Fenix TK10 Light - Chrstmas Gift to Myself

Though I much prefer using headlamps, I tend to carry a flashlight along with me as a backup, and tend to use them a lot around the house, so ....

I finally caved in a bought a Fenix TK10 LED light. I really like the size and the brightness is stunning. I'll probably use the lower setting most to conserve power, but its nice to have the high power when I need to see distance.



Here is a good review:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2408701

Ken K.

I've been so thoroughly impressed with my P2D Q5 that I've been very tempted to put a TK11 R2 on order.

Yup, it is a great light!

Very nice flashlight, especially in black color.

I just ordered a Fenix P3D, which uses the same LED with a different body and circuitry. So far I'm impressed with the quality, and the combination of brightness and long runtimes is great, and ideal for surival use. I also really like that the light and several sets of spare batteries are very light. For years I really wanted a Sure-fire, but I realized with Fenix you get an even better light for a fraction of the price.

FYI, you can get CR123 batteries for $1 each at batteryjunction.com . Plus you can order them in pairs(or triples) shrink wraped as a stack, to make organization and reloading quicker.

What I am really after is something of that level of ruggedness but taking two AA cells. Any suggestions?

Actually I DID purchase the TK10 and several CR123 pairs from batteryjunction.com. The shrink-wrapping of the CR123 is a pretty cool idea.

One of the things I like about the TK10 is that the rear switch is simply an on-off button switch (you can hold in in lightly to temporarily turn it on too). I can rotate the rear of the light a bit to prevent the switch from accidently turning on in a bag/pack. The selection of high vs. low light level is done by rotating the front of the light (the capsule holding the LED).

We use a single CR123 Fenix P1B attached to our barn key - along with a Storm whistle - so that we have a tough & bright light when out in the barn (used to look for horses, barn cats, and scarey monsters hiding in the dark). The P1B is turned on/off by rotating the front of the light. The problem is that the same rotating switch is used to cycle through medium-high-low-flash-SOS settings, which is kind of a pain. Its also hard to do one-handed.

BTW, the Fenix P1B has been uber tough, goignon its second year on a VERY abused keychain. We've previously gone through several single battery Maglites that each fell apart. The P1B's paint is pretty scratched & chipped, but it still works as well as the first day we got it. I'm counting on the TK10 to be just as tough.

Ken

You might look at the Fenix LD20 or TK20.

My 'best' flashlight is a Streamlight 4AA. I am very impressed with what it can do in terms of throw and spill, but what I find universally true with the higher end LED lights is that you pay for performance with battery life.

I get, at best, 4 hours of max light before it kicks itself down to 'normal' output which is fine for most things, but a far cry from it's initial output.

That is one of the reasons I chose the 4AA, it takes 4 AA batteries and rechargables are easy to come by. I have looked at the other lights with less common batteries and those batteries cost an arm and a leg. CR123 batteries where I am at cost (much) more for disposables than Alkaline rechargeables.

If you're talking about the Streamlight ProPolymer 4AA lights I'll agree wholeheartedly. Very bright lights. We have those in our trucks. Unfortunately they can't take lithium batteries (manufacturer says not to use them).

Using the following information:
$/hr = Battery$ x BatteryCount / LifeinHrs

Fenix TK10, High 225 lux: 1.5 hrs, 2 CR123 ==> $1.33/hr
Fenix TK10, Low 60 lux: 10 hrs, 2 CR123 ==> $0.20/hr
P-Tech EOS, High 185 lux: 60 hrs, 3 AAA ==> $0.65/hr
P-Tech EOS, Medium ?? lux: 60 hrs, 3 AAA ==> $0.14/hr
P-Tech EOS, Low 18.5 lux: 60 hrs, 3 AAA ==> $0.03/hr
SL ProPoly 4AA 40 lux: 4 hrs, 4 AA ==> $0.43/hr

So long as I don't run all the time at the TK10's high level - which I don't plan to do - the CR123's are pretty cost effective.

The $ per hour is based upon the bulk cost of batteries at batteryjunction.com, excluding shipping:
Duracell Coppertop AA Alkaline: $0.43 each
Duracell Coppertop AAA Alkaline: $0.43 each
Titanium Innovations CR123 Lithium: $1.00 each

I hope its warmer where you all are - the wind chill here was -24F here this morning.

