Pet meds for humans?

Is this too good to be true? Non-prescription antibiotics?

Fish Mox Forte is 500 mg capsules of Amoxicillin. I remember Amoxicillin. The doctor once prescribed it to my son.

No my brothers got some.

Lee

pet meds are normally not as refined or ground as fine as humans require in order to be safe.

+1 -- Agreed entirely. Even in cases of last resort, converting dosages can be complicated and the delivery mechanisms can vary enormously. It would be complicated business figuring out what dosage you're actually receiving and how quickly and that can be very dangerous.

This is likely one I wouldn't pursue without advance knowledge. There are drugs that are identical in their human and for example, dog versions, but if you don't know this, you're playing with fire.

I'm always amazed at the willingness of many to risk their health to save a buck, yet those same people wouldn't be caught DEAD (sorry, bad choice of words) using a no-name brand part for their souped up car. I have a brother who actually fits that bill. To each his own, I guess.

I'm not looking to save a buck. I'm looking to get my hands on something that I can't get any other way. Something that could possibly save my life one day.

There are MANY uninsured / underinsured Americans who are desperate for the drugs they need but cannot pay high prices for them. I know of several people who routinely seek medicines intended for animals.

Welcome to America, the land of "plenty".

Can't get any other way?????? You can get viagra and Lortab and all sorts of incredibly controlled drugs on the 'net, and you can't find a way to get antibiotics? Of course, you may need to have the drug tested as to its potency and purity, but hey, amoxicillin is amoxicillin, right? Sand, snot, whatever else they put in it, who cares? You're just *ingesting the drug*, no biggie.

Since you are not looking to save a buck, just go to your primary care physician, pay him the copay for seeing him, and ask him straight up: "How does one obtain a prescription of a broad spectrum antibiotic for life-threatening emergencies for my expedition to _____________?" Many physicians have samples that they give away for free. But since you're not trying to save a buck, be sure to refuse the free sample and insist on a prescription that you can fill at your local pharmacy. If you're not going out of the country (to the third world), it will probably be more difficult to convince the prescriber that you will be in a position where you have to save your own life one day by taking a course of antibiotics. It would be up to you to convince him/her. Are you undertaking very long expeditions to summit peaks? Visiting third world countries? If it's just to add to your first-aid kit and you are not involved in serious pursuits like the above, the prescriber may not say "yes."

BTW, Just how much training do you have in self-diagnosing your infection? Or were you going to wing it and take it just as a precaution?

Are you aware that M.D.'s, with all their expertise and access to advanced labs, etc. sometimes have to try another antibiotic because the first one failed? That should give you pause to think.

Yeah. Let me try this amoxicillin for this bone infection! That oughta do it!

I wouldn't bother with stuff for fish, but for farm animal grade meds, I know a lot of people who've done it. The joys of going to an tech/ag focused college AND highschool. For what it is worth, I wouldn't try it becuase I don't know the meds well enough, even with the PDR at my side. The big thing would be concentration, not total volume, and the inactive agents. But honestly, when I took my first look at Paragon's STOMP, my first thought was that he'd gone through a farm supply place for quite a bit of it. (Right, wrong, doesn't really matter- still a damn good kit.)

That being said, instruments, dressings and the like are pretty much the same. Vetwrap is bulker than I like to carry, but it is nice stuff. And I'd bet money that a lot of the suture kits you find on eBay saw the inside of a feed store.

I am not recommending this to anyone else, but

I used clorohexiderm that I got for one of my dog's injuries until it was gone to clean minor cuts and scrapes.

It sounds like you're arguing with yourself there. The whole point of this thread is that these medications aren't just given out to anyone who asks for them.



Are you aware that I'm talking about emergency use? That means I would only consider taking these meds if I was already in deep sh-t. I'm not asking you to take them, so chill out.

Bag Balm

Nope, no Farm & Fleet or online pharmacies involved. The Levofloxacin (Levaquin) 500 mg were samples that my physcian gave to me during an office visit while the Ciprofloxacin (Cipro) 500 mg was a $4.00 prescription that I filled at Walmart (he did not have any Cipro samples on hand at the time).

Jim

This is one of those topics where I feel very torn. Although not manufactured and formulated the same as antibiotics for humans, pet antibiotics do have the same active ingredients and in an emergency, might be lifesaving.

On the other hand, I fear that any sort of approval by me or other members may lead some people reading these comments to take these antibiotics whenever they feel like it and to use them inappropriately. I'm not saying that you will, CityBoyGoneCountry, but someone else may also think, "Gee, the doc gave me X last year for Y symptoms. My wife is having those same symptoms...maybe I'll just give her some of X pills from the pet store so she doesn't have to go through the hassle of taking time off from work to go to the doctor." That kind of self-diagnosis and self-medication can lead to all kinds of trouble--both to the individual, but also to the greater public at large.

Individual harm can come from obvious problems like a totally incorrect diagnosis of the problem even though you think you're treating something, using the wrong antibiotic that has no effect on your infection, bad side effects from the wrong dosage, possibly life threatening allergic reactions, etc. At the community level, things like the spread of antibiotic resistant bugs from misuse of antibiotics is a large and ever-present challenge to all healthcare providers.

