Fossett ID, other items found in Calif.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_on_re_us/fossett_search

SAN FRANCISCO - A hiker in a rugged part of eastern California found an ID and other items possibly belonging to Steve Fossett, the adventurer who vanished on a solo flight in a borrowed plane more than a year ago, authorities said Wednesday.
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The items were found Monday near the town of Mammoth Lakes, Inyo National Forest spokeswoman Nancy Upham said.

"We have some ID that has the name Steve Fossett," Mammoth Lakes police Investigator Crystal Schafer said. "They were turned in to us and are in our possession."

A Federal Aviation Administration identity card, a pilot ID and about $1,000 in cash were found in a bush, according to David Baumwohl, an attorney for the hiker who recovered the items.

Preston Morrow, who works in a Mammoth Lakes sporting goods store, took the items to the town's police department Wednesday, Baumwohl said.

The hiker initially didn't know who Fossett was, but once he found out, wanted to alert the Fossett family, Baumwohl said.

Michael LoVallo, a lawyer for Fossett's wife, Peggy, said, "We are aware of the reports and are trying to verify the information."

Fossett disappeared Sept. 3, 2007, after taking off in a single-engine plane borrowed from a Nevada ranch owned by hotel magnate Barron Hilton. A judge declared Fossett legally dead in February.

Baumwohl and Morrow tried to contact the law firm that handled the death declaration. When they weren't successful, they decided to turn everything over to the police, the attorney said.

Morrow also found a black Nautica pullover fleece, size XL, but left that at the scene. A quick search for airplane pieces before night fell didn't turn anything up, Baumwohl said.

Chances of finding remains are slim, said the attorney, who is a longtime resident of the mountain town and has followed similar cases.

"He's probably been eaten. This is not the first time this has happened," he said. "When people land in alpine wilderness, there's bears, mountain lions that'll eat the body."

This year's biggest search for Fossett focused on Nevada's Wassuk Range, more than 50 miles north of Mammoth Lakes. That search ended last month.

Mammoth Lakes is at an elevation of more than 7,800 feet on the eastern flank of the Sierra Nevada, where peaks top 13,000 feet.

Fossett made a fortune trading futures and options on Chicago markets. He gained worldwide fame for more than 100 attempts and successes in setting records in high-tech balloons, gliders, jets and boats. In 2002, he became the first person to circle the world solo in a balloon. He was inducted into the National Aviation Hall of Fame in July 2007.

He also swam the English Channel, completed an Ironman Triathlon, competed in the Iditarod dog sled race and climbed some of the world's best-known peaks, including the Matterhorn in Switzerland and Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania.

It is interesting how the wallet and the fleece was found with no signs of blood stains from an animal attack or what have you. If you were on foot and the nights get cold there, the last thing you would do is leave behind thermals. The wallet is extra weight and can be left at the crash scene but if they found that with no wreckage, something doesn't sound right. They will probably take that point and create a circular grid search start and then probably try to acquire something, foot prints, wreckage, bones from after a bear or lion has had a dinner or something. You would think out of all the equipment we have someone would have found something.

He took off a thermal layer at the warmth of the day, I don't see anything all that odd about it. The wallet wasn't needed, so he would have put it with the layer. I hope the site was marked, so that interested parties might try to locate a camp site.

Per the article he took a friend to the site Tuesday which was when they found the sweater. Search should start this afternoon.

I can see taking it off during the day, but would you leave it behind? If he was going to come back and get it, wouldn't you mark the territory with something (not your wallet)? Why leave the wallet there, if he was being chased by a cat or bear, you would think there would be signs of panic, broken sticks, weeds pushed over, foot prints or something. If he was going to leave a clue you would think he would have made a flag out of the f lease and put the wallet under the flag. I don't know, with out much detail it's hard to say. Steve is a long time survivor and I would expect a lot more from him if he was alive. He's the type that is usually prepared and he has a lifetime experience in a lot of adventures. If he was alive after the crash, I think we would see more clues of his attempt to self rescue. I don't see the wind blowing that wallet there, it had to of fell from the plane or someone put it there. If an animal carried it there there would be teeth marks in the wallet and I doubt the fleece would be there in one piece either. The fleece however isn't known if it is his or not but it was in the same area.

If the wallet and fleece were there, Steve was alive (assuming they identify the fleece as his) and he probably would have activated his watch with the homing frequency. At that location it probably wouldn't have been picked up anyway but there would be tracks near by one would think.

