Something to Think About...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/01/greene.calls/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

That's an interesting read, I've often wondered how it can be legal to release those tapes.

If it was the People's right to know, it would be in the Constitution.

If we have any right to know, why aren't they releasing private conversations between government officials and the people who own and operate them, especially since it does concern US?

America is a country of voyeurs. People absorb their sex and other people's agony through their optic nerves. "Reality" has nothing to do with it. It's just voyeurism, and it's so incredibly pathetic that I doubt there is even a word for it.

Is the media going to exercise any good taste? NO. After all, why start NOW?

Is the American public going to refuse to watch it? NO. The garbage that they watch is an imitation of the useless, pointless, boring, ineffective lives they lead. Has anyone read 1984 recently?

Sue

I'd never before considered the propriety of airing 911 calls. But it is sensationalistic, to be sure.


"Most people calling 911 are not auditioning for a reality show; most people calling 911 are not doing it because they have any choice. The least we can do, the next time we find ourselves blithely listening to a tape of one of our fellow citizens in the most awful moments of suffering he or she will ever face, is perhaps to quietly ask ourselves:

Shouldn't we be better than this?"

I wouldn't single out us Americans- humans are voyeurs. Some people hide it better, but "bread and circuses" seems to be pretty universal.

I think any Country that has Internet Access,is a Country of "Voyeurs" In this day & age

I would think that any 911 call involving a medical situation would be protected under HIPAA (The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule).

HIPAA

Pete

While that's an intersting point Pete, doesn't HIPAA only cover medical issues between medical providers?

I bet they could say, well, the operator isn't forming a patient-provider relationship, so it's not truly confidential. Plus, there's no true "diagnosis" involved.

I have to say, I haven't heard too many 911 tapes. It's not like there's the "911 hour" on my local presets. Besides, if they air enough of the stupid ones, maybe people will get the point (you know, directions when lost, store hours, that kind of crap).

911 dispatchers aren't health care providers, no expectation of privacy exists, HIPAA does not apply. It doesn't apply in a lot of cases where it's claimed to apply actually but that's another topic all together.

John E

I cannot address other 911 systems, but here in Frederick and I belive all of Maryland, 911 dispatchers are at least EMT-Dispatchers and do provide medical guidance in the form of set of on-line medical protocols. I believe for at least medical 911 calls, a court order or at minimum, a formal request in writing from the lawyer of a potential plaintiff in a medical malpractice case is required.

Pete

When these tapes are played on television or radio they are meant for one thing only: To keep that viewer or listener on that channel. The old saying always stands true for any type of media: If it bleeds, it leads.

News programs are becoming less news and more TMZ.

Hmm...

By that logic, the Internet, telephones, television, radio, cell phones, ham radio - well, pretty much everything not mentioned in the constitution specifically - falls outside of the domain of the constitution. The "right to know" is, in fact, a part of the 5th and 9th Amendments, and the right to privacy is (supposedly) covered in the 4th amendment.

I'll tell you why I favor the release of 911 tapes.

It's because of a woman named Brenda who lived not far from me.

Brenda had cerebral palsy, and was confined to her bed.

Brenda smoked in bed, not a great idea, but smoking isn't illegal in your own home.

Well, one day, Brenda found herself in bed, and the bed was on fire. She called 911. The operator - who took a call for a WORKING FIRE - put her on hold. She burned to death.

From an incident report:

http://www.911dispatch.com/db/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2340&Itemid=484

"After the answer delay was discovered, there was speculation the delay might have contributed to her death. An investigation into the incident led to the Bucks County 911 center, where officials said on Feb. 13th that 10 dispatchers were on-duty and performing no work tasks when the 911 came in--they had "no reasonable explanation" for not answering the 911 call, officials said. Four supervisors on-duty at the time took no action to correct the situation, county officials said. County director of emergency communications Brent Wiggins told reporters that Orr's call rang six times, and that her call was put on hold for another 27 seconds by the male dispatcher. Wiggins appeared at a press conference to give a timeline of the events, the findings of the investigation and corrective actions. "

About a year later, stung by the news reports, and further screw-ups on the part of the 911 dispatchers here, Bucks Emergency communications attempted to block the release of 911 tapes to the media. Yes, it's ugly to have 911 calls as "entertainment" but you have to take a lot of bad to make sure there's accountability from your public services. I can assure you that the level of "1984" style surveillance on citizens in this country is most unwelcome when the cameras and recorders are turned back on the watchers. I could go on about a lot of subjects about the constitution and how powder and projectiles are the way to keep the government in check and I'll counter that perhaps the most powerful weapon in the battle for personal freedom is the cheap digital camera:

Cop Fired After Shoving Bicyclist to the Ground:
http://www.truveo.com/YouTube-Video-Forces-NY-Cop-Off-The-Job/id/288230386942773129

Cops Shoot Unarmed Man in the Back
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Video_shows_police_shooting_man_laying_0105.html

Cop Beat 15 Year Old Girl for "assault" with a cell phone:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7917295.stm

It's not just cops (my brother is a cop, I don't have an "thing" for catching bad cops, it's just these are in the news now).

I worked in Public service for 6 years as a volunteer firefighter. I was willing to accept a higher level of scrutiny (in fact I wish there was even more of it in general) when I was the president of the fire company, I welcome scrutiny while performing services, I think that an informed and intelligent populace who watches - closely - over how the services we all pay for are delivered is a free society.

Secrecy is almost always bad policy in government, there are very few situations where the public does not have a "need to know" anything they want about anything their elected and appointed and hired government workers are up to.

