My improvised knife exercise

I figured I could share this here. I would have posted it earlier, but could not load pictures from work.

The last few days I have been conducting some dismounted ops training and wanted to add a bit more skills practice to the mix. My big plan was to spend 72 hours in the field using only an improvised knife of my making and use it for all related tasks.

OH man…….

I gave myself 1 hour to make a knife out of any available materials that I normally may find after a bad situation has taken place and I wanted to make it in a realistic scenario (as much as possible) I chose a standard ammo can to make the knife, with some green army string to aid in making the grip.

Using only a pair of side cutters from the LAV and a rock I pulled from the dirt I banged out a crude shape for a blade and then folded the metal over on itself to make a crude handle. Over this I wrapped the string and then proceeded to rub the blade along the gritty paint of the gun shroud of the 25mm to make and edge. I could have used better tools, but I wanted to make it as much of a challenge as possible. I used the knife over the next 3 days to do everything I normally would do with my knife in the field including cutting cordage, strapping and I chopped some wood and dropped some large branches for good measure. To top it off I used it to cut a length of wood and sharpen the stick into a crude spear. After the knife was ready I placed my trusty Gerber LMF II, my Leatherman surge and even my issued Bayonet in the LAV and took ONLY my improvised knife out on the training patrols just to see if I could make do. These are my lessons learned

Good points

-took a while to get a good edge, but was surprised at how sharp it was if not abused.
-could have been made out of a variety of other materials if need be.
-simple in design
-Cut wood well enough when used with a club to pound the back of the knife

Bad points

-very hard on the hands to make and to use. I didn’t use gloves because I didn’t want to cheat, but I cut up my hands a bit on the rough edges.
-I should have made the blade longer, but the rock and the side cutters were a big pain in the ass trying to cut the can with. It would have been better if the blade was at least 3 inches longer.
-the blade was sharp but not smooth, so it snagged a lot when cutting rope.
- it was a bit too flexible, and I had to bend it back in shape a few times.
-it needed re-sharpening frequently as the metal is not designed for such use. I wanted to improvise a sharpener as well, but could find nothing suitable. I cheated once and used my lansky pocket stone. Other times I used a metal picket to give it a reasonably adequate edge.
- I should have made a sheath of some sort.
-It lacked a Sharp enough edge to whittle wood properly, but after a couple of hours and a lot of cursing I made a decent wooden spear with it (all things considered) I could have lashed the knife itself to the wood if I really had to I guess.

All things considered it went very well. I got plenty of hard looks from my troops as they pulled out their knives to cut the ropes for Swiss seats and I pulled out this monstrosity to cut with, and more than one joke was directed my way as I sat in the rain making a spear with a piece of an ammo can.(considering I had a pistol and a rifle) but the point was to see how well a job could be done with less and I think I achieved that.

Once back I happily strapped my LMF back on, and placed my surge back in its pouch, but I walked away with a huge boost in confidence knowing that even without the proper gear the mission can still be accomplished.
Gear is great, and I think a person who spends any time outdoors should invest in the best quality afforded, but every once in a while we need to practice WITHOUT all the fancy stuff.

[img][IMG]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/taurus-135/impknife021.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][IMG]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/taurus-135/impknife022.jpg[/img][/img]

Taurus,

You are one WILD and CRAZY GUY!

Excellent the way you "Think Outside The Cave" and actually test these skills before you teach or rely on them.

Nice job and thanks for posting the results of your test.

Mike

Great exercise in improvisation!

Too many times we look for flaws in a knife and take it for granted that many knives have distinct advantages over improvised versions. However an improvised version can satisfy many tasks with ingenuity and hard work. Knowing how to improvise a cutting tool is a very valuable skill...thanks for sharing!

First let me be the first to point out how crazy you are...
...
Seriously though, we all get a kick out of your exploits!

Did you think about trying to temper it in coals? I know it's hard to do properly with crude equipment but it sounds like you couldn't have made it much worse unless your really scorched the metal away.

