Ice water self-extraction

Anybody have some good ideas for extracting yourself from water onto an ice shelf along shore?

I'm an avid year-round canoer/kayaker and some like-minded friends who live up north have recently decided that they need to start carrying two home-made "ice picks", each consisting of a stout nail or two fixed into a 2-3 foot board. The theory is that if they capsize on a river where both banks are lined with ice shelves, they can use the boards to pull themselves out of the river onto the ice.

I don't have any experience with ice extraction, but I wonder if that's not overkill. The winter paddler's survival kit is already pretty bulky as it is, so I don't see adding to it unnecessarily. Also, I'm afraid many people would tend to forget to find and untie the ice picks before swimming to shore in the confusion of a capsize in icy water.

We all generally carry some type of rescue knife attached to our PFDs anyway - would a knife in hand give you enough purchase to pull yourself out of the ice soon after you went in? How about 2 knives, one in each hand? Is there any other compact gear that could be routinely carried in a PFD pocket to help pull yourself out of the water onto an ice shelf?

A knife may be difficult to grasp if you are wearing paddling gloves and would probably cut you when trying to pull ourself out.

Take a look at these ice picks:

http://www.nordicskater.com/safety.html

around here ice fisherman use short lenghts of broom stick with a sharpened nail on the end and a eyelet on top that a cord is tied around..the cord go's around the back of you neck--outside your jacket and the stick bits with corks on the nail go's into the pockets--then the same thing..drive the gizmos into the ice and pull your self out...these are common and a plastic version can be bought at sports shops--

Great thread guys. Thanks for the tips!

Up in Ontario, Canada, where we go snowmobiling over frozen lakes, something like this this is popular

Seems much lighter than what you are talking about.

Knives don't stick into ice well.
You are also looking at the problem of getting them out and the risk of cutting your hand open when you attempt to stab them through the ice.

Better is a couple of good sized pieces of dowel.
About as big around as a broom or shovel handle and long enough to fit your hand well, about five inches long is good.
You drill a hole into the end length ways and put a hard nail into them.
It only needs to poke out about an inch or so, maybe an inch and a half, if it is too long it will just bend or break.
The hole you pre-drill for the nail is just to prevent splitting the dowel when you drive the nail into it.
If the hole is bigger than the nail you can epoxy the nail into it too.
Most people cut the nail head off and sharpen them a bit, they don't have to be super needle sharp though.

To prevent losing them drill another crosswise hole in the other end. Then run a string through your sleeves and across your shoulder just like you were going to tie mitts on and tie the ice picks to it.
You can likely tuck them just inside the cuffs of your sleeves while paddling, but make sure they stay easy to get out of your sleeves. (maybe leave enough string hanging out to grab.)

You might be able to tie them to a vest.
They are not very bulky.
Really just two round sticks about 4 or 5 inches long with short nails sticking out one end of them.
The main thing is to keep them easy to reach.

The idea is to hold them in your fist and slam them into the ice like a hammer blow.
They should give you enough of a grip to pull yourself out onto the ice and slide yourself towards shore like a seal does, until the ice is thick enough to crawl on and then to walk on.

(Don't hurry to stand up on the ice. Wiggling and crawling is better than falling through thin ice. It would be very bad to fall through the ice after getting out once)

If the ice is really thin at the edge you might end up breaking it off until you get to where it is thick enough to hold the nail when you punch it through the ice.

(to bad this is unlikely to practiced before you really need to do it. If you can get close to thin ice safely practice punching the nails through it. You will find out how thick it has to be to hold a nail)

I just found a video that might help explain it a bit more.

self rescue

The primary thing is to remember to swim towards the shore as you are getting out of the water. Stay flat and continue to belly crawl until you are well clear of the hole. One of the other threads mentioned Les Stroud. He did an episode on this exact topic. The episode was a controlled experiment. He was working with an expert in this area. It was a very good episode. When he fell in the water you could see actual, no kidding panic in his eyes. Look for it somewhere. Well worth watching. BTW, he didn't use ice picks.

