Need BOB help

I am a father of 2 children under five years of age, a mother who is limited to a walker or wheelchair, and my wife can carry a small backpack, but not a large one. I am pretty fit and can carry a heavy backpack, but I am having a hard time packing things. I am following the needs, as best I can, from articles on the site and others e.g. tent, food, sleeping bags, purify water, make fire, etc. but it is all getting to be much in terms of space and weight.

Trying to pack for five people and have one to two people carry is a bit challenging for me. Can anyone help with some suggestions?

Thanks,

Robbie

Possibly rig a pack to the back of the wheelchair or "saddle bags" to the side of the walker. Another option would be to use a small cart that supplies and kiddies can ride in and dad can push/pull. Or if the wheelchair is motorized set up the cart to be pulled by it. Not good for wilderness, good for urban environment. Not that I forsee bringing two sub 5 year olds and a wheelchair/walker bound mother into the wilderness as being an overly viable option.

-Bill Liptak

Is this a foot or vehicle contingency plan?

Seriously consider the reality of quick bug-out with the wheelchair-bound. IMHO, an option is to have the family leave as soon as it seems like something is coming down the pike. You stay as the "home guard" until it is absolutely necessary to leave.

Don't forget that you can use the baby stroller as a "pack mule"/handcart.

All others feel free to chime in....

My 2 cents

Rather than evacuate on foot, I would be looking very hard at bicycles and bike trailers. There are many commercial bike trailers designed for carrying children, dogs and cargo. And I just now saw this trailer which is designed to be an "ambulance" and which could perhaps accomodate your mother.

http://bikecart.pedalpeople.com/ambulance.html

I have a large dog trailer built by a Canadian company named "Croozer" and cargo trailer built by Oregon-based "Burley."

As your children age they will be able to ride their own bikes for some distance, freeing you and your wife up to carry only your mother and cargo.

You can cover so much more ground with a bike than on foot. Here are some other bike trailer options:

for persons with "special needs"
http://blueskycyclecarts.com/BSkyHandicap.htm

trailers to pull adults as well as children
http://www.equinoxtrailers.com/

Casualty transport system
http://www.casualtytransport.com/newpolice.htm

I share your dilemma. IMO, Bugging out is a last resort and is only effective IF you have somewhere to go to, within a reasonable distance. You are the only one who actually knows your situation. All any of us can do is to supply some food for thought. So here are some of my thoughts:

1) If the wheelchair is electric, your ability to bug out is limited to a 24-30 mile radius of your home, providing the batteries were in good condition and fully charged when you left home. Para 1A may be applicable, depending on the style and weight of the chair.

1A) If the wheelchair is a manual, a galvanized pipe can be clamped to the chair and after you attach a hitch to it, you can hitch it to a bicycle and tow her along.

1B) The MIL's walker can be hitched to the front of the chair for carrying until it is needed to get around an obstacle or other human needs.

1C) The MIL's equipment can be largely carried on the back of the chair from the handles.

2) IMO, a two person bicycle trailer would be good to use for the kids. Some of their gear can be tied to it.

3) 2 people can carry the gear of 5 if you use bicycle(s) to hang the gear upon while you and the wife walk the bicycle (with the kids trailer hitched to it). Remember how Charlie kept his army supplied during the Vietnam War.


My personal plans include Bugging Out ONLY to avoid imminent death. My DD1's chair is electric and weighs 250LBS and is not easily towed by a bicycle. We are in the process of getting her a manual chair. When we get the manual chair, then I will get a hitch, galvanized piping, and the necessary clamps to be able to tow her.

My goal this year is to completely equip my "stable" for bugging out purposes. This does not change my opinion that Bugging Out is a Life or Death OPTION ONLY!

I have taken steps to insure, as much as possible, that my home is and stays, equipped to weather out any event at home.

I do currently have several Bug Out plans but they require 24 hours advanced notice in order to be viable. I can't think of any actual disastrous events that provided advanced notice AND that the information was broadcast to the public beforehand.

Radio Flyer wagon (or something similar).

Load the kids and goodies in and they think it's for fun so keeps their stress to a minimum.

I've seen folks do this at Mardi Gras parades; put the kids and the cooler in the wagon and off they go.

