Cyalume lightsticks

Cyalume lightsticks have a shelf-life and an expiration date. I think they are great for things like dropping into dark holes and throwing.
Does anyone know of a different product that does the same kind of thing, but has no expiration date?
I thought there was a batttery powered version.

Thanks Izzy, I'll look into that.

I found it. The Glo-Toob. Has anyone ever found out how rugged these are: HERE

There's something that looks similar called the glo-toob. It uses an LED and gets pretty high marks by the regulars on the candlepowerforums.com site.

The original battery driven caylume look alike was the Krill light. They used an electroluminesant film wrapped around the battery tube. Pretty neat looking, but I'm not sure they're made anymore.

Krill lights! Those are the ones I was thinking of: HERE

I tell you what the 5 minute super bright ones are just that SUPER bright.

I have a wide variety all past exp. date and all work.

Battery ones don't seem to be NEAR as bright.

Also, disposable is nice to toss into caves, or into water etc.

Is there a good place online to get a bunch super cheap?

You can find them online for .5 or so each if you buy in quantity.
I forget where, I got mine online 2 or so years ago.

Well worth the money.

My Krill Light never worked well. Bad batterie contacts...

Try looking at Lazer Stik. They're relatively inexpensive, pretty bright and last a long time before the batteries run out. The downside is that they use a less common battery.

REI and a number of on line dive shops sell them. They're pretty popular with divers.

Warren

Garrity Fun-Tastick LED Glo-lite is a battery powered stick.

http://www.garritylites.com/page77.html

They cost about $3.00 or so, but you can turn them on and off. Don't know about expiration dates, but since they use Lithium batteries they should last for a long time. Since you can turn them on and off, you can always check to see if they are working.

As some one else mentioned, the best time to buy glow sticks is in the clearance section of grocery stores, wally world, drug stores or other places that sell Halloween stuff the day after Halloween. I picked up some of the Garrity sticks cheap like that.

They work about like a light stick. They are sealed and supposed to be waterproof. They run on batteries, but since they are sealed up, they are intended to be disposable. Supposed to burn for 24 hours, but I have not checked that out. Since they turn on and off, you can use one several time if you are not dropping them down dark holes.

Last month I purchased a Coghlan's LED Micro lantern. I chose this over several other brands because of it's 360 degree bright lens and for the batteries that are the same as the EQ headlamp. I was not dissapointed. My guess is it is brighter than a Krill, a little larger in diameter but shorter. Also I found it at a good a good price of $6.58 online from CampingSurvival.com. It is good for 25 hours steady and 50 hours blinking. This is a much better choice than Chem Sticks which are almost $2.00 each and not near as bright and are much longer than the micro lantern. There is a YouTube demo of this light, if you want to check it out YouTube Micro Lantern. If you carry the EQ headlamp then this is a good choice for a small lantern. And again for the price I could afford to carry serveral of them instead of Chem Sticks and reuse them indefinately and at the cheaper price than a Krill I would not be too upset to lose one. I am very happy with this product and will buy a couple of more in the near future.

I guess in a genuine emergency, there might be no other choice.

But geez, you guys are killing me with this casual litterbug talk.

Pack it in, pack it out. Pretty, pretty please?

The luck of the draw, I guess. I've got a pair of krill lights that still work after maybe ten years of use at Burning Man.

Krill lights are still made:
http://www.kriana.com/pages/howtochoose.html
but you wouldn't want to throw them away.

Tossing cyalumes into caves and ponds seems not to be a 'leave no trace' event. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. You'd think we've got enough trash on the ground without throwing more into the caves.

WHERE did I mention that items were LEFT??? Just where.

Maybe it's me but I would rather get a non-battery powered device soaked in water, mud, dirt, and nasties than a battery powered one that could go out, get ruined, etc.

AND on the chance you forget it or "leave it behind" you are not out more than 75 cents.

