Urban E&E Kit

Posted by: aligator

Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 12:27 AM

'Evenin Ladies and Gents. I don't know where this should go, or if it's appropriate for this site, if not please relocate or delete.
I am a born and raised country boy, a student of wilderness skills, and admittedly don't know much about urban survival. I find myself working in the Bronx as an RN at a trauma center. I can envision scenarios, natural or man made, martial law or war, where I would need to get home, but it might be in my best interest to keep a low profile from both the general population as well as the administration (not interested in being sent to a shelter). It might be closer to evading and escaping then wilderness survival or wilderness skills. I'm not suggesting or entertaining anything illegal, just wondering what different tools, equipment, and knowledge would facilitate such a journey?
I thinking a medium sized neutral color, non descript pack, and a small belt pouch type container with just the bare minimum. The pouch would live on my belt, I would hopefully have access to my pack and would be in good shape if I could get to my car.
I've never been in the military, nor raised in the city, so I don't know what would be required, or handy to have available.
Thanks in advance. Regards, Jim
Posted by: BobS

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 12:45 AM

Donít stick out of the crowd. Look at what the people around you carry (briefcases, small travel bags ) and replicate those for your storage containers. Donít put on a big backpack that looks out of the city element.
Posted by: epirider

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 12:50 AM

The first thing to do is ditch the scrubs. Soon as you are recognized as medical personnel, you would be put in a place that probably not where you want to be. The next thing I could think of would be to have a stash of cash sewn into the belt pack. Have a map of routes that could be utilized to get (eventually) where you do want to be. This would include alternate routes, bus times, subway times, dangerous areas, etc... I would also think that you would want to make practice runs of each route as well. If you are driving, get one of those foldable bikes that can be stashed in your car should traffic come to a standstill in the evac. I dont know if this is possible or feasable but if there was a place you could stash a small bug-out bag in the hospital (locker, locked trunk in the boiler room, whatever) so you could have a more then better chance of a successful evac from your work. Have one in your car as well. One is good but if tshtf, and you could not get to it have a back up close at hand. Take them both if possible. Just my opinion...
Posted by: aligator

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 01:55 AM

Thanks for the responses.
BobS, You see allot of black/coyote day packs around here.
Sockpuppet, I understand the concept of "the gray man" and your idea of "customizing" your clothes is interesting. Kind of like the Scottie (?) vest/shirt/jackets?
Epirider, I plan to loose the scrubs ASAP, and keep "appropriate"(clothing as your first line of shelter), and common "looking" clothes and well broken in boots close by.
I understand the concept of BOB, but wondered if there was anything of value in the concept of avoiding, or actively evading, ANY contact, and any additional tools, knowledge, or techniques, related to that which might improve your prospects of successfully getting where ever you need to go? Elsewhere people have suggested night vision/thermal imaging, lock picks, window punches, etc. I'm not sure I'm ready to go quite that far, but like the man said"if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough. Thanks again. Regards, Jim
Posted by: comms

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 02:16 AM

I'm not quite sure what your getting at. This site is for preparedness not evading an enemy threat foriegn or domestic.

As a first responder its your obligation to help as you can in an emergancy situation like say Katrina or NY911. Blackwater or the feds are not going to force you into service.

Don't think too much covert hush hush into your bug out plan. Plenty of us here have lived that sort of lifestyle as an occupation. The advise you have got so far will keep you alive and get you home.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 02:25 AM

You should have maps of the local areas, and the areas between where you are and where you would want to go.

I drive from Centralia, WA to Seattle (85 mi) or down to Portland, OR (95 mi) regularly, and as driving entertainment, I think about what I would do if a large earthquake hit. If I were fortunate enough to be on the north side of the Columbia River, I could probably make it home with my 4WD work vehicle in a day or two. Or three.

If I were in Seattle when the same quake hit, I'm afraid that I would be SOL for seeing home soon. It would probably take me at least ten days to get there, or even more if I had to do much backtracking. And youbetcha, it would have to be on foot. Downed overpasses, abandoned vehicles, tons of fallen debris... yuck!

I have a company gym bag in the back that contains a few tools, a first aid kit, emergency blankets, RR crew kits (handiwipes, paper towels, TP, plastic bag) and I've added a few things of my own to fill it out (they didn't even have any duct tape in there, can you imagine? :o)

I usually have a case or two of bottled water in the back, and leave an insulated nylon jacket there, too.

I carry a backpack with all my maps, granola bars and nuts, and some of the regular stuff listed here at ETS, but it isn't full. It WOULD be full by the time I set out, after I added some of the company's and the RR's supplies grin.

TIP: Try to find maps that show the RR lines. I don't know about other places, but there seem to be fewer overpasses, bridges and tunnels where the tracks go. Less traffic, too. Travel along the RR right-of-way on one side of the tracks or the other, not ON the tracks.

I cannot emphasize it enough: STAY OFF THE TRACKS! STAY OFF THE TRESTLES! I don't care what you think the trains are doing, STAY OFF THE TRACKS! And be aware that the trains have a 3-foot overhang on either side of the tracks that could nail you, too.

For you guys who know what hobos were, they not only hitched rides on the trains (very hard now, and very dangerous), but they traveled along the tracks so they wouldn't be bothered, they knew the tracks went somewhere, even in the desert.

I am tempted to take Amtrak from Seattle to Portland, and make notes on my maps as to RR yards (could be trouble there, esp if disaster might involve terrorists), overpasses and trestles, rivers, swamps and low-lying areas that a tsunami might affect (a possible after-affect of an earthquake). Of course, I would probably be dragged off the train as a suspected terrorist... laugh

Another thing that could make or break your escape is knowing (or not) what you are likely to encounter along the way. Doing a dry run by car could be well worth the time and gas. Surprises during/after a disaster could be a .... well.... a disaster.