The plastic ones seem to be fairly deep and light weight so I think they could be strapped upside down on top of the car.

Welcome to the forum Robbie!

Theres alot of great knowledge here

Sounds like a bike and trailer would be a good choice
might also want to look at wheeled game carts used to pack out deer and large game after the hunt

In counterpoint to Wildman's excellent post, I CAN relate an emergency situation that would provide advance notice and public announcement of impending evacuation. I live in an area that can flood. It has already happened twice.

Accordingly my suggestion is to also consider setting up additional contingency supplies at locations determined by you to be your evac. destinations ie: parents, grandparents, in-law's, siblings, trusted friends, etc. This can reduce your load provided the situation allows you to get to your contingency supplies.

If you can determine the location you would most likely be able to head to, stock that location with supplies. It may not be possible for you to carry everything you need, let alone pack, on a moments notice.

You may even be at work when an emergency strikes. Maybe you won't even be able to go home in the first place...This has happened to me.

In other words, reduce what you're carrying and place it, in advance, where you would most likely attempt to head. The caveat of course is to consider this stock as backup. But backup's have funny ways of turning into our primaries don't they?

Every situation is unique but the concept is basically like setting up "safe-houses".

For example: My area is in a flood zone. My in-laws are a driveable distance away on high ground. I've got supplies there that would allow me to show up basically with nothing in my pockets (god forbid!), be comfortable, self-sufficient for a couple of days, and be a minimal load on my in-laws. Obviously this presumes I'll be able to drive there. But your "safe-house" may be walking distance. In addition to the basics, consider some toys, children's books and kid friendly snacks, maybe even a pack of diapers.

We can't control the type of emergency or the timing but we can prepare locations that we would likely decamp to in an emergency. Consider it in addition to the useful advise already posted.

With your needs it seems unrealistic to think you can bug out on foot and have the supplies you would need. Just the food for 5-people for any length of time (with only 2 of them able to carry any kind of pack) would be more then reasonable to carry.


Better to plan on a car or SUV as part of your bug out plan.

Always have a supply of fuel on hand so you won’t have to worry about it when the emergency comes. With fuel stabilizer you can store gas for a few years and still expect it to work right.

Don't forget some of the "sport" type wheelchairs (the tricycle style). They're probably hardier for a rough environment, and more stable on uneven terrain. You can also use it as a "pack mule" like the others have suggested.

A couple more comments:

Robbie:

1) Bicycles and trailers are really best when used as secondary vehicles. You resort to them after something has disabled your primary (motorized) vehicle.

2) You will find most of us here will tell you that you will do very well to be able to carry the amount of food, water, and weapons needed to make it to a bug out location. That location must have a sizable amount of all types of supplies there in order for you to make it through a growing and harvesting season.


MDinana: The problem with the sport wheelchairs that I have been around:

1) They lack pushing handles on the top rear of the seat. One normally hangs their Ruck from those handles. This capability would prove to be of a critical necessity in the event that the chair had to be used as part of a secondary BoV.

2) They normally don't have arm rests and this would prove to be of a critical safety importance in the event the chair had to be utilized as part of a secondary BoV.

That's the last of my 4 cents worth!

Where are you? Why would you need to bug out quickly? Bugging out is only preferable to digging in when staying means you will probably die.

You are NOT bugging out by foot, pure and simple. You have no non-vehicle mobility to speak of, you are better off figuring out WHY you might need to bug, and know how to tell when it will be needed. Then and only then, bug early. This is totes of stuff tossed in the trunk. Skip the tent- the wheelchair means you are needing to have a destination picked out, not found. You will want a family member or friend who you can stay with, or a public shelter.

You have a bad set of conditions. But the other choice it leave people behind.

I have written and posted at one time two articles that deal with the basic premise behind this post.

Carrying a bigger BOB. That deals with designing carts and options for carrying more equipment or persons that have limited mobility. I.e. young children or elderly.

Alternate Bug out Vehicles. This includes other forms of transportation. Such as boats, standard bike options as well as rail bikes and converting a standard motor vehicle for use on railroad systems.

Finally I have the basic design of a rickshaw like cart.

