Brunton compasses

I bought a Brunton 8096 adventure racing model compass last year and do enjoy it. Almost as much as my Silva Ranger.

I noticed pretty much right away on the 8096 a bubble in the fluid. I have read, its no big deal. Compared to other compasses it see no diviations.

Any feedback on the Brunton Bubble? Tips or tricks?

Do you trust it?

I have an Brunton 8099 Eclipse. No bubble when I'm home at 5400 feet elevation. As I go on hikes and gain elevation a bubble developers, but does not appear to affect accuracy AFAIK. I have not checked the exact altitude where the bubble just starts appearing ... but I'd guess around 10,000 feet, plus/minus. It's definitely there when I'm at 12,000+ feet, as I've seen it at that altitude positively for sure.

First, keep in mind that Brunton IS Silva. Brunton was purchased by Silva of Sweden in 1996. Products with the Silva trademark in the U.S. are NOT made by the real Silva of Sweden.

I've had an ongoing problem with bubbles in Brunton-designed Eclipse compasses. Everytime I've had a problem Brunton has been quick to repair or replace the compass. They've told me that some issues have been resolved lately. I've been a happy customer for quite a few years.

Call them and see what they'll do for you to resolve any concerns.

Ken

Wow. I did not know that Silva owns Brunton. Thanks.

Over the years I have had problems with several compasses that have had bubbles in them. The bubble gets under the disk and knocks it off center tying it up or gets in the way of the needle. Not sure why they have a bubble, it may be designed that way to allow for liquid expansion (but then this leads to the question, why do some have no bubble?) or lower quality made product.

I don’t buy them any more with a bubble in them, if they can’t figure out how to make a compass without a bubble in it, I can’t figure out how to pay for it.


I have a $10.00 Boy Scout compass with no bubble and it is 30-years old and working great.

Somewhere in our stick house I have a Brunton with a bubble. Big enough to mess up the needle. E-mailed them about it and got a BS answer. So now I just avoid Bruntons...


I lied. Or at least made a booboo. When I got my GPS I purchased a Brunton Eclipse GPS Compass, on the recommendaton of a friend. No bubbles in it. Yet...

I just use a GI lensatic compass (the one in my avatar). No liquid, no bubbles, inductively damped, built like a tank, no problems.

I initially wanted the GI lensatic. However, my wife bought me the 8099 for a Christmas gift. I have learned to really really like the thing, and think it's better for me than the GI model (never having used the GI model, I'm just speculating).

The problem is my "old eyes". I'm significantly nearsighted, and have progressive bifocals on top of that. The 8099 is nice because you can line up on your target, and then pull the compass totally away from where you were working, point it any-old-where, and still read the bearing from your targeting work. That is a lifesaver for those of us who cannot focus on the distant target, align the needle (or disk in the case of the 8099), and also read the bearing at the same time. Pictures I've seen of the GI lensatic make me thing you have to be able to work on all those planes of focus at the same time. If you move the compass from your sighting position, you lose the bearing with a lensatic. Is that correct?

I have not used a 8096 like the O.P. mentioned, but it looks like it would be similar to the 8099, but without the sighting mirror (the mirror helps these "old eyes" tremendously too!)

GI compasses are solid, a good piece of kit. However, a lot of higher end civilian compasses have a feature that I find so valuable that I haven't used a GI compass in years: a declination adjustment. In other words, I can adjust the compass to compensate for the difference between grid north (map north) and magnetic north (compass north).

I personally used to hate having to constantly add or subtract the declination amount to convert grid to magnetic and magnetic to grid. When I was a map reading instructor in the Army, one of the most common mistakes I saw was people messing up on the conversion between grid north and magnetic north and magnetic north to grid north. Having a declination adjustable compass means there is no conversion. What you see on the compass is the same as on the map. Effortless.

Also, the see-through civilian compasses can be used as a protractor as well as a compass, which is handy. I've lost a lot of military protractors in my time!

Now in defense of GI compasses, one can determine a much more precise azimuth than civilian compasses (there might be one or two exceptions, but the big brands like Brunton/Silva and Suunto are less precise in the way one conducts a sighting). Also, the GI compass has tritium (generally) in it which makes it useful even in the dark. Further, the GI compass is rock solid; a GI compass is really breakage resistant.