Don't depend on just one plan. Try to give yourself several options, several directions, several targets. Sometimes getting home right away just isn't possible. Aim for friends or relatives.

The Bronx... sheesh!

Sue
Posted by: epirider

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 02:28 AM

Comms, I agree with you. I have dedicated my life to serving others in THEIR time of need. In defence of Alligator, I can not save anyone else if I can not save myself. I am not sure if that is what he was getting at, but that is the question he posted. I would probably take a step back from the situation first (it may be a HUGE step) but anyone that knows me can attest that I will be one of the first ones back in there as soon as I assess the situation.

Alligator, the only one that can say what "equipment or supplies" you may need can only be determined by you and how you perseive the event you are envisioning. Try different things - keep the stuff that makes sence, ditch the stuff that doesn't. Do a little Nursing critical thinking and you will come out fine.
Posted by: lukus

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 02:30 AM

There's kind of an old saying about the best way to get away with something is to look like you belong there. I work in the construction industry and have to occasionally go to job sites to check layouts or measure as-built diminsions. I carry an orange safety vest and a hard hat for those times. An orange safety vest and hard hat is the "uniform" for construction workers, highway workers, and all of the public utilities from water/wastewater to subway maintenance. You'd be amazed at the places you can walk into without a second glance or question.

In a SHTF situation you could probably walk out of areas that are being shut down just because you look like you have a job to do.....you look like you're there to help fix the situation.
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 02:41 AM

SockPuppet, as far as customizing your clothes, have you looked at Duluth Trading Company's Presentation Jacket? It comes in several materials and colors, and already has a ton of pockets sewn into them.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 02:42 AM

"An orange safety vest and hard hat is the "uniform" for construction workers, highway workers, and all of the public utilities ... You'd be amazed at the places you can walk into without a second glance or question."

Don't forget the clipboard and the PO'd expression.

Sue
Posted by: BobS

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 03:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Susan
Don't forget the clipboard and the PO'd expression.

Sue



LOL that was funny!
Posted by: Todd W

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 03:17 AM

Originally Posted By: comms
I'm not quite sure what your getting at. This site is for preparedness not evading an enemy threat foriegn or domestic.

As a first responder its your obligation to help as you can in an emergancy situation like say Katrina or NY911. Blackwater or the feds are not going to force you into service.

Don't think too much covert hush hush into your bug out plan. Plenty of us here have lived that sort of lifestyle as an occupation. The advise you have got so far will keep you alive and get you home.


It sounds like he wants to be prepared to get home in case of a natural disaster, bombing, etc. I don't see him saying he's trying to escape the X country that's invading and shooting at him....

Covert hush hush? Sounds like he wants to blend in to me...

Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 03:21 AM

Or, farther down the construction/highway maintenance food chain, a shovel to lean on...
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 10:22 AM

A small black, grey or dark color pack blends in just about everywhere. LL Bean and Jansport are are basically anonymous brand names, and there are plenty of others that don't slap their logo on the outside.

As for the what... cash, SAK or LM, flashlights, PPE, spare socks, real shoes with GOOD insoles, water bottles, rain gear and something other than scrubs.
Posted by: aligator

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 11:01 AM

Ladies and Gents, Thank you for the responses.
I'm just asking what all you would recommend for the content and associated requisite knowledge of an urban escape/BOB/get home bag. Do some folks include weapons and other martial accoutrement's into their BOB? How about some things that some folks would consider B&E tools? How about a healthy fixed blade? I think we would all agree that in some venues, the things some might carry, would give some people apoplexy, and get us arrested by others (just try getting into a shelter with even a SAK for example).
As stated, I'm not looking to play Joe spy, or Joe commando, or do anything that would be illegal. I'm just asking about how urban scenarios would differ from wilderness, any different knowledge required and any suggestions you might have for inclusion in a BOB specific to the urban environment.
As to my professional dedication, I think how I have spent most of my life attests to my thought processes. That said, as a father, my first responsibility is to my family. Once they are safe and secure, what ever that may involve, then I can go to work. Nursing/EMS, is what I do/did, father/husband/friend, is what I am. I hope this clears things up.
Regards, Jim
Posted by: duckear

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Susan
"An orange safety vest and hard hat is the "uniform" for construction workers, highway workers, and all of the public utilities ... You'd be amazed at the places you can walk into without a second glance or question."

Don't forget the clipboard and the PO'd expression.

Sue



mumbling to yourself is the icing on the cake.
Posted by: Blast

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 12:16 PM

Thinking back to 9/11 when thousands (millions?) of people were hoofing it out of Manhattan, was there much violence among the evacuating masses? I don't recall hearing about any.

With that in mind, I would focus on gear/knowledge aimed at you getting out of there safely and quickly. To me this says maps, good shoes, water, clothing appropriate for the weather, flashlight, dust mask, small first aid kit, knowing how to send text messages on you cell phone, etc... A commando knife and lockpicks seem overkill in this situation. However a cresent wrench and a bandana could be very useful.

-Blast, try to apply the past to tomorrow

Posted by: Rodion

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 12:28 PM

I have a solid red baseball cap which, combined with a t-shirt of similar color, have sometimes been mistaken for some sort of uniform and therefore had me ignored. So unless your emergency is getting caught in a bull run, this could help...

Generally, I've found the biggest factor in how people treat you is how you treat yourself: you can traverse a college campus covered in dirt and blood without anyone batting an eyelid. Trust me, I know. wink
Posted by: Russ

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 12:37 PM

My get home bag is one of the civilian Camelbak packs, the Alpine Explorer. My major concern on a long walk is water and this one has both a 100 oz bladder and room for a liter bottle and water filter -- sources my be tainted. That will get me part way if I need to walk. If stores are open along the way I'll buy water as I go.