Ken K

When I am looking for flashlight I consider only AA/AAA flashlights too. I am waiting for Novatac to release their new 2 x AA flashlight (this December?) so maybe it will be my choice in not so distant future. Or something from Fenix.

NovaTac Classic 2 x AA

I'm a flashlight n00b, but how does the Novatac compare to the Fenix lights (i.e. quality, etc).

I am sorry Kris, I cannot compare those two brands. I am not expert on flashlights either nor hard core flashlight enthusiast an/or collector. I just try to do some research, buy something of high quality what I like and gets the job done and then I am done with it for quite a long time. I regard flashlights as tools not as toys.

However from what I have read NovaTac should be very high quality brand maybe even amongst the high-end (I believe the flashlights are manufactured in the USA). Fenix seems to be very good too - my impression is that their electronic they put in their lights is one of the most efficient out there. But I haven´t done any tests - I know this rather from what I have read.

Raptor,

Thanks!

Kris

No problem, Kris.

It's worth looking at the Nitecore range. I have a PD10 which takes a single AA, which I'm pleased with. The brightness is continuously variable from around 2 lumens up to around 130, with runtimes of 55 hours or 1 hour respectively. It has a piston switch which can be used as a twisty, a clicky or momentary on. It runs on any kind of AA, including rechargeable, lithium, and plain old alkaline. I normally use Eneloop low-self-discharge, and that's what I used for the runtimes I cited.

It's small enough for every day carry, which I do. They also have a 2 AA version which is bigger, and rated at 180 lumens, but I've not tried it myself. The build quality is good, apart from an early batch. It's water-proof.

It's not perfect. Some people can hear a whine from the step-up circuitry; I can hear it on mine if I hold it close to my ear on full brightness, but I can't hear it normally. Younger people may find it worse. I don't think it's an issue with 2 AA because that's starting from a higher voltage. In any case, it's not really a tactical light - no strobes or whatever. The UI is pretty simple if you use it as a single-level light, but could be improved. (I'd rather it had 5 or 6 discrete levels instead of being continuously variable, for example.) The lanyard it comes with is a bit bulky - I took the clip off it and attached it to a lanyard I made myself from paracord inner thread, which I keep in my wallet.

Overall it's a very good light. I'd considered the Fenix lights and rejected them because their dimmest setting isn't very dim. The Nitecore's dim is just enough for reading in bed, or for navigating the house with dark-adapted eyes. The Fenix has a more efficient driver, but because it can't go so low its maximum battery life is shorter. I'd rather have dim, partly because it's useful in its own right and partly because in extremis I want the long battery life. I want bright as well, of course - 130 lumens is brighter than the very expensive, and physically large 2x132 Surefire U2 I bought a couple of years ago.

Running on a single AA is great, too. An hour on bright with rechargeable makes it practical and economical for walking the dog etc. 55 hours on dim makes it a good emergency light if you get trapped in a cave. Lithiums are expensive but have better performance, especially in the cold. I've taken to caching single lithiums in odd places because they are relatively small. And of course you can raid other equipment for alkalines if you have to.

I think this shows how technology has improved in the last two years.

I bought from 4sevens.

I was going to suggest a NWS header on this tread for that very reason. Can't let the boss catch me staring at one page for too long.

Hi Ken,

I have been carrying a Fenix TK11 (only because the CAN. supplier had no TK10's in-stock) for about 6 months now and have been very impressed with it. I have showed it to a lot of co-workers and they are amazed at the power from such a small light.

Mike

I have no experience with these batteries, but do note that they are made in China. See: www.equipped.org/blog/?p=42

Are these better? Maybe, but given the potential issues, I'll stick with U.S. or Japanese brand name lithiums myself.

Ahhh ... point taken. Thanks Doug. I'd forgetten about that article.

