Socks--one or two layers?

I only do casual day hiking but I remember a long time ago, when I would occasionally read about more serious backpacking and such, two layers of socks were often recommended. I was just wondering, with newer fabrics and blends being developed all the time, whether the more serious backpackers of today use one or two layers of socks?

The thread the other day about planning for walking 21 miles home got me to thinking about socks.

I'm not a serious backpacker but it seems to me that the immediate benefit of wearing two layers of socks would be that much of the friction would be between the two layers of socks instead of between the socks and skin. <shrug>

Its not fancy, nor is it very attractive, but ...

I wear two layers:

Inside I wear a pair of black nylon dress socks that I bought from the local Walmart - they come in 3-packs. Make sure they're not cotton. This is the odd and no-so-attractive part, but they are durable and dirt-cheap.

Outside I wear a pair of good Smartwool hiking socks - I think they were called "Hiker" (Smartwool has all sorts of different kinds of wool socks).

I like Smartwool socks because on those real cold nights I can also wear them without a liner at night in my sleeping bag to help keep my feet warm. Regular wool is so itchy to me that it drives me nuts - not so with the Smartwool. The wool socks make a huge difference when its cold and I'm trying to sleep.

I've also been known to wear the Smartwool by itself when just hanging around camp - not hiking, but I do worry it puts more wear on the wool sock than when using a liner.

Back in the 1870's when I used to backpack a lot, 2 pair were worn to help reduce blisters and provide some more cushioning. The inner pair was supposed to be a thin sock. I never liked the feeling. It felt I was sliding around in my boots. Eventually, you could buy socks that were designed to reduce blisters by having 2 socks made into one unit but I never tried them. They seemed to be mostly designed for runners and I could not find them in styles high enough to wear with boots.

This article seems to be pretty good. The gist I got out of it after a quick skim was wear 2 acrylic socks -- one with good cushioning. But clearly in some situations, you are just going to get blisters.

The other day, I was watching some show called "Survival School" on the MOJO channel (I am not making this up). The show followed a bunch of students through the U.S. Air Forces' S.E.R.E school. During one segment the students had to hike many miles across mountainous terrain with heavy packs. Some of their feet took gruesome beatings. One student lost the entire bottom callus of a heal.

+1 to KenK. I also wear thin, nylon dress socks from Walmart under my wool hiking socks (also from Walmart ). I've found I'm pretty susceptable to blisters on my heel and on the edges of my toes no matter which boots/shoes I'm wearing. I never have this problem when I do the two-sock thing.

-Blast

"Back in the 1870's when I used to backpack a lot..."

REALLY??? If you were backpacking when you were fourteen, that would make you 145 now. And you can still see and type, not to mention think?

You need to contact the Guinness people at http://guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/default.aspx

And I'd do it right away, if I were you... Right NOW, in fact.

Sue

I've done some serious hiking and the 2 pair solution works for me. Under sock is a Thermax wicking sock the outer sock is Fox River <something>. Buy your boots AFTER you figure out your sock standards.

I also wear combat boots and cushion-foot wool socks for long days afield but my feet are definitely less happy than in my 2 socks hiking boots setup.

I always do the two sock thing. Seems to work for me. I'm using Ultimax brand liner socks which are a bit thicker than dress socks. I haven't used Smartwool, but I've talked to a lot of people who have used Smartwool and really like it.

I actually carry at least two changes of socks (four pair in other words) of varying weights. Mainly, I carry the extra socks in case I get wet (always have a pair of dry socks in case you have to bivvy), but if I start getting a hot spot, I can try a different sock. Sometimes that's all it takes.

Oh, and duct tape works really well on hot spots. Note, however, that duct tape does not breathe which can be an issue on multi day trips.

Yup, pretty accepted notion.

Thin nylon dress socks are a great idea. I've always used sock liners under wool. These days I have REI branded Cool-Max liners under Smartwool. It's a good combination.