I spend a lot of time on the ice working and playing each winter.

I have extracted myself after falling through the ice a few times, both in training and for real.

Ice picks make it much easier to get out of the hole onto solid ice. I carry a commercial set of quick-release ones around my neck whenever I am snowmobiling across the ice. Be sure to get the picks that float (some don't) and that have long points (about 2 inches) as the short tipped ones do not dig into punky ice well.

I often see sledders with the picks mounted on their snowmobile, but I wear mine so I know that when I fall through they will be with me.

When we were kids we used to carry large spike nails in out pockets to do the same task.

I also keep a rope throw-bag around the handle-bars of my snowmobile to rescue other people when they go through the ice.

Mike.

I'm pretty sure there are a couple old threads on the subject... here is a great YouTube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysnKtuUTt8k

Steve

took a swim here one very cold winter day a few years ago.


this photo was taken weeks later after it "warmed" up and there was some water on the ice shelf.this is the Mississippi River at South Minneapolis not far from from home where there is a free run dog park.while our back was turned our dog went out on the ice...you can see lots of dog prints around the edge. she was new to us from a dog rescue group and wanted to explore everything..we turned to see her in the water up to her neck and struggleing to get back up on the shelf.i knew if we lost that dog my wife would be heart broken.i also knew that the ice was over a shallow--hip deep--sandbar.sooooo---
i belly flopped out on the ice and pushed off. i could not grab her collar so i busted the ice with my fist so she could swim
too me..at that point the ice around me busted and i ended up on a surfboard of ice..well between her struggeling and swimming and me grabing and pulling we got to a point where i was only about six feet from shore so i stood up in hip deep water and we both floundered to shore--with my wife calling and shouting for the dog to come to her...someone ran up and offered to call 911 but i thought it would be best to make a fast walk back to the car for the five minute drive home..
i had short felt lined boots,jeans with snowboarder pants over them..flannel shirt,poly fluff pull over,down vest and a 60/40 parka..the temps were around zero..i walked fast with my heart pounding and by the time i got to the car 20 minutes later the jacket was froze stiff. i had to use my wifes mitts because mine were wet and froze in minutes..the dog had ice over its fur..at home we both got in a hot shower--the dog just lay in the tub while i pulled off the wet clothes under the shower..i spent alot of time in there warming up and had a long nap. if this had taken place anywhere else i would of had a big problem..in a more remote place a fast big fire would have been my only chance.so if you think about self rescue thats only half the problem.you better have a way to make lots of heat--very fast--

I'm having a hard time picturing exactly what this homemade set up looks like and how it would be used. Could you explain that a bit? Would the board be held on one end and stretched out or would it be held "sideways" along the lip of the ice, perhaps spreading out your weight along the edge? And where would the nail be along this board?

A knife seems less than ideal for this particular purpose, particularly if it's a folder. Considering the diminished dexterity from the cold water and having gloves on plus the force a person would be trying to exert on that knife to pull themselves out, seems very easy to cut up your hand. Of course, you may not feel it at all at the time, but still...

Didn't Bear do a similar experiment one time? Or was that the Les Stroud episode that someone else mentioned? One thing I remember that I had never thought of was that if you're having a lot of trouble getting onto the ice, one last ditch thing to do is splash some water onto the ice and let your arms freeze to the ice. That way, if you pass out from hypothermia, your head is still above the water. Kind of morbid to think about, but an interesting tactic.

I agree...I cannot picture this at all. It would be very cumbersome swinging 2-3 foot boards around while in the water and with bulky winter clothes on. I have only seen the small handpicks that were mentioned in another post.

If you make picks out of broomstick and nails a few notes on their construction:

The portion of the nails sticking out needn't be very long. Too long and they are more difficult to use. About 3/4", plus or minus a bit, is plenty.

Whatever portion is outside the wood you need about twice that inside the wood. It won't do to have the nail pull or break out sideways. Pre-drilling the holes for the nails is good because it makes placement more exact and easier, can help reduce splitting. The hole should be roughly one-third the nail diameter in softwood and two-thirds in hardwood. Small barbs pinched into the steel near the non-working end with dykes are an option that will help keep the nail in place.