I don't plan to carry a weapon, just stay on major streets and walk with a purpose. No E&E intended.

My gut is that you won't be able to go unnoticed and if you try to hide it will make folks wonder why. Just go for the "more trouble than he's worth" look.

$.02
Posted by: comms

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 03:27 PM

Russ great plan with the water. I keep a 3L platapus rolled up in my backpack or my camelback reservoir.
Posted by: Colourful

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 04:55 PM

How about making your car look like a utility company vehicle? Keep a kit in the trunk, put vinyl stripes, fake company name, ID numbers, magnetic light kit, etc, and look like you're on a mission...
Posted by: aligator

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Colorama
How about making your car look like a utility company vehicle? Keep a kit in the trunk, put vinyl stripes, fake company name, ID numbers, magnetic light kit, etc, and look like you're on a mission...



That's not too much of a problem, I still have my lights from back in my volunteer EMS/Fire days. Jim
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 09:39 PM

I wear a uniform to work everyday anyway so I think I'd be able to get to where I need to go anyway. On top of that, I've almost figured out the "offroad" way home using utility tracks. That'll keep me out of everyone's way and vice/versa.
Posted by: bws48

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 10:29 PM

One thing to consider is a stout walking stick or something like that. Nothing too obvious, but strong enough to be used as a self-defense weapon.

Somewhere in a recent post, someone had a link to an "unbreakable" umbrella (sorry I can't find the link at the moment). Consider something like that.

There you are walking along with your quaint stick or umbrella; no one would think you have a weapon in you hand.

Just a thought...
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/22/08 10:37 PM

*glares at my clipboard, making notes about Sue* We're watching you.

*laughs*
Posted by: aligator

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 02:40 AM

Ladies and Gents, Good evening. Thank you for your responses and time. Both very much appreciated.
I think we can agree, that there are times and places from which we must flee in order to survive. From the evac order to leave your home when threatened, by a fire or the like to political unrest to riots to roving gangs and looters post disaster, if we are home, perhaps we have a "bug out bag(s)" already to go. Perhaps, we bring our BOB(s) with us on vacation or when traveling, but do you really carry it everywhere? What if you were to be caught in need of it but out of reach? To my understanding, this is the roll of the E&E kit. It is a small kit that contains the bare minimum needed to assist you in moving from where you are to a safer place, I don't think it really matters what it is thats forcing you to run, just that it's a kit to help you get to a better place?

I recognize that this forum is about wilderness survival, but I'm willing to bet that most of us spend more time in the city, then we do in wilderness (unfortunately). It's still survival, just with fewer trees and a different species of predators. Thanks again. If anyone has anything further to add, please do.
Regards, Jim
Posted by: Russ

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 02:47 AM

Actually, this forum is more about preparedness, not necessarily in the wilderness.
Posted by: comms

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 08:03 AM

Speaking for myself, based on the feedback and questions I have read for years here, a basic EDC (EveryDay Carry) should be within an arms reach at all times. I carry a small backpack with me where ever I go. Some people use fanny packs or jackets or maxipeditions or messenger bags. Its not the carrier but whats being carried.

That being said my less than one pound EDC is space blanket, mini-bic, fire steel, multiple fire starters, small knife, button compass, safety pins, duct tape, pencil, quart and sandwich zip locks, signal mirror...and I am probably forgetting something else...YES, photon light.

Also in my backpack is a 8L waterproof Sea To Summit bag, RSK Mk1, SAK (Swiss Army Knife)or similiar, map, full size compass, buff headsweat, bandana, sunglasses, small lip vaseline and sunscreen, moleskin, some bandaids, mag lite LED with duct tape on it, petzl e+lite, zippo lighter, piezo-lighter, light gloves, water container (nalogene, camelback or platapus. 2g thumb drive.

Everything I have listed equals maybe two pounds. At most three. Plus I carry a couple writing items like sharpies, pens, moleskin notepad. And whatever I specifically need for whats going on that day.

Every night I put my phone, wallet and keys in the pack, in the same spot in case I have to get it in the dark.
Posted by: Matt

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 10:34 AM

A book you might be interested in is:

PREPAREDNESS NOW!: An Emergency Survival Guide for Civilians and Their Families (Paperback)
by Aton Edwards (Author)

This book suggest equipment to carry. You can read the reviews on Amazon.com. I bought it and thought it had some good ideas.

Just a thought.

Matt
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 10:53 AM

There are several differences between urban and wilderness survival.

Darkness is more likely in an urban situation; if you are inside a building and there's a power cut, it's likely to get pitch dark. A lot of places have emergency lighting but I wouldn't rely on it. Where-as outdoors it's rarely truly dark. So carry a decent torch.

In urban environments you are more likely to be trapped inside a collapsed building. Further, the materials you're likely to have to deal with will be artificial: steel, brick, wires etc, and may be held together with screws or nails. This affects the tools you may need. A multitool with screwdrivers etc is good, and a hacksaw blade that can cut metal may be more useful than a woodsaw. I think a prybar, even a small one, can be more valuable in an urban environment than a wilderness one. A tin-opener will get you more food than snares.

There will be people around. This is mostly a good thing: it means you can call for help if you get injured or trapped. Carry a whistle. Also a cell phone: cities generally get good signal which you might not in remote areas. Other people may call on you for help so it's even more important than usual to carry spares. It's better to have two or three small torches than one big one, so you can give the spare ones to other people.

Lots of urban problems can be fixed by money. Carry spare money.

There will be dust. Carry a dust mask. I've read that in 9/11 the most valuable EDC were torch, whistle and dustmask.

