Hypothetical Post Election Situation

This is not a political post, but I wish to posit a hypothetical situation for discussion. PLEASE, do not get into the politics which would clearly not be allowed, just discuss the situation and response:

Some pundits have suggested that if PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. loses the election it could result in widespread race riots or civil unrest similar to the riots in 1993 following the acquittal of the police officers in the Rodney King trial. That possibility having been raised, whether legitimate or not, have you considered this possibility and are you preparing for it?

Again, please, no politics, just let's stick to the survival related issues here so the Moderators don't shut the thread down.

It looks to me like there is a plan in place for that possibility. I and my family would do the prudent thing and stay home until things settled down.


FEMA sources confirm coming martial law
Wayne Madsen
WMR
October 8, 2008

WMR has learned from knowledgeable Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) sources that the Bush administration is putting the final touches on a plan that would see martial law declared in the United States with various scenarios anticipated as triggers. The triggers include a continuing economic collapse with massive social unrest, bank closures resulting in violence against financial institutions, and another fraudulent presidential election that would result in rioting in major cities and campuses around the country.

In addition, Army Corps of Engineer sources report that the assignment of the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) to the Northern Command’s U.S. Army North is to augment FEMA and federal law enforcement in the imposition of traffic controls, crowd control, curfews, enhanced border and port security, and neighborhood patrols in the event a national emergency being declared. The BCT was assigned to duties in Iraq before being assigned to the Northern Command.

On April 3, 2008, WMR reported on a highly-classified document regarding the martial law scenario: WMR has learned from knowledgeable sources within the US financial community that an alarming confidential and limited distribution document is circulating among senior members of Congress and their senior staff members that is warning of a bleak future for the United States if it does not quickly get its financial house in order. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is among those who have reportedly read the document. The document is being called the "C & R" document because it reportedly states that if the United States defaults on loans and debt underwriting from China, Japan, and Russia, all of which are propping up the United States government financially, and the United States unilaterally cancels the debts, America can expect a war that will have disastrous results for the United States and the world. "Conflict" is the "C word" in the document. The other scenario is that the federal government will be forced to drastically raise taxes in order to pay off debts to foreign countries to the point that the American people will react with a popular revolution against the government. "Revolution" is the document’s "R word.

Actually, I am more concerned that he does get elected, and the Armed Forces are ordered to do exactly what Wildman says they are preparing for...

Nope, not political at all.

What we need is a guy like Snake Pliskin with a remote control in his hand and a string of special satellites orbiting.

This global financial mess isn't all on the US, either. I think all the major players have a hand in making this sandwich, and we are all going to have to take a bite. He who spits first loses.

If I can be philosophical, what we are seeing is part of the growing pains of the world economy. We are all still separate countries, but the major powers are inexorably intertwined.

I would not be surprised if part of the outcome of this will be something even more like a "global economy" than what we experienced the last 10 years.

It "usedta be" that all the countries were more idependent, but those days are gone.

I'm just be philosphical about it, thats all.

To answer the question more directly... I think that all of this is halfway between "likely" and "inevitable". As a country our people have grown to hate compromise, like, "Sorry, the majority of the people voted for candidate X." This is also evidenced in the discussion about the 51st state of Jefferson.

Prepare for recession crimes, limit your public exposure, batten down your personal finances, and try to be wiser than you have had to be for most of your adult life. And, get some chickens. They are so good at generating protein that scientists are trying to figure out how to get them into space as a renewable food source.

I'm also trying to get into hydropnoics, Amazon has some very interesting large kits.

Interesting word that, pundit. It's from colonial India when native surveyors walked carefully practised, methodical strides with pocketed counters ( precursors to the clik beads of today)so Britain could expand Kipling's 'White Man's Burden.'

Sadly, the modern bearers of this name seem to walk only behind gated communities with no less noble objectives. My family are multi generation Angelenos, one ancestor Corporal Patrick Kavanaugh having escaped the mass execution of San Patricio gringos in Mexico City. My grandfather told me " gates are for livestock and rich people hiding something in the bedroom."

I was blessed with a family who's business could take us to Fairfax and a kosher deli meal one day, or my first Haircut in Watts with my grandfather under the scissors of a former Tuskeegee airman who splashed Dragon Noir aftershave on me and put an extra bubblegum in my pocket 'for later' and probably starting my first notions of a PSK mentality.I had to have racism forced on me in all those black studies classes in the 60s and early 70s. I've had black people tell me I sometimes display black mannerisms and people ask me if I'm Jewish.

The two 'riots' ( I suppose other people have uprisings or civil disobediance) are probably the most manipulated social events in recent history.Somehow I have no more problem ( no more than the other law abiding black residents) going into Watts than I did Oakland while stationed in nieghboring Alameda.