Do what works for you - 1 sock layer in my comfortable Lowas, 2 sock layers in my looser Danner boots. There's an argument for carrying fewer socks if you go with 1 sock layer, but nothing is worthwhile if you feet are uncomfortable or blister.

For a contrary POV:

I've been an avid backpacker for 35 years, mostly mountains, some desert, swampy areas, etc. I did the thin, wicking liner socks under thick wool socks thing for many years. It worked well. However, for the last 10+ years, I've simply worn single layer, modern, purpose-designed hiking socks from sources like Smartwool and Thorlo, and they have been equally effective at blister prevention and comfort.

In my judgment, the factors most important for blister prevention are, in order:
Boot fit, lacing adjustment, and break-in,
High quality, often after-market, insoles,
Immediate attention to any hot spots before blisters form, and
proper sock selection.

Another advantage of modern socks is that they are quick to dry. This means that they can be washed and rinsed of salt sweat and grime, and left to and dry overnight. I carry 3 pairs - one on my feet, one drying spare pair, and one clean pair for the next morning, which I sometimes wear in my sleeping bag the night before. Clean socks are more comfortable, wick moisture better, and are generally more comfortable.

I wear clean socks every day and wash my feet every night. I adjust my boot lacing for the terrain. One other thing I always do is wear gaiters to seal out dirt and debris from falling into my boots and causing discomfort. I always wear simple, low ankle gaiters in an uncoated breathable fabric , unless high and water-resistant gaiters are called for.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

For short stuff, I just go with one pair in warm weather. In cold weather or anything more than 3-4 miles, two pairs. I can't stand the feel of nylon socks, so I wear cotton or light cotton/wool blend GI ones on the inside, and then wool ones over that. And I tape the backs of my heels before hand.

I see a lot of people are wearing cotton socks. That surprises me. There are a lot of modern non-scratchy blends or synthetics available. Some of the blends/synths are a bit more pricey, so I wouldn't use them every day, but for stuff where I'm away from my vehicle/civilization and there might be "weather," I figure the price is worth it. Don't want cotton on me in cold and wet conditions.

Have you ever tried to dry out a pair of GI socks? I'm not trying to be critical, but that's every GI's lament; GI socks take for freaking ever to dry.

I agree with Jeff that boot fit, break-in, and adjustment is key, and a good pair of insoles makes a huge difference. Perhaps this goes w/o saying, but with new boots, take 'em out enough times that they not only "break in" but also so you get used to what lacing and socks work well.

great question, i've wondered the same thing for quite some time.

in my day hikes i wear one pair of midweight hiking thorlos. rare hotspot, but adjusted the sock and all was well.

day hikes include san jacinto, san gorgonio, baldy and whitney twice - both in one day but separate months - as well as the routine 8 - 15 mile walks in the forest.

am considering short gaiters to keep the debris out.

I wear leather boots every day on the job and only wear one pair of wool-blend socks, even on days off I wear these same socks in my shoes. I do use quality footwear with aftermarket fitted orthotics also. I do not normally hike long distances in this combo, just normal in/out of the truck/boat/ATV, maybe a mile of walking at the most.

Most of my socks are the same make/type and only a couple of colours, it makes laundry matching easier. As the wool socks get thin I use them in the summer and save the newer thicker ones for the cold weather seasons.

If I know I will be hiking greater distances I wear 2 pair of socks, a thin moisture-wicking inner layer under a thicker wool sock.

If it is really cold (late fall deer hunting, ice fishing or snowmobiling) I use the same inner sock but increase the thickness of the wool outer sock and then put on felt-lined pac-type boots.

About 60 years ago my Grandfather established a knitting mill in the small town where I grew-up in Southern Ontario. He and later my uncle, produced a line of wool work socks that I have worn all my life (I am wearing them right now). You always knew what one of your gifts at Christmas was going to be! The mill closed down about 10 years ago and I think in about 5 years my supply of hoarded socks will be depleated; I will actually have to BUY wool socks for the first time!

Mike

+1 to what Jeff said.