There are things you are less likely to need. You probably won't need a signal mirror in a city. Tap water will likely either be pure enough to drink, or polluted by chemicals that a wilderness kit can't cope with. Fire-starting is rarely a problem. Likewise building a shelter when you are surrounded by buildings.
Posted by: aligator

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 11:30 AM

Thanks again gents.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 12:19 PM

To get at that water in an urban environment, a silcock wrench/key could come in handy...
Posted by: BillLiptak

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 02:06 PM

After giving this a thought here's my 2Ę.....
First I'd go with a blend in/stand out look. Try to look like a tourist, that way you probably will reduce your chances of being approached. For this I suggest a digital camera, portable "walkman" type radio, sunglasses (get a good "sporty" looking pair of safety glasses. UVA/UVB protection as well as protection from debris), touristy looking clothes appropiate for the weather and a fanny pack that has twin bottle holders outside the main compartment.
You now have blending in, keeping in touch with news, eye protection and water issues taken care of. In your fanny pack I'd pack good maps of the area, a rain poncho, good multi-tool, flash light with some spare lithium batteries, some energy bars, spork and the DRPSK along with a small FAK and a dust mask. Grab a p-38 can opener if your multi-tool doesn't have a means of opening cans.
You now have protection form the elements, basic simple first aid, basic tool needs, illumination in case of power failure, navigation (know where your going and all alternative routes as needed), energy replenishment (food) as well as means to aquire and eat more (spork and can opener).
A cell phone to maintain contact with loved ones and spare cash on hand and I think you should be set.

-Bill Liptak
Posted by: climberslacker

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/23/08 02:30 PM

Instead of a can opener, I would suggest EMT shears, as they can do a lot more then just cit bandages. I have opened cans of beans with them, and done sooo much more.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 01:10 AM

I have never heard of cutting a of anything open with EMT shears. I am sure it can be done, but I'll bet a P-38 will do it faster and easier, with less metal flakes in the meal to boot...
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 01:57 AM

If you want to blend head down to your local Wally World, Sears, K-mart and head for the men's section. Find the Dickies and Carheart work clothes. Get a few pairs of cotton/poly slacks, about $17 each, and work shirts, about $12 ea, in whatever colors and sorts are popular in your locality. Trot over to the shoes section and pick up a pair of 8" tan work boots for around $50. This works for both men and women.

Wearing these you go a long way toward lowering your profile. You look like millions of other blue collar and no-collar workers. This is the base uniform for a lot of people. With a few props people will look past you and automatically fill in the blanks in the roll they assign you using the accessories you have selected.

With a mop and rolling bucket, or a push broom and a rag and spray bottle hanging off of a pocket, your a janitor. With a hard hat, a leather tool belt, tape measure and hammer over your shoulder and your a construction worker heading home. A hardhat, orange vest and clipboard and your on a site survey crew or a low-level boss on a construction crew.

These sorts of clothes aren't just a good way to blend in and not attract attention. They are tough, inexpensive and practical survival clothing.

A pack looks a little odd with this sort of rig but a duffel type athletic bag with a shoulder strap looks right. A duffel also allows easy access without having to set it down.
Posted by: big_al

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 01:58 AM

Aligator:
in addition to what others have suggested I think I would add one of those 4 way keys that turn on water bibs on the outside of the buildings, so you could replentish your water.

sorry OBG didn't read your post crazy
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 03:24 AM

"...sorry OBG didn't read your post..."

You are forgiven...
Posted by: epirider

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 01:00 PM

On the subject of cheap bending in type oc clothing, get a set of coveralls. They type mechanics wear. They are very inexpensive, they are one peice, lots of pockets, light weigt and they can be worn OVER your clothing, thus not raising eyebrows in a situation when co-workers come to tell you that there is a situation and find you naked in a closet. Never been in that situation, never plan to be :o)
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 01:05 PM

"...They are very inexpensive..."

Actually, good ones are a little pricey. But most auto parts stores sell used coveralls, in very good condition, for 'bout $10 a set. Some still have logo's and/or name tapes on them, which might or might not come in handy with the blend in thing...
Posted by: epirider

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 02:32 PM

I would probably not spend money on a good set if they are going in a pack (hopefully never to be used). I was thinking Goodwill or used clothing place of some sort. As far as the name, long as it was gender appropriate I thing it would have little impact.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/24/08 07:37 PM

Actually, I was thinking more of the logo thing. "Joe's Garage" might make the wearer look like mister common man, rather than the computer programmer trying to pass thru un-noticed...
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 01:07 AM

Originally Posted By: epirider
On the subject of cheap bending in type oc clothing, get a set of coveralls. They type mechanics wear. They are very inexpensive, they are one peice, lots of pockets, light weigt and they can be worn OVER your clothing, thus not raising eyebrows in a situation when co-workers come to tell you that there is a situation and find you naked in a closet. Never been in that situation, never plan to be :o)


That isn't a bad idea. But it might work better in cooler climates. Nine months out of the year wearing even light coveralls over much more than underwear in Florida and your going to stand out because your the person sweating like a junkie looking for a fix.

Which is doubly bad because you stand out and both your coveralls and clothes underneath are soaked in sweat. A bad start to a bad situation.
Posted by: Matt

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 04:44 PM

I know the conversations has moved more to blending in and clothing more than equipment, but I dug out my Preparedness Now! book for the list of items. Some items have already been mentioned in the posts, but I'll go ahead and mention what he lists in the book.

emergency kit (E-Kit)
Multi-tool
Flashlight
first-aid kit and pouch
N95 respirator or Xcaper civilian smake mask
lighter
Mini-pry bar or 4-way hatchet tool
Civilian lab pouch (civilianlab.com)
Pockets or EMT tool pouch
whistle
EMT shears
waterproof matches
cord

There are more specific items listed but generally speaking this is what he suggests as EDC.
Posted by: Yuccahead

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 05:20 PM

How big is the suggested ""Mini-pry bar"? It seems I've seen variants from 3" long to 12" long?
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Actually, I was thinking more of the logo thing. "Joe's Garage" might make the wearer look like mister common man, rather than the computer programmer trying to pass thru un-noticed...