It's ironic beyond comment. We had 'zoot suit' riots between young mexicans and navy personel in WW2 that become subject of plays. Watts becomes this DARK foreboding place gated community pundits don't drive through to baseball games in Chavez Ravine, another ethnic community destroyed along with targeted black communities for the freeways.I would point out the last major riot connected to a presidential election was in Chicago,perpetuated by a yippie who went on to elected office in California and married a movie star.

You want a practise run for real civil unrest? Drop by my local Starbucks. This trophy bride went berzerk because some lemon wedge thingy was dropped from the menu.I was so truamatised, I still unfairly racially profile every trophy bride around here in their Panzer grenadier SUVs as homicidal nut cases."Those people, that other guy" are like that, you know?

see the "May 9, 2007 National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive" here.

the white house does have a plan.

for me, being prepared at all times is a worthwhile effort and why i come here.

If riots break out, stay at home as much as you can. Defend your family if needed (with firearms.) And have a good supply of things to ride out the time till it settles down.

Get a police scanner, program it with all the local police & fire frequencies so you can get a head up on what is going on. A hand held scanner would be good for having access to this info during your drive to & from work.



Not living in a big city will also help. It seems these things break out in large cities more then smaller ones.


Hopefully your daily trek to work will not take you through any areas that riots break out. . if so, consider a different path to work or stay home while the riots going on.

That is not a legitimate news source.

Don’t make your survival plans dependant on infrastructure too much, it may not be there. The police may be too busy, fire fighters probably won’t come into a war-zone just to get shot at. Electricity can easily be interrupted by a bullet into a transformer. Home and cell phones can fail, be overwhelmed or be taken out by a rioter.

While these things are probably going to be short lived, they could be nasty (ask Reginald Denny) and you have to expect that the only one looking out for you is you.

Won't work on a cable phone such as provided by Time Warner

I haven't heard of any riots...

I lived in Simi Valley when the first Watts riots happened.There was no Reagan Freeway, just the old Pass Road famed for movies and Charlie Manson.I think the population was all of 25,000 back then. This perpetual candidate for the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. ticket for state assemblyman , George Margolis organised a militia. George was something, claimed to be a former USAF special OPS general ( my service file is sealed for national security) yet drew a mental disability pension from Social Security after the Army discharged him.

You could spot his dedicated 80 odd band of supporters, the old crome bumpers had this spraypainted stencil of VOTE FOR GEORGE as bumperstickers were to expensive.So on the night of the riots George and several others trailored 3 old abandoned cars up the Old Pass Road, pulled the 4 tires and rims off and put sandbags on the trunks and hoods for rifle rests.

Somebody, turned back in the early morning as daylight broke called the Sherrif. And so ended the unsung, almost forgotten defense of Simi Valley/Roarck's Rift from hoards of Shaka Zulu rioters driving all the way from downtown El A to Ventura county to destroy the citrus industry.

George actually got elected as PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. candidate the following election. And every PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. suddenly outside this 205 voter spike suddently abandoned 'REAGAN COUNTRY' and voted for the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER..Even 'Uncle Ronnie' rode by one day on horseback and said "That guy's a nutcase!"

The first black family moved to Simi that year too. I met Sally on the school summer comittee. I had this 16 OZ glass Coca-Cola that cost an outrageous .25 ( silver) with deposit. Sally said she was thirsty. I gave her my coke. All eyes watched her drink. Then Her eyes watched ME as I took it back and drank without wiping the edge or putting it down.Funny thing, Sally's dad was a LAPD Captain, one of many in that police bedroom community to this day.

I like to think I gave birth to civil equality in Simi that day, old George and his paratrooper M1 carbine notwithstanding.

Now, to assure true racial equality,I propose EVERYBODY riot.We all have enough cause to.

[/quote]

"Now, to assure true racial equality,I propose EVERYBODY riot."

That's the spirit!!!

Cool, where do I start??? You don't expect me to riot in my own neighborhood do you???

Racist much?

Basically you're saying black people are such sore losers that we should expect them to riot.

I doubt that it would happen just because a "white black man" loses the election. I guess it could possibly be a minor trigger, but if there is civil unrest, I suspect that it will be due to a combination of many other things: losing your job due to the economy, not being able to afford a tank of gas because our dollar isn't worth much anymore, not being able to afford to buy enough food, not being able to afford to buy medicine AND food, having to see your family living in your car or under a bridge, etc.

Terrorists (even local ones) are just terrorists. If they don't have one excuse, they will use another, even if they have to fabricate it. Angry, frustrated (otherwise fairly normal) people join the melee. The news media feeds it.

