Once Again, a Signal Fire Out of Control

<sigh> here we go again. The last one in AZ burned almost half a million acres (when it joined up with another)

A signal fire started by a lost hiker Saturday night has erupted into a several hundred acre wildfire about a mile from the Crown King community north of the Valley, Yavapai County Sheriff's Office officials said.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/06/29/20080629crownking.html

As Smokie says, Please, only YOU can prevent forest fires.

I'd say the person responsible for starting the fire should be required to pay for the damages. Including the people time and effort. and the cost of thier rescue.

When someone starts a stupid fire, and they lose control of it, they put the lives of good people in immediate danger. That is horrific, selfish, obscene; it raises my blood pressure off the chart. Shame! Idiot! Shame!

I suspect this individual is going to discover that an investment in a PLB suddenly isn't going to look so expensive.

Signal fire, hmmm? Great, one more thing we'll get blamed for.

Doug, as much as I squirm saying it, I'm leaning more to the PLB and GPS recommendation.

Only Bill Gates could afford to actually pay for fighting a monster fire, but the setter should have to pay. A lot. And lots of community service time...

"five hikers got lost and one of them left the group and started a signal fire"

In California right now we have over one thousand (1,000)primarily lightning-caused fires burning; the central Sacramento-San Joaquin Valley have been filled with unhealthy levels of particulate matter from smoke for days. So, starting a fire is not too popular around here.

In California, anyone found guilty of intentionally starting a fire like the one in AZ could be subject to civil fines and various criminal charges, but only after an investigation established the facts.

I agree with all the sentiments expressed so far, but also caution that we should not rush to a final judgment. Let's learn what all the facts are so we can learn whatever real lessons are presented beyond just the headlines of this story.

How about learning and then teaching fire safety, along with restoring the fire area, as community service?

IIRC the hunter who set the signal fire that eventually became the Cedar Fire in San Diego back in Oct 2003 got jail time.

Are we talking about setting a brush fire to signal searchers or lighting a small, contained fire or perhaps 3 as I believe that's the preferred method of signaling for help?

Anyone who purposely sets a brush fire is an arsonist, someone who lights a controlled fire(s) to attract the attention of rescuers is a member of these forums...;^)

John E

I could see someone not knowing how to keep a contained, not pick or clear an area to prevent that spread of fire, etc. They probably do not belong where they ended up wanting to build a rescue fire.

A friend of mine is retired from working in forestry for over 30 years (and the air force before that). He's always told me that a fire is always worth the risk of a forest fire because forest fires could be put out (he'd have been unemployed without them he says) but you can't be brought back to life. He also told me that you still need a bit of common sense with your how and where you build your fire. More importantly to him since it's not always possible to set a signal fire in a perfect risk free area is once you get rescued (no matter by who), call the forestry department when you get back to civilization and tell them about the fire and where you were. They'll send somebody out to check it out and put out anything still burning before it gets out of control.

Now Alberta and Arizona are very different and I don't know how much that has to do with it and the article doesn't say what type of signal fire they made (unless I missed it). They could have set a tree on fire intentionally as a signal instead of doing it properly.

Addendum: Personally I've never heard of a search operation waiting like that (though that's just my experience. I'm sure it's happened before and will happen again). I could never live with myself if I were the search manager who made the call to wait if there were a chance this fire wouldn't have been so unstoppable had they acted immediately...or worse, if somebody died because they hesitated.

Latest update: up to 2400 acres

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/06/30/20080630abrk-lane2-0630.html

If you were truly in a life or death situation, just how many acres should you be able to burn?

Just wondering.

"...controlled..."

That would apparently be the key word here...

comments at azcentral.com are harsh!

Yeah, the comments are pretty harsh.

"He also told me that you still need a bit of common sense with your how and where you build your fire."

Common sense? You want common sense? Isn't that illegal? Isn't there a stiff fine for using good judgment? There must be, as so many people seem to avoid doing it.

And members here want people to take responsibility for the stupid, damaging things they do? THIS IS AMERICA! WE DON'T DO 'RESPONSIBILITY'!

Sue

Yep, If its a choice between my ass and your forest guess which one I'm going to pick?

Having said that one wonders if a signal mirror might not have been a better choice? Which they were probably not carrying or might not been able to use. If its high canopy forrest then a signal fire might be your only choice.

Please do remember that tiredness, dehyration, injury etc significantly reduce your ability to make considered decisions. Particulary when those decisions have to be made fast.

Now tell us how you really feel

Speaking of responsibility I haven't heard anything more about who's wise idea it was to wait until morning before beginning the search.

So the signal fire worked?