It just sounds a little fishy that's all. We will probably find more out in the next few weeks and it may shed some light on what happened.

He wasn't carrying the watch. As for signs of a struggle, remember that it's been almost 13 months since Fossett took his last flight. A good snow, melt and a season of new growth would pretty much destroy any natural signs of a struggle.

My guess is whatever little is left of his remains are near where the ID and fleece pullover were found. Just a guess, it would be good for the family to get closure.

It's been more than a year, I wouldn't expect tracks to last that long. I would be surprised if they found anything. Even a plane could be overgrown in that length of time. I could be wrong though.

I seem to remember reading something after the Kim tragedy about hypothermia causing a condition that makes the sufferer feel as if they're overheated.

As mentioned previously, taking off layers to prevent one's self from overheating is another reason, and stress or exercise in any temperature could cause sweat.

I don't know that these are explanations in this case, I'm just relating the idea that there could be any number of reasons for a person to take off clothing in a survival situation.

Good point, I forgot it had been that long since Steve crashed (time fly's), I guess any signs of evidence would be nil (tracks, blood,etc..) The fleece I was thinking would be near the body if he had it with him. I know as we dress in layers we shead cloths when hot and put them on when cold but the point I was trying to make is if you had warm cloths and you know it gets cold at night, you don't leave those cloths behind.

Kinda of like if you were in the desert and you had a gallon of water and drink half of it, you don't poor the other half out because you don't need it at that time.

The article's point was a deceased victim would be consumed, not that Fosett died from a large animal attack. One of the most bizaar sights i've ever seen involved recoveriong the body of a meat butcher who succumbed to a heart attack. His J 3 Cub made a more or less intact landing. The problem was convincing several brownies to leave the area, dining on multiple packages of processed meat scattered over the crash site.
As with most mysteries, this is a new and vital clue. It's best to wait and see.

+1 Bingo

Falcon, if you leave deer carcass in the woods and come back in six months, you'll be lucky if you find the skull. This far out, broken branches might stick out if they are in a systematic pattern, but prints and soft plants, no chance.

I've taken off my pack and left it someplace that was visible to me many times before going off to get water or take a picture or take a leak. If he got injured say, 50, 60 yard away from where he stashed his fleece and wallet, it is possible they aren't going to find anything at this point except maybe some clothing.

Reading the article, I didn't really get a good feel for the immediate area. I might also look up in trees- for all we know, he tried to climb a tree to get a better feel for where he was, slipped, and got hung up. *shrugs* Lovely thought. Pure speculation and what-iffery, but not outside the realm of conceivability.

Your right ironraven, I wasn't thinking of how long it has been since he was lost. Plus I've left things as well in a certain area only to find out I had to search real good to find it because I never marked my travel path very good.

We know nothing about the terrain here - most likely Fossett died on impact. Wiley Post, right?

Given it's near Mammoth Lakes, I'd assume it's pretty much like the rest of the Sierra Nevada range: lots of granite, pine trees, not too bad of undergrowth. Probably high 70s in the day, 50s at night (in the summer). Good skiing in winter Look at my avatar pic for the terrain (it's Mt Whitney, about 50ish miles south of Mammoth)

But, yeah, the specifics we don't really know.

I was up in that area in July. It's unbelievably steep in spots. Here's a link to a photo if anyone is interested: http://picasaweb.google.com/jim.barbour/MammothLakesCAJuly2008#5228917876269839218 The general area where the items were found is in the far distance on the right hand side of the photo. This area has all sorts of nooks and crannies; there's no one point from which one could get a really comprehensive view of the area (save perhaps from an aircraft). Mt. Ritter, which is only a couple of miles from where the items were found, is over 13,000' in elevation and still has glaciers to this day (yes, glaciers in California).

Just to give you an idea of the steepness, the Eastern Sierra goes from 14,500' at Mt. Whitney to 3700' at nearby Lone Pine (the gateway to Whitney) in the space of perhaps ten (or fewer) air miles.

Mt hypothesis is that Fosset was flying his plane low down the small canyons and river beds. For some reason he flew into one of the steep walls of one of them. The impact caused the near vertical face to collapse on top of the wreckage concealing it from the searchers.

Terrain collapsing over a wreck is in without precedent. It happened to a plane that flew into a mountain in the Andes where part of a glacier covered it. It has, until recently, when parts started to come out of the bottom of the glacier, been a mystery what happen to the plane.

