EDCing a pocket CPR mask and nitrile gloves

I just got the 16 hours first aid and CPR training and now I'm a so called Certified First Responder. We practiced on mannequins, familiarized ourselves with defibrillators, practiced tying triangular bandages etc.

Now if all you can do is call 911 because you don't have nitrile gloves and a CPR mask on you when it happens, then all this training is useless. So do you carry a pocket CPR mask and nitrile gloves everyday? Do you have tips and recommendations? Have you ever had to perform compressions and breathing and all that stuff?

Thanks
Frankie

Congrats!
Do I EDC a CPR mask and gloves? Short answer: No. But, I do have a FAK in my car, and my backpack has a CPR mask (when I have it with me). There's a thread somewhere where a lot of us posted our FAK's.

So you're probably asking why I don't carry stuff. First, I'm an EMT, so you'd think I should. And for a time I did carry a mask on my keychain. But it was big and bulky, and never got used. With the recent changes in CPR (in the US at least), they're really going away from the mouth-to-mouth part, and just doing compressions till EMS arrives. If I happen to stop in my car, then I have the equipment for an extended full arrest, but if I'm just around town, I figure I can push on a chest for the 5 or so minutes till EMS arrives. The lungs, btw, do have quite a bit of air that we don't use, which is why the no-breathing methods still work.

As for why I don't wear gloves, it's cuz most of the time, you aren't exposed to things. Intact skin is a great barrier to infection (or else we'd all be dead a week after being born). Unless there's body fluids everywhere, or the person has some raging skin/lung infection, I just don't worry about it. Hand washing is pretty much all one needs to avoid transmission. Even then, if someone's blood or vomit or saliva hits my hand, as long as I don't have a cut or scrape in that area, I still don't freak much.

I can't tell you why, but as an EMT on an ambulance it was gloves on every patient. But in the ER, it was "as needed." Probably cuz we had access to hand foam and sinks immediately, whereas on the ambulance we'd wait a half hour until we dropped the patient off to wash off.

Anyway, after 12 years of EMS, I still haven't caught anything nasty. Probably can blame a few colds on patients, but that's a mask thing. YMMV.

I used to carry the American Red Cross keychain pack. Every local Red Cross chapter sells them. I stopped carrying it after about a year because it was just so bulky (and to be honest, weird). I still carried just gloves for another 2-3 years. I kept them in a second wallet with a couple other supplies. If you've got the pocket space, a second wallet is a really easy way to carry stuff. I like gloves as an a good alternative water carrier in a PSK.

I still have a shield stuck in my "car crash" bag in my car, but that's it. I carry gloves in both of our cars and a kit that I keep in my laptop bag, but they're not always with me anymore.

The shields kind of suck. You probably didn't even use one in class. I honestly doubt I would use one even if I had it with me unless there was some blood and it was a younger stranger.

I've dealt with a couple bloody traumas and a puker without wearing gloves. You can gauge the risk based on the patient and minimize it with layers of fabric or plastic or anything else you can grab, but nothing beats having a couple pairs of gloves (and water to scrub with).

What sucks is that I've dealt with patients in locations like church or stores that should have their own equipment and their staff should have some minimal training. You sure can't count on any staff member touching a patient or even bringing you a first aid kit. If you jump into a situation like that, you need to expect to have to run the entire scene. Make them call 911 and make them do it from a land-line phone not their cell phone. That way the dispatch center will get the right street address automatically from the caller id. Have someone meet the EMTs, show them which building, and bring them to you. Ask them if they have a first aid kit, blankets, towels, etc. and make them bring them to you.

Don't worry about asking them to bring you a bunch of legal forms to sign waiving your right to sue them. They'll have those there for you automatically before the EMTs even show up. My personal advice would be to disappear into the crowd once the EMTs take over. Don't sign anything and don't give your name to anyone. You won't get a medal for your effort. You're more likely to get a subpoena instead.

I've never had to perform CPR for real but I saw it done once. She didn't survive. I don't think any class I've seen really prepares you for the mental aspects. A dummy just doesn't make the same sounds as a real person. More importantly, you don't talk about feeling guilt because you couldn't save a person. It's even worse with all the movies and TV shows where 15 seconds of CPR, chest pounding, and yelling always bring the patient back.

Yeah, they really need a dummy where the ribs break and you're crunching every time you push down, with a free floating sternum bouncing around.

And they need to make you do CPR like 15 minutes by yourself...

Crunching ribs are OK.
If their heart is not beating they are dead anyhow.

Carry gloves for 7 years, never used them, mask in my kit.

