Another Chris Reeve Disappointment

Posted by: ulfhedinn

Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 09:44 AM

Don't want to be a bore but another Chris Reeve knife "went" at knifetests. com: Project I. Even Noss seems to be "shattered" grin. Since this is a different kind of steel than the last one now the Reeve factory seems to have a real problem.
Posted by: Buffalohump

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 09:49 AM

ehhh.... that's a bummer - I have a Project I!

I suppose I'll have to check out the gory details...

The fall-out after the Green Beret test was bad enough, I guess the knives will really be out now (scuse the pun).

EDIT: I took a quick look... don't know what to think about that. On the one hand I would never purposely try to break a knife by hammering on it. On the other hand there have been other knives costing far less that have endured more punishment in these tests.

Perhaps it has something to do with the lateral strength of certain steels? Or perhaps the serrations are to blame?

I would still be happy to take my Project I on a trip and I'm sure it would do everything I asked of it. I have batoned the crap out of mine and all it did was lose a bit of coating.

It does give one pause for thought however. But are these tests now to be the ultimate decider on what makes a good knife or not?

I don't expect my knives to perform like crowbars, I just want them to cut well.

Posted by: ironraven

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 10:12 AM

These guys are the Beavis and Butthead of knife testing. Sure, you MIGHT be able to argue that their *cough* methodology has a minor degree of validity, but the same logic says you could evaluate a car by pushing it over a cliff. Some of what they do has a place, but if you beat on ANYTHING hard enough and it will break.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 11:57 AM

I'd be interested to know if these knives would stand up to the Mors Kochanski test. Will the handle hold your weight when driven laterally into a tree 4cm.

I suspect they would but if here are any knives on the knifetests.com page that might fail that one it would be the Reeve knives.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 11:58 AM

Look, I do understand that these test are extreme. But knowing what we know know... I mean, you are going to be stranded in the wilderness or you are going on a military mission... Is Chris Reeve your first choise when you just can take one piece of steel? And more: why has a knife got to be this big and heavy when you are just using it for fine cutting?
Posted by: Buffalohump

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 12:32 PM

I do think this testing thing is getting a bit out of hand...

Personally I like knives that slice well.

IMO in a camp-out scenario, knives are used for food prep more than anything. So a good slicer is what I want.

If I'm camping out, I will take my axe with me to do any chopping work. Why? Because its the most efficient tool for the job. And I do enjoy a good axe work-out.

The problem arises when people say: "what if you can only take one tool to do everything?".

So now a knife has to be a slicer, a chopper AND a prybar.

Personally I think 99% of jobs can be handled by a SAK and a small axe or hatchet.

The military scenario is another ballgame. I guess if I was in the military I would be looking at knives other than Chris Reeve right now. There are plenty of options to choose from.

If I was forced to take just one knife that I might have to trust my life on, I would have to think long and hard about my choice.

In terms of size, weight, cutting ability and all round efficiency, I would probably still take a OH Trekker. Why chop when it has one of the best small saws around?

I hate to say it, but the most useful and practical knife in my collection is also the cheapest.

Boy, I hope my wife never reads this! LOL


Posted by: Bear_Claw_Chris_Lapp

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 01:30 PM

I can cave in the hood of a Porsche with a sledgehammer, does that mean it's a junk car?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
In my book any outdoorsman worth his bologna doesn't just carry a big fixed blade. He carries a SAK, a fixed and maybe an axe or hatchet. I do.


To each his own. I'm sure any Sami outdoorsman worth his bologna would beg to differ as he pulls out his Leuku to take appart a reindeer. I sometimes carry a big fixed blade but I always have a small fixed blade in an outdoors setting...that's the one tool which is indespensible to me. It's not always practical to carry an axe but I usually try to carry the classic bushcraft combo of a good fixed blade knife, a saw, and a small axe.

I don't care what they cost as long as it's quality. I know many of you feel otherwise but you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to get quality if you're patient,watch for deals, and do your homework.

Buying a name (like Chris Reeve for example) isn't a good criteria in my books. Most knife makers (custom and otherwise) make good knives and also make not to good knives. Price isn't always a good indicator of 'goodness' either.
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 04:05 PM

I believe the fault lies w/ the user it's pretty clear to me the knife failed due to improper technique. Battoning is a skill and knives can break quite easily if you are not careful.

Battoning steel to steel is recipe for disaster even using a stone for a batton is unwise.

Adam

PS - I’m astonished at the ability to destroy a $350 knife and not understand why it happened.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 05:26 PM

Again, I do edmit these tests seem very hard and not to the point:
a knife is used for cutting is it not? But doesn't Cody Lundin say that multi-use is a good thing?
Then I want to ad an example. Say you are making a new BOB and are looking for a good axe. Say there is this website called axetests.com. They test axes by crushing stones with the back of the axe. Everybody knows this is not what an axe is made for and it is going to destroy your axe.
First axe, 350 dollar, breaks and is unusable
Second axe, 50 dollar, no damage that limits usability
What axe are you going to buy? I know!
Posted by: Dan_McI

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 05:26 PM

As much as I realize that page is all about destroying a knife, I kind of like seeing the things that make them fail or otherwise become damaged. If you are going to be rough on it, then knowing it's limits can be useful. It's not going to become the standard by which I evaluate all knives.

Also, I'm not going to do those things with a knife, but I did remember the tests on the Kabar before banging mine into tree last weekend.
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 05:57 PM

Either these guys have great day jobs, or the chicom steel industry is paying them off. To bad they don't seppuku test a Cold Steel Tanto.Remember, children who torture small animals grow into adults who torture people. Today it's knives, tommorow 747s?
Posted by: Leigh_Ratcliffe

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
Either these guys have great day jobs, or the chicom steel industry is paying them off. To bad they don't seppuku test a Cold Steel Tanto.Remember, children who torture small animals grow into adults who torture people. Today it's knives, tommorow 747s?


Amen to that.

So they broke another knife. So why am I not impressed?