The portion of the wood rod holding the nail should be firmly wrapped to reinforce the wood and prevent splitting. Remember your hauling your body weight and waterlogged clothing out on a thin bit of steel shoved into the end grain of the wood. Wood that is going to want to split at the worse possible moment. Wire or stout fishing line are good.

Self recovery picks are a good, simple and quick woodworking project. With a few basic skills and a couple of hand tools it is pretty easy to produce a very workmanlike pair in about an hour. Less per unit if you produce them three or four pairs at a time. It is a nice evening project that you can work on with spouse or kids. But remember that those picks your building are life saving devices. So build them like your life depends on them.

As an aside they also have a small roll in self-defense. A friend of a friend's daughter was accosted and only got away from the attacker when she pulled out her pick and drove it into the back of the man's hand several times. Police were able to arrest him when he showed up at the ER. They made the case on that but a detective noted that his blood was also on the nail so DNA evidence was an option.

As I pictured the suggestion, the resulting tool would be an elongated L-shape with the board forming the long part and the spike or nail forming the short part, except that the nail would not be set in the extreme end of the board, but rather an inch or two away from the end. The end would then be wrapped or treated some way to strengthen the spike and keep it from pulling out under stress. A piece of plastic or minicel foam would be a sacrificial cap for the sharp point of the spike, and a line would be attached by which two such tools would be secured to the boat.

After reading the replies above, I think I personally would prefer the “dowel-type” or screwdriver-shaped implement that scafool tells how to make, and that seems to be represented by the ebay link. In fact, being a big fan of multi-use tools, I think it’d be cool to have actual screwdrivers with long handles and short blades – say 6-inch handles and 3 inch long, 1/4-in-diam blades, one Phillips and one regular. I especially like the idea of keeping them in your sleeves, as one of my objections to the other type was the extra time required to get them after capsize and before swimming to shore.

One thing I’m not clear on is what type of ice is possible at the point you are trying to climb out. Based on a video I saw and one poster’s comment above about “punk ice”, it seems possible that the ice within reach could be too rotten to hold the small blade. In that case, the L-shaped tool would give you a few feet extra reach, which might be a decisive advantage.

These I am aware and have seen plenty of times. The OP's suggestions were to use boards 2-3' long and that was where my question was directed to.

Wow. Great thread.

Okay, so it seems like the screwdriver-shaped ice pick worn inside the sleeve is the way to go, for the properly prepared. If I may, let me expand my question a little - what if you don’t have the ice picks, for whatever reason (lost them, forgot them, had them confiscated on the airline flight to Alaska and after landing all the stores were sold out), but otherwise you’re properly prepared. You capsize in a river with ice shelves along both banks, and you find yourself unable to pull yourself up out of the water. Is there any way to make use of your other gear to effect a rescue?

Here’s your gear list:
- You’re wearing a dry suit with neoprene cap
- your boat is a 15-foot long canoe that weighs 50 pounds empty (right now it is swamped after the capsize, and all the following gear is tied to it or attached in some way)
- two 9-foot long carbon-graphite kayak (double-bladed) paddles (main and backup)
- 5-foot wood or plastic spare canoe paddle (single blade)
- 50-foot tow rope attached to the boat
- rescue rope with “throw bag” (rope coiled inside a weighed container, designed to be thrown up to 30-40 feet and to pay out rope behind it)
- two large dry bags filled with camping gear and clothes
- a basic first aid/rescue bag tied to canoe seat.

Surely with all that junk at hand there must be half a dozen ways to rescue yourself. What’s the best way? (Feel free to hypothecate different common circumstances, such as shallow water, wooded banks, etc., but you also need to deal with the cases where these features do not exist.)

It was shown on "Survive Alaska" I think.....

Stop long enough to calm down and control breathing.
Use your legs to kick and provide lift and propulsion.
Use your arms to guide/push up and pull a little onto the ice.

I have ZERO practical experience with this other than falling into a frozen pool in the shallow end. That was more than enough for me.