New calculations using Sure Fire batteries at $12 for 12 ($1.75 each):

Fenix TK10, High 225 lux: 1.5 hrs, 2 CR123 ==> $2.33/hr
Fenix TK10, Low 60 lux: 10 hrs, 2 CR123 ==> $0.35/hr
P-Tech EOS, High 185 lux: 60 hrs, 3 AAA ==> $0.65/hr
P-Tech EOS, Medium ?? lux: 60 hrs, 3 AAA ==> $0.14/hr
P-Tech EOS, Low 18.5 lux: 60 hrs, 3 AAA ==> $0.03/hr
SL ProPoly 4AA 40 lux: 4 hrs, 4 AA ==> $0.43/hr

The CR123's still reasonably cost effective ... so long as I limit the high power usage. Plus I think they provide a much better flashlight form (length & width of tube).

Ken K.

Does anyone have experience with the SureFire G2 Nitrolon in LED? We have 6 that are incandescent, and I would like to change them to SureFire's new LED replacement lamp to improve battery life.

I haven't seen rechargable CR123. Are they around and I've just missed them?

Primary Lithiums are excellent but they are expensive. I have had good results using Soshine RCR123s 3.7V rechargables.



http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13811 (these are even cheaper than any primary CR123s available for retail in the majority of retail outlets in the UK)

In the UK a single CR123A can cost up to $8 each from well known supermarket outlets. I do keep a small supply of primary CR123A (around a dozen or so) for their long term storage ability but now mainly use rechargeable cells instead for everyday use.

Fenix T1, High 225 lux: 1.0 hrs, 2 Soshine RCR123 ==> $0.04/hr (assuming 200 recharges)

Ha, I guess that answers my question, doesn't it.

I got a Fenix P3D three months ago and it is the best flashlight I have ever seen. Surefire flashlights were once my gold standard. Now Surefire seems like prehistoric technology to me, in comparison to Fenix. The lowest setting on the P3D is more than enough light for most household tasks. And at 60 hours battery life time on low, I'm seriously wondering if I'll have to replace the batteries even one time a year! The Fenix P3D can also serve well as a self-defense tool on the blindingly high setting (which will also strobe with a click of the switch).

For those of you looking for a LED flashlight using AA batteries, I recommend River Rock AA light available at Target for about $27. You won't be disappointed!

The Novatac P120 series light was designed by Henry S., the owner and engineer behind HDS Systems.

Henry has an excellent reputation and was a pioneer in LED portable lighting technology. See his early Action Light which employed cutting edge power regulation, LEDs and power source in a hugely rugged package, way before it became vogue.

At the time, Henry joined NovaTAC and brought his HDS EDC flashlight with him. With minor tweaks, it was produced as the NovaTAC P120.

It appears Henry and NovaTAC had a falling out at some point and Henry left to resume business under his own company. Henry is fairly consistently regarded as somewhat of an engineering perfectionist, and rumor suggests that perhaps the NovaTAC product wasn't quite up to his standards (tolerances, production, materials). In any case, the specifics are not known since nobody is talking.

Henry did another revision of his design and is now selling the lights under the brand name Ra Lights. His "Ra Clicky" is basically the evolution of what you see as the NovaTAC P120 (which was the evolution of the HDS EDC lights). He has made a fair number of improvements, esp. in the durability, even though the P120 was quite durable already.

His "Ra Twisty" model uses the same technology, but in an ultra rugged design. Note the use of a shock gasket in front, behind, and around the sides of the extra thick lens, in a stainless steel housing. This is about as sturdy as it gets.

In general, Henry's designs have always used very sophisticated power regulation. They do thermal regulation, rechargeable cell protection, etc. These are very sophisticated lights.

So to get back to your answer. In any form, Henry's designs, esp. the electronics are more sophisticated than the Fenix lights IMO.

OTOH, the Fenix lights represent a wonderful value. These are a LOT of bang for the buck. But they aren't close to the Henry designs in any number of ways.

My feeling is the NovaTAC lights are very good lights, but not as good as those that Henry is producing himself under the Ra name.

IIRC, Henry is currently planning a 2xAA battery pack for his Ra lights, but the ETA is unclear. Henry tends to want to get it right, and will delay the release of the product until it is "right".

Basically, you can't go wrong with any of these lights. The Fenix lights are a great value, and in a lot of ways, the NovaTAC lights are a great value in that they have Henry's engineering in less expensive form than from Henry's company. And Henry's lights from Ra represent pretty much the best lights you can get.

