Just slow down

I'm sitting here in our end of the great cold and storm systems hitting the country.We have the rain, heavy snows and a few burn areas under watch for mudslides.
Nothing compared to some other areas,right?
Wrong
Pomona Freeway and a CHiP stops to help a disabled car. He is hit by TWO cars and killed. He leaves a pregnant wife and 4 children aged 7 years to 7 months. He was 29 years old.
I drove locally to the store and saw 8 accidents. I counted 5 vehicles skid,lock brakes and overcorrect into partial spins. I had a driver play bumpertag with the driver next to me and myself with his lights flashing to high beams.
We were going @ 5MPH under the posted limit. He finally got out at a red light screaming,kicking my bumper until the lights of a police cruiser AND an officer yelling at him to kiss pavement got his attention-after three commands.
That one felt good.
We use the STOP acronym in survival.
Tonight I'm thinking SLOW probably would avoid a lot of suprises; from a drive a few blocks to preparing a longterm survival larder.
I was in a hurry once in the store, grabbed three cans of saurekraut instead of two and am cooking italian sweet sausage with it my fatiqued brain said buy.
I did sit in my car until the defoggers made it clear, as did a cup of starbucks my brain.
Lady pulled up as I was backing out and got mad. So I pulled back in and she got mad again, wanting my spot by her gesticulations.
Did I say I like to sip my coffee, real slow?

I'm glad you sipped your hot coffee slow and stayed cool.

It is incredible what some people do when they drive. My friend was getting on to the freeway which was pretending to be a parking lot. Usually people alternate when getting on or off the freeway. My friend had his turn to ease into the unmoving traffic and the guy behind him sees the tiniest bit of daylight so he goes for it. He accelerates and rear ends my friend re injuring his back that he just spent the past three years rehabbing because another idiot hit him three years earlier. My thoughts upon hearing about it...why I oughta...

Just this weekend, with the heavy rains, there were a few intersections without power and therefore without traffic lights. The rule is that it becomes a 4-way stop. These guys were just flying through the intersection without even slowing down. Crazy or at least stupid. When I got home, I decided to stay home and not venture back out to the post office. I figured that Bill_G and Chris_K could just wait for their loot.

Survival means not putting yourself in a bad spot when you can avoid it.

Please brighten this story by telling me the drivers of the TWO cars were single with no family and were also killed. It would realign the karma at least.

May God be with the family of that officer.

The most dangerous thing any of us do, statistically, is get behind the wheel of a car.

On the road you are subjected to the whims of fools and idiots whose foolish idiocy is amplified a thousand fold by thousands of pounds of steel.

Defensive driving is therefore a first-line survival skill.

Though what I really want is a rotating turret that fires golf balls at high velocity. A heads-up display and a couple hundred maxflites would be a heck of a lot more satisfying (and entertaining) than a DVD player.

we have a saying in Minnesota--"why is it that on the first day of winter everyone forgets how to drive??"--

The officer was apparently struck by a BMW that was hit by a Mercedes in heavy rain, heavy being 1-2" in today's storm.
I don't know if excessive speed was a factor, but having driven that freeway once a week for 6 months convinced me it's a nasty one. And to add to this sad event, the officer was recently returned from military duty in Iraq.
Between first typing this, and checking back online, a nieghbor sitting in her parked car on the street was rearended.She didn't have her belt on yet and was severly injured.
I have passengers climb into my car and I insist they buckle up immediately. I get these looks of ' but we aren't even moving yet?' and I remind them everything else IS.
I think I can market a cheap safety and fuel saving devise. It's a wooden wedge with a bolt,slipped under hte gas pedal and calibrated to 65 MPH.

Here in the DFW metroplex we have a radio talk show host who has established a listeners foundation that supports the families of fallen police and fire fighters. The foundation serves an 11 county area.
Upon notification of an police/fire fatality the wheels are set in motion to provide the family a check to cover initial expenses before the insurance, etc. kicks in. The standard established is that the family has the check in hand within 24 hours of the time of death.
Currently the checks are $30,000.00
The listeners foundation came about after a multiple (4) fatality fire accident in about 1997. The fire fighters were all volunteers except that two were also full time fire fighters at another paid department. The two paid fire fighters city insurance refused to pay as they were killed at a fire for another department. It would have paid if they had passed ANY other way. This radio personality came out of his own pocket and paid for the funerals of all four and helped the families with other expenses.
Since then it has been my honor to aid with cash and labor to further that foundation.

On December 16, 2006 an officer was aiding a motorist in Ft. Worth. His scout car was struck from behind by a DWI driver. He was trapped in the Crown Victoria and died in the subsequent fire. He and his wife were anticipating his paycheck to go Christmas shopping. I was notified at daylight and started my family in motion. After the last visitation my family and I delivered an entire Christmas to a FWPD sub-station for anonymous delivery to the fallen officers family. I have always asked for no recognition. My company also goes out and does emergency repairs at these families homes and for officers injured in the line of duty.

If any of our ETS members have the time and wherewithal to aid folks that protect us, please do. I did meet the fallen officers family in 2006 at the wife's request. My family and I spent Christmas with them and helped/played with the kids. It was the worst and BEST Christmas of my and my families lives. I know that ETS has multiple Police/Fire/Rescue/EMS that are paid,unpaid, future and retired. Is it time to consider giving a little something to help this officers family? Is there a way ETS can help? I would be willing to put up the first small amount if it can be done. Let me know.