I grew up with the whole 2 sock mentality, but I've since switched to just a single wool sock. Never saw any advantage to having a liner sock and thicker padding layer, and I inevitably ended up losing one of the liners socks. Too many socks to keep track of.

The worst thing to wear is cotton socks, especially wet cotton socks.

Bsmith,

I was just on top of Jacinto last weekend, and did Baldy last month. Have you ever done the C2C trail?

I generally wear just 1 layer. A good single layer sock such as Thorlo or Bridgedale should be perfectly fine.

Currently I am using these Thorlos;

http://www.thorlo.com/socks/hiking-socks/crew/59.php?color_id=72#A

For me they have a nice comfortable fit and have the appropriate padding in the correct places.

I will also take a pair of Goretex socks such as these;

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/PriceDrop/12/Gore_Gore-Tex_Waterproof_Socks_2007/5360031431/

together with an a spare pair or two of extra Thorlos (i.e. dry evening or trail change).

Keeping your feet dry and free from hot spots (because or boot rubbing due to incorrect boot fit) is the key to not getting blisters. If your beginning to get a hot spot its best to stop, remove your boots and apply a Compeed patch and then change to a fresh pair of socks (you may even need to wash and dry you feet properly before changing your socks. Even letting your feet cool down in a cool breeze for 5-10 minutes will help ). Let the first pair of socks dry out (attach them to your BOB or pack to air) then put your boots back on to proceed. Try to do as much before hand before letting a blister develop.

Boots and socks aren't really an area to be economical and save money. Best to go for the best boot fit, no matter the cost of the boot and try lots and lots of boots before you find the pair that fits properly. Also once your happy with the initial boot purchase it might be worthwhile purchasing a couple of spare pairs a few months later because chances are your not going to be able to get them a few years later.

Great advice. Compeed pads rock. They are much better than molefoam, duct tape or the alternatives, IMHO. Keeping my feet dry are another reason I've switched to single layer socks. My feet sweat heavily. I can usually see a clear salt line on my full thickness leather boots after a long day of hiking.



More great advice. Boots and foot care are the literal foundation of the sport.

Jeff

Thanks for all the input so far. A lot of good stuff. I was a bit surprised by the initial batch of responses since it didn't seem like things had changed much in terms of what people liked since I read those books a long time ago. But I'm glad to see input from the single-layer, modern fiber folks to provide some perspective, too.

I was just curious because in my day hikes, I just wear one pair of synthetic socks and I've never particularly felt the need for two layers, but I thought that maybe that's because I'm not really going that far. But it sounds like even serious folks go with one layer, too.

Used to always wear two pairs of socks until I tried some Dahlgren (alpaca/wool) socks on a two week long trip and from then on thats all I wear. Good stuff.

These aren't too bad- a couple hours tied to the outside of my ruck. They are basically a black athletic sock made out of a wool/cotton/poly blend. I just can't stand the feel of the nylon socks- like wearing fish skins. *shudders*

Great post and answers. I am a one sock, LLBean med weight hiking socks, or smartwool, kind of guy. Agree that boot fit and lacing are crucial.

Two socks for me. Synthetic or wool inner, and wool outer. I don't use cotton inners any more; the moisture they hold seems to soften the skin on my feet

I'm not averse to trying the jazzy new single-layer hiking socks, but then I'd have to change my whole fleet of boots.

I have never been a fan of doubling up on socks unless it was for warmth. I spend a lot of time hiking and running in crappy terrain and I found that wearing good socks, good/appropriate shoes and taking care of you feet have worked better for me then using two pair of socks. The operative phase being “worked better for me: and you may find something works better for you. This post will probably go WAY beyond the answer you were looking for… but I can’t sleep…

I have feet that blister easily; I have discovered a few techniques that work very well for keeping my feet blister free and happy. After one of my Ironman where my feet were basically destroyed; my girl friend, mom and a MD friend all bought me the same book; Fixing Your Feet, by John Vonhof which is an excellent resource. In the years since that first Ironman I have also had the opportunity to work at a number of ultra-marathons and have continually perfected my foot care techniques. Besides spending the money on GOOD socks I have found a few keys to keeping your feet happy:

