Ad Infiinitem, or make do...

More and more, I have come to realize that while necessity may be the mother of invention, desire is the mother of excess. I've noticed that my new home is quite cluttered with, as the late George Carlin would classify it, "Stuff". I believe that I have acquired so much "stuff" now that most of it is no longer of any use, simply because it is buried under piles of other stuff that I haven't found a suitable storage location for yet. Because it is not being used, I probably don't need most of it anymore, but on the off chance that I might have to use some of it at some point, the paradox then is what stuff do I get rid of and what stuff do I keep. Some of this stuff is expensive, and also won't last forever, so not only does that make it harder to get rid of, but it makes me think I may need to get more expensive stuff to eventually replace the expensive stuff I have before it is no good anymore. Which brings up another problem, upgrades. What do I do with the stuff that I've replaced with better stuff? The original stuff worked fine, and is still good, and cost me money, but because I have new and improved stuff, the old good stuff is no longer useful either.

I have the same sort of problem everytime I try to pack for an adventure. I only have so much room for stuff, but I can't make up my mind on what all I need to bring with me. There are somethings, like underwear and socks, that I always know I have to pack along, but what about all the other things I might need? I would prefer to go hiking with a 40 lb backpack, but somehow I end up with a 60 lb load or more because I just can't leave home without grabbing one more item that I could possibly use. Then I end up with 80 lbs in a bulging pack and spend the next two hours trying to determine which things I would likely need the least. It is a nightmare!

I need to start thinking like a minimalist. I got rid of a lot of stuff when the kids left for college, but then my wife and I replaced what was taken with other stuff. Most of it is convenience items. For instance, I upgraded from a hand cranked sausage grinder to an attachment for my kitchenaid so I wouldn't have to work so hard. Then I upgraded to an independent motorized version capable of grinding much more meat so it didn't take me so long. Then I needed a sausage stuffer because the motorized grinder took too long and too much effort to stuff the casings with, then I needed a meat mixer because with all the meat I was grinding it was too much for my hands to work at one time. I went from one tool that took up a little space to three pieces of equipment that fill one whole cabinet. I make so much sausage now that I give most of it away. My reasoning: if I am going to work to make sausage, why work so hard to make such a small amount at one time? Is it saving me any money? No, in fact if you amortize the cost of all the equipment and the losses I am taking on giving away all the extra sausage I am making, it is probably costing me three times more than what I would pay at the store. Of course, now I can claim I am a sausage making master, and that my sausage is superior to the store bought stuff because I know what I put in my sausage and it is all good. Do you think anybody would pay three times more for my sausage than what they would have to pay at the store? A drunk Conan would say, "Lot on your knife!" All because I thought making my own sausage would somehow be better than those Johnsonville things?

My conclusion is that sometime in the future I expect to sell all my sausage making equipment at a garage sale for pennies on the dollar, retaining the original hand grinder I started with just because some day I expect to be showing off to my grandson some novel skills that will make him think I am a god. We will then eat the stuff we made together and pronounce it good and he will have one more fond memory of his childhood, just like I did with my Grandad.

Besides, taking care of all that stuff all the time is becoming a real chore. If I don't then it rusts, or rots, or just plain goes bad somehow, and becomes worthless anyways. I never have enough time to do anything with most of it, because I have to work all the time to pay for that stuff and to get more stuff.

I feel a life lesson coming on here. Does catharsis apply to a pile of stuff?

I should introduce you to my good friend eBay. I have been selling stuff all Winter, and padding my savings account with the proceeds.

Ebay scares me on many levels. I need to find a chick like in the movie "40 year old virgin" That will help me sell it all. It'd be like an estate sale. ha ha ha

Maybe you are waging a private war to save the environment?
More than 80% of the stuff people buy is in the dump 3 months later.
Thank you for your brave, but futile, effort to preserve the future viability of our landfill sites.

Hmmm, not eBay, maybe Craig's List?

I know how that feels. If you started with a Latin saying, there's another one. Non multa, sed multum. Which you could paraphrase as don't try to do too many different things at once but concentrate on one, get good at it and invest your resources there.

Ebay is not a bad idea. It's a great place to buy and sell second-hand stuff. It has issues but for the most part, they're blown out of proportion. I never had a single truly bad experience but I did pay attention to the people's feedback and track record. So caveat emptor (or venditor in your case)...

Anyway, I've been in pretty much the same situation and I sure don't regret selling the stuff I no longer needed. I didn't make much profit (if any) but my apartment just suddenly felt a whole lot bigger and nicer after getting rid of the junk. So that's worth something as well in my book.