I'm left trying to figure out what purpose this would serve. Whether chem, battery powered, or both, you're still leaving haz mats somewhere. Caves are fragile habitats and throwing crap in water is never a good idea either. It's a whole lot easier to avoid doing stuff than cleaning up later and hoping for the best.

Getting past that for a moment, I would NEVER recommend any sort of cave entry with lightsticks. It's a rescue waiting to happen.

...and not trying to hijack a thread, but...

In truth, I've never really understood the allure of lightsticks anyway. Flashlights are easier to carry, and MUCH easier to store. No worry about expirations, etc. Even having lights to give away isn't enough to consider lightsticks. For the price of lightsticks from China you could have squeeze lights from China (maybe even for less in qty). I haven't tested the el cheapo squeeze lights but believe they're better from a lifespan as well as a usable light perspective.

JMHO...YMMV



Fair enough. I didn't see this when I was in the process of making my reply. I just assumed if you're throwing something into a pond, you won't be getting it later. My bad.



This sort of takes me back to the beginning then. I don't even look at this from a cost perspective (other than the comparison above) but more of a disposable/reusable, and a better light perspective in addition to the materials/litter issue.

Krill is the bomb. I have a red 360* and an extreme green 180*. The red will scores of hours on 2 AA. The extreme about 50 hours on the same.

I have lots of chem lights but won't pay more than a buck for them. The only reliable spot I have found for that price is Walmart's Ozark brand, which is 2 for $2.

Hey, ToddW and all, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Sincere apologies if I misinterpreted anyone's comments.

Doug

All of the really good uses I have seen for chem lights have all been people using them to light themselves up so they will be seen.
(A little light shows up a long way away at night in the bush or on the water.)

I can see using them for emergency lighting for a car or crash kit too,with no batteries to worry about.

The idea of expiry date bothers me a bit, but is it possible to give any you are using as emergency lighting to the kids at Halloween and replace them at that time?

I purchased Princeton tec divelights that could be switched from regular to red and had the "wand" attachment if you needed to use it as a beacon or tank light.

They don't make the ones I have anymore, the closest is this-

http://www.princetontec.com/?q=node/89

I switched from cyalume to this after using up so many single use light sticks.

I have used chem lights that were way out of date, and the helicopter pilot only asked who had set up the LZ (civilian medevac on the highway). Wanted to know when I was in the air assault business in the past. Seems we had been in the same line of work in the past. He delivered soldiers, I delivered bullets. Notice he didn't complain about brightness????

No, it is actually quite impossible.

I'm not fully understanding your meaning. Are you saying that the past-expiry sticks were not as bright?

Attached to some paracord for easy non-litterbug retrieval.

Yeah, I sort of suspected that, thanks.

One of the big advantages to chemical light sticks has already been touched upon. They are disposable. While planning to never come back and clean up the inactive hulls can be considered littering, tossing out chemical light sticks to areas that need some extra light is a lot more frugal than tossing your Fenix flashlight, Krill lamp, Glo-Toob, or anything else that is battery powered. This is especially true seeing as how there are always situations where there is a chance that you may not be able to come back to get your expensive battery-powered light, you need to light multiple areas (how many Krill lamps do you have?), or you need to actually throw the chemical light stick where you want the light to be (how robust are your Krill lamps?). So, in actuality, chemical light sticks are more than just disposable; they are also robust and inexpensive to obtain multiples of.

Another major advantage to these is that they do not use batteries, i.e., they are intrinsically safe. Think about that when an earthquake hits at night, the power’s out, and you smell natural gas. Wanna light your Krill lamp, Glo-Toob, or even your Fenix up now? Are you sure the battery tube you are holding was ATEX rated?

The conclusion is pretty simple. Chemical light sticks are ubiquitous. They may not be the best option for every particular circumstance, but they definitely have their place. They are kind of like the space blankets of the lighting world, in my opinion.