I was a LEO for 30+ years, EMT for 20+. I still have a pocket mask and gloves in my car kit. Carried a shield/gloves in a cargo pocket for years, finally stopped. I have never had to do a thing off duty (lucky me). On duty I did full blown CPR probably 20+ times, once for over a half hour (talk about tired!). Lost every one of them (all from closed head injuries after being ejected from an overturning vehicle at high speeds...wear those seat belts)...

Good for you for going through training, regardless of whether it was a personal choice or a work requirement.

Like others, just carrying one of those little pouches with a mask and gloves become inconvenient. I don't carry one of those little kits. I would not say that your training is useless since information is generally more critical than equipment. Whether you want to "go hands on" on a real emergency, with or without protective gear, is a choice that you will have to make for yourself. But beyond that simple choice, being able to remember what you were taught is the most important thing. If you don't periodically refresh your memory, it becomes very easy to forget.

I was recently re-certified using a different protocol from what I had last been taught, and just now, I'm embarrassed to say that I couldn't immediately remember the new protocol until I thought about it for a minute. During the extreme stress of a real emergency, I imagine that it would've been even harder for me to recall the information. I need to pull out the materials from that class again...

One step to take is to find out where the first aid kit and AED are located in places where you regularly spend time, like the gym, at work, or the supermarket. Obviously, every situation is different, but if you want protective equipment, then you may be able to retrieve them from those resources.

Although this outcome is the exception rather than the rule, here's a very recent "save" of someone by a regular person using CPR and an AED, as inspiration to keep mentally refreshing that first aid and CPR information. This guy is a hero in my book.

CPR Saves Fallen Tennis Player

I've carried a mini-shield and a pair of gloves on my keychain for at leat 10 years, was a volunteer firefighter/EMT. I used the MDI CPR microshield, removed the paper liner/direction sheet and refolded the shield with a pair of nitrile gloves wrapped around it. No more bulky than the original package, about 2x3, and 1 inch-ish thick. The bad news is without the paper wrapping the shield seems to crack on the seams a bit sooner, but I still got a good 3 years out of them and did not have an issue replacing them for 8 or so bucks. Used it once, was glad I had it with me instead of in the car or somewhere else, can't beat having it on you when you're out. On the keyring pretty much insures you don't have to worry about sticking it in a pocket or whatever. Space in the pocket was no issue with cargo pants, but is at a premium in jeans.

Gloves were used way more often, happened upon plenty of vehicle collisions in the course of driving around so I found the gloves pretty useful.

I EDC this everyday in my car, I keep it there 24/7

Mike

Car, office, home, and daypack all have FAK's with mask and gloves, but, I don't actually EDC them on me. I have a couple of the Red Cross keychain kits floating around too, in glove compartments of our cars. I figure that under most situations, I have one of those options handy.

I recert regularly on WFA and CPR, but, mostly cause we require having 2 people certified on any outdoor trips with the troop. When I was a volunteer on SAR years ago (80's) in the White Mountains, I did the "old fashioned" 2 person CPR once, drowning situation, no mask....... someone mentioned in an earlier post how the training doesn't prepare you for breaking a rib, or an unsuccessful attempt... they also don't mention the concept of projectile vomit...

Yeah I EDC surgical gloves. But I also use a backpack so plenty of room. It might be a bit prissy but I use the surgical gloves for all kinds of stuff like dealing with greasy bike chains when in nice clothes among other things.

I did carry a key CPR mask in my car or gym bag but stopped.

It was a work requirement.



They gave us a book and a booklet (protocol) to put in the first aid kit. The trainer knew the pages by heart as if it was the bible. It was funny, he asked us to name a page and he would tell us exactly what was the subject at that particular page. He made many jokes.



I know. They emphasized this.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Frankie

In the 70's I helped found a volunteer ambulance corps that serves a very busy urban area. I became an EMT when you could be certified in a challange written/practical exam. I've done CPR dozens, yes dozens of times, both with and without equipment. In all that experience, I only had three sucessful rescitations. But heh, three is better than none. I don't carry gloves and a mask in my pockets, but they're part of my home/car/briefcase kits.

Back in college when I was en EMT I kept gloves all over and a Laredel Pocket Mask in my book bag. The mask and a set of gloves made the transition with me to the working world and stayed exactly where I put them in my briefcase for years. I have no idea where they are now.

I recently joined my local volunteer EMS squad, and I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule, for the time being. My first call with the squad was last week. 60-something male with chest pains. All went well until we were about halfway to the ER, when he crashed big time. CPR and defib in a moving ambulance with lights and sirens blaring sure is exciting. The good news is that the patient was taken off the respirator this morning. He lived. (Very different from the traumatic arrests others have spoken of, where there is very little chance of successful resuscitation.) This is the first CPR I've been involved in, and the fact that it worked has me totally in awe.