• Tie your shoes. This seems simple, but tie you shoes so that your feet move as little as possible. A simple change in how I laced my shoes (see picture) made a huge difference in foot movement (and thus a reduction in blister reducing friction).
• Keep your feet clean and dry. This is often easier said than done. Here in AZ, I almost always wear lightweight/breathable running gators when out on the train for any period of time to keep the dust and rocks out. Dirty feet are more susceptible to blisters from the increased movement and friction.
• Stay hydrated in hot weather. Seriously, dehydration increases the chance of blisters.
• Use powder or lubricants. Even baby powder from the drug store works, but if you can get a powder designed for blister prevention (like “Blister Shield”) or skin lubricants designed for endurance sports (like “Body Glide”) . I always use Blister Shield for hikes/runs over an hour or so. I personally don’t use a skin lubricant, but I have seen it do wonders for ultra-marathoners.
• Pre-tape your feet. If I know I am going on a hike/run that is going to be rough on my feet, I pre-tape my feet with Kinesio-Tex tape and spray on skin adhesive. Once my feet are taped… I spray the feet completely with the pre-tape skin adhesive and “glue” my socks to my feet. The socks still come on and off really easily and this pretty much guarantees me happy feet.

These methods may be more then you need to do, and simply buying quality socks (Smartwool socks are some of the best) and keeping your feet clean and dry will be enough for most people.

I don't use double socks, however I use my 10-10-20 rule on hikes.

After the first 10 minutes of hiking, stop and adjust my boot laces.

I do the same thing again in 10 minutes then once more in 20 minutes. At this point, my boot laces are perfectly adjusted to my feet and without any slippage from the boots or them being too tight, I can walk all day without getting blisters.

For really tough hiking, like when I am elk hunting, it used to be a pair of synthetic socks beneath a pair of wool boot socks. I never like the feeling of pulling an extra pair of socks over my feet, but I like blisters even less. Then I found Thorlos, and I wear just the one pair now. They have a sock liner that you could use if you felt you really needed to, but since I went to Thorlos, I don't get hot spots, my feet feel drier, and they don't wear out as fast.

Put me down for thin dress socks/heavy wool socks as well. Seems to work well for me. I always carry a spare pair when day hiking just in case.

Another reason to go with a thin synthetic layer covered by wool is that a single pair of wool socks can go quite a while without cleaning by keeping clean layer next to your feet. One pair of wool with three pair of liners will go a long while. Clean the liners you were just wearing each night and don a pair that you washed the previous night. Nylon and CoolMax liners clean and dry easily. $.02

All the backpacking stores tell me one pair is all you need, now
that socks are so well made (smart wool and all). This works fine for me if I am on a trail, and wearing running shoes.

If I am cross country with lots of sidehill neither running shoes
nor one pair of socks cut it. I wear a pair of thin socks OVER my
smart wools, inside of ankle high boots. Better blister prevention
and cushioning from rock bruises.
If I fold down the top of the socks into the boot tops I get
better ankle support.

Interesting. What's the logic behind wearing the thin layer outside of the thick layer? Or how did you start wearing them this way?

Great input from everyone!! Perhaps the bottom line on the one vs. two sock debate is to find out what works for you. I have skinny feet, so I'll probably be wearing double socks for the foreseable future. One thing seems clear: Smartwool is really popular.

Absolutely. +1 on this technique. On long hikes this makes a lot of difference. I can swap out liners a couple of times during the day and keep my feet drier. I carry two pairs of thick outer socks and three pairs of liners. On multi-day hikes, it makes even more difference. I maintain one pair of dry liners and one pair of dry outers at all times in case I have to bivvy.

Absolutely not! You've posted great stuff. +1 on the lacing method illustrated in your photo. It makes a huge difference.

