Advice on Dual or Multi - Fuel Portable Stove

Hi All,

Since Taurus posted his terrific winter equipment review I have been doing some evaluating of my own gear and have been thinking about upgrading my portable stove for emergency use, but more likely for use while just working or camping in the bush.

I have used and owned many camp stoves over the past 40 years; from battered 2 burner naptha Coleman's, to tiny pocket cannister rockets and Esbit tab fold-ups.

The one fuel I usually have with me in the field is automotive gasoline (for truck, outboard, chainsaw, ATV, snowmobile or generator) therefore it would be great if I had a portable stove that could run well on this fuel so I did not have to carry a second type.

I thought Taurus had the right idea with his Coleman Exponent Multi-fuel Camp Stove seen here http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=550B725&categoryid=2005

It is a tough, efficient, one-piece unit that will run on gasoline, problem solved; then I read on the Coleman website under the FAQ section that no Coleman product (including dual/multi-fuel items) should be run on Canadian automobile gasoline as "additives will cause damage to the tank, valve, genetator and burner." This note can be found here
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/faq/faqreturn.asp?question=35

So I went looking on the internet for other options and found them from Brunton, MSR, and Primus; all are of the 2-piece design (I have no experience with these). It is common to read independant reviews that state that all stoves will run dirty and clog when used with automotive gasoline, I am wondering if Canadian gasoline would compound this problem even further?

So my question is;
What is the experience of ETS Forum members with using automotive gasoline in portable camp stoves and can you recommend a preferred brand and model? Any information would be terrific and any thoughts on the gasoline additive problem would also help.

As always I appreciate your input,

Mike

Well the problem with toxic fumes and dirt, is a problem of the particular fuel, not the stove. Oil company add stuff to let the fuel run better in the engine, good for the engine. Bad for your health when cooking with it. I only see car fuel's as a emergency fuel source for mine stove and use proper clean fuels for mine stoves.

I have use both one and two piece designed stoves. They all work. I personally do prefer optimus(Bruton is the US?) and primus. The plastic pumps on the MSR just don't feel right and i had a piece of plastic broken off mine old MSR XGK pump. The two piece design is easy to pack, but obviously has piece to assemble.

I refuse to buy any more Coleman stoves that run on gasoline. The generators clog up every year or so if you use them much. There is a reason that you see lots of Coleman generators in about every store that sells camping supplies all across the country.

I have a Svea 123 that is almost 30-years old; all I have ever done to it is put gasoline in it and cooked with it, it's still going strong. It’s all brass (no plastic) and was first made over 100-years ago. It’s been the standard for years. I don’t think you can find better gas stove then it.

Here's some information on Common Canadian fuel additives. It's a bit ambiguous...go figure.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/CAOL/OGEB/fuels/reports/additives99/additives99_3_e.htm

I know that the big killer for stoves is Oxygenated fuels...commmonly added as an octane improvers...or branded as a 'winter gas' (maybe that's what 'Canadian gas' is?). They can attack the seals and such in your stove.

The more expensive the gas, the more additives...so I've always been told anyhow. If you use regular and not premium, I think the risks are minimal...though it might be a good idea to carry spare parts and a servicing kit anyhow.

Before propane was king around here my dad used an old school Coleman 2 burner stove and lantern for camping. He'd put gasoline in them even though you weren't supposed to and they ran fine. He claimed that as long as the quality of the gas was good, there would never be a problem. Also that the warnings originated from a time when crap gasoline was common, requiring 'stove fuel' be used.

Gasoline seems to be a real problem with Coleman multi-fuel stoves. Unless you run them full-tilt bozo wide open, the generators foul rather quickly, and then you have to take them apart and strip out all the carbon and crud. The seals also seem to wear out rather quickly. If I use a coleman stove or lantern, I use coleman fuel in it, whether it says it's dual fuel, multi fuel, or whatever.

I just read a review on the Svea 123 and damn if I don't wish I had a couple to put in my vehicles.