Personally though, the declination adjustment is so worthwhile that I've stopped using a GI compass. When I'm tired, possibly injured, and not thinking straight in a survival situation, the last thing I want to do is math. "Is this an easterly or westerly declination? OK, so it's easterly, great. Now do I add or do I subtract the declination? Oh, it depends on whether I'm going from magnetic to grid vs. grid to magnetic. Ummm..." (insert blank look of utter bewilderment here)

The KISS principle is a good one to keep in mind in a survival situation.

The GI does lack the rotating, settable bezel found on clear plastic base plate type compasses. You need to sight the target and read the bearing at the same time. My vision is ok, so I don't know how hard it is to use with glasses.

Nice thing about your type of compass is you can set the bearing from the map without ever having to read anything in degrees.

I'm in the opposite position, never having used a mirrored compass - how exactly do you use the mirror?

I recently purchased a Brunton 8097 for exactly the reason spelled out by Hikin Jim. The declination math is too easy to get wrong and double-checking takes a lot time. And while my GI lensatic compass was very accurate and durable, for me, reading it was kind of a pain since you have to get the lens, your eyeball and your target in just the right place.

My Brunton also came with a bubble that irritated me quite a bit at first. The bubble is the same size as the "N" circle and it does seem to make the compass disc tilt. However, after some casual testing, it does not really seem to affect the bearing. I had gotten over it until I read this series of posts. So a couple of hours ago I sent an email to Brunton's customer service simply asking if I should return the thing. If I hear anything worthwhile from them, I'll post it here.

A declination adjustment is a handy thing to have, after you've learned the difference between grid and mag north.


In a pinch, you can use the compass to physically orient the map and then get a bearing without using a protractor, but it is less than ideal.

I originally kicked myself for opting for the non-tritium model, but now I've had it so long that the tritium would be about worn out anyway. Mine has a glow in the dark source that you "charge" with a flashlight. It then proceeds to glow so bright it ruins your night vision until shortly before it glows too dim to read.

The mirror, tilted at 45 degrees, allows you to sight your target and see your compass dial at the same time.

Here's a good explanation (animated GIF image) of how it works:

http://www.thecompassstore.com/usmircom.html

I see. Thanks to both of you.

Watch that bubble carefully. I have an Eclipse that has had 3 capsule replacements for a bubble. This compass has a card that a large bubble can bind up making it useless. If the 8096 uses a compass card rather than a needle a large bubble at high altitude can leave you with a non-functioning compass.

I do not trust or use any Brunton with a compass card anymore.

A standard needle type compass can have a very large bubble that will not make it useless, but a card compass can go bad with only a moderate sized bubble.

Brunton has been excellent at replacing the capsules for me, but takeing my Eclipse to high altitude is like hauling expensive junk along....it has never worked.

Here's another one I was thinking of getting (Brunton 54LU). http://www.thecompassstore.com/54lu.html You sight it similar to a GI lensatic. However, I couldn't find any locally to test out (to see if it would work with my vision). Also, the scales were for 1:25000 and 1:50000 and I would have preferred 1:24000 and 1:62500 to match US topo maps. Plus, the dang thing seems pretty expensive for what it is. I probably would have opted for the GI lensatic over this model because of its more rugged nature and lack of fluid to experience bubbles. Plus, the GI lensatic, even the tritium one, is less expensive. But the Brunton 54LU is just so "cute", and I like its clear baseplate...

1/2 degree accuracy? Good luck!

Now that you guys got me reviewing compasses again, I just found this new one (new to ME, at least!) It looks like a nice mix of a lensatic and a baseplate compass. And cheap too. I may have to investigate this new one...

http://www.thecompassstore.com/dakar.html

I have researched the Brunton Bubble on my 8096 and contacted them personally. The conclusion I have found from them and in other forums is that the bubble does not hamper a solid bearing. My own testing proves this, at least with my own units.

I will continue to use the Brunton in my EDC. I love compasses. I would someday like to have a gentlemen's compass like a Dalvey or Brunton for dress occasions. I have a GPS in my phone but I don't trust it.

I agree with others that the declination aspect of the Bruntons is superior to Silva and the Lensetic. No key, screwdriver or math needed. I like the Brunton style of circle in a circle. Different but good.

That is a very interesting compass! I may have to get one. If you get one first, please post a review, and I'll do the same.

Jeff

Reading a mirror sighting compass is similar to the reading a GI compass. You fold up the mirror to maybe a 50` angle (depending on the model). You sight through the "V" above the mirror while simultaneously aligning the needle on the dial of the compass with the red needle outline on the baseplate of the compass. While you're sighted in, you can read the bearing in the mirror, or just position the compass at waist level for readability and move the red arrow back into alignment and read the bearing.