Ok guys... if I have a few chem lights in my kit in my truck and I need to light up the road so people can see what's going on I can easily toss them on the road, string them up, or do whatever.

When I`m assisting the other persons/vehicle and I happen to forget to pick them up during all the commotion I won't die because I just lot 5xXX$ worth of goods.

And as far as lakes, caves and ponds... it's "FUN" to light up a pond at night with one attached to a fishing line or cord, and the same for caves... nice light for around camp or to mark corners, and occasionally you COULD forget one or two... and again not freak out about losing a high dollar item.

Maybe survival situation using one in water to attract fish (may be illegal in some spots) and you lose it... you didn't just lose your primary source of light (krill, flashlight, etc) for this task.

As I`m sure everyone is aware there are TONS of usages these things have where a normal light you just wouldn't want to use.

Lighting up helo landing area, a mini air strip, a save zone marking the trail, etc.

I received a battery operated chem light (not a Krill light-this was a gimmick thingy) that I have used on my S&R team several times. I usually turn it on, and hang it off my pack, so others can see me. Alternately, when I am racked out, I usually hang it above me so people know where I am. This actually serves two purposes; one, they an find me quickly if needed, two, vehicles will (hopefully) not run me over. Although, we dont normally nap in parking lots. But, hey, jst in case....

Think about it. Middle of the night, less than optimal weather. Civilian med-evac helicopter with two pilots. Aircraft commander took the time to get out, walk over and ask "who set up the LZ?".

Obviously, if the pilot of the med-evac took the time to come out and speak to me & thank me for setting the LZ, he had no issue with their brightness.

So how do you light up a highway for a helicopter?
Those things make a lot of wind and might blow the lights away.

You don't just leave them lying on the road, or do you?

No, don't leave anything "Just laying around".

There is a long "to do" list. Generally something left to those that have been trained.

I'm going the other way here. I've used glo-toobs, and was less than impressed. the website does a good job making them seem really luminescent, but mine looked just like what they were: a bunch of 5mm leds blinking in the distance. And kind of big/clunky for my 30# dog.

I've also had close to a dozen past-exp. date light sticks not work. I used to keep about 2 dozen in my car, in lieu of flares. Well, now I have one glo-toob (used to be 2) and 2 flares. Just more reliable, and still plenty bright.

Apropos of nothing whatsoever....
If one was in a military training environment, and was armed with a 5.56 NATO fed rifle firing blanks one could remove the blank adapter and insert one of these



in the barrel from the bore. When one pulls the trigger on the blank, the chem stick leaves the barrel looking all the world like a tracer in the night.


Scares the hell out of the folks that think there are only blanks being fired to suddenly see one tracer fly into the air.

I have to disagree on the use of chemlights for spelunking. I carried them when I was actively caving twenty years ago and found them quite reliable and useful. Considering that they have improved over this time, they are more consistent and last longer in storage, than they used to I think they have their uses.

My usual lighting plan was:
Carbide light with spare water, carbide and a spares kit. Strong light and a source of heat. One baby bottle of carbide and two of water gives you, in very rough terms, perhaps 36 hours of light. Less if run wide open. Generally too bright for anything but huge caverns. More if kept to a pinpoint.

One 2-C flashlight with an under-driven incandescent bulb to extend the run time, a 3v light using a 4.5v bulb and at least one set of spare batteries and bulb. Run time was about four hours per set of batteries. Before LED lights this was state of the art.

2- votive candles and several ways to light them. Heat and light. Run time roughly 6 hours per candle. Less run time, and much harder to keep lit, if there was a wind.

Three to seven milspec 12 hour green chemlights. These were used blind diving wet sumps, route markers in same or across open spots, placed in or near important steps or hand holds, used to mark drop offs and other hazards.