I'm sure you have plenty of stuff you'd be happier without. Just as you have stuff that might seem superfluous right now but maybe you'd miss it if you no longer had it.

If making sausage is something you enjoy, who cares if you can buy the "same" thing cheaper at the store? There's more to life than just money. You know the sausage from the store won't ever be the same because nothing can compare to real wholesome homemade cooking. Of course, I'm biased because I like sausage a lot but what the heck.

Sausage making was a proper venture for me to expand on my culinary experience, but I could see where it would turn into a chore real quick, just like any hobby that gets out of hand. For years I just dabbled with it and made small batches just to play with flavors and such, but last year I really got it in my blood to see just how far I could go with it within my economic means. A few hundred pounds of sausage later, and I have a number of decent recipes, good equipment, and a dent in my savings account. I also have friends that have one more good reason to hang around me. As you suggest, somethings in life aren't about the bottom line in the profit/loss column, as not everything we do is recompensed in dollars.

Of course, I am still waiting for Sue's order. I've never tried goat sausage before.

I have never had a problem either. I have conducted over 200 transactions on eBay.

I am sorting my gear and camping stuff, sending excess to friends who want it. Trying to free up storage space.

An involuntary tactic:

Lose the home and live on a small sailboat. Not much room for stuff equals not much stuff.

Not sure I would recommend it.

Be careful. I've more than one person tell me that NOT buying to support the economy is un-American.

As for getting rid of some stuff. Ask around, Craig's List, and the fore mentioned ebay ; there might be people at work or living next door interested acquiring. There is also donation. I stumbled upon a bunch of lab equipment that I salvaged. When I hadn't used it after 3 years I gave to a local high school, and they were very happy to put it to use.

Maybe Doug can start an exchange corner or something.

http://www.getmilked.com/comics/AndInThisRoom.html

Americans are slaves to stuff.

I could stock an REI.

Have gotten rid of a bit in the past few months. Sold a tent. Gave a backpack to a niece who is taking up hiking.

Clutter is bad chi.

In another window I have a shirt in my REI "shopping cart."

You may have just saved me $29.

But it originally cost $65 so buying it would "save" $36.

Decisions....

That's it in a nutshell, going broke while saving money.

Benjammin, I truly feel your pain!!!

I am currently cleaning out my garage with 99% ruthlessness and 100% lack of mercy. If I haven't used it in a year (usually during the last 7 years) and it isn't a critical piece of survival Bug In type of gear,,,,,then it's gone!!!!!

In regards to the survival gear question, I'm divvying up my excess between two ETS'ers and sending the gear to them. It's understaood that if I send them something that they have no use for, then they will find someone nearby that can use that extra piece of equipment.

Great topic.

A basic truth of the human psyche that gets in our way when we want to "de-stuff" our lives...

People are more motivated by loss (or fear thereof) than gain (or promise thereof).

How often do we find ourselves saying "But what if I need it for..." and the like? The truth is we are more worried about what happens if we don't have it than motivated by whatever small gain we might garner by keeping it.

If you really want to de-stuff your life, recognize that tendency in all of us and push it aside for what it is... fear.

That's my psuedo-philosophical moment of the week. -smirk-

As it turns out that REI shirt on sale for $29 also is subject to an additional 20% off, making it $23.

So I bought two.

I'm a consumer-patriot.

America needs us.

:-0

I grew up in a household where my mom saved all the bacon grease in a can in the fridge, and when it filled up, she tossed it and started a new one. One day I asked her why, and she said it was something her mom had done and didn't really know why. Ironically, if she had asked *me*, I could have told her exactly why--she was born in 1935 and my Scots grandmother was contributing that grease to the "war effort."

Unfortunately, growing up that close to the Depression and war years influenced my mom's habits and hence my own. I've also lived through periods of deprivation, one a very bad time when meat for the month was literally a couple 3# boxes of bacon ends. Rearing 7 kids on a farm that had limited water during the summer meant piles of extra clothes. Not to mention enough food to outfit Coxie's Army at a moment's notice.

So while I'm mentally capable of surviving just about anything, I'm emotionally attached to my "stuff." Stuff=security. And I'm also guilty of having to move one pile in order to get to something I really use, albeit occasionally. I've read more decluttering and organizing books than I can remember, but the stuff persists.

I refuse to do garage sales as they are much more hassle than they're usually worth. I've also had excellent experience on eBay as both a buyer and seller, but that too takes time. DH has sold several things on eBay, but his junk is actually collectible. We actually have one of those "go-between" outfits in our dinky little town, but most of my stuff wouldn't be worth the effort.