When one uses a non-mirrored sighting compass, one generally has to take the compass off the target to align the needle and to read the bearing. One typically has to do multiple looks back and forth between the sighting object and the compass, which leads to a less accurate reading. A mirrored compass allows one to set the bearing while sighted in on the sighting object.

A GI compass is more accurate still with front and rear sights, and the magnifying lens in the rear sight allows you to more or less set the bearing while still sighted on the sighting object. It takes a bit of practice, but a GI Compass is about as precise as one can get with a handheld device.

GI Compass is about as precise as one can get with a handheld device?



GPS

This compass would probably OK just for map use, but if you're really interested in cross country (off trail) navigation, orienteering, or anything that requires precise readings, this compass isn't going to get you there. With this compass, there is nothing to sight with. You have to look up at the sighting object, look down to the compass, back up to the object, and then back at the compass. No offense intended, but those 1/2 degree markings are a bit of a joke on a compass of this design.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/54lu.html

Now the Dakar compass looks really interesting. I've not heard of K&R before, so I have no idea as to the quality or durability of their product. If anyone buys one, please do give us a report. The price is certainly right, and you'd have the best of both worlds (military & civilian) in that you'd have a more precise sighting system and a clear base plate with a declination adjustment as well as having a 1:24,000 scale (it doesn't have a 1:62:500 scale).
http://www.thecompassstore.com/dakar.html

The compass I use is a a Silva Ranger. It's one that my uncle bought about 30 years ago and then passed to me after he lost interest in backpacking. It's quite a bit more reasonable than the Brunton model for a much better compass (if you need precision sightings).
http://www.thecompassstore.com/ranger1.html

I've often wondered why Brunton can't just engineer a bubble into the Eclipse compasses on purpose and use that as some kind of leveling device - to help ensure that the compass is nearly level ... turning lemons into lemonaide.

Though I REALLY like the Brunton Eclipse 8099, lately I find myself more often bringing along the Brunton 15TDCL (the original mirrored compass by Silva of Sweden - though the newer model has a more rounded cover, which is nice).

In terms of sighting, yes. In terms of exact positioning, no; a GPS wins hands down.

GPS's of course are subject to failure, particularly in winter. No matter how fancy GPS's get, I'm going to always carry a map and sighting compass as a back up.

Watch that bubble closely....it may not be locking up the compass card for you now, but trust me it will sometime. This compass design is definately one that will not work with a large bubble...the compass card simply cannot freely rotate making the compass pure junk.

I would never take an 8096 as my only compass anywhere.

For a protractor, I use a copy of this: http://www.maptools.com/pdf/UTMTools/24kPocket.pdf which is a free download on the www.maptools.com website. I poked a small hole in the very center of it and added a string, add suggested on the Ranger Rick website: http://www.therangerdigest.com/Tips%20Tricks/24%20map%20protactors/24%20map%20protractors.htm

I have also use a Silva Ranger Compass both on and off the job for 25 years and they have been great. I have 3 old ones in the house with bubbles but all as a result of physical damage. I carry my compass in my upper left-side pocket and in the winter when you hit something while driving the snowmobile the compass gets compressed between your chest and handlebars. I have recently been training on a compass in Mils instead of Degrees, it really takes some getting used to this new measurement.

Mike

I always have a compass on me and a map, not always a super detailed map but none the less a map. I take 2 compasses with me, a pin on ball compass that is hooked to my shirt or coat by my left shoulder and one packed away. The ball compass I look at for a quick reference so I don’t have to power up the GPS so much.


But since getting a Garman GPS 5-years ago it has taken over the place of a compass & map for doing any navigating. I still have a good idea where I am at without it, but it’s nice to know exactly where things (myself included) are. A GPS just does so many nice things that a compass can’t.

When hunting fox at night I can tag my van’s location along a corn field row, I can tag good hunting spots and come back to them months later. While fox hunting I tag any woodchuck holes I see for future varmint hunting spots. I can backtrack to any trail I walked. Night navigation with a GPS is wonderful.

Neither had I. Apparently it is a German company, "Kasper and Richter". They've been making precision instruments since 1920, according to their website.

K&R is imported to the USA by ROC Gear Wholesale, who maintains the website http://www.kandrusa.com/Home_Page.html

The German company website is http://www.kasper-richter.de/english/

This doesn't tell you anything about the quality of what they make, but it's a start to find out more info regarding K&R.