Anyone who has been reading these forums (or anything similar) should know by now that Preparedness is being prepared for ANYTHING. Have some food and water, some gear, and a prepared mindset that you can roll with the punches.

America is reeling from a lot of problems, due to multiple causes. Do what you can with what you've got, and get ready to jump in any direction.

Sue

I don't foresee Senator PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. losing the election, by itself, as a trigger for unrest and violence. But I do foresee the possibility of big trouble if he loses the vote count when the exit and other polls indicate that he should have won.

These has been a significant loss of confidence in the electoral process after the debacle in Florida in 2000 and the alleged electronic vote rigging in 2004. If there is a widespread perception that the election was stolen, there is likely to be widespread dissent and protest, some of which could turn violent.

The potential for violence will be increased if there is a heavy-handed official response to protests. Let us remember that it was the Chicago Police who rioted at the 1968 Democratic Convention, not the protesters.

I fear that there are some elements in the Federal government who are just itching to crack down and quash any hint of dissent or protest from the citizenry, and might seize upon this opportunity to exercise their new, self-granted "emergency powers." I am, as always, more afraid of what my government may do than I am of what my fellow citizens may do.

Jeff

Funny, OJ received a guilty verdict and the world went on as usual, no riots.

I think some are trying to stir the pot of discontent to see what will rise; as for me, life is tough enough right now dealing with reality, without trying to worry about hypothetical situations.

Pete

I agree with that 100%.

I have never heard of this source (Wayne Madsen Report). Do you have any insights into why it is not legitimate? I assume you mean it is not reliable.

I find it a challenge to efficiently suss out fact from error from propaganda in the various sources I see, and part of my being equipped includes trying to get the straight dope as well as I can. Thanks.

Not one single named source. This is the kind of stuff that gives survival sites a bad name.
The Sock

I am not familiar with this source either so the reliability factor is: unknown.

I have seen good info come from unknown sources more than once. This makes sense considering the reports of Representatives being threatened with national martial law if they failed to vote for the bail out plan.

Yes, it is very difficult to sort the propaganda from actual news reporting.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

Rep Brad Sherman appeared to have a hard time believing this as well.

The US government would be highly incompetent to say the least if they did not have contingency plans for a complete financial banking collapse and all that entailed. There is bound to be something like this floating about. I wouldn't dismiss this report so quickly.

This is a really unfair slur. He's referencing what others have said and trying to discuss hypotheticals.

Isn’t survival and planning for a potential problem down the road the what people do here?


Reality right now is that we all can buy anything we want, it’s nice weather, all your tires on your car are fine and inflated with air. No truck with hazardous chemicals crashed ¼ mile from your home, and no one is trying to kill you.


But the reality of right now may not be the reality of any given point in the future. So we think about, plan for and talk about a time when reality as we now know it may be different. An interruption of all we have now could come at any time. At some point bad weather could come along, you can get a flat tire and people can riot, and a tanker truck could crash down the street.


How is looking at riots any different then looking at other potential events?



As far as OJ one time a big riot, one time (so far) no riots.

That’s = a 50% result in a riot, not what I would call good odds.

Puts colt SAA to my chin and yells to mob " Everybody back off, or the moderator gets it." Backs away from forum crying 'Hep me! hep me!"

I need a beer.

I don't think it's unfair at all.

"Hypothetically, what if black people really are such sore losers that they'll riot if PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. loses?"

Let's try it with another group and see how it sounds.

"Hypothetically, what if the Jews are behind our economic problems?"

Sounds kinda shady, doesn't it?


Look, the whole Rodney King episode was about police getting away with a crime. It was an injustice, and when the justice system fails the common man, his only recourse is to seek his own justice.

This is not the same as losing an election. It's not a crime to get more votes than the other guy. It's democracy. And although we may not be happy with how every election turns out, we accept it, because that's the system of government we've all agreed to live under.

boy, will you be happy to know that it's better than you think!

there were NO RIOTS after oj was found NOT guilty.

and there were NO RIOTS after oj WAS found guilty.

so we're 0 for 2 in the oj riot department!

Beer is proof God loves us- Ben Franklin

I meant the Rodney King results.

If all the sources are unnamed treat it as fiction.
The Sock

I think that riots by PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. supporters are about as likely as riots by PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. supporters.

Which is to say less probable than being struck by lightning.

No, its not. The original post quotes unnamed 'pundits' alleging blacks will riot in the streets if PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. loses the election. Name these pundits. I'd like to see who has descended to this kind of undocumented, unconfirmed 'journalism'. Probably Sean Hannity or that other paragon of journalistic virtues, Pat Buchanan. If you can dredge up anyone reporting this stuff.

Same old stuff, get the white folks riled up about what black people may do.

Its really hard to keep such a discussion apolitical when the whole topic is floated out there for political purposes.