They were also quite handy as a backup. Coming out of a low spot or sump we were never quite sure the electric lights would work after being dunked. So it was common for the first through to activate a chemlight. This also provided a nice luminous beacon, and sometimes confirmation they made it to the other side, for the next one through. It also provided a reliable area light to get warmed up, dry out your carbide lamp and to test and work on the electric lights. You always wanted to know what you had left to work with before pushing on deeper and keep at least two-thirds of your resources for the return trip.

Chemlights are no more subject to failure or exhaustion than any other light. I wouldn't go spelunking with only chemlights. They don't provide any warmth. But then again I wouldn't go with just a flashlight or just a carbide light. there is safety in diversity and redundancy. In terms of weight, bulk and burn time they were more of a bargain than any flashlight. Even today, with krill lights and LED flashlights, they hold their own quite well. They have their strengths and weaknesses. As with everything else you have to play to their strengths and work around their weaknesses.

As long as they were rotated and used while fresh they worked fine. They were sometimes the only reliable light source. Even expensive dive lights often became unreliable after a few trips. They were also heavy and bulky for the light provided.

Experienced cavers practiced the practical skills of being able to dry out and relight a carbide headlamp by feel after it was dunked. I could completely disassemble, dewater, repair and replace all parts my flashlight by touch. We practiced getting candles lit while cold and wet and in complete darkness. But after we started using chemlights, other than practice and showing off, we never had any call to have to do it.

Cracking a chemlight was quick, easy and cost effective. It also helped calm inexperienced spelunkers. Being cold, wet, in a confined space that is completely dark causes some people to freak out. Go figure.

My favorite light for caving and terrain search is still a good carbide headlamp mounted on a climbing helmet. Loads of bright white light in a long running, fuel efficient, compact unit. A subject for another day.

> WHERE did I mention that items were LEFT??? Just where.

I read this comment:
> Also, disposable is nice to toss into caves, or into water etc.

Where did I read that you went and got them after you tossed the disposable lightsticks into caves, into water, etc.?

Well, the gas issue I hadn't considered and come to think of it...I may have to reevaluate.

On the caving side, I remember talking to old-time cavers that loved kerosene lights. Mammoth Cave gets a lot of folks on their lantern tours. Sure, it is romantic...but not practical. That's the same way I now see carbide and for the life of me at this point in time can't see a purpose for lightsticks in caves. Light can and be your life in a cave. I can carry stenlight, batteries, backup headlamp and batteries, and two more light sources...and batteries for far less weight and bulk then bottles, carbide, etc. And I'll get far more hours of light.

I do have friends that LOVE their carbide. I never did like the stuff. I also have friends who don't like LEDs over incandescent because they have lived for so long loving the yellow or orange glow that white light looks weird to them.

We're all different, and it's nice to see discussion from all viewpoints, so please don't take this as argument...it isn't meant that way.

(Art and Yeti)
I have never had to use carbide and getting the carbide itself is a problem.
The way the water drip to generate the gas was regulated seemed a little fiddley to me too, but that is the nature of the lamp.

Yet consider that something which lasted so long as the standard hatlamp for underground miners obviously has some good points.
Especially since it was only replaced when light weight rechargeable 12 volt battery packs able to last 12 hours became available.

I expect the 12 volt lamps used underground by miners now will all be replaced by led versions soon too.

Chemical light sticks would never stand up well enough in a mine to be useful. They would all be broken and glowing less than 100 feet inside the portal.
If it wasn't for the fragility of them I could see them being used by miners as backup lights instead of Zippo lighters.

I can also see Art's uses for them in sport caving as trail and hazard markers very well.
I suppose if you wanted to light a sump or check it for how strong of a current it had they would be nice there too.

People tend to choose their opinions based on their experiences and I certainly would't reject either of these opinions without at least giving them some consideration.

I said earlier, all of the really good uses I had seen for chemlights were people lighting themselves up so they would be seen.
Then
Desperado told us about using them for lighting a helicopter landing zone, and after I thought about it I realized we do that in the northern mines with permanent tritium powered lights.

Art told us about using them as hazard markers underground.
Other people added other uses too.