Sorry for the long story. (It really only touches the tip of the iceberg.) The fact that this thread came on the two year anniversary of the FWPD officer's death as I was taking off my coat from visiting the family at the cemetery.

Agreed!! Speed kills.

Last night, a speeding car looses control and is almost split in half when it hits a large tree. Two 18 year olds killed and four others seriously hurt.

Ever notice that although some can afford to buy a nice car, they can't afford the skill to use it safely?

While I'm with ya in spirit. The speed limits in some areas is 70 mph. I really don't think it is the high speed but driver inattentiveness and the comprehension issues surrounding safe speeds for the driving condiditions. Hell...35 mph may be too fast under some conditions. I don't even have a problem with cell phones, or a drink, or a smoke, or whatever it is one might do...just not all at once (I've seen makeup, cig, food, drink, AND phone on the interstate by the same woman). If you're the type person who has issues being observant without any added issues, then I'm saying cell phones/cigs/food/etc may not be for you when you drive. If you're the type of person who will never again look over your shoulder to change lanes after passing your license test, the driving under any condidition is right out. And for you texters while ya drive...thanks for playing the lottery with our lives.

Tragic to be sure, and I don't mean to sound insensitive but it was poor driving skills that caused this accident, not simply the fact that one can push down on a gas pedal. Poor judgement kills.

Here's are my notable winter driving tales, both involve my tenure at my southern U. S. alma mater:

1. My dorm was at the bottom of a pretty good hill, across from my room are a row of sorority houses (good location) and in between are a small parking lot and a road. One cold January day I was studying at my desk and noticed that it has begun to sleet. Just then I heard a car begin to slide. I looked out the window just in tome to see a car slide into the bumper of a single axle delivery truck. The driver, who is uninjured, gets out to survey the damage. A few minutes, the campus police and a tow truck arrive and take care of the situation. Not five minutes later (and it is still sleeting) I get to watch an instant replay - bang.

2. My college transport was a 1971 Datsun 510 pickup. It was reliable, but it had a weak heater/defroster. On the day I leave to go home for the Christmas holidays, it was a nasty day - sleet with ice pellets and windy. Not the greatest day to be driving a lightly loaded pickup with recap tires. I was having a devil of a time keeping the windshield clear, (I had to stop twice to scrape it off) and several times resorted to driving half on the gravel shoulder to maintain traction and control. So, what should I see coming around a corner but a Ferrari 308! Seriously. What kind on an idiot drives a Ferrari on a day like that.

As anyone in emergency services will tell you, the 10 day window centered on Xmas is THE WORST for Motor Vehicle Accidents.

Two years ago, on Christmas eve, at about 5:00 PM we got a call for an overturned vehicle on the River Road. There was an icy patch.

Cleaned that up by 5:45, we started to drive back to station, I'm looking in my rear view as we pull away - a Jeep Cherokee flips as I'm watching, WHAM into the embankment, same spot as before.

We clear that one up lay down about 4,000 lbs of salt and sand, get back to the station at 6:45, my coffee isn't even done brewing - pagers go off - AGAIN a flipped car, same spot.

We ended up getting 7 flipped vehicles in that spot Christmas eve. 100% of them were from too-fast drivers.

Most of the fatal wrecks I've worked have been in mid-December.

Most of the major trauma wrecks I work are in December.

My oldest has been in two roll-over wrecks from driving too fast in bad conditions. She walked away from both, after totalling the cars. Sometimes they just have to learn the hard way, and all you can do is hope and pray they survive it. Both mistakes were completely avoidable just by a little planning and deciding that going home the day before during decent weather and without being rushed was better than sticking around one more night to party with friends.

Now she is over-cautious about her travel plans, which is a good thing because she is with the younger daughter now as well, and her wariness is keeping them both safer and considerate.

In Illinois, apparently road salt is in limited supply. All roads are being salted far less than last year.

The only sane things to do are to slow down, or avoid driving as much as possible when conditions are ripe for accidents.

We are bracing for 6 more inches of snow tonight...

I was coming out of downtown on I71 last year and it goes up a hill and is a 55mph section with a lot of merges and such. Lexus with the blue blinding hid lights comes up behind me fast and starts to change into the left lane to pass when it turns sideways and goes straight to the right, I was able to see the side of it clearly.
Couple years before that a saw one of the little WV cars spinning around in circles and they had a tv ad running around that time that showed it spinning around in circles and flying around like a UFO.
When i was in college we had a camaro turn sideways in front of uss and I was able to cut into the right lane from the center lane and pass him as he slid down the left two lanes, he was facing us at the time looking out his windhsield into my side window so my room mate smiles and waved.

7:30 this morning(12-16-08) a 60ish female talking on her cellphone with family driving her car to get on the freeway
Family hears shout, phone goes dead, she rear ended a parked truck
She is in critical condition at local hospital
U.H.P. says she was so distracted she didn't even hit her brakes.