Right now, my EDC is an HDS Systems EDC Ultimate 85 with an 18650 lithium ion rechargeable battery pack and a 2x123A battery pack as a spare. Basically a light produced by Henry prior to his joining NovaTAC. It is an outstanding light.

This light has caused me to lose my upgraditis. But if I were to replace it now, it would be with a Ra Clicky and my backup light of preference would be a Ra Twisty.

I look forward to alternate battery packs for the Ra lights, but keep in mind that the Ra lights all are designed to support rechargeable batteries, and I've found the optimal carry situation is to use a rechargeable battery for normal use, and a primary battery as a backup.

-john

This is a good point. All batteries are not created equal, and this applies to lithium 123A cells as well as others.

For the best reference regarding 123A *performance*, see the thread, 123 Battery Shoot Out on CPF. This is the most complete and definitive information on 123A battery performance I've seen.

In regards to safety, this is a serious concern with lithium technology. People should keep in mind that in addition to a failure of the battery, they can explode violently and they vent very dangerous fumes.

While talking about rechargeable lithium technology, the thread Li-Ion protection technology and possible dangers is a good read to get familiar with the dangers of lithium technology. I'd suggest it for anyone using any type of lithium batteries.

Note there are potential issues with manufacturing defects as Doug points out, and problems with people not understanding the risks well enough and doing things they shouldn't.

The first category is difficult to ascertain, but our best defense is as Doug suggests. Try to avoid "off-brands".

The latter is more under our control and basically comes down to: DO NOT mix and match cells of different brands or different charge levels! This means once cell lights are intrinsically more safe than multi cell lights.

Don't allow these batteries to be shorted!

Also, do not use UNprotected li-ion rechargables unless you know what you are doing!

Use of protected li-ion rechargables should still be done with care and understanding of the issues. Don't mix and match different charge levels, different brand/models, etc. Use a charger that does independent cell charging or only charge one cell at a time.

-john

Yep, you missed it! Take a look at the Li-Ion Battery ShootOut to see a comparison of some of the options.

These rechargeables can be very useful, but make sure you understand the safety issues first and treat them with respect.

They are also not appropriate for all applications, so you need to make sure the light (or whatever) supports the use of li-ion rechargables.

-john

Keep in mind these lights have different goals.

Also that there is a broad range of products from SF, some very sophisticated.

While the Fenix lights tend to be brighter, and are great bang-for-the-buck lights, when it comes to reliability and tactical light use, I'd still bet my life on a SF over a Fenix.

This may be changing with the TK10 and TK11, but I haven't seen a critical comparison of these lights in that context. Certainly it is clear the TK10 and TK11 are very good lights and very good values. Are they up to SF standards in regards to reliability? I don't know.

Also keep in mind that a number of the SF lights are essentially "legacy" lights, probably targeted at existing users who have existing fleets to maintain, or people who are familiar with an existing product and don't want to change, or pay more. Also, some don't like the tint of LED lights.

Bottom line is it is good to have options!

-john

+1 TK20 is exactly that, but 2xAA.

This is pretty typical for 4AA lights, esp. incandescents. The AA lithium cells have a slightly higher initial voltage and when you multiply it x4, can often be enough to blow bulbs.

-john

I don't have any, but it sounds like they work fine. You can convert your existing lights by dropping in a SF P60L lamp assembly or one of the after market versions.

My take on it is that at least some of the after market versions are better for brightness, efficiency and cost, but I'd probably stick with the SF lamp assembly if being used as a tactical light in conjunction with a firearm.

-john

Yes, never buy 123A cells from a brick and mortar unless you are totally desperate. It is MUCH cheaper to buy on-line.

Personally, my preference in terms of performance and reliability is something like:

- Streamlight
- Surefire
- Eveready
- Duracell
- Sanyo

-john

The Zebralight H30-Q5 and H60 are pretty sweet headlamps. I'm totally addicted to my H30. The only real downside I see is that the button can get activated accidentally when in your bag.

-john


OK, someone keep me away from the "post" button!

Big +1 on buying online AND on your choice of brands, with the exception of Eveready with which I have no firsthand experience. I have a reasonably priced local source for Surefire batteries but I usually purchase Duracell Ultra 123As online and in bulk.