The Fosset crash site, deep in a steep walled canyon and covered by a rockfall, is well concealed. At some later date rains came and the canyon experienced a flash flood and washed the fleece and wallet out of the wreckage and downstream. The flood waters, channeled withing the canyon initially, spread out as it hit flatter terrain leaving the wallet and fleece in an are without any obvious stream bed. So, to the hiker, they appeared on flat terrain without any clue of how they got there.

Who knows? Could be. I think it's still best to wait for more details. This article states that the items were found east of Minaret Mine: http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/site/content/view/1355/48/

Minaret Mine is at point "A" on this map: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=37.67479,-119...t%20Ritter%20CA For those of you who have been out there before, I've marked a couple of well known landmarks, the Minarets (Point "B") and Mt. Ritter (Point "C"). If I recall correctly, the Minaret Mine hasn't been worked recently (they were active in the 30's).

The search area, now that some of Steve Fossets personal possesions have been found, looks very difficult indeed.

Assuming that Steve Fossets aircraft wreckage is nearby, perhaps the following location might be of interest.

37.687282N 119.187700W on Google Earth.

Is there a wing sticking out of the snow on the side of Mount Ritter?

Angel I concur that tracks likely won't be found but altitude and climate preserves artificial materials (fleece, airplane fabric) really well. The plants grow very slowly so the plane won't be overgrown. (it could if it were in the deep South but not in the Sierra) It might be embedded in snow though.


See my website : http://coloradowreckchasing.com for indications of how well wreckage lasts at altitude.

I don't think it will take long to solve the mystery now.

Just FYI- the card labelled SSA with his name on it is from the Soaring Society of America - a glider organization that recognizes records in gliding. Fossett set several glider records during his career.

They are now reporting that they may have spotted some wreckage from the air. This may bring some answers.

CNN is now report it is indeed the plane of Steve Fosett, but no human remains found yet.

Good graphic, Am_Fear_Liath_Mor.

Sounds like they really believe they've found the wreckage: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4907G820081002

They say the plane went head on into the ground. The fuselage is completely disintegrated. If he was still in the plane when it crashed, there wouldn't be much left of him either. Now, if he parachuted down safely he may be living it up somewhere.

They found the Citabria wreckage, which should provide some closure. Now they're looking for signs of Fossett (bones).

+1 on the finding of the aircraft bringing closure to the family. They said the impact was not survivable but if the plane had crashed another way allowing Steve to get out of it, Steve would have done his best to survive that situation. Steve is a true survivor and the story will probably unfold more based on the impact damages as to how the crash occurred. He was a very strong pioneer to the aviation community and I kinda wished I could have met him years back when he brought his air balloon for helium testing at my old job, I was on nights and he came in on days. I've heard nothing but good things from my friends that met him and that's why I believed if he could have made it out of that crash, he would still be here to day. He was a true great survivor.

Here are some photos of the wreckage: http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/site/content/view/1358/48/

Bear, cougar, coyote, small animals looking for a bite to eat. Why would you be surprised?

It had sounded at first like the shirt and the ID were found in a relatively neat bundle. Assumption based on partial data.

I don't know enough about the aircraft in question, but if the engine was ejected, odds are so was he.

ABC Radio is reporting that the NTSB says his body was found in the wreckage.

I read last year that he was soaring with a friend in New Zealand a few years ago and passed out for several minutes. He my have had an undisclosed medical problem.

Repeat of PSM's post with link.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gfmXbQn-RFLHSjd8_s23ytiM6OVAD93IL48O1

NTSB: Remains found at Steve Fossett wreckage site

19 minutes ago

MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. (AP) — Federal investigators say they have found body parts amid the wreckage of a missing adventurer's airplane in the mountains of eastern California.

The National Transportation Safety Board said Thursday that searchers found enough at the crash site of Steve Fossett's plane to provide coroners with DNA.

National Transportation Safety Board acting Chairman Mark Rosenker won't say exactly what searchers found. But he says it was not surprising how little they uncovered, considering how long it had been since the crash.

I bet his wife would love to stick this finding into the insurance company's faces. At one time they (insurance companies) were saying that his death was faked. The preliminary findings looked very suspicious but I guess it was a freak of nature this played out the way that it did. Well at least this will finally close the last chapter in his life. God speed Steve,God speed......................