Then I discovered Freecycle, and that my trash is truly someone else's treasure. It's really good karma to be able to let go of your stuff, and between that and Goodwill, I've been able to "release" a lot of perfectly good things to happy, grateful people. In return, I've gotten items that I genuinely needed for free--like over 100 brand new frames for the beehives we're getting this spring.

There's nothing wrong with re-gifting either. I just tell the new recipient, "you know, someone gave me this/I had this just sitting there collecting dust, and I really thought you might be able to make use of it/like it." The recipient is usually touched by your thoughtfulness, and you're twice blessed by your generosity and a shiny new freed up space.

Jane

I belong to Accumulators Anonymous--it's a twelve step program: it's only twelve steps to the dumpster

Someday, I must re-inventory and photograph the thousands of dollars worth of custom leather craft tools I own. It may make you feel better about the three items.

Of course, there is one problem.....

I will have to clean the garage to get to the roll around tool chest they are stored in.

Oh yeah, I know there was someone here on ETS looking for a custom knife sheath recently. It isn't that I didn't want to do it, It would have been a year of waiting on me to clean that part of the garage to get to the tools. Please take no offense.

I had a friend who used to shop heavily at the town dump. I was teasing him about it at the coffee shop one day by asking him about their warranty.
His answer was answer was that the warranty was unbeatable, all you had to do was return it and get back what you paid with no questions asked.

6 months after that the township paid the town Reeve's uncle to be the guard on the dump and he set up a second hand table. (Just gotta love small town politics)

Yeah, we are slaves to our "Stuff" we haul it from place to place in semi trucks every time we move.

Oh no, not another leather tool freak?!!!

I have boxes full of leather, dyes, tools, patterns, books, etc. I'm also over $1,000 into it, and even have an old saddle I started working on 7 years ago that I haven't touched since then except to move it from place to place. Tandy keeps sending me emails and catalogs, and I just have to delete them or throw them in the garbage unopened because there's always one more tool or pattern or leather on sale that I just can't resist. Ugh...

I've just gone through my wardrobe again last weekend and tossed half a dozen shirts and pants to the wife to take to Goodwill collection, and yet my closet is still full of clothes.

Then there's all that cast iron sitting in my garage, I reckon I probably have over two tons of it, 90% of which I haven't used in the past 5 years.

Then there's all my cookbooks. I now have two 6 foot shelving units full of cookbooks. I just bought another one at Christmas. I also gave half a dozen to my youngest daughter (my big culinary arts books) since she is working to become a chef someday. I should probably think about scanning them and putting them on DVDs or something.

Then there's the war room. Besides the 1/2 ton gun safe that is full and takes up 1/4 of the room, there's also the shelves of hunting, fishing, hiking and survival gear, and boxes of reloading supplies, tackle boxes, heavy coats, waders, tents, sleeping bags, backpacks, gun cases, gun cleaning supplies etc. I have no placed to set up a reloading bench now until I can rearrange and/or get rid of some of the clutter in that room.

I could go on, the garage is unusable as a garage because it is packed full of tools, decorations, and stuff that we couldn't get in the house, like a spare clothes dryer and dishwasher. It just goes on and on.

And I thought you had just finished moving Ben.

Yes, just moved, got rid of a bunch of stuff, then got a bunch more.

That's why I gotta change modes. If I don't, my house is gonna be completely dedicated to storage, and I will be living in my pickup.

Benjammin,

There must be some cable show you could star in.

Perhaps for an entire season.

I'm feeling a tremendous kinship.

This forum could start a co-op.

REI started as a co-op and technically still is.

I have no desire to bother with a garage sale but if there were a consignment shop for outdoor gear I might go for that.

Have an extra mountain bike (actually I have three mountain bikes, one I consider a spare), a few hardly-used campstoves, couple more tents to sell. And then there's the unused organizer bag collection....

Am perpetually one great bag away from being organized.

<grin>...yup...I've heard that too...mainly from people living paycheck-to-paycheck and in debt up to their rear-ends!

IMHO rampant, needless consumerism, squandering of resources, leaving my country devoid of manufacturing capacity, and the transferrence to national wealth to countries who don't like us anyway is inherently MORE un-American. I could be wrong.

We're slowly paring down as well. I've taken a boatload of stuff to Goodwill. More is on the way...little by little...

Ben,

I live less than 15 miles on the road from both the headquarters and the warehouse for Tandy. Plus the fellow who bought Tandy Leathers (from the Tandy Corp.).......