I also found mention of K&R in this forum thread: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/...thread_id=15128

Seems like the folks over there at BackpackingLight think K&R compasses are OK, even though they are from a lesser known company.

Brunton 9020G, simple but effective, and accurate. Handles declination well.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___60745

+1 on the 9020G have 2 of them.

Lee

I found this comment on the Backpacking light forum about the Dakar to be instructive:

Still, the Dakar is intruiging...

Keep in mind that the Silva Ranger you got 25 years ago was made the the real Silva of Sweden, which now owns Brunton and only sells compasses in the U.S. under the Brunton or Nexus trademarks. The current version of that compass IS the Brunton 15TDCL, and its still made by Silva of Sweden.

As I mentioned in the thread above, the Brunton 15TDCL has become my "goto" compass. Very nice, though not cheap. No bubbles - ever.

For a lower cost compass my recommendations are the Suunto M-3 Leader (with the standard needle), or the Brunton 8010G (though the 8010G doesn't seem as refined as the M-3).

I actually carry the Brunton 9020G when I need a real "pocketable" compass, but I've seen several people accidently flip is around and use the wrong end, and I fear this symmetric shape could cause some confusion.

Ken

Not really. The 54LU allows you to see the target, compass and azimuth all at once.



It is a favorite of the guy who runs MapTools. However, it does not have a declination adjustment. Since it uses a card and not a needle it would be more affected by a bubble.

I don't own one, I just remember him talking about it.

I know we keep hitting back to Silva. Now or then. I really like the Ranger model that I picked up well over a decade ago. I actually like Brunton too. In fact I just picked up their monocular last month and for EDC, its great.

Knowing now that Brunton and Silva are the same company is sort of like knowing Starbucks owns Seattles Best Coffee. Both great and each has their own positives.

No orienting lines on the capsule? Well, that's a deal breaker for me. To bad, since the other features make it so appealing. Back to the ol' Ranger . .

Thanks for the good intel.

Jeff

I sure wish I could get my hands on one of the old ones with the aluminum bezel. Speaking of monoculars, have you seen Brunton's new zoom monocular?

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=452408

Jeff

It does seem like a pretty glaring omission, unless for some reason the design of the compass does not allow for these. I'm a protractor man myself so it doesn't effect me, but I can see this being an issue for others who want an all-in-one device, as the Dakar is supposed to be.

I wonder if a fine tip Sharpie Marker and a ruler could be used to add the missing lines?

On second thought, I'm pretty sure I could fix that little oversight with a straight edge, and X-acto knife and a bit of paint. I may get one anyway,

Jeff

I understand the idea of being able to read the bearing via the optically enhanced rim of the compass. But that's not the issue. You have no precise aiming point on the compass. How do you aim it? You basically eyeball the arrow on the baseplate, looking back and forth between the baseplate arrow and the sighting object. Yes, you can read the bearing through the rim, but it's not a very precise bearing.

With a compass that has a sighting device (sighting wire, sighting aperture, sighting "V," etc.), you get a more precise aiming device and therefore a more precise bearing. Hence this general class of compasses are referred to as sighting compasses.

I'm not saying the 54LU is a bad compass, but if I need to take bearings, it wouldn't be my first choice. Add in the fact that there is no declination adjustment and the 54LU is a "no go."

Is it just me, or is the price of feature-rich compasses going up (Brunton, specifically)? I appreciate a functional and precise instrument, but I have a hard time digesting some of the prices I'm seeing. The Brunton price seems higher than what I remember. I would have a hard time paying much more than the Silva Ranger, and even that is pushing it a little.

These two, while greatly different in implementation and ruggedness, are functionally similar (the edge in functionality may go to the K&R, but the GI would be all over the K&R in the ruggedness department):

K&R Dakar: $26.50
GI Lensatic (non-tritium): $49

These three are near clones of each other IMHO:

Suunto MC-2D: $49
Silva Ranger 515: $55
Brunton 15TDCL: $69

The Brunton 15TDCL basically is a Silva Ranger. Silva bought Brunton some time ago. Some items are marketed under the Silva brand (although not necessarily in Sweden) and others under the Brunton brand (although not necessarily in the USA). There may be some divergence, but both are bascially Silva Rangers. The 15TDCL has a good reputation. My Silva Ranger purchased in the 70's is still going strong.

The K&R is a real winner on price.

A GI lensatic compass would be great ... if only it had a declination adjustment. I wonder why the army (etc.) doesn't have a declination adjustment?

I would venture that even grunts are capable of adding and subtracting.