Update: the truck was parked in the emergency lane, up against the guard rail

I've seen some bad ones too, not even snow related. One lady drove her minivan right through the middle of a Honda minivan, broke it in half, child seats in the center.
I saw soneone in a Bonneville rear end a Honda on the highway and the front wheels of the Bonneville were in the back seat of the Honda pinning the driver to the steering wheel. Then pulled the bonneville out and had to drag the honda up on the flatbed in peices.
Saw a guy in a small Honda, older one that looked like a station wagon in back but was two doors tried to cut across a 35mph street and was hit in the passenger door by an old Chevy S10 blazer. The Honda flew up into a yard and the passeger side of the car hit the driver, glad there was no one in the pasenger seat. The blazer had a bent bumper and cracked grill.
I'be gotten to where I won't even ride in a Honda, seen way too many of those cause driver injury in what should have been a minor accident, sure it can happen to any vehicle but seem to happen too much to Hondas.

Another thing is if you tow please make sure that the trailer is attached correctly. We had a fatal incedent yesterday that involved a run away trailer crossing the center of a four lane road and hitting a car.

We had one of those a couple months ago. I was almost within site of it, traffic came to a stop and I turned on the cb and in a little bit someone said there was an accident.

I have a clear mania about making sure my trailer is secured.

Yesterday the youngest daughter had to take me to the train station for work, and it was below 0 degrees F and snow and ice intermittent on the roads. She drove 10 mph below the speed limit, and complained about the idiots that were passing us just to get to the red light up ahead first.

For 19, I think she is starting to learn.

I just noticed this one. I'm traveling this weekend so its within the window. What can I do tomimprove my chances? I have:
1. CB to monitor conditions around
2. Good tires (BFG AT just bought first of this year)
3. Upgraded brakes, they are the same as police rated except for the police rating.
4. High end car seats.
5. BOB's/ GHB for the famlily.
6. I need to get winter blades still, I'll stop on the way home today and get those for both vehicles.

Snow is falling in Cincinnati, OH area now. Temps below freezing, freeways jammed up already.

http://www.artimis.org/segaccess1.html

Looks like a bad day to have to pick up the kid at school! Just have to get home and stay. Good thing he listened to me this am and actually wore his winter coat!

Not much, short of driving a very heavy, large vehicle, like a Suburban or a Peterbilt.

My perspective is warped from cutting people out of cars - I think of driving as the single most insane thing you can do, with the possible exception of Russian Roulette.

I've seen wrecks in snow, rain, night and day, where the car was hit and where the car just went off the road and we'll never know why.

The good news?

Early projections show traffic deaths for the first 10 months of 2008 are down about 10 percent compared with the same period last year. Estimates from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration show that 31,110 people died on the nation's roads from January through October, compared with 34,502 during the same period in 2007.

The bad news?
31,110 people died on the nation's roads from January through October. That's 102 people a day, or about 4 people an hour, every day of the week.

Of course, compared to the over 459,000 Americans that die of coronary heart disease every year, this is nothing, but it's still a big number.

Silverado, so close enough to one of those.

I also read somewhere that the amount of miles driven was down around 10% due to higher gas prices.

I've come to the conclusion that paying attention while driving is something that is done only when drivers have nothing else to do. Unfortunately, there is almost always something else competing for their attentiveness.

On terminology, I prefer to refer to these incidents as crashes and not accidents. Calling them accidents seems to infer that it was something that couldn't be avoided. I also don't like it when people say that the weather caused a wreck. If that's the case, everyone who drove in the same conditions should have wrecked. Wrecks that occur during poor weather are generally caused by drivers who refuse to adjust to deteriorating conditions.

Condolences to the family, friends and coworkers of the officer that was needlessly killed. Unfortunately, it is not a unique occurrence.

You never know when your time is up, but a coupla things I think improve one's chances:

- seatbelts, everyone, all the time.
- drive on divided highways (avoid headons)
- driver slower, speed kills
- drive alert, rest often. Get fat eating burgers at greasy spoons along the way. Don't drive tired no matter what you do.
- cellphone for 911 calls.
- FAK and roadsign assistance stuff, and the wits to know when to use either. 911 is always your first option. Actually getting out of your car and helping at a roadside accident is not always something you can do without getting killed or putting your family in danger.
- Your AAA card and phone number.
- yield. Smile. Yield again. Don't worry about it, they'll just assume you are Norwegian.

+10 on the driving only when rested. Few years ago I drove 3 hours one way to help my brother in law rebuild his front porch. Nice october day, windy and drizzle all day! I was back on the road by 5pm and after an hour realized that I had no buisness being on the road. Pulled into a rest stop laid the seat back and instead of waking up to my wristwatch alarm 45 min later, I woke up to a NY State Trooper knocking on my window 2 hours later!
Turns out the trooper was my best friend from grade school whom I hadn't seen in 18 years.

- seatbelts always. In laws won't ride in our vehicles because anymore due to that rule, so it has a bonus advantage
- All highway until we hit route 7 in morgantown
- I get tailgated and flashed at often for going the speed limit or below. With the cap I not have three layers of tinted glass to block the light and a trailer hitch for the tailgaters.
- we have to stop often, kids get bored. I make the wife swap cd's when there are no Christian stations.
- both cell phones, check
- first aid kit in the cab under the seat and in the cap.
- have tools and breakdown gear.
- AAA card, etc
- check.