I can see the logic behind accelerated edge testing and the like, but no-one except possibly The Hulk is ever going to be able to exert enough pressure on a Reeve, Benchmade, Buck etc to snap it.
You might break them batoning - but only if you are willing to stand there and whollop it for a day or three.
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 06:32 PM

The technique shown in the video was seriously flawed.

If anyone wants to send me a Project 1 for testing I’m sure I can batton though a piece of wood without breaking it. Unfortunately I could only post pics not a video of it...... cool

Adam
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: ulfhedinn
Say there is this website called axetests.com. They test axes by crushing stones with the back of the axe. Everybody knows this is not what an axe is made for and it is going to destroy your axe.
First axe, 350 dollar, breaks and is unusable
Second axe, 50 dollar, no damage that limits usability
What axe are you going to buy? I know!


Which $50 knife passed the test? Just curious.....

Adam
Posted by: Russ

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 07:02 PM

I'm going to buy the axe that chops wood best(meaning that the edge profile, steel and heat treat should be better). Breaking rocks is a good test for a sledge hammer, not too meaningful for an axe.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 07:34 PM

To Ironraven: The "Beavis and Butthead" comment is funny. Really it is! But as Dan_Mcl points out: "I kind of like seeing the things that make the knives fail or otherwise become damaged". OK, it is pointless hitting a Porsche with a sledge but they do crashtest all cars! A car is for driving and moving stuff not for crashing it into a concrete wall, is it? What those guys do isn't that much different. I don't want to label them as children that torture small animals, because there are entire nations who consider just carrying a knife as sacriligious as some consider knifetest.com destroying one.
And there are cheap knives (less then 50 dollar) that go a long way: GI Tanto, Cheaper Than Dirt even the Bushman. I do love bushcraft and outdoorskills but in a survival situation you just don't know what problem lays ahead.
Posted by: Russ

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 08:27 PM

But if you test a knife's ability to stand up to abuse it is not designed or intended to do and it fails, what have you proven. Some cheap knives may pass that test because they've been tempered to a lower Rc in order to make them tougher. They won't hold an edge as well and would thoroughly suck at slicing because they were ground with a thick edge, but they can handle brick and rocks. I'd prefer a knife that cuts well and test for that. YMMV
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 08:44 PM

www.cutleryscience.com

There ya go (another fine site with some semblance of actual science)

Personally I sort of like the site...to a point. It's nice to know what the limits are. I think it's a pretty naive view to think you'll never ever abuse a knife. You hope it never happens of course but situations can drive us to desparate measures...and accidents happen no matter how careful we are.

The Gerber LMF II did fairly well in his tests. But this knife was designed with escaping a crashed helicopter in mind...it was intended to be driven through metal. God forbid I should ever be in that situation but if I were and the knife snapped, then I'd be stuck AND without a knife to survive with once I egressed (I've always thought that was a funny term).

When I do search and rescue I carry this knife as a second knife partly because it's nice to have a big knife when you don't have an axe or a machete or something but also because if I need to dig somebody out of trouble, I know it's going to hold up to whatever seems like a good idea at the time. I don't even pretend to think what that situation might be but whatever it is, I know I have a suitable tool thanks to that site...call it a sharpened pry bar if you like but I won't be carving figurines or slicing tomatoes with it anyhow.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 08:48 PM

But the Chris Reeve is not designed as a hunting knife, it is a survival knife. You just do not know in advance what you intend to or have to do with the steel. Just out of curiosity I bought the GI Tanto and I can say it is shaving sharp and I can sharpen it this way myself. So it doesn't suck at slicing at all. The edge holding may be (maybe) less than Chris Reeve but in the field I am better at sharpening than at welding.
Posted by: Art_in_FL

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 09:04 PM

Once saw a knife test from different folk. All the knives were destroyed. except the one made out of titanium. Which was bent back and forth past ninety degrees but worked as well as it ever did once straightened. Down side to titanium is it never gets very hard so it never gets shaving sharp or holds much of an edge.

which makes it seems to be the perfect knife, except for being perpetually dull. But then again who does that to a knife. Where is that a job requiremnt.

Reminds me of the PB Blaster advertisement. They squirt it into Styrofoam cup and rejoice when the cup dissolves. The implies message is that this test proves its superiority. Well ... it does ... in a way. It proves it is superior if the job your trying to do is dissolve Styrofoam cups.

Pays to keep your eye on the ball. If your job requirements are such that you abuse your knifes in a similar way then this sort of abusive testing is going to tell you a lot and will provide you with useful information. If your requirements don't ... then that sort of abusive testing is an easily discounted curiosity.

But if you want nearly indestructible, even at the ability to hold an edge, you might want to look at one of the titanium knives.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 09:22 PM

Titanium is a great choice for corrosion resistance...Titanium simply doesn't rust.

There are more than a few knives out there which are tempered for that and can hold up to the same treatment. The Cold Steel Bushman can be bent well past 90 degrees and still comes back straight. And that's a knife that can be had for less than $30 retail.
Posted by: KG2V

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 09:23 PM

OK - just remember guys - Pick a steel, ANY steel - the harder you make that steel, the more likely it is to snap, the harder to sharpen, but the longer it holds an edge - make your trade as YOU see fit

Change steel - you can get tougher (less likely to snap), harder, etc - sometimes at the cost of things like rust resistance - why do you think D-2 is well loved - good tough blades, holds an edge - but it rusts if you ignore it

Now - do some research into various steels - then decide what features YOU want - and realize that steel A hardened to say Rc-58 might be a LOT tougher than steel B at RC-58, but a LOT more prone to rust or taking a permenant bend, etc
Posted by: Stretch

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Bear_Claw_Chris_Lapp
I can cave in the hood of a Porsche with a sledgehammer, does that mean it's a junk car?


Why yes, I would say after a man beat it to death, it would be junk. ((( laugh )))

Same thing for the CR.... take a $400 knife, subject it punishment it was never designed for and, when you're done, it'll be....junk. I'd hate to see what that "knife tester" would be doing to knives if he had access to nuclear explosives......
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/18/08 11:33 PM

Originally Posted By: ulfhedinn
But the Chris Reeve is not designed as a hunting knife, it is a survival knife.