Meanwhile thousands of other crash sites remain undiscovered throughout the world with less known names. Fossett could be admired both for having fun on a grand scale, and the ability to have that fun.But to put things in perspective, he no more contributed to aviation advances than all race car drivers since the invention of the rear view mirror.
Lindberg was preceeded by Alcock and Brown, themselves eclipsing the first atlantic flight by navy Seaplane. Lindberg himself wrote how groundbreaking those naval ( and one Coast Guard) pilots were, flying with far less technological advances carried in his small Ryan aircraft.
Antoine de Saint- Exupery's death was long a mystery. Rumour of suicide and other theorys floated around for years until the wreckage was found, and a few assembled facts gave the most plausible, and still sad explanation.
In the end,with or without fancy watches, reputations or money, ' You can't cheat the mountain.' Fossey or Kennedy, there is a time to sit in the airport cafe drinking coffee. And when no answers are forthcoming, just do what french mothers told their children when the WW1 ace georges Guynemer vanished. " He flew so high he couldn't come back down."

"he no more contributed to aviation advances than all race car drivers since the invention of the rear view mirror"

I would have to disagree with that statement Chris.

The 3 players that have contributed a lot to the world are:

Burt Rutan -engineer,The father of newer composite aircraft design

Steve Fossett -test pilot and explorer

Richard Branson -adventurer and explorer who contributes to the advancements in environmentally friendly aircraft and space exploration to name a few.

Steve Fossett's adventures has give much data and improved design and safety for aircraft as well as space craft. His little balloon flight helped us study the violent wind currents at higher altitudes and are paving away to make transcontinental flight at a 80000 foot flight level more of a reality. The space shuttle for instance is a lot of composites aboard and Burt Rutan has helped Nasa out many of times overcome composite fatigue, leading into smart metal and smart avionics. Through all three of these players, the pilot, engineer and the financier have contributed so much to the industry. Steves feed backs from his solo flight around the world on a tank of gas to high altitude balloon flights have given Nasa a wealth of data to help improve on everything from aircraft, spacecraft, and on and on.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/news/releases/2006/release-20060109.html

Steve Fossett visiting the Kennedy Space Center in the Atlantic GlobalFlyer for covering a distance of 20,373 miles starting at the center.

The Insurance companies were trying everything not to have to pay out, but in the end they will have too.

Here's some photos of in the hanger building the sub orbiter from Branson. Steve did most of the test piloting.

Rutan, Rutan, Rutan.

Brilliant engineer. He doesn't think out of the box, he re-designs the box into a composite sphere ten times lighter, ten times stronger and ten times cheaper than the government spends for just the feasibility study.

Lousy businessman. That's where Fossett and Branson come in.

"Federal investigators say they have found body parts amid the wreckage of a missing adventurer's airplane in the mountains of eastern California."

Darn, and there goes a perfectly good conspiracy theory! Wait, maybe he put another body in the wreckage, was picked up by a helicopter, and is living in Fiji. Yeah, that has to be it!

As long as this is just crackerbarrel talk and I don't have to have a solid grasp of the issues, I think by focussing on Rutan, Fossett and Branson (really?? Branson??) you're showing a lack of historical perspective. I think of Wiley Post, Boeing and Robert Watson-Watt. Post flew solo around the world in a plane made of plywood - try to get such a craft certified by the FAA today, much left aloft and flying around the world. He invented early pressurized suits. Boeing built, well, Boeing, and incredible planes like the B-17 and 747. Watson-Watt invented radar, which has done more to improve survivability among pilots and passengers than all the rest. And behind each of these men are probably thousands of more anonymous engineers who did the hard work solving tough problems. It's like the field of medicine, hard to pick just three.

My personal aviator favorite is my wife's uncle Bob, who before he flew for TWA was a barnstormer. He said on hot evenings they would buy crates of tomatoes, take up their crafts and fly over the houses of ill repute in the red light districts of East St Louis, and bomb the girls sitting out on door steps. He was also known to never let a dog fly in the cargo hold, especially on the old Constellations, he would take them into the cockpit and ride with the crew.

Apparently, the remains recovered have been identified as Fossett's.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/11/04/fossett-remains-dna.html

There goes a great episode of Without a Trace!

No, I got it figgered out, the missing $10 mil was used like this:

>> $3 mil to get his clone perfected so he could send it up in the plane and thus have a viable body with traceable chromosomes
>> $2 mil to buy Saddam's yacht with the rocket launcher (since the bidding was boycotted)
>> $1 mil to create the media furor to have Saddam's yacht boycotted
>> $5 mil to live on while hanging out at Branson's tax exile place in the Bahamas until his wife's clone finishes baking in the clay oven (I know, that's a million too much, you forget the money he made selling IndyMac shares short). Then they are both free and clear!

Ingenious! And you say he's no innovator...........