I'm not saying the "Joe's Garage" logo wouldn't be a bad idea, but what is really the difference between a computer programmer trying to pass thru unnoticed, and a mechanic trying to do the same thing?
Posted by: aligator

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Yuccahead
How big is the suggested ""Mini-pry bar"? It seems I've seen variants from 3" long to 12" long?


If you can find a pry bar that fits within the confines of an E&E kit, which I'm thinking is a little bigger them a PSK, that is worth carrying, great. I don't know, but most of the mini bars i've seen, mini Stanly bar etc, dont seem sturdy enough. A 4" x1"x 1/4" bar is bomb proof, but how much leverage can you get on it? What are you going to pry with it? I've taken to carrying my Strider tanto that I got as a rescue knife when I worked EMS, not a great cutter, but a sharpened pry bar that might work until I can access something bigger. My other knives cut things.

Regards, Jim
Posted by: BobS

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 09:18 PM

What about a cable company type of logo. A utility service worker would fit better then OJís glove did.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: aligator
Originally Posted By: Yuccahead
How big is the suggested ""Mini-pry bar"? It seems I've seen variants from 3" long to 12" long?


If you can find a pry bar that fits within the confines of an E&E kit, which I'm thinking is a little bigger them a PSK, that is worth carrying, great. I don't know, but most of the mini bars i've seen, mini Stanly bar etc, dont seem sturdy enough. A 4" x1"x 1/4" bar is bomb proof, but how much leverage can you get on it? What are you going to pry with it?


Not sure exactly how big mine is -- maybe 8" or so, but seems like a good compromise:

[my urban edc kit]
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Susan

I drive from Centralia, WA to Seattle (85 mi) or down to Portland, OR (95 mi) regularly, and as driving entertainment, I think about what I would do if a large earthquake hit.


That's funny. I work downtown Seattle, and that is my primary planning scenario. :-)

Quote:
If I were in Seattle when the same quake hit, I'm afraid that I would be SOL for seeing home soon. It would probably take me at least ten days to get there, or even more if I had to do much backtracking. And youbetcha, it would have to be on foot. Downed overpasses, abandoned vehicles, tons of fallen debris... yuck!


Indeed. The windstorm of 2006 gave a good preview of how transportation really gets honked up when you throw in a little debris. I had to traverse the east side that day and while it is a bit less urban there, it was still a mess. The 520 bridge was closed, but I had no way to know. News was... well, less than helpful. I ended up traversing a bunch of places I wasn't familiar with. The GPS was very helpful. And the kicker is.. just a *little* bit worse and it would have gotten real interesting... As it stood, I could still *drive* (with some backtracking and routing around).


[out and about in Bellevue]
Posted by: Matt

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 11:28 PM

The book doesn't specify a size for the mini-pry bar. I think he had something in mind that could be carried comfortably on a daily basis.

I would think it would need to be strong enough to help escape a building by prying open a door or elevator doors. Maybe even pry open a window if the glass wasn't breakable.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/25/08 11:33 PM


Keep in mind if you are at a fixed place of business, you can keep a bag under your desk with a full sized crowbar (also consider a hardhat -- and water!).

Personally, if you had to scale it down to the size you could have on your person at all times, you might be better off a with a heavy duty screwdriver.

-john
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 12:48 AM

I guess it depends on the part of town being traversed. "Working person" might not appear to be as affluent as the computer programmer (or whatever) in a three piece suit and wingtips. And please keep in mind that I an not a city dweller, so I might be all wet...
Posted by: THIRDPIG

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 01:53 AM

I carry a Stanley 7 inch pry bar on the job as a fire LT. i open plenty of doors with this tool, slipping the lock on doors is easy with this bar. You can forget elevator doors though , a small bar will never do it then the outer doors are only a skin anyways .

The widgley (sp?) and micro ones from county comm. are great at slipping locks also and way smaller.
Posted by: Blast

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 12:13 PM

Quote:
as affluent as the computer programmer (or whatever) in a three piece suit and wingtips.


Bwahhahaha! Wow, you really don't know how computer programmers dress, do you?

Going back to the whole "disguise" thing, I still think that's overly paranoid. If everyone is in a panic trying to get out of the city it won't matter much what you are wearing. Now, changing into Dickies or Carthart clothing for there durability makes a little sense, but will you really have time to do that?

-Blast
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 12:29 PM

"...you really don't know how computer programmers dress, do you..."

Well, back when computers were the size of a boxcar...
Posted by: Blast

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 02:11 PM

Funny story: DW used to work at a huge computer programing firm near where I worked in Houston. We'd carpool together so every evening at 5:15pm I'd be standing at her building's front desk waiting for her. I had the usual tie/white shirt/dark slacks thing required for my job and a pda in my hand. As I stood there all these programmers in flip-flops, cut off shorts and tee-shirts would shuffle by giving me a worried look.

After two months of this almost all of them had switched over to at least polo shirts and Dockers, though a number of ties had appeared. I asked DW why they started a dress code at work. She said they didn't, everyone assumed I was some VIP of the company and they were trying to impress me. laugh

She left the company soon after so I wasn't able to take advantage of my newly-realized power...

-Blast
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 10:15 PM

[quote=OldBaldGuy]affluent as the computer programmer /quote]

No one gets rich by writing code. You get rich by leading projects, and marketing them, which means you probably wouldn't know Java from COBOL if I slapped you with the books. Being a code monkey means long hours, lousy pay, bosses and customers that don't understand anything past the user interface is pretty, and you get to do it all in some crappy little cube unless you are enough of a child prodigy to get in some place like Google. Or Mac. But then it's mostly bennies- your pay is decent, but not spectacular. You're still working for the Department of Education.


