish I catch. If it is nicked, I retie with 'fresh' leader material.

You lose 99% of your gear from:
hanging up in cover
poor knots


Posted by: GradyT34

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 01:22 AM

True newbie questions (all I've ever fished with is a pole and minnows or worms - catch mostly catfish):

In general, if you used an artifical lure when pole fishing, how many fish would you catch as opposed to using live bait? Is the closest answer: 1) you never catch any fish with any artificial lure using only a pole, or 2) with an artificial lure, you'd only catch about half the fish you'd catch with live bait?

If one were limited solely to pole fishing, is there any artificial lure made that works at all? If so, who makes it and what is it called? In other words, in a fairly small survival kit that limits you to pole fishing, is there any artificial lure at all that could be used to catch fish?

Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 03:53 AM

Well, they call it fishing, not catching.

The variables of season and species make a short answer of dubious value.

Artificial lures can works extremely well, even outfishing natural bait, - sometimes.

All fisherman tend to develop favorite baits and lures - and few fisherman agree on what those should be.

I think you should ask around, talk to folks, try stuff yourself, and resign yourself to developing several types of natural bait and of artificial lures in which you have developed confidence.

A guided fishing trip or two can advance your learning more quickly than almost anything else.

Good luck - and leave a few for me!
Posted by: GradyT34

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 12:47 PM

To make sure I understand (and at the expense of being a little redundant), is this the situation with using artificial lures while pole fishing: there are some artificial lures that have been known to work well with pole fishing with certain species at certain times of the year, but if you travel a lot throughout the nation, its highly unlikely you'd have in a small survival fishing kit the right artificial lure at the right time if all you know how to do is pole fish and don't have a reel. That is why its best, when a newbies are putting together an emergency survival kit for pole fishing, to plan to only use live bait. If all you can do is pole fish, your wasting space in a survival kit by including any artificial lure.

If a newbie had no earthly idea as to what area of the country he or she might be in when he or she may need to use your emergency fishing kit, but if he or she could have one and only one artificial lure for general pole fishing, what would that artificial lure be?

Fine turning of this newbie's generalizations would be appreciated.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: GradyT34
If all you can do is pole fish, your wasting space in a survival kit by including any artificial lure.


Mild disagreement. It depends on how much of a kit, that is, how much space there is in your kit. The very, very small ice fishing spoons are not much bigger than a hook and are very effective on many, many species as they work without the need for bait as small minnow imitations (near universal bait) and are also designed to work tipped with bait. These lures are the kind of multi-taskers I would recommend for all but the most restricted survival kits.

But then, get any two fishermen together ....

An example (recommend the nickle back): http://www.customjigsandspins.com/icefishing/hardspoons/demon.html
Posted by: pteron

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 03:10 PM

One survival instructor I talked to reckoned that the fishing kit was included to keep you occupied. If he really wanted to catch fish, he'd use a gill net.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 03:14 PM

pole fishing with a big spoon is a method used around here for Pike.a long pole with heavy line and a red and white spoon that is swished side ways will attract big hungry fish.but your kit has to have what the fish around your possible survival area go for.i don't think a big spoon would catch anything in a trout brook in Pennsylvania.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/27/09 03:22 PM

As the story goes: Dee Thomas, often called the Father of Flipping, used what he called an old Italian technique to win too many bass tournaments. The technique was to use a very long pole with a little very heavy line on the end to figure-eight a surface lure in bassy-looking spots. Tournament rules to kill that technique restricted poles to eight feet in length so Thomas developed flipping to compensate. Pitching developed from there. Survival folks might want to go Italian on this one?!
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/31/09 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
pole fishing with a big spoon is a method used around here for Pike.a long pole with heavy line and a red and white spoon that is swished side ways will attract big hungry fish.but your kit has to have what the fish around your possible survival area go for.i don't think a big spoon would catch anything in a trout brook in Pennsylvania.


I would have to disagree... I have caught many a trout using the standard red/white spoon.

There are a couple of lures that I think are useful to carry.

1)spoon
2)rooster tail spinner
3)artificial minnow
4)I also like those small ice fishing type spoons/tear drops.

Now, without having a reel, it is tricky to get them to work right, but not impossible... By hand winding the line back onto something, you can get a decent action out of a lure.

Live bait is typically regarded as your best solution as you will use whatever bait you can find in the area you are fishing in, which would be a good match to catch local fish.