Tirechains, maybe?
I found that when I was working my way through college, on any snowy day, a rusted out, primer spotted, pickup truck with tirechains and 4x6" oak bumpers always got the right-of-way.

If you're getting "tailgated and flashed often" you might want to pull to the right.

I'm all for defensive driving but anyone sitting in the number 1 lane going under the speed limit is simply asking for trouble. Some states have laws mandating that slower moving traffic MUST move to the right.

John E

the problem is when you are in the right, and folks come up and tailgate

Many many moons ago, when I worked for GM, I had the fortune of taking their "advanced driver training" done at their proving ground near Detroit. One of the most memorable portions centered around the instructor the three "trainees" that their task is to go backward throough a slolum (sp?) course as fast as we could. The first person who tried it when way too fast and quickly lost control. The instructor laughed and said "I said to do it as fast as you can ... you were obviously going faster than you COULD do it."

Speed is a relative thing - its skill, experience, fore-thought, and some common sense that come together when we judge which speeds are appropriate. Drive to arrive!!

thats when going 67 in the right lane of a 65mph zone, people around here don't know what speed limits are.

The corralary is that those that buy SUVs or pickups often can't park them (in the lines).

I hate idiot drivers. (and on occasion, have even called myself that)

Around here all the big vehicles are parked nicely and you have to squeeze between the small cars that are crooked.

One of the reasons I drive a 4x4 Yukon is it beats a small car when hit by another. All Passengers are seatbealted in BEFORE the Yukon is started

My defensive driving skill is distance = time. By that I mean that I always try to leave enough space between my car and the car in front so that I have the time to react. As I get older I find myself leaving more space 'cause my reactions are frankly slower at 58 years than they were at 18.

So it stands to reason that I hate tailgating. I've been thinking of getting a bumper sticker (or maybe one of those flashing led signs for the back windshield) to pass on the message that "the closer you are the slower I go". I figure when the guy behind me can't stop in time when the deer runs out into the road in front of me at least he won't be going so fast when he smacks me.

The worst offenders are the tailgaters on a multi-lane road who prefer to tailgate rather than pass. If I move to the left they go by, but they won't change lanes to get around me.

PS, I'm not a slow driver by any means but so many people seem to have a complete disregard to the traffic laws that even driving at the limit plus 5mph seems to aggravate guys in pickups, women in giant SUVs and city municipal waste haulers. Don't even get me started about yellow lights...

Heh, I was rear ended because I actually stopped to turn on red as the law states your supposed to do.

sadly, this is not an uncommon story. people drive too fast for conditions. that is never going to stop. we used to call it job security. as for the officer, it is a fact that more highway cops are killed by cars than by bullets. highway workers have it worse, we just don't hear about them as often. lloyds of london doesn't show this, but i suspect that standing alongside of a freeway ranks right up there with farm workers and aircraft carrier flight deck workers as the most dangerous places to work. luckily, the chp has a good support system in place...

2 inches of snow, 6 accidents in a 10 mile stretch of highway. Oh did I mention 1 hour and 15 minutes drive time. You think these people would be used to it. Every years first snowfall throws some kind of idiot switch on in everyone but me.

Rant off.

Only the first snowfall? You're lucky.

It's every snowfall around here. The first is the worst though.
Makes for some busy and entertaining scanner listening.

I've always wondered why the powers that be haven't come up with something along this line already. Some type of electronic device in the car that somehow receives signals from another device mounted to speed limit signs, that won't let you go over the speed limit (police and EMS exempted). A friend of mine that's a cop says the government wouldn't want it, speeding citations are quite the revenue source for the state.

"...quite the revenue source for the state..."

that depends on the state. in ca, something like 90% of the money collected from traffic citations goes to the city/county where the violation occurred. they, of course, would probably hate to lose that revenue...

In Oklahoma, It is against the law for revenue generated from traffic citations to be placed in any law enforcement budget. Now drug seizure money is an entirely different story.

I've heard one of the reasons police let people drive above the speed limit is it helps get them home and off the road sooner, thereby thinning out the amount of traffic on the road at any one particular time. The man telling me this used the analogy of water pipes: If you need to move more water (car traffic), you can do only two things - increase the size of the water pipe (build larger roads) or increase the velocity of the water (let cars drive faster). Most of the major roads are simply too small for the amount of traffic on them (at least during rush hours).

"I think I can market a cheap safety and fuel saving devise. It's a wooden wedge with a bolt,slipped under hte gas pedal and calibrated to 65 MPH."

I've got a better use for the wedge. Got a mallet with you?

"...'why is it that on the first day of winter everyone forgets how to drive??'"

Here in WA, it's every day, every night, dry, sunny, windy, raining, snowing, ice. These people make So. Californias look like the Supreme Drivers of the Universe. Even drunk.

"If you need to move more water (car traffic), you can do only two things - increase the size of the water pipe (build larger roads) or increase the velocity of the water (let cars drive faster)."

Sooooo.... what's the hurry in draining the tank?

Sue

RE Buckled before start...