I don't think I could watch someone go down without helping, so I feel I owe it to my family to get a mask back into my bag, which is with me almost all of the time when I'm out of the house.

Jesselp, good for you!!

And many, many thanks for giving your time and energy to help in this way.

If you are TRAINED in pre-hospital care, do you have a legal obligation to lend assistance?

NO

Do you have a moral obligation?

I believe so.

This is a decsion I belive we all need to make before confronted with an incident.

If you decide you will help, then be prepared.

Cardinal rule when assisting someone you don't know; If it's wet don't get it on you! PERIOD! There are just to many things out there that once you are exsposed they never go away. Many are fatal, many more will make your life miserable for the rest of your days.

Just not worth taking the chance.

I've got a simple mask (AMK's CPR Medic got used for parts of my EDC FAK), and three pairs of nitrites.

That being said, if I didn't have them, I'm not sure if it would stop me.

"...I'm not sure if it would stop me..."

Be very careful doing that. Victims, 'specially if the rescuer is getting too much air into their stomach, have a tendency to upchuck, right into your mouth if you don't have a mask. That is why they invented the one way valve. Rough it would be, but in todays world, there are kids being born with AIDS and other nasty things every day. I will not go bareback on anyone I don't know, period...

I know the risks. But I also know me. I not sure I could stand there and sit on my hands. That is why I carry a mask. :P I know I'm prone to being a bonehead.

Ok, to be honest, for SOME people, I know I could do it.

Took the ARC course about a year or two ago. Bought an MDI cpr microshield and glove kit immediately and it is always with me. Takes up next to no room. Buy extras to keep in the car and BOB kit, kayak, etc and to practice with so your familiar with it when the need arises. Nothing worse than not being able to open it under stress.

The catalog number or part number for the one I have is 70-160.

I think next I am going to take an EMT course. I was raised a surgeons son with many family member in the business. I'm the black sheep looking in from the outside.

"...I not sure I could stand there and sit on my hands..."

I know what you mean. Maybe I should go back to stuffing a CPR shield into a cargo pocket, just in case...

I am with you OBG. When I was a firefighter/1st responder we never, never would go bareback....and this holds true for today. I carry a mask with a one way valve at all times in the 1st aid kit.

I also have done CPR more times then I wish to think about sometimes. In total, I have only been involved with 2 successful resuscitations and you are correct, they are better then none....

It might be very entertaining to watch you try.

Slight clarification here: I was always taught that once you've been identified as being some sort of trained individual, then you do have the legal responsibility to act.

So, if you have a big Star Of Life on your window, or wear your "Mayville EMS" hat or something, then you actually do need to stop and render aid. A big reason I don't do that much anymore.

I don't think that is true everywhere when not on the clock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

Welcome to the group and congratulations on completing an ARC course. If you are considering taking an EMT course, first join a local Fire and/or EMS Department. To the best of my knowledge in all 50 states, an EMT is sanctioned under a government entity (through certification or license) such as, Department of Health, Department of Transportation or Emergency Medical Agency/Institute (there may be others). Most, if not all require you to be a member of a local Fire and/or EMS and operate under a Local Medical Director Department (one exception is for commercial ambulances services, which have their own Medical Director), who determines what local optional protocols to implement for that locality.

Wilderness EMT may be an alternative to consider, in that the training may be obtained though one of the commercial companies. However, WEMT may not be recognized or may still be sanctioned by your state with the same requirements as a standard EMT program.

Pete

Most of the time, if you see somebody ambulating go down and don't get up after you open her airway and give her a few compressions, you will be needing an automatic external defibrillator.

All the ventilating and cardiac massaging in the world won't help a bit, if the conduction system isn't working. You might get a little oxygen to the brainstem, but that only means you're looking at twenty years in a persistent vegetative state instead of dead. Odds of leaving the hospital in a position other than supine zipped up in plastic are less than 5%.

Yeah, OK, it's a little over a thousand dollars, but that's just a couple of PLB's right? Besides, you're EDCing because you want to help, so get the right equipment. If not, just resign yourself to the fact that for every minute that goes by without defibrillation, survival goes down by 10% or more.

Improving Survival From Sudden Cardiac Arrest (external link to JAMA)

PS. I have done mouth-to-mouth resuscitation just once when I was a student and came across a "Found Dead" on rounds with the Critical Care fellow. She smacked me good on the back of the head and started Ambu-bagging. It's a strange feeling to actually see that chest rise as you blow in and hear that rattly exhalation sound. Still remember it all these decades later.

PPS. If it sounds like I'm a firm believer in everyone having an AED, it's only as much as Doug is a firm believer in everyone having a PLB. The technology is here to save lives, so go get it!