A very interesting statement. Since you seem to draw a distinction between two classes of "outdoors" knives, how would you define your terms, or at least how the two differ. Particularly since you use a tanto, a blade pattern that a no small number of outdoormen would consider to be lacking in versatility.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 06:53 AM

I'm not that stubborn not to admit that all the arguments for treating a knive decent and appropriate are very valid. While there is no clear distinction between a hunting and a survival knife the use of it makes the destinction. I see a hunting scenario as a situation where you decide to go out in the woods for a limited time and carry the things you think you will need. A survival situation is sudden and you just don't know what you are going to encounter and so it is almost impossible to plan perfectly. You might not have everything you need with you. So a hunting knife is used for specific tasks and a survival knife for as much tasks as possible. You can not deny that the Project I is very different from a knife for example from Bark River or so. So I do expect a survival knife to be able to be treated not that carefully. About the GI Tanto: I got interested after seeing the test and I wanted to feel it myself. I do admit the Tanto point is far from perfect for a survival scenerio but so is a military oriented knive that breaks on metal to metal contact.
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 01:18 PM

Unfortunately the test for me is useless and shows nothing more than how to break a knife. There is very little in that test that broke the knife which actually simulates anything that could happen in a survival situation, especially a wilderness situation.

First, if you were to be battoning a piece of wood I doubt you would have it clamped in a vise. Strike one

Second, I very much doubt you would have a 5# hammer to smash the spine of the knife with. Strike two.

Third, LEARN HOW TO BATTON WOOD PROPERLY. Since the technique used was as poor as it gets, the breaking of the knife in my view was intentional. Strike three.

What was proven to me was the user has no skills in handling a knife.

Adam

PS I looked at the bushman test and looks like he’s capable of breaking a $30 knife too.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 01:22 PM

This is a stretch but bear with me. Last night I recieved training on how to lever and crib debris off of a trapped person using the scenario of a tornado. In that case we had a big bar to use as a fulcrum.

A lot of emphasis was put on the fact that in a disaster, you're lucky to have any equipment at all sometimes as there could be thousands of casualties which need levers, volunteers, tools ,etc...who's to say there's enough to go around? We had to improvise and make cribbing out of the debris we were removing as we removed it...it was a real problem solving experience and made all the more critical as there were bodies in the pile we couldn't neccessarily see at first.

After I got home I thought of scenarios where I might be by myself and need to do this. I don't carry a pry bar in my car and the one which comes with the jack is not suitable for prying. The only other thing I would have handy which one could pry with is a knife (assuming I had a fixed blade to use). Obviously not the best option but I could see rare situations where a knife could be your only available lever. You might not be able to lift anything very high with one but with enough suitable cribbing that's only a matter of patience.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 01:55 PM

Adam, we should stop thinking that we will be in a rural area whan disaster strikes - where we can batton wood properly. As a citizen of Long Island you should realise the first things you are going to encouter after a storm or an earthquake etc. is steel, concrete, brick. Maybe you get trapped indoor. You nore I have enough imagination to anticipate what exactly can happen. But as Ironraven points out you will find yourself in rubble of every kind. Offcourse you should use proper technique but what if your not able to? The tests on knifetest.com seem random but they are an exemple of order, technique and tidiness compared to a real situation.
Posted by: Naseem

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 02:22 PM

Folks,

Don't argue the extremes of the usefulness of the knife tests. If there is really a need for standardized testing of knives, then we should seek to set up a body of personnel to perform these tasks. All the arguments in this forum (more specifically - this thread) point to the need for proper equipment reviews.

Now in the area of survival, there is more to the subject than just carrying the "ultimate super ultra deluxe most bestest" knife. My thoughts are outlined below:

Being prepared:
-Carry the best equipment (yes - including the knife(s)) possible (within your limitations of budget, weight, situation, etc.)
-Practice your skills frequently and regularly
-Test your equipment and perform frequent and regular maintenance.

In an emergency, you might not have the best knife possible. What does this mean? Is it that without your fancy knife you will just roll over and die? How about trying to conserve on your resources as much as possible? How about treating your equipment with care? Is it possible to split wood by hitting it against a rock rather then battoning it?

A situation called an "emergency" usually does not have much that is regular or normal about it. The ability to make do with what is at hand is sometimes the difference between survival and failure.

Hmmm... Am having difficulty wading through my own thoughts here. Time to get some lunch - now where did I put my katana? I need to battle some calories...
Posted by: Dan_McI

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 03:21 PM

I'd never put a knife through what knifetests.com does, I view it as something kind of like crash-testing a car. I don't intend to crash a car into a concrete wall, but the tests are designed to show you want happens if you accidently do so.

Knifetests.com calls their tests "destruction" tests. kc2ixe recently posted about a job he had in "environmental testing." It pretty much seemed to be trying things out to see if you could break them.

Knifetests.com take a knife and puts it knife through a bunch of crap to see how it takes the punishment, and in the end, the knife is probably going destroyed. Destruction testing an item may have some benefit, but it is not the end all and be all. Look at the tests, and take it for what you think it's worth. If you think they are worthless, don't look at them.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 03:40 PM

What do you all think of Doug Ritters fixed blade as a survival knife?
The Sock
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 04:04 PM

I know I'm not really answering the question but the best survival knife is the one you have with you.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Naseem
Is it possible to split wood by hitting it against a rock rather then battoning it?


For that matter, exactly why would I want to split wood in a survival situation? Fuzz it up, sure. Split it? How about picking smaller sticks for kindling use?

FWIW, I carry one of those little wire saws. The way I figure it cutting may be critical, splitting? Notsomuch.

-john
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 05:32 PM

It's not always possible to find appropriately sized sticks for kindling...depending of course on where you are.
Posted by: Stu

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnN
Originally Posted By: Naseem
Is it possible to split wood by hitting it against a rock rather then battoning it?


For that matter, exactly why would I want to split wood in a survival situation? Fuzz it up, sure. Split it? How about picking smaller sticks for kindling use?