Just kidding, but how would you implement declination adjustment in a rotating card compass used in the sighting mode? With the Dakar it looks like you rotate the lubber line on the face plate, but this would introduce a parallax error when not looking down from directly above.

One more argument against declination adjustment - if you make a conversion error while using a compass without adjustment, one bearing will be wrong. If you make a mistake setting the declination on your adjustable compass, all your bearings will be wrong.

In North to the Pole, the author writes how they travelled South instead of North for an entire day because he set the declination wrong.

OK, I went ahead and ordered the K&R Dakar compass. I'm going to try making orienting lines on the base of the capsule. I'll let y'all know how that works out, complete with pictures (if I can figure how - first attempt for me)

Jeff

If the Suunto and Silva are purchased in the US...then both are made by Suunto in Finland. Silva, the brand name in the US is owned by Johnson Camping. They currently have Suunto in Finland make all the compasses they sell in the US.

Silva purchased anywhere else in the world is made by Silva Sweden.

The Brunton is a Silva Sweden product. This confusion is confusing.

Brunton also manufactures some of their line here in the US.


The K&R line looks interesting all around. The Dakar at $26 seems like a good one to try.

Who's on first?

This closer look at the Dakar may reveal why it does not have any baseplate meridian lines.....

I think this looks like a compass card rather than a needle. The capsule may not turn to allow alignment with the grid.

lol! Well, FYI, I'v studied Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, and Calculus, and I still think adding and subtracting declination is a pain in the butt.


That's a very good point. Hmm. Not so easy; maybe that's why it hasn't been done. It would be interesting to hear a solid report on the Dakar in terms of it's accuracy inasmuch as it is a lensatic compass and has a declination adjustment. I hear what you're saying about the potential parallax error.


Excellent point. For what I do here in S. California, the whole area is basically 13' declination (easterly IIRC). I set the compass at home under no stress in ideal conditions with all the time in the world, and then I don't touch it again unless I travel out of state, but even for travel out of state, I set it at home before I leave. The chances of getting it wrong are pretty slim. Also, one could check the azimuth on the map from a known point to a known point (say at a trailhead to an obvious point) and compare the map azimuth with the compass azimuth. If they don't jibe with one another, it's time to carefully check your procedures and settings. I also usually carry a non adjustable back up compass. One can look at the two, compare them with the declination diagram on one's topo map and pretty quickly determine whether the compass is set correctly.


Yeah, if you're in relatively featureless terrain in the Far North (where the declination is going to shift frequently and dramatically), a declination adjusted compass might not be your best bet. One trick would be to have each member of your party independently set the declination on their idividual compasses and compare the results. If any discrepencies, STOP and think.

I don't have any plans to travel that close to the North Pole anytime soon, so I think I'll stick with an adjustable compass for now.

Judging by the shadow in the picture, I'd bet it is a skelatonized card. I ordered one today (yeah, like I need another compass), so a review is pending.

Jeff

Don't get lost in the trademark name.

Silva of Sweden - the original clear plastic baseplate compass company - does not own the "Silva" U.S. trademark; therefore, they cannot sell their compasses in the U.S. under their original name.

Instead, in the U.S. they sell their compasses under the Brunton and Nexus labels.

Johnson Outdoors owns the "Silva" U.S. Trademark, and sells "Silva" compasses in the U.S. I'm not sure who makes them, but it is NOT Silva of Sweden.

Prior to 1996 the compasses solds as "Silva" were indeed made by Silva of Sweden, but not since then.

That's kind of like saying that McDonalds can't sell their burgers using the word "McDonalds" in Europe. OK, maybe a bad analogy.

"I don't know" is on third...

I have that on a casette tape, great timeless humor.


I would bet it's on the net for download.

It came today. It's going back tomorrow. It's useless, cheap junk. No declination adjustment, contrary to advertising, an invisible sort of lubber line and tiny graduation marks are the only thing that rotates in the bezel; while the compass degrees in the bezel are fixed. The skeletonized card is jiggly and unsteady, and the degrees are impossible to read without the magnifier, which itself is totally off in focal length, and the instructions are in German only.

Jeff

Other than that how was it?

That's a shame. It looked very promising. Thanks for the review.

I guess that explains why the Germans lost the second world war...

Damn....it did look like it had possibilities.

I wonder if the rest of the line is also not worth the trouble of ordering.

I was curious about the Ranger type one with the flexible capsule to "prevent" bubbles.

Not too likely I will try it now though. My Silva and Suunto are working just fine.