Anyone that would like copies can send me an E-mail address via the PM system. I can then send them to you as a set of attached word documents.

Thank you all for your widsom and advice. Locations for other supplies is not viable. A wagon for children and supplies is a possibility. I will need to check on the bicycles. That sounds like something we could do.

If I may inquire further, how do I balance the needs for water, food, and shelter?

Thanks,

Robbie

Instead of a kid's radio flyer wagon, take a look at nursey wagons, the kind of wagon that you use to cart around plants, bags of mulch etc. Bigger, much more stable, more durable wheels, better capacity. Inflated, ball bearing wheels, decent steering. I think bugging out with one of these would be a last resort, but could haul someone a good distance with mobility issues and maybe a kid or two. I've seen decent models at Home Depot for $100-150, and models in catalogs with mountable side rails. Our neighbor has one and I've pre-requisitioned it to move immediate casualties after a quake.

Take a kids wagon to bug-out?

Seriously, how far is a person going to bug-out with 2 adults having to carry food & supplies, push a wheel chair and have 2-kids ride in a wagon? And the kids will want to ride in the wagon, (having been a parent, I can guarantee this) so you need 2 wagons, backpacks for food and supplies.

If you go with bicycles with a trailer on each one, who’s going to push the wheel chair? A battery powered one will run out of power in a short time, you need a manual one if you plan on walking out of any given situation and it’s any distance to your target area.


The adults will have to pull 2-wagons, have heavy backpacks on and push a wheelchair. After 15-min of this it’s going to cause you to want to go home and wait and hope for the Calvary to come rescue you.

You can’t put all you need for 5-people in 2 backpacks and a wagon. It’s not realistic to think this would work.



Again bugging out in this situation is going to involve an auto, and hopefully one with a roof rack. Even folded up a wheel chair can fill up the trunk of a car, that’s why you need a roof rack. And extra gas cans full of gasoline.

Might I suggest a bugout BOAT instead? A flat bottom boat with a 9.9 hp motor will get you many miles on a tank of gas, and a trolling motor can add a few more to that. From there you can still pole or paddle it.

I’m confused, a boat?

You're right, bugging out with a disabled person without a vehicle is a last resort. We're all wrong though, to assume that the person's electric wheel chair is a viable bug out vehicle to move them. You can't rely on the electric charge, and when it dies you are pushing a 250 lb item up and down hills, over alot of ruck, through snow, among traffic etc. Non-electric wheelchairs are lighter but better to leave the wheelchairs behind, and move the person on some other conveyance. Pictures of refugees show alot of innovation in how they will move, even pushing sedans filled with family and stuff along the road once they've run out of gas. Frankly that wouldn't get you anywhere in the Pacific Northwest, not with our predominant hills and our wet. So you need to think light, and that's why I suggested a nursery wagon, which has a capacity of at least 400-500 lbs and can accomodate at least 1 disabled person with additional gear and infants. It also has a steering bar that could be modified to be towed by a bike (maybe), or broadened to be pushed by two adults (easier). And you might strap a walker on, they're pretty light and compact, ensuring the person some mobility at destination.

But all in all, the best plan for success goes to Mr Wildman: plan ahead for a bug out destination, ensure ou have access to a vehicle for you and your charges, and leave early as a precaution (cost = some gas, maybe a couple nights in a motel or imposing on friends or family, some time off work, peace of mind and a successful evac = priceless).

Are you thinking something like this or this?

I'm confused. How or why would anyone bug out on foot? Even if all you have is one tank-full in a gas hog, you can at least put 200 miles worth of road behind you. There is noway anyone on foot can do that within a reasonable amount of time.

If we have to move out on foot, we would be in sad shape. How many Americans can walk from a dangerous area to a safe area before the danger hits?

Jeanette Isabelle

I imagine only someone in an area that may be totally blocked with traffic would need to consider this. If the streets are blocked a vehicle wont do any one much good. I have a bug out plan that revolves around my truck because I do not live in the city, and way...way down on my list I consider bugging out on foot in the unlikely event that the roads where I live become unusable somehow. Its more of a "just in case plan" because you never really can foresee ALL the things that could go wrong.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.