If you really need some fish, a gill net would be superior and folds quite compactly, esp if vacuum packed.
Posted by: scafool

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 07/31/09 10:49 PM

Mike, I think Canoedogs point was about the size of the spoons used for larger pike. I doubt if you are going to be using spoons 4 or 6 inches long for brook trout.

You are right about mepps spinners and small spoons being good for trout though. One of my favourites is a chartreuse little cleo spoon.
But lure fishing is an active method.

The reason for using baited trot lines and such methods is that they are passive methods. I can rig a set of lines and let them catch fish while I do other tasks.

Posted by: urbansurvivalist

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/02/09 02:37 PM

This has been a really informative thread, thanks everyone.

How would you use a gill net? Set it up to block a small stream and the fish get caught in it?
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/02/09 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: urbansurvivalist
How would you use a gill net? Set it up to block a small stream and the fish get caught in it?


Never used one but I can think of several uses, all involve putting the net where you think fish must or will swim. Blocking a small stream, or branch of a stream or river, creating such a smaller passaage with rocks, one person holding out the net while fish are driven toward them, and maybe set up on a handle and swwept through the water.

Hopefully someone who really knows will post.
Posted by: DannyL

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/02/09 06:24 PM

For you guys in the lower 48, what are your local laws and regs about having/using a gill net?
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/02/09 06:37 PM

CA illegal
Posted by: scafool

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/02/09 10:39 PM

Gill nets used to be a required piece of emergency gear for any planes operating in northern Canada.

Gill nets are meant to hang in open water like a curtain. They have floats on the top edge and weights on the bottom. You can rig them under ice on frozen lakes or hang them from logs.
The mesh is sized so a fish running into it gets stuck just past the gills and can not go ahead or back out of it, the mesh catches behind the gill covers. Gill nets can be very specific about what size of fish you catch, and even what species. Fish which are too small swim through the mesh and fish which are too big don't get far enough into the mesh to get caught.
Gill netting is a passive fish catcher. You set the net and come back later to haul it in. Gill nets kill the fish they catch. It might sound odd but the fish drown in them.

Most of the nets people refer to as gill net are actually seine nets and are meant to strain all the fish out of the water. They are usually much smaller mesh and only the smallest of fish can escape. They can be rigged to trap fish like a pound net, used like a purse net or as a fish trap. You can drag them through the water or set them up as a dip net. Usually you use them actively as a seine. You surround the fish with them and then pull them in like a bag.

Fish nets can be excused as hammocks and as carry bags, but try not to get caught with one rigged with floats weights and lines on it for fishing if you are camping near water.

Now if I was in a survival situation I would be happy to have a game warden appear and tell me I was fishing illegally.

It is odd how the law is different if you are actually in a survival situation.
Posted by: 2005RedTJ

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/03/09 12:55 AM

In a pill bottle in my bag I keep the following:

2 - 1/0 size worm hooks
2 - 2/0 size worm hooks
2 - small lead "pinch-on" weights
2 - medium lead "pinch-on" weights
2 - large lead "pinch-on" weights
2 - small lead sliding weights
2 - medium lead sliding weights
1 - small float
1 - 1/8 ounce "Rooster Tail" lure (my favorite lure for fishing)
1 - 4" "motor oil" colored worm
1 - 4" purple colored worm

And I have 100' of 6 pound test line wrapped around the pill bottle. I have zero doubt that I can catch fish with this gear, as I do a pretty good bit of fishing (most of it using the same exact gear).
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/03/09 01:45 AM

Key with all gear - use it so you know what you can do.
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/03/09 04:43 PM

Gill nets are typically illegal for "normal" fishing use... If it is vacuum packed away in your survival gear, hard to prove that you are actively using it.

However, in a survival situation, everything is valid to catch food. As scafool said, would be happy to have someone come along to fine me if I'm in a survival situation! ;-)

Gill nets can be used both in active and passive mode... The mesh size does determine what it will/won't catch, but it can be used much like a seine net in active mode.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/03/09 06:57 PM

Mike, you ever used one? If so, how did it work?
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/04/09 06:06 PM

Never used one as a leave behind gill net... Have used a seine net to catch fish for live bait... It is more of an active thing and they do well...

With active use, you want to "herd" the fish into a place they can't get to, then scoop up and out.

With the hand and leave, you just let the fish get tangled on their own accord. Once again, mesh size is the key to these two functions. Hard to try the leave method as it is illegal unless in a survival situation.
Posted by: dweste

Re: Questions From a Non-Fisherman - 08/04/09 06:47 PM

thanks. Use of a small gill net is one of many, many things it would be nice if a surival show got permission to show.