I'm going to have to check out that book that you referenced. The problem I have is not so much blisters but bruising toenails. Maybe that book will offer me some hope. Taping and using foam have proved useless (or worse).

I've had good experience with Compeed pads too, particularly on those killer back of the heel blisters. One note: they don't breathe well. I think perhaps stripping them off at the end of the day, allowing the skin to breathe overnight, and re-applying them in the morning would be a good way to go. The downside to taking them off each night is that they stick really really well, and I've often removed the surface layer of the blister when removing the pad.

Spiroflex has a really good reputation as well.

I've climbed all three "saints" (Mt San Antonio, San Gorgonio Mtn, & San Jacinto Pk), but I've never climbed San Jacinto via the C2C ("Catus to Clouds") route. Supposedly, it's one of the hardest day hikes in the United States. 10,000+ feet of gain in a day over about 17 miles (one way). It's on my list, but I'd probably just do the "Skyline" section (Palm Springs to Long Valley) which is 8000+ feet of gain over 11 miles and then ride the aerial tramway back down. The whole Catus to Clouds sounds like a bit much.

If you're in the area, the following forums may be of interest:
San Gabriel Mountains: http://sangabrielmnts.myfreeforum.org/
San Gorgonio Wildernesss: http://members.boardhost.com/sgva/
San Jacinto & Santa Rosa Mountains: http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/
San Diego Area: http://www.hikesandiego.org/

Thanks for that great post, Alan. Lot's of excellent info.

Question about that photo--what was the lacing change you were referring to? Do you mean those loops at the top that you pass the ends of the laces through?

The thin socks are synthetic (coolmax, or acrylic or nylon etc. )and don't absorb as well as wool so get clammy real
fast, they also tend to wrinkle more than thick socks.
They do wear well, so they take rubbing on the boot.

For winter cold, I found two pairs of
thick wool socks work best (with bigger boots of course).

No matter what they say about wicking fabrics, the wool
still is dryest near my skin for me. It doesn't stink like
synthetic either.

I also had the same problem, especially on downhill hikes. Backpacker magazine had a short article a few years ago on some lacing methods for specific situations. I don't think you can access the entire article but here's one part.

http://www.backpacker.com/april_2003_gear_boot_lacing_tips/gear/5245

This is one of the techniques that I've tried and it really helps a lot for downhill hiking.

http://www.hitthetrail.com/boot_lacing.php

This allows you to independently adjust the tension on different parts of the shoe, so you don't have to have it too loose or too tight. On downhill hikes, you can lace the foot area tighter to prevent my feet from sliding forward, but leave the ankle part looser to prevent cutting off circulation at the ankle. Or you could modify that technique and move the knot, if you like to have more wiggle room at your toes, but tighter around the arch, and loose around the ankle. Even the direction the laces go through the eyelets (bottom up, or top down) makes a difference.

I tend to have a lot of issues with boot fitting becaues my feet are really wide and flat. Fitting boots is an entire system, socks and boots are just one part of the equation. With the right lacing technique, good socks, and also good insoles, a lot of problems can be fixed. Also, do you use hiking poles? I think trekking poles have had the most significant impact in my hiking, more than everything else combined.




I'm definitely not in shape to do the C2C just yet, I'm thinking maybe next year. There's only a narrow window of time when the weather is agreeable, it's usually either 100 degrees at the base of the trail, or snowed out on the top of the peak.

If hiking in hot weather, don't ever wear synthetic fleece socks. Man do they stink. According to my gf, the smell was so bad it was starting to come through the boot. I've started switching all my clothes to merino wool because even in moderate activities, the synthetics really start to smell.

not yet. my hiking buddy has several times. i'm hoping in dec - before any major storms.

excellent photo of what i've heard called the "sherpa knot." i use it myself. it keeps your heels in place.

see his attachment for a great shot.

hikin jim: "The problem I have is not so much blisters but bruising toenails."

i understand this bruising is caused by your toes - especially on the downhill - being jammed into the shoe box on a repetitive basis. it's possible to lose the nails from this, i know firsthand. the two great toes.

perhaps thinner socks, perhaps larger shoes/boots with two pair of socks, perhaps different lacing - the "sherpa knot" as mentioned above w/pic by romania is also great at keeping your foot tight - that is, the foot not being able to move forwards and backwards, but not too tight that it cuts off circulation.