FWIW, I carry one of those little wire saws. The way I figure it cutting may be critical, splitting? Notsomuch.

-john

If the outside of the wood is soaked, splitting can get you into the drier center and make it easier to build a fire.
Posted by: Stu

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnN
Originally Posted By: Naseem
Is it possible to split wood by hitting it against a rock rather then battoning it?


For that matter, exactly why would I want to split wood in a survival situation? Fuzz it up, sure. Split it? How about picking smaller sticks for kindling use?

FWIW, I carry one of those little wire saws. The way I figure it cutting may be critical, splitting? Notsomuch.

-john

Go use the saw, cut 15 pieces of wood or so, make a few traps with the saw. Then tell us what you think.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 06:28 PM


Seems like typically you can compensate with shavings.

In reality it seems like there is only a narrow window of wood sizes you are going to be able to baton anyway.

I guess I'd say splitting wood might be more useful in the case of wood that is wet externally.

Anyways, I think people should endeavor to be able to compensate for variance in the materials they have at hand.

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By: SBRaider
Go use the saw, cut 15 pieces of wood or so, make a few traps with the saw. Then tell us what you think.


You mean like landing on an aircraft carrier? I don't think it's strong enough. :-p

-john
Posted by: Nicodemus

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 06:35 PM

The only disappointment I felt was after realizing I wasted 40 minutes watching these "tests".

Actually, I take that back. At first I was fine with the slicing, cutting, chopping, second cutting, first baton, third cutting, and digging tests. I only started to think it was all a waste when the host started placing the blade on an angle, began to hit it with the three pound hammer and failed to hit the blade directly on the spine several times.

Friggin' shocker... Torque on the blade caused a relatively brittle steel to break...

I probably wouldn't have been so disappointed in these "tests" if they were undertaken with very strict protocols, but when you introduce the human element into testing there's going to be vast number of variations. He was holding both the hammer and knife in his hands and striking one against the other at different angles with variable force. You could counter with, "humans will be using these blades in the field, not machines." and that's valid to a point. However, it also negates any type of ranking system between various blades from different manufacturers. It could very well be an odd variable and not an attribute of the blade that allows one knife to survive longer than another.

You could argue that the first tests that I was OK with had a human element in them, and I'd agree. I'd also say that they were a little more forgiving of variation.

On a side note...

I neither own nor have any interest in Chris Reeve knives because they're beyond what I'm willing to pay for a blade. So, I don't have to defend him based on my experience. However, I feel the need to question your (ulfhedinn) motives when you state, "Since this is a different kind of steel than the last one now the Reeve factory seems to have a real problem." based on a "test" that shows obvious user error.

You also have a total of 28 posts, many of which (12 I believe) are within 2 threads started by you and with the titles "Chris Reeve Disappointment" and "Another Chris Reeve Disappointment"

Are you intentionally trying to slander Chris Reeve and his work?

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Nicodemus
The only disappointment I felt was after realizing I wasted 40 minutes watching these "tests".


+1

I like knowing the limits of certain blades regardless of his imperfect and inconsistent technique but I skip through those videos so fast that I usually watch the whole set in under 5 minutes skipping through trying to find just the bits with a 'failure'.

I definately skip the first parts. Watching a grown man try to peel an apple with a huge combat knife while wearing gloves and a mask isn't my idea of a good time.

The only thing I wonder when doing this is how does he sharpen the knives? Sometimes he uses them as they come, sometimes he sharpens them...and sometimes a lot and sometimes only a little. That's going to have a great deal of impact on how well a knife cuts 10,000lb webbing.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 07:59 PM

Are you intentionally trying to slander Chris Reeve and his work?
Yes I am! I am the productmanager for a big European knifemanufacturer and this guy, Chris Reeve, is going down right now! Ah, come on!!!
I 'm just a guy who is interested in survival and survival related stuff eg knives, shelter... For more than 30 years I have been practicing and reading about survival. Why should I be trying to slander anyone? It just strikes me that one of the best know and most reputable manufacturers comes out very poorly in these tests. I just am very surprised as I have said before. CR knives are marketed as military knives, just have a look at the website! I would be a lot less surprised if knifetest.com would break a fine hunting or bushcraft knife, let's say Bark River or Karesuando etc. Why two posts about Chris Reeve? Well if they managed to break one so early it could have been bad luck, but two knives from the same manufacturer? Cold Steel has even stronger marketing with DVD's like "Solid Proof" and "Sword Proof" and it would have been equaly remarkable if those knives had consistently performed badly.
And again: I do know about caring for your knife, choosing the right knife for the job... And I also like and use the smaller, more vulnerable knives with the same enthousiasm. I just think the results from knifetests.com can not be dimissed just like that!
Please don't judge someone on the amount of posts! I have been an avid reader and just sometimes poster because of my profession. I just don't have the time to post much. But if you do want to play: I registered almost a year earlier than yourself and at that time had been reading "Equipped" for years.
Posted by: KG2V

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: ulfhedinn
Adam, we should stop thinking that we will be in a rural area whan disaster strikes - where we can batton wood properly. As a citizen of Long Island you should realise the first things you are going to encouter after a storm or an earthquake etc. is steel, concrete, brick. ...snip...


If he's out on the east end, it could be rural

Of course, you're NOT going to carry a large fixed blade on you in the "less rural" areas of LI - and if your going to leave it in your car/truck, throw a wrecking bar in there, or even a halligan tool
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 09:19 PM

I think ulf has a valid point when these knives are being promoted as military knives.

It's been my experience both from reading real life accounts and from friends I know in the military that the folks in the armed forces are harder on blades than anybody (save our friend at knifetests.com) and could easily ask a lot of a knife and need it to perform a task for which it wasn't designed. Almost any time I hear 'the tips break off easily' or 'They won't hold an edge worth a damn' it's coming from the mouth of a friend who is in or used to be in the military...they just ask that much more from their tools.