Not me - I usually reach in, start the truck, then climb in, buckle, adjust mirrors as necessary, check my guages, etc - that time between is the truck's 'warm up'

kick the tires
light the fires
buckle up
check the mirrors...

And, as many know, a large number of drug busts are a direct result of minor traffic stops.

Irony: Bust someone for speeding, find a small amount of dope, the perp denies ownership. Bust someone for murder, they admit to using/possessing dope, perp uses drug addiction as their defense for murder.

Lesson learned: Charge traffic law offenders with murder to get them to admit to traffic offense and drug possession.

My reasoning was, there are ump-teen million of those cars going by at 5 - 10 mph over the speed limit which the engineers set 10 - 15 mph slow anyway. If I stop one of them, which one do I pick right now? Now if some horses' posterior comes flying by much faster than everyone else we will have a volunteer. If the group as a whole doesn't see me and almost kill themselves (and everyone behind them) trying to slow down I might need to pick one from the herd to set the example for the rest. But if I am stopping grandma for keeping up with traffic, am I missing that horses' posterior on a crotch rocket doing an 85 mph wheelie?


Back to Oklahoma and Drug Seizure money. One must remember I35 and I40 intersect there in Oklahoma City. There is so much cash flying through that state from drug trafficking that if they got it ALL for one year that the entire state budget for ten years would be good to go probably.

Hmm, where do you think all the lousy drivers in Washington came from? When Gregoire got elected as governor it should've been obvious that Seattle and Tacoma had been overrun by So Cal relocates. Hey, I would want to leave too, especially after seeing what the CA legislation is doing to the state budget, yet again. How many times can a state declare bankruptcy? So Cal is like a cancer to the rest of the country.

One thing I've noticed here in SE PA is that the roads tend to get very slick, even with just light rain. I never noticed that in the NE.

I wonder if it is a function of the increased traffic, material road is paved with, something else?

Either way, people tend to not know how to drive in snow down here.

Can’t explain that observation to you Mike, Might be the topography, the increased traffic leaving more oil on the road, the way ice/rain/snow line seems to parallel I95 or alien technology gone wrong. But it can be an adventure driving in anything other than clear, dry, sunny conditions, on a holiday.

Personally I think that the folks who make driving an adventure when it snows are all the folks who moved from the cities, like Philly, to the country. In Philly the streets were never plowed so they couldn’t get their cars out to drive. They move to Chester County, buy their Suburbans and Expeditions, thinking that driving at 45mph on snowy, hilly roads is the same as city driving at 20mph on flat streets.

But if you think SE Pa is bad, try northern VA around DC some time. Yeesh!

I have a sibling who lives in Birmingham AL. The city has one snowplow. When it snows , everyone stays home.

Going to be a messy few days, maybe even a white Christmas! Take it easy out there and everyone be safe.

Andy

you guys are really making me dread coming to visit while dragging a 35 ft trailer! of course, we sure won't be in that part of the county in winter. us snowbirds don't do that kinda stuff!!!

I couldn't agree with you more. I grew up outside of W-B in the NE. The city would be getting rain, we would be getting 6 inches of snow. I was very used to driving in snow in nothing more than a standard front wheel drive sedan.

Those "road warriors" in their SUVs think they can go at whatever speed they want and not have a problem. Somebody needs to explain mass and inertia to them.

I still suspect oil / excessive traffic for the road conditions around the area. Then again, alien technology could be plausible.

"where do you think all the lousy drivers in Washington came from?"

I've been rear-ended 11 times in the 15 years I've lived here. I haven't been hit anywhere near that many times in my whole life. It's gotten to be fort of a hobby to ask where they're from. Every single one is a native.

And stay well away from them when they're backing up! JEEEZ!

Sue

I think it'S PENNDOT's fault. The West is no better I find myself slipping even on just wet roads, I do not remember that happening ten years ago.

It very well could be a change in the materials they use on the roads.

Sometimes here in Colo if they use one product and it gets a lot colder than they expect the product behaves like water would if they applied it (very slick).

Ok, glad that I'm not the only remembering that roads used to not be as slick. Maybe it is those aliens... ;-)

Every single one a native? Dang, when I lived there back in the 70s and 80s, it didn't seem nearly as bad. I can definitely tell you out on the east side of the state it was real easy to tell the natives from the immigrants. Come the first icing of the roads, all the transplants' rigs would be in the ditch.

I guess you must be dealing with the 2nd generation (referring to themselves now as native Washingtonians), who obviously learned their driving skills (and requisite bad attitudes) from their parents.

Well, I suppose each region has their own troubles. I was often frustrated in Florida when the freeway became an instant parking lot the moment the thunderstorm cell started to cross the road. I can understand slowing down, but to just stop and wait the storm out, what a groaner. Usually it seemed that some old person who's vision was marginally legal at best could no longer see through the blur of the windshield once the downpour started, even to the point of not being able to find the side of the road on which to vacate to, so they just stopped where they were and that was all their was to it.

In my own culpability, I have to admit that I made the mistake of trying to drive to work right after an ice storm and ended up with my pickup truck in the ditch as well. Fortunately where I went off the road it was under control and out in the middle of nowhere, so at least I had the sense to screw up where it would have the least effect on others. I left my pickup and crawled hands and knees across the frozen road to the edge of a field where I could stand and walk the rest of the way to work. 6 hours later after the Chinook came in and melted off all the ice I went and retrieved my truck, none the worse for wear thankfully.