We built his last 2 houses.

I think thats a good idea... we all have stuff that we need to get rid of. Maybe an ETS members only Freecycle/trade board??

I'm doing the same thing. It's nice to lighten the load. I've sold over $1700 worth of stuff in the past month alone.

I've also been buying stuff cheap on Craigslist and reselling on eBay for a profit. Mostly laptops. I'll give them a little TLC and make a few bucks, but if I see anything that is way underpriced, I'll pick it up locally and sell it on eBay.

The more available storage space we have the more stuff we accumulate. At least for me. Thats why I prefer small/med. EDC bags, otherwise I'd be a mobile pack rat. I find setting limits on the amount of space dedicated to "stuff" helps keep clutter down.

If you are talking about copies of DVD you bought legally, then I don't think you should have any legal issues. However, if you copied or burned them, selling such copies might be a problem.

You wouldn't make as much money, possibly a tax deduction, but you might check with the local library and see if they want those DVDs. Many library systems will, withing certain limits on subject matter and licensing, accept and put to good use books, CDs and DVDs.

An acquaintance gave away about ten years of a magazine he had collected. The library gave him credit for the full magazine stand price of the magazines for tax purposes. Roughly three times what he paid as a subscription. He was then able to apply this to his taxes and have about $150 come back in his tax return. Not a bad return for what would have been filler for the landfill if he hadn't donated them.

E-bay, consignment shops, libraries and public service organizations, are potential places to have your discards do some good. Some give you some return. Others you just get a warm feeling and get your halo polished.

Just a thought...

Why couldn't one or two people who know how to sell on eBay set up a 'store', and put up for sale all that stuff you guys don't want. The eBay dealer takes a certain percentage, includes shipping in the price, the owner/seller does the actual shipping, and the store/seller sends them a check for the whole amount, minus their percentage?

Keeping in mind that I really don't know what I'm talking about...

Sue

Sounds like a good idea to me. A shop specializing in survival, preparedness, and camping gear that has been pre-owned and/or lightly used. Sold at a discount or a nominal cost.

I am notoriously frugal and tend to use, reuse and patch gear until it is useful only as compost. I have gear that is thirty years old and, although patched and not quite as pretty as it once was, it still works. Even if it has been demoted to less stressful jobs. Stuff I used to use to hike with, now carries lunch. It also means I rarely buy new gear and tend to be a little skeptical of the claims that this or that new product is a substantial improvement over what has been around a long time.

That said I have pensioned off gear to friends and family of friends and generally like the idea of recycling and reusing it. I also think that people getting into preparedness or camping is a generally good thing. If the availability of reduced price but reliable gear gets more people involved so much the better.

Setting up an exchange or store specializing in used gear might be made easier because a lot of people tend to go through cycles of heavy then lighter emphasis on equipment. I know people who have started with borrowed camping gear. Went on to get deeply involved for a few years and spend thousands of dollars on new gear and then, for various reasons, found they only actively used a small fraction of what they bought.

Lots of people find that after a time they settle on a few favorite pieces and the remainder, often enough to equip several people, just acts as closet filler. No reason this excess shouldn't be sold and reused.

Your idea for an e-store sounds like a grand idea.

+1

An ETS "store" for used goods would be cool. I think you'd have to set it up whereby the seller would keep the item until it's sold and then ships it directly to the buyer otherwise you'd have to ship the item to whoever is running the store and then ship it again to the end buyer.

Not sure if Ebay is the way to go, they're gonna take a percentage of each listing whether it sells or not, which is fair but what if it were possible to funnel some of the money to the ETS foundation instead?

What would be needed is a pretty simple website that allows the posting of multiple photographs and someone to keep it organised, pay for the domain and server etc.

The seller would have to provide a description and some photos of each item and agree to forward a percentage to the foundation. Otherwise you'd have to set up some sort of payment system on the site which is gonna cost more and require more band width and more work for whoever runs the site.

Another idea, there is already a marketplace forum, we could ask Doug to make it accessible for individuals to sell only used gear with a percentage sent to the foundation in return for the listing privilege. Set some reasonable limits on number of items one person can list and make the donation a reasonable amount and easy to make and I know I'd use it.

I'm on another web forum/group dedicated to overland/expedition travel that has such a listing for members to use, I've picked up a couple of items there for very reasonable prices and without really competing with the site's advertisers. I read still another web forum that also has a classifieds listing for members only, they take things a step further by allowing the seller to either list an item for public view or only for other members, I've purchased a computer and several pieces of photographic equipment there and it's been a painless experience.


JohnE