I'd be willing to bet that over wherever it is out fighting forces are sent it's not an uncommon sight to see blade vs metal and blade vs concrete as much as it is to see blade vs MRE packaging. I've heard stories of snipers using their knives to chop a hole in a brick wall to make a gun port and knives used to hack through barbed wire to disentangle a trapped comrade...I'm sure the list goes on nearly infinitely.

Now that being said, I'm sure none of them are using a sledge to pound the blade into something but it's still food for thought.
Posted by: Russ

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 09:20 PM

Exactly. I've got a $10 prybar that excels at prying. Won't slice worth a d*mn, but I have folder for that job. No fixed blade required.
Posted by: Glass

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 09:35 PM

Function testing versus destructive testing:

I have issues when a ranking system is applied to a product based on subjective testing. I say “subjective” because there is no real way a person can cut the exact same way every time. In order to have an accurate and fair test, there must be a system to ensure an equal amount of force is used, in the same direction, for the same period of time.

Some dude saying the knife felt like it cut better doesn’t meet any real standards of consistency.

Cutting 2x4s isn’t fair because no two boards are alike. One can have easy to split straight grain while another may be a board pulled from Satan’s back deck and have grain like a maze. You need a consistent medium for cutting tests to be of any real value.

Cutting steel? BS. A cold chisel would cruise through that test but would make a crappy knife wouldn’t it? Why, because it is design to cut steel.

The comparisons to automobile crash testing are wrong because the auto crash testing is designed to, under strictly controlled conditions, show how the vehicle protects the passengers, not what it takes to destroy the vehicle. If we just wanted to destroy the vehicle, there are easier ways to do it.

I could literally go on for pages and pages about the issues I have with this type of testing but it would be pointless. For me, I will not be basing my knife choices on what I see on that site.

If I want a knife that will chop better, I will seek out a knife with the correct blade geometry and correct temper to perform that action. I also won’t complain when an axe (great chopper) sucks for delicate slicing. You must seek out the correct tool for the job. If you are using a knife outside its intended use, don’t be surprised if it fails to do it well.

Nobody is surprised that a Hummer would suck for drag racing. No one would find it distressing that a rail-job doesn’t handle off roading well.

I acknowledge the argument that in an emergency we’d need to use our tools beyond their intended purpose. However, to what level do we expect a tool to function beyond the design? I wouldn’t fault a light summer sleeping bag for not keeping me toasty warm in sub-zero temps.

Finally a quick aside: why is it people get all wound up about how sharp a knife comes from a manufacturer but don’t bat an eye about a Glock or Kimber’s break in period? A Kimber’s groups reportedly don’t start to tighten up until a couple hundred rounds have gone through them, does that make it a piece of junk?

These are, of course, merely my opinions on the matter.

Patrick
Posted by: Nicodemus

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 09:59 PM

If I wanted to play I wouldn't have asked you about your intent at all, and if I wanted to be confrontational for the sake of confrontation I'd have gone a different route altogether.

I saw something that I thought was suspicious and asked about it. You gave me a sufficient answer. I accept your answer regarding your intent.

I will disagree with you and do believe the results can be dismissed.

The tests on the site you linked are severely flawed, especially in the light of comparing one knife to another based on those tests as they were performed. There is no way a claim that the tests were exactly the same can be made.

Regarding this, I will say that at least they used a torque wrench while testing some of the knives in latter stages. Still, even then many variables could still apply.

Posted by: ironraven

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/19/08 11:24 PM

Originally Posted By: ulfhedinn
I see a hunting scenario as a situation where you decide to go out in the woods for a limited time and carry the things you think you will need. A survival situation is sudden and you just don't know what you are going to encounter and so it is almost impossible to plan perfectly.


Well, my perspective isn't escaping from an urban environment. It is based on hunting, camping and fishing in places where, guess what, if something goes wrong you might be there for a few days, assuming the weather doesn't kill you before you get out on your own or get found. I think, nay, KNOW I need to be prepared for that, anything else is irresponsible and delusional.

My choices are very similar to the knives carried by woodsmen in this area 200-300 years ago (although, I will admit to having replaced the patch knife with a SAK and/or multitool, and the hatchet with a small bow saw), who operated on exactly the same principle. If you aren't going to be able to crawl home by night, be ready to spend the night. Short of the metal-on-metal (not planning on being mauled by a cybernetically enhanced coyote) or metal-on-brick (nor getting mugged by a golem), the way I use a "hunting" knife is exactly as you have described a "survival" knife. The only knives I baby are my really good kitchen knives, my field knives don't live a tea party life, far from it.

As for what I can or can not "deny"... The Project I's blade isn't quite perfect, but it would do. A number of spear point blades were used by traditional outdoors men and still are by their modern counterparts, and even broader and thicker designs of double edged blades (as opposed to daggers and dirks- double edged knives that resembled shorter, sharper Roman gladii were in common use in the outdoors through much of the 1800s and before), even if my personal taste might run to the PII or the Sables.
Posted by: Homer

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 01:23 AM

Just curious, ulfhedinn, what knife do you have and could it stand up to the same kind of testing?
Posted by: Todd W

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 02:22 AM

I have a Chris Reeve knife (Shadow). It is a nice knife and is a 'survival' knife but the grip is terrible, it causes blisters, and your hands to slip. I prefer my RAT-7 over it any day of the week! Better grip (awesome), better at chopping, still a beastly strong knife, good at holding a blade (D2).