When I was college kid and madly in love (with my wife of now 36 years) I once drove to her house on a icy, foggy night during Christmas break. The trip home was the scariest 5 miles I have ever driven. The fog was so bad I literally had to open the car door and look for the edge of the road as I drove. Hormones overcome common sense every time.

PA does build their roads differently than any other state. Other states they lay concrete with expansion gaps and then blacktop over. PA pours one continuous bed of concrete then comes back with a big saw blade and cuts the expansion gaps. They seem to cut too deep or too close together and water gets under and the concrete slabs then shift so you get that bu bump, bu bump, bu bump, bu bump, all the way. When they repaved I79 a few years back it was worse when they finished than when they started.

That state has worse drivers than others, you go to pass someone and there will be no one around yet they will cut over in front of you and they will be going 50mph when your going 65+ and you have to hit the brakes to keep from hitting them. No other state does it as consistent, twice it happened on this trip and the second one flipped me off.

I should have posted that we made our trip. Went down Friday and came back Sunday.
When we got there Friday they had no power so I setup the kids beds and unpack by the flashlight in my BOB. Its really dark out there when there is no power and the clouds block the stars and moon. My son's leapfrog Tad thing that plays music was getting low so I swapped some batteries in my bob and popped the ones from it in the maha 401fs powered from the second battery in the truck to top those off since I didn't know when we would get power again. Parents have a small noisy generator but they weren't sure if it would power the electric stove so I was ready to cook the Turkey on my small portable grill I carry in the truck. I was prepared.
Wife let me spend $200 at Cabelas on the way home

Years ago, I was driving an 18-wheeled milk tanker. 5000 gallons of raw milk sloshing around inside an un-baffled tank on it's way to the dairy. I'm on a 4-lane at 55 MPH when a guy 4th in line at an on-ramp decides he's in too much of a hurry to wait and pulls out in front of me and STOPS and then starts waving the people that were in front of him on the on-ramp to go. I had cars in the lane next to me and couldn't move over so I hit the brakes and the horns (luckily no one else on the ramp decided to go for it!). Needless to say, I nailed the guy. I can say from experience that when 80,000 pounds of truck hits a 3000 pound car, you feel nothing. That truck didn't shake, shimmy or vibrate in the slightest, it just shot that car away like a cannonball! The car was an '79 Olds Cutlass Supreme, a fairly large car, and it was scrap after that. I'll bet that car was shortened by three feet after I hit him, and with his girlfriend and daughter in the rear seat! He gets out and starts screaming at me that I should have stopped. I'm thinking "Yeah, no kidding. That's easy to say, it's convincing the truck that's the problem." Big trucks don't "stop," they just keep slowing down until they're not moving.
I started screaming back at him that I was already on the road at the legal speed limit. You're supposed to yield to oncoming traffic, hence the big YIELD sign! Luckily, no one was hurt, but he ended up suing my company anyway. He lost, but I was still angry about it. I was doing everything by the book, he drove stupidly and yet still blames everyone but himself for what happened. Driving heavy trucks is a very frustrating way to make a living.
Anyway, one of the kids, who's good at math, figures this out and gives it to me...
- 80,000 pounds of truck, moving at 55 MPH, has exactly the same momentum (Momentum is mass x velocity) as a 2200 pound car moving at four times the speed of sound.
Every time I heard someone complain about stupid drivers, I yell "Try it in a heavy truck!"

He obviously didn't know about the "lugnut rule."

To get a good idea of what happens when a big rig hits a stopped car, just watch the first few minutes of "Beverly Hills Cop." I used to show that to new officers, so that they would have an idea what to look for the first time they had to work a big rig vs parked car T/C on I-5 (which happen just about every day)...

Yep, reminds me of a stupid train wreck I saw once. Big Tractor trailer pulling a low-boy loaded with a D-9 Cat trying to sneak in before the arms come down. The train didn't look like it was phased in the least as it hit that trailer and sent the D-9 flying through the air. Made a helluva racket, though.

I guess the sooner someone invents the forcefield, the fewer such accidents will happen.

A tractor/trailer arguing with a train in like a Geo Metro arguing with a Tractor Trailer - NOT good for the smaller vehicle

I was talking with a Engineer one day, and he said he ONLY worried about hitting 2 things - a loaded propane truck (figured the blast would kill him) and a bus load of kids (he said he figured he'd kill himself)

Don't know if there is any truth in this but...
I was once told by an engineer for BNSF that it isn't IF you have hit a car but WHEN. He said it took three years before the first car got in front of his train and he was amazed at how far it flew the first time he hit it.

propane tanks are designed to withstand a hit by a train, they will bounce off an fly away but shouldn't rupture or leak.

Yes, it's a matter of when - I think I saw a stat that the average Engineer hits slightly more than 3 cars over time

My friend Joe told me this story - he was riding Amtrak sometime around 1980 (If I think hard, I could probably pin it closer), and for a rare once, they were about 2 hours out of Chicago, and ON TIME. Suddenly, he felt the brakes engage, then go into emergency - and the train stopped

They had hit a car, and rolled it up on the plow - the good news is no one was in the car - and they did allow folks out of the train to stretch their legs. Joe summed up the dammage to the train - they had to replace a brake hose, and slap some black paint on the plow - the car, on the other hand, was a small ball that had to be pried out from under the coupler.