Antibiotics in particular, really need to be used only in appropriate cases and taken with care. We don't have the luxury of prescribing them as liberally as in the past. The drug companies aren't cranking out new classes of antibiotics fast enough to keep up with the ever-increasing antibiotic-resistant strains. It's possible that we will enter a new age, within our lifetimes, where fear of dying from infections is again something commonplace. We occasionally got a taste of that fear from time to time, for example when HIV/AIDS first made headlines, during the anthrax attacks, or during the latest avian flu scare. Imagine that kind of fear all of the time.

Cityboy- I'm surprised you didn't mention my tip on getting the meds from the 'net. If the whole point of the thread is how difficult it is to acquire these meds, why not go the easiest route?

Not arguing with myself at all. Just trying to give you a helpful tip in acquiring the antibiotic. Would you rather me say that he'll give you them no matter what?

Yes, I'm aware you are talking about emergency use. I would *really* be concerned about you using them routinely.

I'm more concerned with your possible lack of knowledge in their use...and your naivete in the consequences of their misuse.

Well said Arney and I fully agree with you. MRSA is a very real threat in just about any hospital these days.

Well stated!

Actually, I was thinking parts of your IV set, the hypodermics and your suture kits.

Thanks Nighthiker! I put permetherin on my boots for anti-tick, I'll look for this at my local feed stores.

I second the suggestion to talk to your doctor. Worst they could do is say no. Just don't be stupid about what you ask for (antibiotics is a lot different than a narcotic pain killers for example) and be straight up with them why you want them (remember, Docs have a lot of experience with people seeking controlled substances). Besides, preparedness isn't something we should be ashamed of.

My Doc actually seemed to perk up at my disclosure about disaster preparedness.

I recall a thread here a long time back where it was asserted that there are only a couple of meds out that when you really need, you really need (individual Rx meds aside) -- EPI pens and antibiotics.

This of course assumes you have an ongoing and good relationship with your doctor. If you don't have one, I'd suggest getting one. Think of it is another exercise in preparedness. :-)

-john

I'm not sure if you're aware of just how condescending you are being. I'm not a child. I'm well aware of the risks involved. But I'm also aware of the risks involved in doing nothing when you're stuck miles away from medical care with a serious illness.

O.k. sorry. Good luck with it!

I have a friend who used to work in the 'novel anti-bacterials' section of a Big Pharma company. This section was shut down because the company couldn't make any money selling curative drugs-you sell a few of them, the patient recovers,and doesn't buy any more of them. Emphasis was switched to anti-depressant drugs, creating a future where the physician says ' We cannot cure your illness, but we have some new drugs you can take so that the illness doesn't make you sad...'. They can sell anti-depressants, anti hypertensives, and cholesterol-reducing meds to the same patient for a long time. So methicillin resistant staph aureus (MRSA) and vancomycin resistant enteroccus (VRE) are becoming more common, and free-market economics doesn't do much to encourage research in this direction.

Intentional use by humans of vet drugs is common enough to be a research topic, and many of the vet drugs are made by the same companies on the same assembly lines as the meds labeled for human use.

We probably should not choose to stop talking about this stuff because readers might make bad decisions based upon the discussion. We spend lots of time discussing firearms and edged tools: bad decisions with either will generally be more harmful quicker than ill-advised attempts at self-medication.

RE Pet Antibiotics...

I always wonder why Vet amoxicillin is still bubblegum flavored. How about making it say, Tuna flavored? I'd bet my cats would fight less

"I always wonder why Vet amoxicillin is still bubblegum flavored. How about making it say, Tuna flavored? I'd bet my cats would fight less."

Why do you THINK it's bubblegum flavored? Yep, it's because it's a human product. Many/most of those animal meds are just relabeled human meds, probably produced in the same factory, just labeled differently. The rip-off pharmaceutical companies probably live in fear that people will figure that out.

Talking to your own doctor about antibiotics and such is a far better idea than guessing. He/She knows what would be a good broad-spectrum antibiotic for a wide range of problems. There are quite a few bacteria-specific ABs out there, and if you're using the wrong one, you're wasting what you've got. Just be prepared to pay for it out of your own pocket, as your insurance probably won't, and the same for regularly-used prescription drugs. I talked to my Mom's doctor about this, and she suggested that she write an extra prescription for each of her meds, we buy them without involving the insurance co. She would rotate her supply and always place an order for her renewal prescriptions at the usual time. This enabled her to have an extra 30-day supply of fresh meds.

And re: medicine expiration dates, here is an interesting article:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/460159

Sue

+1 on talking to your doctor.

Walmart has placed just about every antibiotic that you would ever need (other than azithromycin) on their $4 Prescription Program for a 30-day supply. Since most antibiotics are generally only prescribed for 7, 10, or 14 days, it's not like you're going to need more than that, so $4.00 sounds like a bargain.

If/when they expire, take them back to your doctor for proper disposal (never, ever flush medications down the toilet - especially antibiotics) and ask for a new script at that time.

Jim

To ask a second age old question "do you always answer rhetorical questions?"

People were saying that Vet meds were of lower quality/made with different fillers - wouldn't they then make them Tuna flavored

Silly guys. Bubble gum is cheaper than tuna. Hence, lower quality ingredients. Shesh. And you guys didn't figure that out.

-john

"Bubble gum is cheaper than tuna. Hence, lower quality ingredients."

NOT adding the bubblegum flavor would be even cheaper.

Sue

A dogs gotta draw the line somewhere!

-john

OK, steak flavored Amoxicillin - or better, unflavored, and the vet can add what you want - heck, a friend's cat LOVED catelope