As for how we dress.... I wear a tshirt and utilities, with long hair, goatee (and sometimes two or three days stubble), sneakers or workboots, and drag my Bag of Tricks everywhere.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 10:35 PM

Sheese. Guess I should edit my original post from computer programmer to bank president or something...
Posted by: nursemike

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Blast

A everyone assumed I was some VIP of the company and they were trying to impress me. laugh

-Blast


How about an experimental return engagement wearing, say, a loin cloth, pith helmet and knee-high rubber boots, to evaluate social psychology of code-monkeys. One of the networks would pay big bucks for this.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/26/08 10:42 PM

Quote:
No one gets rich by writing code. You get rich by leading projects, and marketing them, which means you probably wouldn't know Java from COBOL if I slapped you with the books.


That reminds me when I had to explain to the IT manager of a well known international merchant bank how to enter her login username and password into her broadband router. Or even the case of a database design project leader for well known international telecommunication company who wanted to know where his webmail messages had disappeared to - yep he had downloaded them to his Outlook email client on his PC. shocked laugh

Posted by: 7point82

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 12:56 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnN

[out and about in Bellevue]


I live in an area where trees down across roads seem to be the norm. Thunderstorms, tornadoes and ice storms can each make a perfectly good road impassible. I'm surprised that I don't hear chainsaws discussed here more frequently. I wouldn't want to be caught without one.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 01:15 AM

I spent all day, with another old guy volunteer, removing a large tree that fell down in our campground. Thank God for Stihl...
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:03 AM

I hadn't thought of how a computer programmer actually dresses either. I know exactly one, and he wears jeans and Hawaiian shirts to work.
Posted by: BobS

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:09 AM

A come-along would be handy also. I picked up a new one still sealed up at a garage sale years ago for a good price. It and a good length of rope with hooks on the ends would be handy for pulling things out of the way.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:18 AM

I'd just finished writing my checks for the month. I had money. Someplace. I'm sure of it. So I was being grumpy.

It really is funny how many people do believe we all live like the google crew. Noooo, far from. At least in my current gig, I don't have the roaches trooping out of the break room with my lunch, demanding vengence for the death's of the brothers. *laughs*
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:18 AM

It seems like the ideas for kits are making them bigger and harder to carry around. Isn't the idea to have enough gear to get you out of the city?
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:19 AM

There is a reason why the pointy hair boss in Dilbert is so loathed. At least no one has asked me for an SQL DB in mauve because they think it has the most RAM.
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:27 AM

I have a supervisor that doesn't stand up for us at all. If presented with a problem his stock response is, "Well gawd dawg guys, I've done all I can do!" His nickname is "Crawdad" because when presented with a threat he backs away from it as fast as he can, like a crawdad! But he brought in fresh honeydew melons tonight, so everything is forgiven.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 02:43 AM

"...I had to explain to the IT manager..."

And that, my friend, is where the term "stupervisor" came from...
Posted by: kd7fqd

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 05:53 AM

Sounds like someone got a 1D10T error



Mike
Posted by: Susan

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 06:26 PM

Just now reading the suggestions about having a pair of overalls handy. If you look like a regular working stiff, you can carry a nice BIG lunchbox full of useful stuff. I doublt that anyone would try to rip it off because they think they know what is in it.

Never try to look like a tourist. The city jackals aim for them first.

Sue
Posted by: Blast

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 06:46 PM

Again I have to ask how many people were attacked while trying to escape the city in 9/11, New Orleans, Bay Area earthquake, etc...

Personally, I'd think a construction worker would more likely be carrying useful stuff in an emergency than white collar workers.

Plus I still can't imagine spending the time to change clothes if I'm trying to leave an area fast.

-Blast
Posted by: big_al

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/27/08 08:29 PM

I agree with Blast, Nobody is going to give a second thought to any body heading anywhere, If the brown stuff has already hit the blades, they are going to try to save themselfs, If this is a pre event departure, then again nobody will care .(just the normal rif-raf to contend with)
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/28/08 05:50 PM

I for one haven't a clue what you are talking about. Why would you need to avoid people? In answer to your question. NO. There is no 'value in the concept of avoiding, or actively evading, ANY contact'. It's the most dangerous thing you can do. No one is going to come and rescue you if they don't know you are trapped in a fire, or pinned down by rubble in another 911.

An Escape and Evasion kit is what it says. If you are a soldier in enemy captivity or have Escaped from it and are now trying to Evade it again; you need stuff hidden on you, so you'll still have it after capture. If you aren't a criminal this is no use to you in the USA.
A Bug Out Bag is stuff to 'Bug Out' with. So you can grab it and leave quickly if you have to get away from a place.
Blast has told you what you need to walk out of a city.

The Sock
Posted by: bws48

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/28/08 11:37 PM

There is a certain safety in numbers. If there is a major evac, what external support is available will be targeted where the most people are. It may also be that you can find people to team up with, which could be very helpful. I also think you will be less likely to be mugged/robbed with a lot of people watching; too much chance someone may help you. The bad guys like easy, safe targets: that is what bothers me about going off alone. As TheSock points out, if you yell "Help", there is no one to help, and you are an easy, isolated target.

So my default plan would be to stay in the crowd, and try not to stand out, especially if the crowd is going somewhere, say for example walking out of Manhattan into Brooklyn across one of the Bridges.

That being said, I would not abandon all sense and follow the crowd off a cliff. Nor would I willingly be confined to a 'refuge center' like the super dome during Katrina-- I would go off alone under those circumstances. That might call for some E&E.

Bottom line, IMO there is no one right scheme; you have to keep up your situational awareness. Trust your sixth sense; if it feels wrong, don't do it, even if you can't explain why.
Posted by: Air_Pirate

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 01:12 AM

The coolest, easily stashed, piece of E&E gear I've seen lately is the dog tag knife. Anyone else seen these? Better yet, anyone have one?
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 01:40 AM

$20 for an unstamped dogtag? It had better cut like crazy...
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 10:38 AM

It won't.