The arrived the usual 6 hours late

I've helped clean up a few of these, and always thought that leaving the mangled car in direct view of the grade crossing might cut down on people trying to beat the gates...but it would probably just make it worse.

In a reverseal to all these nightmares, Last night I had a fun drive. A friend bought a vintage Mini Cooper in Malibu and prudently asked me to help drive it home, my having owned one for two years. His wife would follow in the family Ford. We took one of the fampous coastal canyons. I was concerned about possible rock slides, but the major routes were a mess.
I'm doing a prudent 30 MPH and was pleased to see his wife keeping up.
Well, as we entered my town, his 'wife' pulled alongside.We later learned she had passed on that 'scary Decker Canyon, Mr Toads's wild ride at Dizneyland' as she later described it, for bumper to bumper traffic. It was a CHiP cruiser and , as it's a RHD I rolled down the window and saw my friend Officer Green!The canyons have become so dangerous, worldwide drivers are coming here to test these demanding canyons with several wrecks and deaths, that a visible increase in patrols hasd been initiated.
First, I'm told he clocked me at a steady 30 MPH from start to finish, and never saw me brake once, and that he needed me to 'step out of the vehicle.' I'm thinking a big HUH? Wondering how he saw the first hairpin turn posted @ 15 MPH where I half broke the rear end into a slight 4 wheel drift.But THAT was even only 20 MPH, below which any self respected REAL mini will stall out with it's SU carbon any incline over 18 degrees.
Officer Green just laughed, saying " Chris, I just want to see that 6' 2" frame get out of that little itty bitty matchbox.I hope you're not wearing those high heeled cowboy boots!
This is what driving should be all about.

I used to date a train driver a few years ago. As you can guess, she used to take a lot of ribbing about being "such a cute little girl driving that big 'ol train." Anyway, we were talking about stupid drivers and she says "We're trained to do three things. Hit the brakes, hit the horns and hit the floor."
I'm looking at her with a puzzled look saying "I understand hitting the brakes and the horns, but the floor? In a train, you're damn near invincible. You'll obliterate anything you hit!" She said "You have no idea what's going to happen. The car might come up in the cab with you. It might derail the train. We just lay down and hang on until everything stops and then worry about cleaning up whatever's left." She even said after a bad wreck, they're told to stay in the cab, radio it in and not go to look at anything. Too many of the driver's quit after seeing what their train did to a car or truck. Obviously, it doesn't leave a lot to bury. No matter what, the laws of physics will always win.

Gross Tonnage rules!

You'd think people would be smart enough to figure that out. I've always wondered how someone can pass a truck as big as these things are, knowing that at highway speeds, they'll take up to a 1/4 mile to slow one down, and then get a car length or two in front of them. I've had people pull in front of me so closely that I couldn't even see the back of their car due to the nose of the truck. I was thinking of putting a little sign on my truck saying something like "I don't mind if you commit suicide, but please don't use me as the means."

I had a bumper sticker on the back of my 30ft trailer:

"If you can't stop, Smile as you go under!"

I always give truckers a lot of respect for the job they do. I've driven some rather large moving trucks and always have the shakes when I'm done. I don't know how you guys maneuver those suckers. But yeah, lots of mass, very very slow stop.

What I don't like is truckers passing me in the left lane when the weather conditions are not favorable and I get hit with the slosh from their tires as they pass... That just makes me nervous.

To that I must disagree. Yes we have a fair share of bad drivers, but that is more regional. In the NE, they tended to be more curtious then outside of Philly. I've been cursing up a storm since moving from far out suburbs to closer suburbs.

NJ, now there were some bad drivers. I lived there for a few years and barely anyone used their signals.

I had a friend from CT that said PA drivers were easy in comparison.

Like I said, depends on how close you are to a city as to the quality of the drivers. The closer, the worse they are.

Yes, just slow down.
I was a passenger on this bus.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/09/23/6853076.html
I really do not remember the accident at all.
I have been told that I was one of the bodies seen flying through the air. It put me in hospital for 5 weeks.

A chain of small stupidities driven by haste added up to a tragedy and six men who never made it home for the May long weekend.

I moved to Northeast Pennsylvania from Southern California. Believe me, the Pennsylvania drivers cannot even fathom what a bad driver really is. Heck… Pennsylvania drivers still think roads are “congested” when the cars are still moving at 20 miles per hour or more. I have had to educate a few of them that it isn’t really congested until you can put your car in park.

You aren't in a traffic jam until you have time to get out and stretch your legs or run to the quickie mart on the service road! Yes, I had a passenger run down to a C store to get us all water once in California. We had moved maybe 75 yards while he was gone.

Buddy of mine was driving up I-95 and ran into stop and go traffic in Delaware. Got off at the rest stop, used the rest room, got a cup of coffee, got back in the car and ended up directly behind the same car he was behind when exited he for the rest stop.

Sounds like I-5 on Thankgsgiving weekend...