Here's a more information on the Canadian professor that specializes in hypothermia/falling through ice.

There is also a video on falling through the ice on a snow mobile, its interesting because he compares the different type of coats you can wear and how they affect your flotation (one absorbs like 50 lbs of water if I remember).

Hi again Bilojax.

With the dry suit and other gear I would get back into the canoe and bail it out.
Then if you want onto the ice just sit in the stern, pull your gear to you so your bow rides high and run the canoe up onto the ice.

Have you ever heard of the canoe races they run across the St Lawrence river during the winter?

http://race.fit2paddle.com/C2047168441/E20070131131733/index.html

http://www.lightmediation.com/blog/podcast/september/Quebec_Winter_Canoe_Race_365.pdf

edit
One danger with falling through the ice or approaching it from the water is getting carried under the ice by the current.

It might make sense to tie yourself to the canoe just in case, but that depends very much on the situation.

edot 2:
One river I used to go on would build up walls on the edge of the ice pans and ledges. If you were to fall in along that stretch of the river you might be trying to climb out over ice faces 3 feet or more high, and the water was fast.

Yet one more point that is just a little bit to the side of the thread. More related to ice travel than winter canoeing.

When going ice fishing we used to carry a long pole with an ice chisel on one end and a loop of light rope on the other end.
I seldom see these any more.
I see ice augers instead, often gas powered.

The ice chisel was for more than just chopping holes in the ice.
Carried under the arm it would catch you if you fell through.
If somebody else fell it gave you had something to reach and drag them out with.
It let you test the ice in front of you.

Wow, those ice-racing pictures are awesome. Further googling produces other fascinating details – thanks for the heads-up.






Well, normally you would not be able to reenter the canoe and bail it out, even with the ice shelf to hang on to.

Also, I would think there would be something of an urgency to get on shore, get a fire started and pitch camp. By postulating a drysuit, I don’t mean to imply a 33-degree survival suit. The typical paddler’s drysuit will only delay hypothermia in water this cold, not prevent it.

Here are the kinds of things I was thinking.

1. If there are woods nearby or even a tangled boulder pile, tie the free end of the 50-foot tow rope to one of the kayak paddles. Throw the paddle someplace where it is likely to become tangled when retrieved, and then pull back on the rope until it catches. Push the canoe and other gear up onto the ice so you can retrieve it from shore, and then pull yourself out with the help of the tow rope.

2. If the water next to the ice shelf is fairly shallow, say 4 feet, use the canoe as structure to climb. Detach all the gear from the canoe and push it up on the ice, where it can be retrieved from shore and isn’t in danger if you break more ice getting out. Lift one end of the canoe out of the water, planting the other end firmly on the bottom near the ice shelf, and angle the canoe a little toward the ice and shore. Reach up and grasp the gunnels or thwarts at about head level, and note other handholds above that point. Then rapidly pull yourself up the thwarts and gunnels with your hands until you get as much of your body as possible out of the water, and then throw yourself backwards onto the ice.

3. If a stump or rock or other suitable protuberance lies within 10-15 feet, detach all gear and push the empty canoe up onto the ice. Maneuver it so it is next to the protuberace and then flip it, so the open end of the canoe catches the protuberance. Then pull yourself out of the water by pulling hand over hand on the canoe.

4. As a last resort, if none of the “if” conditions above are true, push the loaded canoe up onto the ice next to where you want to get out. If the air temp is extremely cold, it might be helpful to let it sit there for 30-60 seconds so the slick, liquid path it followed will freeze a little bit, although you can’t wait long. Then make your usual “surge” effort to get out of the water on your own, kicking your feet and trying to push your body onto the ice, only at the last moment before losing momentum, reach over and pull hard on the canoe for an extra assist. If you’re lucky, this little bit extra might be enough to get you securely up onto the ice.

There are commercial versions of the ice pick that you hang around your neck available, I have a pair that were pretty inexpensive from Cabela's, but, they are a little extra insurance when ice fishing. These are made by South Bend, here's a promo picture: