BOB / survival saw

I have been out of the loop for a while and this topic may or may not have been covered.

I was brain storming about a small, light-weight saw for each of our BOB's. I have tried those wire saws and ended up breaking them in the first minutes of use. I have limited amount of space in my bag as does the wife.

I need some opinion as to what you fine folks think of putting a recipricating saw (sawz-all) blade in a pack. I have one for my saw that they call the "demolition blade". I have used this - with the saw - to go through nails, screws, wood, drywall, copper pipe and electrical wire (unfortunately it was all at the same time when I was doing "house repair" but that is another story). They are light, tough, sharp, inexpensive and come in a variety of lengths.

I can already see one downfall and that it has no handle, but I have used saw knives and proptly broke the handle anyway. Maybe I am too hard on my stuff???

Anyway, I would seriously like some input on this.

I keep 2 sawzall blades (think they are 6") in my psk. I use black electrical tape to protect the teeth, and then you can use that same tape for a little 'handle' if you need to use the blades asap. Using this method reduces the cutting part of the blade. I've done this for cutting thru copper pipe as a test and it worked.

They take up no room other then the length. And if needed, you can create a handle for it...

I agree with sockpuppet, the Gerber is the way to go, I bought the saw and have used it quite a few times and really like it, holds up well too.

I bought a saw (I agree the thin wire ones are junk) at Wal-Mart for $10.00 it’s not a thin wire, it’s like a chainsaw blade, it seems very tough considering the price. Its only problem is that when new it’s hard to saw because the joints are tight. Some use and WD-40 helped a lot with this. It comes with a black cordura case with a plastic lining on the inside to protect the case, it has handles on it that are large enough and seem to be more then strong enough to hold up to abuse. I’ve had it for about a year and have used it several times.

I just went out and took a few pictures of it to post.

I think you're on the right track. A sawzall-type blade, with a few tweaks, is a "cut anything" tool. Not fast, but effective.

From my experiments, I'd suggest:

- Go with a bi-metal, fine-tooth blade (usually 14 tpi IIRC) at least 6" or longer. It takes a lot of power to use a coarser-toothed blade by hand, especially without a handle.

- My preference is to grind both ends of the blade to a quarter-moon shape, all edges carefully smoothed so I can use it as a pull-cut or push-cut. You never know which you'll need. Also, rounded ends mean nobody except airport security gives them a second glance.

- Another option: drill a couple of holes in the blade so you can mount a short handle if needed.

I would even hand these out to people who knocked on my door asking for help. Useful as a tool, useless as a weapon. Perfect.

NOW THAT IS COOL! I have not seen anything like that at wally world, but I like the design and the simplicity of it. It also looks like it could take some abuse and still complete the task at hand.

I also noticed that the links are like motorcyle chain links. I wonder if they are the same size? If they are you could put a spare link or two in the pouch should I (for whatever reason that I do) break it. If you know where else to get one of those, send me a link or whatever. I like it.

Regarding making a handle, could an exacto knife handle be used if the back end of the saw blade was modified to enter the socket deep enough?

-Bill Liptak

It works good when running it with my hands, but it does require 2 hands to operate this way. It also works well as a bow saw allowing you to cut with one hand if you want to. All you have to do is find the right length branch that can tolerate the sharp bend needed without breaking. This usually means a green piece of wood (still alive and attached to a tree) and it seems a lot of us here don’t like to cut branches off a tree so the bow saw comments are for information purposely only. No trees were harmed in my testing (that you know of…)of the saw!

Or you could buy a Leatherman Surge , it uses similar blades...

Here is a knife combo pack with interchangeable blades. It has a wood saw in the pack. It’s made by Kerskaw, it’s called a Blade Trader. It has 6-blades, fish blade, bone saw, wood saw, 2 regular blades (one curved, one strait) and what looks to be a bread cutting blade. I’ve had it for going on 20 + years. I’ve mostly only ever use the wood saw on it. It also has a zip-up case.

It’s not something you are going to hack through the jungle with, but it does work well sawing wood.


They also made a smaller version called a Jr Blade Trader, it had 3-blades.

I don’t know if either one is still made today.

Those look like T-style jig saw blades.

LOL. before this thread came up I pretty much said what I had to say in the "Ravenlore's Possible Bag" thread:

Also, I have looked at the Gerber with its ability to use small saw blades. IMO those saw blades are much too small to do much real work. Unlike a knife, where a small one can do big work, a saw depends on length to get a good number of teeth across the work. A electrically powered jigsaw can move the tiny blades back and forth a thousand times a minute and get the job done quickly. Using such small blades by hand is pretty miserable about the time you get the blade moving you have to stop and reverse direction.

Even under ideal conditions a 4" saw blade is about the smallest saw blade I consider to be practical to use by hand. The saw blades on my Leatherman are about 2-1/2" and only good at a last resort. Even a 4" blade is pretty much short-stroking it and you end up working mighty hard to get anything done.

Anyone doubting this should try using one of a jigsaw blade to cut through something light, like a softwood 1 by 3 or #3 rebar. These are pretty much the minimum capability in my book. If you can't saw through these in a reasonable amount of time your better off reconsidering your options. A tiny blade will see your arm tired before the job is done. And don't be in a rush.

An 8" or 12" blade is much more useful if your intent is to get something done rapidly.

No matter which saw you use or what your sawing it pays to lubricate the blade with some wax to make it sawing easier. Makes a big difference. Beeswax is perhaps best but a wax candle, perhaps from your fire starting kit, will work.
...........

I have carried a 'Wood-Zig' pruning saw or a demountable 'Sven saw' if I have reason to believe that I may need a wood saw. One of these bow saws will take any standard 12" hacksaw blade. These blades are kept under tension and are more effective than any 'stab-saw' type blades because they are thinner and are kept straight by being under tension. The only weakness is you need to be able to span what you cut so, unless your really creative and determined, you can't use it in a blind-cut situation.

There are several nice aluminum SawsAll blade holders that will allow you to mount any standard reciprocating saw blade in a comfortable handle. Lennox makes a nice one. You will still have a sore arm trying to do what you can do in a minute with a SawsAll but a longer blade, ideally 12", or a type optimized for the material your cutting is far better than short stroking it with a silly 2" long saber saw blade.

A SOG Seal Revolver might be worth considering. It is a knife/saw combo in one blade (not a folder). They also offer an even more versatile model with a gut hook (Hunter model).

http://sogknives.com/store/REV-7.html

Disclaimer: Not affiliated...blah blah blah

Stanley makes a handle for using Sawz-all blades. I've also seen this designed to use 1/4" hex bits. IIRC it was from them too.

Sawzall and reciprocating blades are nice, but they are designed for something doing how many hundreds of RPMs? YOu do how many tens of RPMs? So you are going to have a hard time taking on metal, and the carbide blades will test the patience of a Buddist monk.

If I have to go utterly ultra light, I'd probably go with a bow saw blade packed in a length of old garden hose, and some screws and split rings. Make a handle for it. NOt the best way, but it does work. Or if you have two people, two lengths of P-cord and turn it into a small two man saw.

The Kerskaw blade trader blades are not small 4-inch blades. The blades are almost 9 inches long, (8 inch worth of sharp edge.) The handle (the wood part ) is 5 inches long with another 1.5 inches for the latch part 6.5 inch total handle.

I've found that gripping a saw blade with the pliers in a Leatherman tool to work well. For a while I carried two 3" saw blades (one for wood, one for metal) in an Altoids PSK along with a Leatherman Mini (now discontinued but available on ebay from time-to-time). It made for a very compact package with a lot of capabilities.

This is knife in my BOB and hiking kits. It is 8" closed, 14" open and weighs no more then 10 oz.

I have had the knife for 3-4 years now and has proved itself from the far north of Canada to the Rockies several times. The dual rows of teeth can cut through a hefty size piece of log. If the teeth get a little dull, they can be touched up with a small file. There is also a locking mechanism to keep the blade from doing a number on your fingers...

The original cost of the knife was $14.99, the blade is replaceable at a cost of $3.00 which I just replaced it for the first time a few weeks ago.

+1 !!

I also keep a Gerber fold-up saw handy. Doesn't take up much space, and works well as a pruner or as a bone saw.

I worry about my SAK blades because they don't lock.

I have a "Pocket Chainsaw" in my BOB. It's very similar to the Walmart "motorcycle chain" type in this thread, except instead of the webbing handles, it has small wire looped handles that are designed to have a piece of wood slid thru them to use as a grip/handle.

I just googled it and they do have a website:

http://www.pocketchainsaw.com/

It cuts fairly well for what it is. Packs up in a round tin about the size of a chew can. I'm not sure of the weight but if you're weight conscious about your kit, this thing is fairly heavy for its size.

Then evil people on that pocket chainsaw web page, they cut down a live tree.


But other then that it looks like a nice saw.

But no price on the web page. what's the price?

Doug has a review of the pocket chainsaws at Saws and Axes

And Old Milwaukee the makers of the Sawzall have their own handle at Sawzall handle

I have the old style handle and a pocket chainsaw and they both work. Not as easy as the power models but a whole lot lighter and easier to carry.

With the Sawzall or saber saw blades you can make a handle. Take an appropriately sized stick. Split about 1 inch into one end. Insert blade and wrap tightly with cordage. No it won't work as well as a real handle. But it'll do in a pinch.

That’s a good article on saws & axes.

I do carry recip blades in my kit. I have a heavy duty demolition blade, but I also carry Skil's "The Ugly" wood blade. This is a really aggressive pruning blade, and goes through green wood quite easily. I experimented with it when pruning trees & brush around the house.

I also have a skeletal handle that came from Lowes as part of a 3 blade set. It's cheezy, but really, really light weight and takes very little space. Not incredibly reliable, but with the Skil blade, took no real pressure from wood cutting. They don't seem to sell that version any more, darn it.

Ah, I knew I did a writeup on this. The saw blades & handle are shown in the "Main Pocket" group. The other blade is an abrasive edge blade.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=81795

Fair comments above; sawzall-type blades are slow cutters, but they do cut through most everything. When you're facing an unknown task, that is of value.

If I was expecting wood cutting, or other soft materials, I'd choose a bow saw or folding saw (pull-cut) blade. In fact, I often save weight in the bush by packing a smaller knife and a folding (wood) saw blade without its heavy handle. Wearing gloves, I can take down a six-inch tree faster than most guys with an axe.

I like the ole Sven saw. I've been using them for the better part of 20 years, and never had a complaint.

Sven Saw

"...I've been using them for the better part of 20 years, and never had a complaint..."

Yup...

Call me crazy, but I would rather have a hatchet. Why, you ask? Because opposite the chopping edge I have a suitable hammer for pounding in tent stakes.

I do have a saw. It's just some cheapy that I got at Walmart. But my hatchet is my go-to tool for anything to tough for my knife.

For me, a combination of a SAK saw (for small tasks) and a pocket "chain saw" (for slightly less small tasks) is the way to go. Both Wenger and Victorinox saws do the job well, but I can only vouch for Ultimate Survival's Sabercut in the chain saw department: I have one and it's very well built. Seems like adding more teeth would significantly increase gripping. Note: ditch the included sheath - the whole thing fits in a cellphone pouch.

I agree that a hatchet is handy, but it’s a tool that doesn’t allow for misjudgments in aim. I have one that I take camping, I find the saw faster for wood of 1-inch or bigger and the hatchet better for smaller wood.

Both are handy tools, but the saw is more forgiving and less dangerous to use.

When camping with my son (he’s 18-years old) I let him use the saws any time he wants, but I have a hard time letting him go with the hatchet. I do it, but every time I watch and remind him how to use it and make sure he does it in a way I feel is safe. At 18 you think you are invincible, ( I know I thought I was) you have to get old like me before you figure out this isn’t so. I guess that’s why the young are the ones to storm the beaches of the world, they are too dumb to know you can get killed.

My pocket chainsaw resembles the one you got at Walmart, its called a SaberCut from Ultimate Survival, a good brand that makes fire sparkers and other interesting things, http://www.ultimatesurvival.com/product_view.cfm?product_ID=430. I originally bought it thinking to replace my Sven saw for cutting away smallish trees down across the trail (while I don't cut green branches for shelter, I do cut the occasional dead tree to clear a trail :-)), and its pretty good, but I think the motion of sawing with the Sven saw is more natural, I've kept it instead. Now the SaberCut is relegated to a BOB, but its not clear why I would use it in an emergency (most of the trees that might fall around my house are too big to cut by hand). Its definitely smaller and lighter than a Sven, and seems plenty durable unlike imitators, just not quite as handy as a Sven or frame saw.

Before I started getting into the preparedness mindset, I was on a snowmobile trip that taught me a lesson about the need to have wood cutting tools on hand. We, two of us, left for the trails on a beautiful, snowy morning with nary a second thought about cutting wood. By the end of the day, pine trees were literally falling down around us due to a combination of heavy snow accumulation on the trees, soft ground and wind.

We soon encountered trees that had fallen across our only trail back to the base camp. Due to the depth and texture of the snow, along with the lateness in the day, it wasn't feasible to hike out. If we didn't ride out, we would be forced to make do on the trail until morning, something that we were ill prepared to do.

The trees couldn't be drug out of the way because they were still attached at the stump and they were too long to allow us to swing the free end past standing trees. We ended up hacking through the fallen trees by taking turns with my buddy's single SOG SEAL Pup. Trees were falling around us as we attempted to clear the trail. The beautiful winter wonderland that we had so enjoyed earlier was trying to kill us and I would have given all my worldly possessions for a good hand saw.

Before that trip was over, we had purchased a variety of packable wood cutting tools, vowing that we would never again be unprepared for a similar situation.

I would go on but I need to go fondle my saws.

+1 on that BobS.

The ability to drive a tent stake isn't that high for me- you can always find a rock around here. While an axe is worthwhile, a hatchet in my experience isn't as efficient a use of space as a 12" machete for the small stuff, and a buck saw for the larger.

I guess I was lucky. I was clearing trees on my uncles land (at his request) at about eigth. I was too small to swing his full sized axe, so I cut down 10"+ pine trees with a rig axe (large hatchet with a checkered face hammer head on the other side). Been swinging edged tools ever since. I don't always hit exactly where I want to, but have never cut myself either...

I thank you all for your input. I think I will go with the hand chain saw in leui of the sawz-all blade. It is cheap enough at approx. $10 and IMHO would probably keep my hands in better condition for other vital tasks. One of the reasons I enjoy this site is that there are varieties of opinion and respect for the variances. All I have to do now is find a space in my pack to store the saw. I will probably put one in each of my vehicles emergency boxes.

Again thanks for the ideas and information passed along.

A word of warning: unlike fixed saws, the flexible kind is nearly useless for very light work. I imagine you're aware of that, though...

Gents, I subscribe to Tactical Knives Magazine, and a gent named Dan Shechtman pens the Survival column there. He opines that through various means, you can loose or be separated from your pack or anything that is not "attached" to you. He recommends a "pocket-able" folding saw. I took this recommendation to heart and purchased a Silky Pocket Boy 170 (www.silkysaws.com), it is the largest model that will fit in a BDU thigh pocket. I has a comfortable orange rubber like handle (any handle in a given size series will fit any blade in that series) and I ordered a full selection of blades and spares of each. I'm still in the testing stage, trying to figure out what each blade design cuts what best, and to see if I can narrow it down to 1 or 2 blades that cover most of what I would need to cut. So far, it's a great saw, I'm very happy with it.
Between it, my PSK/PFAK, SAK, Leatherman Wave (Gen.I), lock back folder, a substantial fixed blade, Zippo and the K&M brass match safe with waxed strike anywheres, most or all of which can in some way be tied or affixed to me, I'll miss my pack as it floats down stream, but I'll not be without tools.
Regards, Jim

PS, you can order directly from Silky.

I don't think you're lucky. I think other people are just paranoid.

In the same vein, i.e. a cut it all (even if slowly) folding or takedown small saw, does anyone have any experience with the "MXZ Saw" for sale at www.asseenontv.com?

The MXZ saw is not a saw but a piece of metal with some abrasive material... think course sand paper. In one experiment trying to cut a 1/2 round stick, after 10 minutes I had less than an 1/8 deep cut. Go buy a cheap OzarkTrails or Gerber folding saw about the same size - they work.

I keep getting suckered sometimes and can't resist... but "As Seen on TV" usually means it's crap.

-Tommy

Nothing new about that saw, really. Home Depot has sold the saw body, and the blade is a Remgrit abrasive reciprocating saw blade, also sold at HD.

There's a multitool out there that has this.



As far as I know, the blade is fairly useless on wood.