It was the 405 Southbound just South of the 210, on the day before Christmas Eve one year. Trying to get to LAX without going to Compton again.

The 405 is a parking lot, always has been, always will be. I used to work it on graveyards from Century to the Long Beach Frwy. Only time you could drive fast on it...

Which freeway is it that comes out of LAX that has a freaking traffic light on it? I don't remember but think either 105 or 405. That was one serious surprise the first time.

All that means is there are way too many people in the area, and I dare say in the world.

I-405, the San Diego Frwy (unless they have built a new one since I was last there (a long long time ago). I don't know anything about a signal on it tho...

People are just mad in general. It's your fault they are late when you drive properly and you must be a retard if you don't speed up when you see a yellow light...
In Chicago I do allot of giving up the right away, smiling at people screaming at me, and helping old lady's to compensate for the general hate going around in this city. And i exclude no races in this. The rich whites are as equally a-holish as the latin gangs. (maybe more when it comes to getting in the way of their beamers) I'd love to live rural but i need to figure out a means of income...

I think it was where I-105 came out to get on I-405. Was on heck of a surprise though.

Not sure that would help much. My neighbor was involved in accident last week. She was driving down a country road at the speed limit of 25mph. As she came to an intersection where the cross street had stop signs (her road did not) a woman pulled out directly in front of her causing a collision, albeit minor enough not to cause the airbags to inflate. When my friend asked the woman why she pulled out the woman said "you were going so slowly I thought you were going to stop."

Oy.

I see that one a lot, people look right at you then pull out in front of you anyway. I was rear ended years ago because I stopped at a red light before making the right turn. then she decided it was because I didn't have a third brake light in the old truck.

My daughter got t-boned in her U.S. mail truck a couple of weeks ago, while crossing a signal controlled intersection on the green. Guy blew the red 'cuz he was texting on his cell phone. CA, in its infinite wisdom, made a hands free cell phone required while driving last July, but forgot about texting. Had to write a new law, which took effect a couple of days after the crash. Then, it being CA, the badguy tried to get away, caught by witnesses, had no proof of insurance, and said that she ran the red...

It is scary out there with distracted drivers. It seems to get worse every year.

Research is pretty clear that hands-free phone users are almost as distracted as non-hands-free phone users.

I have been trying my best to not use my cell phone at all when I am driving, hands-free or otherwise. I changed my voice mail message greeting to reflect this.

Since I go from appointment to appointment, usually less than an hour each, I check messages, make calls, and do my text messaging before I leave the parking place.

It seems that many have an over-inflated sense their own self-importance when it comes to real time communication while driving or otherwise.

What Garly says about the cell phones seems to be right.
There was, as always, a study done on it.

The one I saw was compared telephone conversation to a chatty passenger. The cell phone was far worse because even a chatty passenger shuts up and lets you drive when you are getting near corners and intersections.
Being on the phone was as bad as having kids fighting in the back seat, and whether it was a hands on phone or not seemed to make very little difference
The part that got me was they investigated the effect of having a coffee. It seems while a person is drinking a cup of coffee they are as bad in reaction time as a person who had two or three beers

-----
Here is another one that compared cell phone users to drubk drivers.

A Comparison of the Cell Phone Driver and the Drunk Driver

David L. Strayer
University of Utah

Dennis J. Crouch
University of Utah

Frank A. Drews
University of Utah


July 2004

AEI-Brookings Joint Center Working Paper No. 04-13


Abstract:
We used a high-fidelity driving simulator to compare the performance of cell-phone drivers with drivers who were legally intoxicated from ethanol. When drivers were conversing on either a hand-held or hands-free cell-phone, their braking reactions were delayed and they were involved in more traffic accidents than when they were not conversing on the cell phone. By contrast, when drivers were legally intoxicated they exhibited a more aggressive driving style, following closer to the vehicle immediately in front of them and applying more force while braking. When controlling for driving conditions and time on task, cell-phone drivers exhibited greater impairment than intoxicated drivers. The results have implications for legislation addressing driver distraction caused by cell phone conversations.

Keywords: cell phones, drunk drivers, performance, legislation

There was an insurance group study about 2-4 years back that looked at activities undertaken by drivers who were inattentive and had accidents. The study showed hands down it was radio play variants that occupied most of the top 10 activities. They separated things like radio, CD, etc. Food and drink were in there a couple of times as well. Makeup was in there as well. I remember the insurance industry leaders speak of food and radio being consistently high in the studies (it was on NPR). I don't see anyone leading the charge to eliminate radios from cars.

However, I don't necessarily think these things create driver inattentiveness rather than simply being the reason of the moment. Inattentive people will be that way regardless of how they do it. For about 2 years in an employer-provided van I had 6 accidents...all by people not looking over their shoulders when they wanted to change lanes...most in work traffic, a couple at night...WITH LIGHTS on dark roads!!! I see this several times a week still. Apparently you only have to look over your shoulder for the original driver's test...after that, don't bother. Anyway, it is hard to blame an activity when people make choices to engage in activities beyond their abilities. Hell, many people can't drive and TALK at the same time...especially you hand-talkers!

Drive and talk?! I am of the opinion that many people cannot successfully drive and breathe at the same time. If only those people could be convinced to stop doing one or the other.