I've seen people try to sharpen dog tags back to high school. None of them worked worth beans. What edge it would take, on the ones I've seen at least, were more of a scraper/butter knife level. Some people claim to have gotten better, but I want to know how well the edge held up to even the normal usage.

Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 12:15 PM

Quote:
The coolest, easily stashed, piece of E&E gear I've seen lately is the dog tag knife. Anyone else seen these? Better yet, anyone have one?


Atwood Knife and Tool do some nice but spendy E@E kit.

http://www.atwoodknives.com/home/index.php

Lets not of course forget the old classic E&E kit, the venerable Commando wire saw by BCB.

http://www.bestglide.com/Wire_Saw_Info.html

Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 12:32 PM

The one I found by googling was made of titaninum, maybe that would sharpen better than a regular tag. Won't find out tho, 'cuz I'm not gettin' one...
Posted by: Paragon

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ironraven
I've seen people try to sharpen dog tags back to high school. None of them worked worth beans. What edge it would take, on the ones I've seen at least, were more of a scraper/butter knife level.

While not technically a dog tag, I have a Boker Subcom F that is essentially the same size as a dog tag when closed, albeit somewhat heavier at 2.5 oz.



Jim
Posted by: BillLiptak

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 02:17 PM

I just picked up a fancy Atwrench from somebody on edcf....handy lil bugger. Pry bar, v-notch for pulling nails and stripping wires, bottle opener-5/16th wrench, and an ingenous cut out that is a muti wrench. 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, and 3/8. Pricey for what it is on a base level, but superbly made and finished. The price you pay for limited supply and excessive demand from a custom knife/tool/gadget maker.

-Bill Liptak
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 04:45 PM

Is that what this thread is about? You think you are going to be forced to go into a shelter because you are wearing scrubs? When has this ever happened?
Or is it that you'll be told by your employer to stay at work because hurt people need help and you want to be able to sneak off and avoid the duty you took on with the uniform. If your family can't get medical help because the hospital staff near them are avoiding their duty too, youíll be fine with that?
And what is wrong with standing out? If I could chose what to wear in a city in crisis, it'd be a neon orange suit so rescuers could see me and a backpack of gear. The only thing I'd possibly prefer to that is the uniform of a medic, cop or firefighter, like you are entitled to wear. They got a 'get out of trouble free' card when i wore the blue.
Who died in Katrina or on 911 because they had a backpack? I wear and carry backpacking gear to work. People think it's amusing. At no point has anyone tried to mug me for them when we had the London bombings.
What WILL get you arrested is impersonating an emergency services worker as you plan to, with your EMS/Fire lights. When they find the weapons and Breaking and Entering gear you are thinking of carrying you'll be heading for a cell.
No offence but I don't think you've thought this through. You want to be james bond so you won't be frogmarched to a shelter, but are worried they then won't let you in because you have a SAK? You think the authorities are going to tell you to evacuate your home because of a forest fire and then arrest you for doing so?
These roaming gangs of looters and martial laws forcing you into shelters don't exist. Been a long time since there were any riots in the US too hasn't it? And they'll be looting shops full of expensive goods, not chasing people so poor they carry gear to work in a backpack.
I think you are mixing up an E & E kit and a Bug out Bag. See my definitions in previous post.
An E & E kit needs concealing because it's what you have on you after being searched. At least that's the theory. The people capturing you would be soldiers and policemen themselves;they'll be looking in the same places they'd use. It's really a chance to sell miniature gear to soldiers. When did you last hear of an escaped POW who wasn't searched when captured?
There is no reason to conceal a BOB. Doing so can only add to your problems.
Funny story; an idiot I knew forgot to empty his belt of the little bits and pieces: spare money, wire and cord for repairs, padded tape for blisters, spare torch batteries etc that he carried there, when he was flying last month. This innnocent possibles belt had a slightly different appearance to the airport security. Imagine my errr.. i mean 'his' reaction when he heard someone say "boss this one has batteries and wires concealed in a secret compartment in his belt".
You'll find cops have the same reaction to concealed items. Especially if they are 'night vision/thermal imaging, lock picks, window punches'.
The Sock
The Sock
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 10:23 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnN

Personally, if you had to scale it down to the size you could have on your person at all times, you might be better off a with a heavy duty screwdriver.
The fancy key-ring prybars - the Atwoods etc - tend to function as heavy duty screwdrivers, often with other features too.

Not cheap, but I see them as a kind of jewellery for men. I don't mind spending money on something that's going to be with me always, especially if it buys me quality. I think it's worth using titanium for lightness, for example. That said, I don't currently carry one because I carry a Leatherman Juice instead, which I hope will be enough.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Brangdon
[quote=JohnN]
Personally, if you had to scale it down to the size you could have on your person at all times, you might be better off a with a heavy duty screwdriver./quote]The fancy key-ring prybars - the Atwoods etc - tend to function as heavy duty screwdrivers, often with other features too.

Not cheap, but I see them as a kind of jewellery for men. I don't mind spending money on something that's going to be with me always, especially if it buys me quality. I think it's worth using titanium for lightness, for example. That said, I don't currently carry one because I carry a Leatherman Juice instead, which I hope will be enough.


I personally don't see it as jewellery for men. The 4 atwoods i have, i use two very often (atwrench and Bug out bar) and see a lot of action. The more mature peter's tools get, IMO the more professional and useful they get. I have two of his tools that I don't use, his flat ti keyton (got it as a freebie) and his mini card knife with leather sheath (bought on a whim - used twice).

I guess its how you use them...