I have learned a bit on this thread, and as Yeti says, it is nice to see the discussion coming from different viewpoints on it.

Our team uses chemical light sticks at night to check for “strainers” under bridges, etc. and to get an estimate of how fast the water is moving. We will put one in an empty soda bottle, close the lid and throw it into the water.

No, we do not recover the soda bottle and light stick. Trust me, during a flood a few soda bottles/light sticks are not much of an issue with all kinds of stuff coming down the waterway.

We also tape them to our helmets with different colors for river right or river left operations.

I have both a Krill light and Glow-Toob attached to my PFD and/or dry suit.

Pete

"strainers"?

I forgot to mention that to keep the chemlights from being crushed, they really aren't that fragile but it is possible to accidentally activate one if you land a knee square on it. For protection we would cut a length of 1-1/2" PVC SCH-40 pipe long enough to hold the chemlight and use two end caps to close the ends. Trick was to file a groove into the removable cap so you can tell by feel which comes off. The other one was usually glued. To make the removable cap easier to take off without tools we used sandpaper or a file on the opening end to taper it a bit so it didn't stick. The tapering goes faster on a lathe but it can be done by hand. You want a slip fit that is firm and still as water tight as possible. A spritz of silicone spray helps sometimes.

Everyone had a slightly different version. One friend used the threaded screw-cap clean-out plug type fitting. A few would drill a small hole in each end, or the cap and side, and string a piece of accessory cord between them so the cap couldn't be lost. A dab of epoxy around the line helped keep the container watertight.

The 1-1/2" pipe held five or six 6" chemlights depending on who makes them and how much excess foil wrapper they use. It is possible to use the thinner DWV pipe and it gives you more room inside and it is lighter. But it isn't as tough. Works okay in shorter lengths where the end caps are close enough together to help support the diameter.

Any suggestions on what colors to carry?

I.E. what colors are generally used to signal certain things...

We usually went with what we had. I do remember there was one (either green or red) that didn't show up well or at all on NVG's. There are IR chem sticks that show great on NVG's but are invisible to the naked eye. Cannot see needing those in the civilian world though. Wouldn't even know where to get them.

I also like keeping one or two of the ultra bright 5 min. sticks handy. Usually when I would set an LZ, I would use one of those into the wind. Don't use them near NVG's though.

Strainers are basically bushes or 'something' that will let water flow through but 'catch' anything of larger size. If you're caught in one, the waters current will hold you in place. They're damn near impossible to get out of. Big time drowning hazard!

I live in east Pennsylvania - "the coal regions." I can say for a fact if you're caught in a coal mine with anything that makes a spark, be it matches, lighter, or anything else, you will get your arse beaten to a pulp. Too many people have died because some fool decided to have a cigarette off in a hidden corner of the mine, only to find a methane pocket. Look at any professional mine and you'll see a line of cigarette packs and lighters sitting just outside the door to the elevator that takes the miner's down to the mine. If you're caught with one, you'll suffer what's know in the service as a "blanket party." There's a difference between a mine and a cave!

Sorry Snoman. I was never in a coal mine.

Hard rock, narrow vein gold, silver, barites, nickle, salt etc.
Jackleg and stoper, jumbo and a bit of longhole.
I went through being a nipper, timberman, trucker, miner, raise miner.
The first mine was Port Radium (Echo Bay) on the Great Bear lake from 1978 to 1979.
The last time I was in a mine was for 2 years from 1995-1997.

From there I was back to construction (formwork) for 4 years on the Toronto subway system, and from there as a scaffolder to the Tarsands in Alberta (Syncrude, Suncor...) where they strip mine oil.

Almost my entire working life has been split between mining and carpentry on major projects.

We were always required to have a sharp knife, a watch and a good lighter underground.

Zippos were counted as good lighters. A bic could not be trusted to light once the wheel got wet and they had a nasty habit of going empty in the pocket.