A few years ago, ETS received a 'cease and desist' letter from representatives for Aron Ralston. Readers will recall Aron was the solo hiker who amputated his own forearm.
Aron turned misfortune into publicity and a book deal, something many would give their right arm for in our culture.
But in doing so, Aron forgot that PUBLICITY by it's nature demands public reaction. The 'genie was out of the bottle.'
911 calls are a TAXPAYER funded service. They are not subsidised by later commercial use. There is no disclaimer or waiver of my right to privacy recorded before I speak to an operator.
Societies have ALWAYS held limits to information; from secret initiation rights into wo/manhood to the confessional and non disclosure agreements of employment.Celebrities are fighting for a balance between publicity and papparrazi flying overhead trying to photograph a pair of exposed breasts.
I'd comment further, but a pair of young lady scientologists are knocking on doors. My APT complex has a sign posted warning of tresspassing, but they seem to have ignored it. Dropping my jeans and BVDS as the bell rings.

Maryland may have their own rules about getting access to 911 tapes, my point was and remains that it has nothing to do with HIPAA.

And with all due respect, calling a 911 dispatcher a health care provider is a bit of a stretch no matter what their training is. Even if one were to call them that, HIPAA doesn't apply. A quick overview of the DHS's HIPAA website will confirm this.

John E

Neither is NASA, neither is the national weather service, neither is the Interstate Highway system....

Look, you can have all your secret man-clubs, and all that.

Don't use my tax money for it and that's fine by me. You take a dollar from me and spend it, 9 times out of 10, I deserve to know what that money was used for, no matter what. The 911 calls - you know what, while my last post was a bit of a bash on the 911 operators, do you know how many BS calls they get a day? I'd like to see THOSE released as well - people calling and reporting a barking dog. People calling to complain about the food at Mc Donalds. Waste is a 2 way street. You can't complain about government waste if people think government services are limitless resources. I'd be happy to see the name and address of some jerk who abused 911 - and a copy of their call - posted to the internet. They deserve it.

I am sure glad I am not important enough to warrant anyone wanting to listen to any 911 call I am in.

Regardless, it seems to me a moot point. In this day and age, there can no longer any reasonable expectation of privacy. Anyone who really wants to hear what you said can do it easy enough. Information control is just an illusion, one I've pierced many, many times.

In Maryland EMT-Ds are considered health care providers and are part of the overall EMS system. Any and all EMTs/EMT-Ps are bound by HIPPA if their jurisdiction has cost recovery through ambulance billing fees. Field providers are required to have every patient, guardian or patient representative sign a HIPPA release form. The release allows for obtaining payment from the patient’s insurance company.

Pete

Victorian mores were outraged when telephones were installed in homes. IMAGINE! outsiders actually entering one's english castle!
Then people became angry when answering machines came into use. IMAGINE! not being in direct contact with the party!And now we are part of this collective termitorium with things sticking out of our ears and talking into air. My crazy aunt used to do that, the one who climbed onto the roof in storms with a flashlight to warn ships in the San Fernando Valley.
I value my privacy. To that end I have ignored much of this new Big Brother 24/7 saturation of connectivenes.The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled off was convincing people he didn't exist.
I've had people complain I can be hard to contact. Sometimes, I give them pause as to why they wanted to.
To hear this message in Spanish press 2
to have this message repeated press 4
to speak to a live operator( in Mumbai with an unitelligable acent) press 7
To contact Chris Kavanaugh send a postcard
I'll get back to you

Bingo!

Okay, so I guess next time I am in trouble I will just log into Facebook or Twitter and leave a 3rd person comment. "Comms is stuck at mile marker 181 on the I-10. With flat. Send help."

The four-way split:
Privacy is good, everyone has some expectation of it. Most people prefer toilet stalls with a door.

Privacy is bad, it is the breeding ground of hypocrisy. A recent study showed that highly conservative and religious states partake of as much porn on average as the more liberal and irreligious states. As the joke goes: Baptists who easily recognize each other on Sunday morning develop memory loss when they see each other in the liquor store and the porn isle in the video store.

Small towns are an interesting study of both the good and bad of everyone knowing everyone's business. There is often little to fear if everyone's secrets are out in the open.

Open records allow oversight. Closed records invite corruption and abuse. Sunshine is a good disinfectant. Experience in England is that police are often less prone to abuse when they understand that their actions are probably on tape.

When talking to police, calling 911, posting things online and using e-mail don't assume your anonymous. Generally avoid saying anything you would be embarrassed about if it was put on a billboard with you name on it.

Victims often fear giving a detailed account of their abuse because they fear they are to blame and nobody will understand. Abusers use this to keep victims quiet and make them feel alone and isolated. Generally when detailed and intimate accounts of attacks are revealed people immediately understand that it can happen to anyone. That similar events have been done to many. That the victim is not to blame. That the abuser is the problem.

Generally abusers and bullies have far more to fear when events are laid bare and exposed in the light.

Invite the MAN into your life, whether you wanted to or not, and it won't be pretty. The .gov pretty much rolls over the individual with few exceptions.

Unfortunately, IMHO, open records laws can be abused also. My state is a good example: our local newspaper has published a link that allows access to the concealed carry permit database. The public has a "right to know" if a neighbor or co-worker carries a concealed weapon. That link also identified address and age of the permit holder too, until the link was modified.
As in the 911 tape discussion, and in my case the CCW permit issue, I just don't see how anyone's rights are protected by publishing this information - - but I do feel my right to privacy ("peaceful enjoyment") is bruised.

[by the way, I'll argue that HIPAA probably does not apply to 911 calls themselves even if a jurisdiction has ruled that the 911 employees, etc. SHALL comply with HIPAA. If you want a thrilling read, read the HIPAA privacy and security regulations themselves--- not some department or health facility lawyer's interpretation of such. I'm the "HIPAA Compliance Officer" in our practice (I missed a meeting and got elected)] But excuse my digression.