It's often been said that a properly heat treated knife made from crappy metal is better than a knife made from anything, no matter how expensive, if it's not hardened properly.

This is something I would never think to try. I don't even go to the mail box without a knife in my pocket.

well.........

I get called crazy lots. This may sound silly but I think of survival prep as a kind of hobby sometimes. As such, I like to fool around with stuff like this. Thats why I joined the forum. My wife and friends tease me to no end about some of the stuff I get into.

I figured all of you are the same way



Its obvious now that you mention it, but it never crossed my mind out in the field. We could not light fires but I could have tried holding it over the stove.

Next time.

ditto your psychiatric state but I gotta say... Canada has COOL camo patterns.... (yeah, way off topic, sorry).

I spent a few hours once playing with chipping rocks into cutting implements. They too work well, but dull rather quickly.

Very interesting exercise. I'm just guessing, but an ammo can is probably made of AISI 1010 steel -- not known for strength or edge holding ability. Your results were most enlightening.

If it is 1010, tempering won't do much unless you get it real hot and pound it over hot coals -- to get the extra carbon from the coals to give it hardness.

As an expedient, this obviously gave the desired results. All in all, a worthwhile learning experience for us too. Thanks Taurus.

high quality thinking..great work..nice to see someone making
something from "nothing"--like a lot of other people i'm
guilty of buying stuff and puting it in a bag and calling that
"survival"..

OK, quick improvised knife story.

Two of my friends from work, walked in a couple of miles on an early November morning to hunt deer. They split up at the location and stand-hunted at 2 different ground blinds about 500 yards apart. One guy has all of his hunting equipment in a backpack, which he placed on the ground in the blind.

A little after daylight a buck walks past this guy and he shoots, it runs off into heavy cover, mortally wounded. The hunter waits a couple minutes then heads off tracking it through the bush; but he leaves the backpack of equipment in the blind. Eventually he finds the deer dead a few hundred yards away.

In the meantime Hunter # 2 goes to the blind where he heard the shots from but no one is there, he figured this partner missed and he picks up the backpack to carry it out to the vehicle.

Hunter #1 returns to the blind to get his equipment, including his knife to field dress the deer, but finds his backpack gone?

So Hunter # 1 returns to the deer and with the sharp edge of a rock manages with considerable effort to open up an 8 inch slit in the deer's abdomin, through which he pulls out the stomach/intestines of the deer from below the diaphragm to above the bladder. He then walked out to the truck, found his buddy with the "lost" backpack and they both returned to the deer to finish field dressing it properly with a knife and extract it out of the bush.

At this time about 20 years ago my EDC knife was a medium-sized Swiss Army Knife (this was pre-multitool time), I think it was called a Lumberjack model. The blade was only about 3 inches long and I wanted to see if it was big enough to field dress a deer. So the next year I shot a nice big buck on opening day and that little SAK cleaned it out no problem, I even used the saw blade to split the pelvic bone.

I have never done this with a rock, or piece of an ammo can, but if you take your time and do not abuse the edge it is amazing what you can do.

Mike

Maaan! this has inspired me do do something like this on my own!
Hmm the possibilities here!

I know, it must be a crazy canadian thing1 LOL!

peace
al

love that camo BTW... I NEED some of Dat!

It’s amazing what one can do with a small blade when needed. In all honesty I prefer using a multi-tool over a knife for field dressing now. I used my surge to clean a bunch of rabbit a few weeks ago and was quite impressed. I can't wait to see how it will tackle a whitetail.

I find that as my skills with a knife improve the size of my EDC and field blades decrease. I don't want to brag, but I can do almost anything with a small knife at this point. I no longer EDC a folder as the surge blades are more than adequate for most jobs with a little patience. My LMF stays strapped to my TAC vest usually, and even my dedicated skinner gets strapped to my pack instead of my belt more and more. I still have my cold steel ultimate hunter as a backup blade, but even this is a fairly small folder.