"Powder is the ultimate power tool."

If you want to ask a question about something I said you are more than welcome to ask.

scafool, I have no questions for you but rather a comment.

Just reading about your mining life brought back a lot of good memories.

I went to a school with an old mining history, and one of the neat things about mining schools is that they have experimental mines...in this case, the Waldo. (Actually, the Waldo was the Waldo adit, the mine itself the Graphic...but it's always been the Waldo). The Waldo adit was punched in 1908, in production until the mid-fifties, and leased to the school after that. Officially closed about 2002.

18 levels, but flooded up to the ninth (also the adit), six miles left of accessible tunnel, and no power - so there were ladders made from timbers next to the winzes.

The mining engineering kids pretty much had the run of the place...we had the old mine maps and would spend a lot of days and nights pushing the old drifts, re-surveying, and "accurazing" the maps. We'd even have races to get the best times to and through the escapeways (beer handicap optional). I was with a local subterranean SAR group and we did a bit of training there. We would set up and run exercises for the state mine rescue teams as well.

I was never a blaster (and the mine wouldn't have handled vibration very well) but we did have those types around. I always studied the explosions, not the explosives. Fun stuff, nonetheless.

Hard rock underground, there's nothing like it. Thank you for bringing all that back.

I envy you and your experiences. Except for the jacklegging.

Oh, and we used cyalumes quite a bit for marking gear - rope bags, stokes, jackets, whatever - that would get staged or otherwise left behind.

Yeah I hear you, some good memories, some not so good, and some that I try not to remember.
When I was young going underground was all part of the great adventure.
It is a different world down there.
Ah well. I am brassed out for good now.

The two jobs I hated the most were mucking out the sumps and slushing a drift, but I loved taking a round and cycling. So long as our cross did the same we were in the top bonus.
I really hated seeing a bootlegged face or a frozen face with burned ground.

The word "loose" still has a different meaning for me too.
I have seen pieces of loose the size of railway cars. Kind of hard to scale with a bar when it is that bad.
The 8 foot rockbolts just helped hold it together after it fell out of the back.

I love it when I see a mine shown in a movie and they are always so nice and and there is no water flowing down to the sumps or spraying from the face.

You were at a mining school so it was different for you guys to be in the old drifts, and manways, but I still shudder when I think of people entering old workings.
It is so easy for them to fall down a winze or a raise, get trapped by loose or run into a bit of bad air.

Now I will stop and quit hijacking the thread again.

I find it interesting you were using the Chemlights for marking gear.

Hmmm. No idea. Maybe it's because of the coal thing. I understand coal and methane are likely to be found together.
Still, it's a dangerous, if not romantic way to make a living. My Grandpop was a coal miner since he was nine years old, as were most of the men from the town he was born in. He had some stories to tell! I know he loved it, but I also remember him saying no son of his was going to mine coal for a living. After 25 years of mining coal, he moved his family a few miles south and spent the rest of his life working for the railroad. He's been gone almost 30 years and I still think of how tough these men had it. I'm almost embarrassed by how easy I've got it today. I think "pop-pop" is due for another bouquet of flowers on his grave.

- Dave

Snoman;
Coal mines are extra dangerous, you could not be more right about that.
Dangerous even to the point that they made special bronze hammers and wrenches for them to prevent sparking.
There is a reason Davy Lamps were invented and why Mine Rescue often wear a pin representing one.

Different mines are different, but they are all dirty, wet, cold and very dangerous places to work.

When you do visit your grandfather's grave you be sure to carry a blessing for him from me too.

+10 to that. My grandfather as well. Know I'm giving my regards to your grandfather when you visit.

Coming from a coal area myself (Wilkes-Barre) I fully understand. Luckily my family never worked the mines, but God bless those that did. Not an easy job, that's for sure. Talk about dirty and dangerous. And when they used mules/donkeys to pull the carts, those animals were valued more than the miners.

Thanks for the kind words guys!