Well, it DID attract attention...

There are 2 huge fires burning in Big Sur. One is 95% contained, the other is burning out of control and is only 5% contained. This last one is the one that is burning homes and threatening businesses. The Indians fire just south of Big Sur was started by a campfire that escaped. I read that it is 95% contained. That is all I know at the moment.

Big Sur is where we went camping, hiking and swimming when I was a little girl. We also took our girls hiking and camping there when they were growing up. We especially loved camping at Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park at a camp site in the trees above the waterfall (from what I understand, this area is now burned). Scroll down to see the waterfall above the cove: http://www.pelicannetwork.net/jpb.statepark.htm

The large Big Sur fire was started by lightening. The Basin fire is the the Big Sur fire that is only 5% contained the last I heard. Here is a page that has a good map of the 2 fires (click on the map): http://www.kusp.org/fire/sur.html

Most of the fires in California have been started by lightening.

Joy

I'm waiting for the news article like this:

"Lost Hiker Sets Signal Fire, Dies in Resulting Conflagration".

Or, "Lost Hiker Sets Wildfire, Killed by Distraught Victims".

Many years ago, an idiot set a fire in tinder-dry Santa Barbara by pulling the string of a downed kite hard enough to bring two power lines together. The authorities refused to identify the fool, for the actual fear that he would be lynched by homeowners who lost their beautiful, expensvie homes.

Reading Doug's original link, the five guys had only been lost the one day. I would hardly have said it was a life-or-death emergency. And you would think that they could have found SOME place on bare sand or bare rock where they could have set a fire without starting a wildfire.

Vigilante justice is starting to look more and more reasonable. Culling the gene pool, as it were. The chlorine obviously isn't working.

Sue

Or have cleared the burnable matter from an area before lighting it. Heck, you should be able to clear a decent pack of dirt just kicking stuff away from where you intend to start your fire. I know I've cleared a decent area using my foot as a broom.

However, if it were a choice between me dying in the woods or lighting the fire and risking burning down the whole forest, I'd light the fire.

We're just assuming they didn't take adequate precautions. They very well may have. Just because you're careful and do things by the book doesn't mean it can't go south on you and light a blaze you can't stop.

I agree with Hacksaw. Let's wait until we can look at the official investigation report before jumping to a conclusion about these folks.

As folks interested in emergency preparedness and survival skills, it seems to me we want to take to heart being more deliberate than the crowd. What we can observe already is that the crowd gets very excited and runs with their first impression, eager to condemn someone. Probable lesson: try not to come to the attention of the mob.

This thread would be more useful if it turned into a "What would you do in that situation?" thread.

If you are lacking a phone that works, or a personal locater beacon, what would be the best action to take if you are lost in a dry area where natural wildfires have not been allowed? You can't signal a plane that isn't there, so a mirror is only useful at times.

Besides "Don't get lost in the first place," or "I'm always prepared so I wouldn't have to light a fire," what should these folks have done?

Some thoughts.

Preparation: Get map, compass, gps, maybe satellite image of area. Study the map and image. Plan the hike. Consider what to do and where to go if an unforseen event occurs. Take enough gear to sustain you for longer than the planned hike if need be. Leave a hike plan, with schedule and contact numbers, with a trusted relative or friend, or the appropriate park official.

Take your survival stuff, including signalling gear and perhaps a reminder card of what to do if you realize you are lost. Typically, sit and prepare a snack or hot beverage; eat and drink the snack while thinking through the situation and formulating / re-visiting your unforseen event plan; usually stay put, stay together, and signal for help.

If you decide a signal fire is appropriate, plan it carefully, build it carefully, assemble what you need to put it out before you light it, and tend it carefully to generate either smoke or flame depending on which is going to be most visible.

Have your signal mirror ready if overflights are in the area, and for when you think rescue is in the air near you.

Assuming dry grass, slide your foot sideways to rake the grass out of the dirt (or at least most of it), making an area much much larger than the size of the planned fires (you will have three, right Chris?). If there is any wind, make that "bare" area larger in the downwind direction. Be ready to stomp out anything that starts to burn outside of your bare area. Pray a lot...

Well, for the purposes of creating a long-lasting distress signal, how about just writing a huge “SOS” or “V” on the ground using available material, whether that be orange trash bags, rocks, brush, etc.? That would cover aerial search pretty well, and be completely passive once established, unlike a fire. For nearby ground spotting, the best thing I can think of to replace the smoke from a fire as a long-term signal would be a whistle.

Nighttime would be more difficult, and a strobe is the first thing to come to my mind… combined with the aforementioned whistle.