The CR knife is plenty strong for prying wood (as shown in video), I have done very little of it, but did dig out some sappy pine wink

I plan to sell my CR Shadow here shortly and possibly get a 2nd Rat-7 in 1095, unsure. If I was rich I'd try out the CR Neil Roberts knife, but for the $ it looks darn close to a Rat-7 just in a fancier steel... oh well laugh

Input from someone who owns a CR knife.
-Todd
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 05:00 AM

I imagine if people tossed out at least one of the SAKs, big folder, fixed beltknife, spare Moras , multi tool, hatchet,survival rifle bayonet, Kukhri, ATAX, Spetsnaz survival machete, swedish bow saw, wire saw and razor blades in the PSK, sharpening kits they could maybe find space and wieght reduction enough to justify a few fistfulls of Fatwood and not worry about batoning a knife with a brick and breaking it in the first place. I am starting my own testing website. We will be subjecting signal mirrors to drop tests, putting them in a hip pocket and sitting down and flashing them in the eyes of oncoming big rig tuck drivers.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 11:21 AM

But Chris, the example you give is just excellent to proof the point. Signal mirrors will be
dropped in the field! They just will be dropped. Why is Keri Kliemann from Ultimate Survival
so proud to present the new StarFlash Ultra in the interview with Doug Ritter? It reflects more
sunlight and still is unbreakable! You know Murphy’s law!
In defense of knifetests.com, I think it’s not “animal cruelty”, but just the curiousness of boys
and men. Raise your hands if you never wanted to know what was inside the radio and then
when you found out were not able to put it back together again! See! No hands, so we are all guilty.
Who never wondered about what exactly your favorite knife could handle? Who did not think
about doing the Mors Kochanski test but did not do it because you just spend to much for the
knife? I for sure wanted to, but did not take the risk. Well the boys from knifetests take it to
that limit. You are right that in the end everything can be broken but it is nice to know just
when an item breaks.
I do not completely agree with tossing some steel and replacing it with several fistfulls of
fatwood. I do carry tinder but in the end you will run out and than it’s better to have some tool
so you can gather it yourself. Additionally if you are tossing out the heavy stuff: SAKs, big
folder, fixed beltknife, spare Moras , multi tool, hatchet,survival rifle bayonet, Kukhri,
ATAX, Spetsnaz survival machete, swedish bow saw, wire saw and razor blades in the PSK -
you will have to choose someting that can do most of the tasks all the other stuff can do. And
that is going to have to be one hell of a rugged blade!
For Homer. I own several knives but the one i like most now is the CS San Mai Master
Hunter. I tend to go for smaller knives now. I like the flat ground and the handle is very
comfortable ( but not as durable as micarta). It is razor sharp and again: I can sharpen it
myself. The steel should perform as the Fallkniven did in the test, since it is also laminated
steel . As a bonus it is modestly priced. Not the cheapest but a long way from CRK. Should it
ever be tested and performs badly, it will have to go!
Posted by: Tjin

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 11:42 AM

You can test things to the extreme and you can test to realistic scenario's. Dropping a signal mirror happens all the time, but putting a knife in a vice and hit it, well i haven't seen that happening anytime soon.

Designs and materials used for a tool are made to do a specific task. Thats why a prybar is better at prying, a shovel better at digging, etc. Expecting a tool can do everything well, even though it's not designed to do so, is not really realistic.

All you have to know, is what the limits are of the tools you are carring with you at the time you really need them. It doesn't have to be able to pry or dig. Thats why you are carring a tool, so you can make something to do that
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: SBRaider[/quote

If the outside of the wood is soaked, splitting can get you into the drier center and make it easier to build a fire.


BINGO!

Adam
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 04:08 PM

So you saying you gonna baton THAT with your survival/hunting knife? :-)

-john
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnN
So you saying you gonna baton THAT with your survival/hunting knife? :-)

-john


Yes I do quite regularly batton wood of that size with a knife. 6”-8” rounds can easily be batton into sections leaving a dry center piece of wood. Go slowly and carefully enough and you can batton almost and knife through any wood. I remember a post on blade forums where someone battoned wood with an opinel folder. That would be interesting to find again. grin

Adam
Posted by: adam

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ulfhedinn
Adam, we should stop thinking that we will be in a rural area whan disaster strikes - where we can batton wood properly. As a citizen of Long Island you should realise the first things you are going to encouter after a storm or an earthquake etc. is steel, concrete, brick. Maybe you get trapped indoor. You nore I have enough imagination to anticipate what exactly can happen. But as Ironraven points out you will find yourself in rubble of every kind. Offcourse you should use proper technique but what if your not able to? The tests on knifetest.com seem random but they are an exemple of order, technique and tidiness compared to a real situation.


IMO, if you are in a survival situation then you need to be EXTRA careful about technique. A glancing blow while chopping could suddenly change your situation from just a few rough days to one of immediate assistance required. Search the website for Chris K's island adventure where one of the party steps on a stingray. Focused and deliberate is what you need to be.

Storms, earthquakes etc. these are all things that can be prep’d for. Search for Schwert’s EDC article he has been through an earthquake and has taking steps to prepare for possible future event. BTW, yes he has a prybar available and so I. wink

Adam
Posted by: Stu

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: adam
Originally Posted By: SBRaider

If the outside of the wood is soaked, splitting can get you into the drier center and make it easier to build a fire. [/quote


BINGO!

Adam

A interesting article on batoning
http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf
Posted by: Dan_McI

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 05:14 PM

I watched the video clips yesterday on knifetests.com in which the Rough Use Knife sold by cheaperthandirt.com was put through the wringer. Now, I never seem myself taking a 3 pound sledge hammer and pounding it into a block of concrete. I doubt I'd let anyone do that with any knife I owned. But seeing that $10 knife take being chopped and pounded into both wood and concrete left an impression.

I've got relatives with two children, one almost 5 and one just over a year, for whom I've been thinking about putting together a bug-out kit, or at lest the start of one. I know there will be a Mora in any such kit, but one of these might find it's way in there too.

I cannot see myself changing my mind about a knife I wanted because pounding it into concrete or metal plate broke it. But, the fact that something can take abuse and still be ok is not a negative.
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/20/08 09:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Dan_McI
the fact that something can take abuse and still be ok is not a negative.

OK, that's the point I wanted to make! How can it possibly be that a 10 dollar knife can take more abuse than one that sells for 350. I thought a lot about it. What is this magical quality that is missing in a cheaper knive? Would it not be great to buy a couple of those cheaperthandirt knives ( I can't because they don't ship over the pond) and use one to to some tests you find appropriate for your task. If you're satisfied then carry it with the confidence no marketing can provide!
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/21/08 02:13 AM

"...why would I want to split wood in a survival situation? Fuzz it up, sure. Split it? How about picking smaller sticks for kindling use..."