I particularly favor the Ultras for multiple battery applications.

From what I've heard, the SF and Duracells are basically the same battery, with SF making some tweaks in the fusing due to some of their high drain applications.

Performance in the SF and Streamlight are about the same also, but at the time I was deciding what to use, SF was having some problems slip past QC, so the Streamlight was a bit more reliable.

-john

From what I'm reading, when using lithium batteries (CR123's) in pairs or triplets - regardless of brand - its recommended that you get a good meter, and before use, test each cell to make sure they have full (equal) charges. I guess it is dangerous to put a full battery with a nearly spent one - that can result in dangerous conditions (exploding).

A commonly recommended meter:
http://www.ztsinc.com/minimbt.html

I got one of these a while back and it is nice.

A Good old fasioned multi testor works for measuring batteries and for a number of other tasks as well.

Yes, my understanding is that the problem is when one cell reaches empty and an other cell still has power, it will reverse charge the empty cell and possibly cause the dangerous condition.

I'm not sure I've heard that battery companies suggest you measure the cells before using, and for most users, simply making sure all the cells are fresh and of the same make and model is probably sufficient.

That said, your procedure certainly wouldn't hurt, especially with rechargables where you are more likely to accidentally use a discharged cell.

People should keep in mind that the rechargable 123A cells output higher voltage than the primary 123A cells, and there are VERY FEW applications that allow for more than one 123A rechargable cell.

Basically, you can't just drop 2x rechargable 123A cells in your average SF light.

That said, the 18650 lithium ion cell is almost the same dimensions as 2x123A cells, and with certain lights that employ power regulation, it can be used (note the voltage with 1x18650 will be lower than 2x123A, so a regulated light is a must).

Example lights where this can be done- the HDS EDC lights, the Surefire U2, Fenix TK11.

As always, research the specifics before you do something and treat it with respect.

That said, I'm not trying to scare people off of lithium batteries, either primary or rechargable. I pretty much exclusively use these two technologies. It is excellent technology.

Just be informed and treat it with respect like you would the use of gasoline, a firearm, a knife, automobile a boat or mother nature.

-john

Thanks for the tip on the zebralight, the H30 seems like my ideal headlamp for backpacking. I've been looking to replace my Princeton Tec quad, which eats batteries, and turns on easily in my pack. This addresses those issues and uses the same batteries as my Fenix.

On a side note, for those looking for a cheaper AA flashlight, I can't praise the Streamlight Propolymer Luxeon highly enough. The batteries last a long time, fully regulated, and the optics are the best I've ever seen. The focus makes it seem far brighter than it technically is, and it compares surprisingly well with my Fenix on hight at 215 lumens! It's waterproof and has taken quite a beating. I've used lithium cells in it with no problem. It costs about $30 at brightguy.com The LED is a couple years old, not the latest high tec Cree, but this is a fantastic, high quality light.

From the batteryjunction.com website:

"Every Titanium CR123A battery incorporates PTC protection and the PTC threshold is set at 5AMPS. The protected Titanium CR123A batteries prevent excessive discharge that can damage lithium cells and may lead to catastrophic incidents."

"The double and triple sets of CR123A batteries are produced in the same production lot and the internal resistance of the batteries is matched. The double and triple Titanium CR123A battery sets will prevent new and old batteries from being mixed up and used in the same device"

"The Titanium CR123A 3V non-rechargeable lithium battery is one the most popular, widely used and tested, CR123A lithium batteries on the market."

"Independent tests have shown Titanium CR123A batteries excel in higher drain devices and often outperform the 'big name' cells in those types of devices."


I suppose they could be lying, but otherwise these batteries seem like they've been pretty well tested, and the matched sets seem to add a measure of safety. The website has runtime charts and detailed specs on the batteries also. These batteries were also reccomended at flashlightreviews.com.
In any case I personally would not spend significantly more money on brand name batteries because of an extremely unlikely scenario, which may be just as likely with the more expensive ones. However it is good to know about this potential issue, and I'll be on the lookout for unusual flashlight behavior.

I have the G2 and bought this drop in deal extreme which is simple amazing. I figured I couldn't go wrong for $11, and highly recommend it. Happy post Christmas shopping...