Granted, Big knives still have their place, I won’t be selling my cold steel kukri machete anytime soon, But I still can drop a tree with the blade of my surge if ever the need arises.

It'll do just fine on big game. I watched an Idaho Wildlife officer field dress, cape and quarter a mature elk cow in the snow with his Wave. I didn't see where he was at any disadvantage compared to what I'd do with my "hunting" knife. If you know what you are doing, something sharp is all you need, and a big blade is actually a handicap most of the time. He did it all by himself too. Last time I field dressed a spike elk, I had two people helping me, and it took just about as long.

After all, you don't see or hear of many doctors these days performing surgery or coroners doing an autopsy with an 8" bowie or tanto blade.

I find that for general use anything longer than the width of my palm is too much knife. I always keep something big handy be it the LMF II or a machete...something that can chop and whack.

I hope when you say chop and whack you aren't referring to how you would field dress an animal? :0

LOL.

I'm no hunter. I have only the vaguest notion on how to dress an animal...only what I've read. Should I ever be forced to do it, I'm sure I'll screw it up big time.

My LMF has only ever chopped wood and whacked pegs into the ground. The pommel makes a dandy hammer.

You've really done it now Taurus!

Now our Canadian Gov't will be saving money by issuing old ammo boxes for knives.

I heard a radio interview a while back of the producer of 'The Unit', the tv show based upon delta force. In discussing yhe research that went into the development of the show, the producer indicated that, when the operators needed a knife for a mission, they went to the supermarket and bought one. Cheap, sharp, disposable. Not sure if this is accurate. Makes a certain amount of sense. Also makes all those combat knives that carry the delta/seal/sog label a marketing gimmick for exploitation of the wannabe market.

"...rub the blade along the gritty paint of the gun shroud..."

They may not like the wear and tear on the gun shrouds tho...

Taurus made a good point -- as your skill and experience increase, the size of the blade you need (or think you need) decreases.

To a certain extent, I would argue that's also true of the quality of the blade. A top-quality blade is superior in strength and sharpness, to be sure. But if you have worked with knives a lot, you have a sense of what kind of blade (even from the supermarket or dollar store or Sally Ann) will do a job, and how far you can push it.

For example: stainless kitchen knives are much more brittle than field knives, though they take a decent edge. They also tend to have a very thin tang, so they're weaker where the blade meets the handle. But kitchen knives can and do accomplish real work every day. You just don't use 'em as a prybar or machete. You adjust your technique to the blade in your hand. (And if you're wise you have something as a backup.)

The caveat of course is that the failure of a cheap blade, when being used hard, creates a real risk of injury. You really have to watch it.

Aside from that, it's actually a lot of fun (and a cheap hobby) to pick out cheap blades from second-hand stores and garage sales, and use them in the field. Or maybe that's just me :-)

My kitchen if full of expensive knives but one of my favorites I got from my grandpa. I have no idea how old it is. The tip was broken off about 20 years ago when it was being used to do something in the garage (I never did find out what). I re-ground it from a 10 inch knife to an 8 inch knife and it's never let me down since. Sometimes the older knives are the better knives.

I actually had a bit of fun with this improvised knife thing. I am currently looking into testing some new designs using any available materials at hand.(the next model will be NICE!!) I will see what I can make and test out, and then post the results.

I know most people could care less, but I get excited about this kind of stuff. Since none of my friends care about how well an improvised knife can cut I will post it here. Since I am doing it anyway I may as well share the info with someone.

" Sometimes the older knives are the better knives. "

Very true.

Often, the best flea market blades I find are old-style carbon steel butcher knives. People shy away from them because they're not shiny. But they don't realize that these are tougher, thicker, and better at holding an edge than all but the best stainless knives. For a dollar or two you can get a perfectly serviceable knife for the kitchen or the bush.

As for having knives passed down from family, that's priceless. I'm lucky to have a couple that my grandfather made from a huge old sawmill blade.