There is kindling, and then there is fuel. If all you have is little bitty stuff for kindling, and stuff three or more inches in diameter for fuel, you need some "go between" stuff. So you split the three inch stuff into quarters or so. Throw three inch logs on a pile of burning kindling and your fire will go out...
Posted by: dweste

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/21/08 02:29 AM

Isn't testing to failure a fairly standard test for scientific types?

Conclusions from the test data may be the subject for debate, but at least it is data, not just subjective or anecdotal information.


I cannot recall which of the giants of science gave us the hierarchy for grading input, or exactly all the grades, but it is something like:

Noise
Information
Data
Knowledge
Wisdom

Edit: well maybe this is it:

http://www.systems-thinking.org/dikw/dikw.htm

data
information
knowledge
understanding
wisdom

Anyway, the point is that the knife tests are grist for our mental mills, and therefore of some use, but are not in and of themselves necessarily either understanding or wisdom.
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/23/08 10:35 AM

Originally Posted By: TheSock
What do you all think of Doug Ritters fixed blade as a survival knife?
From what I've read, it's considered a good survival knife but a bit over-priced.

i find it a bit too wide for peeling potatoes.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/23/08 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Brangdon
Originally Posted By: TheSock
What do you all think of Doug Ritters fixed blade as a survival knife?
From what I've read, it's considered a good survival knife but a bit over-priced.

i find it a bit too wide for peeling potatoes.


Thanks for that. I suppose not having the economy of scale of the other benchmades is bound to mean a little less 'bang per buck'.
Has anyone used it? Or the folder? or the M2 folder? Which do you think is the best?
The Sock
Posted by: Paul D.

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 08:35 AM

When one of my nephews was younger my dad would say, "Give that boy 5 minutes with an anvil and he'll break it." That applies to a lot of people.

(That's not directed towards you The Sock.)
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 12:27 PM

This is something I know nothing about (I'm in the UK and can't carry anything but non-locking folders, under 3 inches blade length). So I'm glad of anyones input.
I'm planning on some backpacking in the US next year, so wanted to know what knife would be best.
The gear guide on this site recommends stainless, but some chap called Ritter was trying to sell a limited edition of carbon RSKs a few years back :-).
Wondered if the M2 was a better knife. Though of course I then need to find one!
The Sock
Posted by: wildman800

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 12:38 PM

What part of the USofA are you going backpacking at, sock?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 02:10 PM

If you can't bring the knife back, get yourself a $9 Mora.
Posted by: Dan_McI

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 02:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
If you can't bring the knife back, get yourself a $9 Mora.


I agree.

If I decided to do anything else besides that it would probably be to buy only a full-tang blank and wrap the tang with paracord for a handle. However, that's not something that simply works right out of the box. A mora would work right out of the box, and it would work well. Buy two in case something happens to the first one, and you will still save money over many other knives.

Models 640 or 660 from Ragner would get you a good knife for $7 or $8. See: http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: wildman800
What part of the USofA are you going backpacking at, sock?


The Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. The New Jersey part of the Appalachian Trail. I take it this is somewhere I can actually use some of the fire lighting/bivouac making stuff?
The Sock
Posted by: thseng

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By: TheSock
The Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. The New Jersey part of the Appalachian Trail. I take it this is somewhere I can actually use some of the fire lighting/bivouac making stuff?
The Sock

Ah, my old stomping grounds. Sorry, no fires allowed. Leave no trace and all that, you know.

This is one place where a no fire rule can be justified - The area is generally high and dry and can become a tinderbox in the summer.

A little more info in this post.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 06:09 PM

ok; forget the knife advice folks!
hmmm anywhere else near nj i can walk and light campfires?
The Sock
Posted by: Nicodemus

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/25/08 07:38 PM

Check the National Parks Website for regional parks and their individual rules. There are a number of parks where you can get Backcountry Camping Permits, but most will not allow fires except at certain designated camping areas.

Also, check the Appalachian Trail Conservancy Site for trails and backcountry shelter locations, which are open and free for hikers to use on a first-come first-serve basis. You can have fires at many of the shelters because they have established fire rings. There are also a number of sites where you can pitch a tent that have fire rings of there own.

I know here in Virginia they have "Dispersed Camping" where you can pick any spot to camp as long as you follow the "Leave No Trace" principles and it doesn't look as if the spot is overcamped. In a few almost rare places campfires are allowed if it hasn't been a very dry season.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 05:04 AM

Thanks for that Nicodemus. Using designated camping areas is no problem. I can't even light a fire, I know I'm not ready to be Daniel Boone yet! :-)
One thing I don't understand: If an 8 dollar mora is all I need, why are people discussing knives costing several hundred dollars? Is it because I just want a camping knife and they are talking about a 'survival knife' they might be cutting their way out of a plane with?
The Sock
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 07:42 AM

Originally Posted By: TheSock
One thing I don't understand: If an 8 dollar mora is all I need, why are people discussing knives costing several hundred dollars?
The Sock


Almost everyone who you meet here is just as interested to talk about "Equipped to camp", "Equipped to do outdoor cooking" or "Equipped to hike". But the site is called "Equipped to survive". So that looks to me to be the starting point of all discussions. I am a big fan of Mora and Frosts knives. The thing is that there is a limit to what you can do with them. You will not need the extra strength if you go on a regular camping trip and everything goes as planned. A lot of camping guides advise just a folding knive or multitool. But if you get lost you might have to use the knife for heavier jobs. Since you say you can't even start a fire I presume you don't have all the skills you would need to survive when you are "under-equipped". Then it is worth considering carrying a stronger knive that can take some abuse (law permitting). A fine shop in the UK is www.heinnie.com. This tread started more or less with the argument that there are excellent knives that do not cost several hundred dollars.
Posted by: BillLiptak