My issue is weird. I'm not moving around in my boots a lot, and the boots aren't too short. It's more like the toenails are rubbing on the top of the toe box of the boot. I've had it happen on innumerable pairs of shoes. The boots I've got now (Lowas) are better than my last set (Dunhams), but still having the problem.

Dec is pretty late season for C2C. Usually mid-Oct to early/mid Nov is the season. Snow's an issue in Dec, but the even greater issue is ice. If you're not trained, experienced, and practiced with an ice axe and crampons, think twice. Ask professional guide James Simon (well, actually you can't 'cause he died in an ice accident on that trail). A marine stationed at 29 Palms slipped, went over the side and went 800' down a chute last year. He lived (there is a God). Anyway, not trying to be paranoid here, but really check the conditions if you're going to try to do C2C in Dec.

Thinner insoles, or insoles with the front part trimmed off, to give your toes more vertical space? If your boots are leather, maybe you could get the toe box stretched out some, vertically?

Jeff

toe diet?

yes, you are right - i was thinking nov but typed dec.

Clearwater, I think you're saying that keeping your wool socks from getting chewed up by rubbing against the boot is the primary reason for the thin, synthetic, outer layer, right? When I was younger and played a lot of soccer, I always wore synthetic socks. Not very comfortable, but I never managed to rub a hole through them, so I agree that synthetics can take a lot of abuse.

And the clamminess and odor issues would be the main reasons against wearing synthetic as the inner layer for you.

Yeah, that might work. I'm not really sure what's going on. I've got Lowas, which are really good boots. They've got a pretty good toe box, but my "index" toenails (i.e. next to the big toe) keep taking a beating. I'm not sure if I'm rubbing on the toe box or if because I wear my boots laced so tightly that the socks are pulled tightly onto the toes on downhills. I wish I could be really certain what the exact mechanics are that are causing the problem. I don't feel anything while out hiking, but when I get home my two index toenails are all bruised. Color me clueless.

lol. I've told them stictly, "no more toe cheese for you!"

At work I've worn knee-high TED hoses under my cotton socks and they feel wonderful. I've worn them hiking as well and they work beautifully as well.

I agree, 2 socks works the best-

For Hikin_Jim, I had the same problem, and the REI guy told me I had a high instep, which pulled on my boots shape and caused the top of the toe rub. I dunno, I bought a wider pair that solved it, but a different brand so not very scientific........

I've had the problem with a couple of different pairs of boots, but maybe a differetn pair is worth trying, particularly if I can get some good advice. Some of the guys at REI are really good and know their stuff. Maybe I'll head down and talk to them. Thanks for the idea.

Here's an interesting article from the podiatrists...

http://www.aapsm.org/socknov97.html

Synthetics seemed to outperform wools. I am starting to lean towards wool as a soft shell and maybe even as underwear - doesn't stink, warm when wet... sounds good, if just a bit expensive.

Eric

I think the term "soft shell" refers more to degree of water proofness vs. breathability. For example, a really water proof (OK, resistant, GoreTex is never fully water proof) GoreTex jacket is referred to as a "hard shell." Something like wind bloc fleece is far more breathable but far less water resistant and is referred to as a "soft shell." A lot of mountaineer and climber types like the "soft shells" for winter travel. They don't get sweated out like a hard shell but offer some moisture protection from snow and the like. That's my understanding.

The mentions subungal hematoma, which I believe means bruises under the toenails, but doesn't say much about what to do about it.

I like the flame-heated paper clip to drain the hematoma, though I haven't had to do this to myself.

Eric