Posted by: JohnN

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 10:39 PM


I was just thinking that the Atwoods tend to be very short (less leverage) and the handle of a screwdriver would help you apply more power as well.

That said, the little Atwoods have the advantage of being smaller and more compact, so easier to have with you all the time. And as you said, they are pretty darn cool.

*That* said, personally, I have a small prybar (~8") in my EDC pack, a medium sized bar in my earthquake bag under my desk at work, a 15" by my seat in my car, and a full size in the trunk.

If I *still* manage not to have something to pry with, I'll have to make due with my RSK. ;-)

-john
Posted by: Kris

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 10:52 PM

JohnN... very good points and agree with all.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 11:31 PM

You can make a halfway decent prybar from a larger (at least 3/8-1/2") allen wrench. Grind the ends to a flat point. Pretty tough, not too expensive, a little heavy...
Posted by: BobS

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 11:46 PM

Iíve always found an allen wrench somewhat brittle. Very seldom have I broken one, but I use to work at a machine shop that also assembled factory equipment and hardly a day went by without some guy over stressing an allen wrench and breaking it.


I think a pry bar needs to be a bit flexible, a somewhat softer metal then what is used in allen wrenches.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 11:48 PM

Good idea OBG!

Sometimes I wish i could get some power or shop tools/equipment to play with so I can try things like that.

BTW: anyone see the new fubar's from stanely? Two of them are 30" long and offer some more features on them then previous models (i.e.Demolition head, Gas shut-off feature, Spanner wrench, etc).
http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=HT+BARS&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=55-122&SDesc=Stanley%26%23174%3B+Fubar%26%23174%3B+Forcible+Entry+Tool+%2D+30%22

And not to mention this guy for demo:
http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=HT+BARS&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=55-120&SDesc=FatMax%26%23174%3B+Xtreme%26%238482%3B+FuBar%26%23174%3B+Utility+Bar+%2D+30%22

Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/29/08 11:53 PM

Guess I'm just lucky. But then, I don't use them every day...
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/30/08 12:07 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnN
I was just thinking that the Atwoods tend to be very short (less leverage) and the handle of a screwdriver would help you apply more power as well.
The longer it is, the harder for me to justify carrying every day. I think 3.5" is about my limit.

I do have a ~8" one in my bug-out bag, and a decent-sized one in my car and another under my bed (in case the house collapses during the night).

Originally Posted By: Kris
I personally don't see it as jewellery for men.
I didn't mean they weren't useful. On the contrary, the aesthetic is about marrying form with function. But aesthetics are important.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/30/08 12:08 AM

Heh. This would be my perference. (comes with can opener) :-)

-john
Posted by: Kris

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/30/08 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Brangdon

Originally Posted By: Kris
I personally don't see it as jewellery for men.
I didn't mean they weren't useful. On the contrary, the aesthetic is about marrying form with function. But aesthetics are important.


No worries, didn't mean that you meant they weren't useful (did I just type that sentence? LOL). I see them as well thought out tools that just work with little to no moving parts. I personally like the atwoods that aren't jazzed up with glow dots or angle grinds, the ones that are basic and plain and do the job period. Same goes with all tools i purchase.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/30/08 12:58 AM

Not being a fireguy, I might be wrong, but I always thought it was a Halligan tool , and that Hooligans were rowdy troublemakers...
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/30/08 01:35 AM


Interesting, if you look at the last paragraph, the suggest there is a minor difference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar

-john
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 08/30/08 02:33 AM

Indeed it does...
Posted by: ratbert42

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/06/08 03:24 AM

Yes. I keep a basic kit at my desk at work in a cheap soft-side lunch cooler. I can easily carry it in and out of the office without a second glance.
Posted by: UTAlumnus

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/06/08 05:39 PM

Quote:
Been a long time since there were any riots in the US too hasn't it? And they'll be looting shops full of expensive goods, not chasing people so poor they carry gear to work in a backpack.


U.S. Riots

More than one/year since 2000
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/06/08 09:04 PM

"...Been a long time since there were any riots in the US..."

Yup.

"...not chasing people so poor they carry gear to work in a backpack..."

Tell that to Reginald Denny . Don't know if he had a backpack in his truck or not, but he sure ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. Which can happen to anyone...
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/07/08 08:31 AM

That was in 1992, 16 years ago.
Like I said it's been a long time...
The Sock
Posted by: bws48

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/07/08 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By: TheSock
That was in 1992, 16 years ago.
Like I said it's been a long time...
The Sock


True, but it is in the nature of riots that they can break out at any time, without warning, even after a very long time of quite/peace. Some may be "small" or "local" while others larger shutting down significant parts of the city. Both are big problems if you get caught in the middle. (IMO, the safest response is to hunker down, but that is not always an option.)

I was caught in 1 major urban riot: Washington D.C. in 1968 and had to bug-out as the college dorm was shutting down and kicking us out. It took some creative thinking to get out, and of course, I didn't have a bug out bag, or even a SAK (expelled if caught with a "weapon" in the dorm.)

IMO, the infrequency of riots should not preclude them from our planning for your urban bug-out or bug-in plan/kit. Unlikely event, yes, but serious enough to justify planning and thought. I think most of our survival planning is for unlikely scenarios that we hope will not happen, but experience says can and do happen without warning.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/07/08 11:49 AM

I agree. But I can't understand how having a Bug out Bag is going to make you a victim.
The Sock
Posted by: Leigh_Ratcliffe

Re: Urban E&E Kit - 09/07/08 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
"...Been a long time since there were any riots in the US..."

Yup.

"...not chasing people so poor they carry gear to work in a backpack..."

Tell that to Reginald Denny . Don't know if he had a backpack in his truck or not, but he sure ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. Which can happen to anyone...


I remember seeing that. Wondered how those S.O.B.'s would have done again a Hi-Power?

Poor man was an easy victim.