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 12:00 PM

Part of the reason why I think some of the people have advised a 8 to 10 dollar mora is simple. I could suggest you buy a 130 dollar folder. Good blade steel, durable rugged.....able to handle the light bushcraft for a "light" hiking/camping trip AND able to hack thru some serious mess if it all goes downhill. But then when you fly back over to your side of the pond you either have to sell it, taking a big hit on the cost you paid for it, or give/throw it out soaking the full brunt of the cost.
Or I could suggest a relatively inexpensive sheath knife that will handle all the light brushcraft requiered, most if not all medium without having to be too carefull and maybe some of the heavy, "the poop hits the fan" I'm in serious trouble here stuff if you are carefull in what you do. When all the fun is over, you can still take it home, after all its much akin to a fishing fillet knife in profile and can easily find a welcome home in your kitchen.
My suggestion to you, for what its worth, is get yourself a nice swiss army knife, like a farmer, outdoorsman, or hunter. You will still be able to have it over there in the UK, then a mora, or if you want a folder a buck 110. Hunters, farmers and general outdoorsmen have been using the humble buck 110 for generations to handle the tasks at hand and it can be had for 25 bucks or less....not much to lose if you ditch it when you fly home. You can think of it as a "rental". Just my 2¢, hope you have a great time and good luck in your adventure.

-Bill Liptak
Posted by: bigreddog

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 12:49 PM

Just for clarity - in the UK, you can only edc (i.e. carry without a specific good reason) a sub 3in non locking folder.

But you can own all sorts, and if you were camping/backpacking a sheath knife would be perfectly respectable. You just have to use common sense - a Mora in your backpack while camping is fine - having it in your pocket when you go to the pub isn't.

You could certainly buy a decent sheath knife for camping and as back up if you find yourself in difficulties out in the woods. You could then check it in your luggage for the flight home, and take it home for the next trip you take.

Try Britishblades for more advice
Posted by: BillLiptak

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 01:17 PM

Thanks for the clarification, although I was only referring to having to ditch the locking folders. I didn't think the ditching of the fixed blade was needed, although it might be problematic (i.e. Less than legal) transporting it to and from the airport. Don't know what the laws there are pertaining to that.
As a side note, if its not illegal to own a locking blade, just carry it, another option could be to just ship it to your house prior to flying home.

-Bill Liptak
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 01:17 PM

Thanks everyone I think I get the picture now. A mora will be sufficient while nothing goes wrong. If it does, I might be glad of a stonger knife.
As bigreddog says I can carry anything I want in my rucsack in the UK; otherwise no one could get the kitchen knives home from the shop.
But in the UK I have no use for a sheath knife.
Think I'll go for the mora and stick to the appalachian trail, where it's difficult to get lost. Thanks for reminding me the US isn't the UK, where I can't be more than 3 miles from a road.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 01:57 PM

I definately misunderstood how your laws work.

All of the other suggestions have been great ones.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
I definately misunderstood how your laws work.

All of the other suggestions have been great ones.


uh? you were the first to suggest what most agree is the best idea; a mora.
and my SAK champ never leaves my side; thanks bill. In the UK it's the best all round knife. I don't understand why everyone doesn't carry one. But then this site would be a bit bigger if everyoen thought like us...
The Sock
Posted by: BillLiptak

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 03:36 PM

+1 on the swisschamp, I too carry it in addition to any other knives/multi-tools I strap on for the day....been carring one since 9th grade high school, 25+ years, minus the last4-5 years when I carried only a multi-tool because I lost it in a move and got too lazy to replace it. Got another one this christmas and never realized how much I trully missed it.

-Bill Liptak
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: TheSock
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
I definately misunderstood how your laws work.

All of the other suggestions have been great ones.


uh? you were the first to suggest what most agree is the best idea; a mora.
and my SAK champ never leaves my side; thanks bill. In the UK it's the best all round knife. I don't understand why everyone doesn't carry one. But then this site would be a bit bigger if everyoen thought like us...
The Sock


I suggested the Mora because I thought you would have to leave it here.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/26/08 07:14 PM


> I suggested the Mora because I thought you would have to
> leave it here.

The reality is; I might as well. I've no use for it in the UK where I can't light fires or cut wood. It all belongs to someone. So thanks for the advice.
The Sock
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 06/28/08 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: BillLiptak
Thanks for the clarification, although I was only referring to having to ditch the locking folders. I didn't think the ditching of the fixed blade was needed, although it might be problematic (i.e. Less than legal) transporting it to and from the airport.
Legally, locking folders are no worse than fixed-blade knives. You can carry either in a public place if you have a good reason, and you can have either in private places without needing the reason.

Quote:
As a side note, if its not illegal to own a locking blade, just carry it, another option could be to just ship it to your house prior to flying home.
It's not illegal to carry it if you have a good reason, any bringing it home after a trip abroad would be a good reason. So you don't need to ship it.
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 07/01/08 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: BillLiptak
+1 on the swisschamp, I too carry it in addition to any other knives/multi-tools I strap on for the day....been carring one since 9th grade high school, 25+ years, minus the last4-5 years when I carried only a multi-tool because I lost it in a move and got too lazy to replace it. Got another one this christmas and never realized how much I trully missed it.

-Bill Liptak


Let me guess: you're wife bought you one? that is what happened to me. I lost mine I'd had for 14 years in a november, so she got me one for christmas, as she could see I'd be lost without one.
They know us better than we know ourselves!
The Sock
Posted by: BillLiptak

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 07/01/08 09:10 PM

She actually had her mom get it for me, that way she/we could spoil our nephew and neices and her mom didn't have to guess as what to get me. Smart, conniving, and absolutely wonderful. She loves her little boy scout, even as she thinks I'm outta my mind half the times.

-Bill Liptak
Posted by: TheSock

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 07/02/08 09:17 AM

Let Bill and my fate be a warning to you single men out there. Never Ever assume you will run rings round them when you are married! :-)
The Sock
Posted by: ulfhedinn

Re: Another Chris Reeve Disappointment - 07/02/08 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
This seasons National Geographic Adventurer was about "The Science of Survival" and how to "Survive (Almost) Anything." Guess what knife they picked as the best overall survival knife? The USCMC Ka-Bar.


Is this the June/July issue? I will try to find it!