Perfect thing for a motorcycle road trip. Why carry 2 fuels when space and weight are at a premium and when it's so easy to get raw fuel from a motorcycle.

Hey,

Thanks for the replies and please keep them coming.

I also researched the Svea 123(R) and found references to using white gas, stove fuel (Coleman Fuel) and unleaded gasoline.

I would like to purchase a used one of these to try it out (the only new ones I could find were in Cali. and were quite expensive when you factor in the shipping).

If anyone has an old one (even a beat-up one) to sell please PM me.

Thanks,

Mike

Is the Svea 123 or 123R rated for auto/motorcycle fuel? Mine (I have three) specifically say white gas only. I do have a small clone of the Optimus 8 that calls for white gas (coleman fuel) or regular unleaded. The problem with auto fuel is it still has lots of additives you don't want to be breathing.

Every review I've read has stated it will burn unleaded, low grade gasoline just as easily as white gas. I even read somewhere that the originals (decades ago) recommended 'leaded gasoline, preferably white'. I think what's in our fuels these days is far less harmful than burning that!

Interesting tid bit:

The coleman site faq claims Coleman Fuel is about 50-55 octane and has none of the additives of unleaded gasoline. It doesn't say you can't put regular gasoline into a coleman product...just that you can't run your car off Coleman Fuel

My Svea 123 is almost 30-years old, and I have never in my life bought Coleman fuel. It’s run great every time I have used it, I buy just the regular gasoline for it.


One thing they tell you is to not let them run out of fuel as it will burn the wick. My Svea has run out of gas at least 4 or 5 times a year for every year I have owned it. Never a problem. Put more gas in it and relight it and it’s back to normal cooking.

I’ve seen them on sale on e-bay for as little as $40.00, and as much as $100.00 for a new one. I would say it’s worth every bit of $100.00 for a new one. It will still be working when you are dead.

Don’t let the price of this stove keep you from buying one. For a survival item it’s great. Few things are able to give you the quality and service life this stove can.

If I ever needed to replace mine, price would not come into play, It’s simply the best gas stove made.

Other stoves (Coleman & MSR) are made with plastic. Also the current trend in backpack stoves seems to be to have a separate tank attached by a hose. This to me is a weak link that will give you fuel leaking problems down the road. Coleman Apex 1 & 2 stoves are known for the hose leaking fuel. The Svea is all one compact unit, it’s simple & reliable. It also comes with a 1.5 cup pot that fits over the stove; this way in a survival situation you always have a pot with your stove to boil water. I don’t think any other camp stove comes with a pot like it does.

Mine didn't come with a cover (eBay) but I found a couple cans that fit it quite well.

Interesting and good to know that the Svea works well with regular unleaded, thanks.

Here is a place that sells new Svea’s ($100.00) they also sell rebuild kits for them, they may have a new pot you can buy. It has a picture of the stove with the pot.

http://www.scoutgear.com/kd123r.html

All this talk of the Svea 123 brings back memories by the score. I went through two (?) of these as a young bushy-tailed backpacker. Great stoves once you get to know them.

The ones I bought in the '80s had a sticker that said something like: in (these countries in Europe), use only lowest grade automotive fuel; in North America, use only white gas. From that, I assume it was a regulatory thing. I ran an old Svea on auto gas just for the heck of it, and it ran fine. I suppose it would gum up the wick in regular use.

Frankly, if I were burning auto gas, I'd put a close-fitting lid on my pot. No need to flavour the tea with funky additives.

I recall seeing new Svea 123s at a couple of outdoors shops in Edmonton as recently as a few years ago. I imagine they're still around.

These days, if I'm carrying a bomber multi-fuel stove, it's the MSR XGK. Parts, pumps, seals and rebuild kits are available in any decent outdoors shop, or by mail.

BTW: For the care and feeding of the Svea 123, and a whole lot of d@mned excellent writing about backpacking, philosophy of the outdoors, etc., get Colin Fletcher's "Complete Walker" v.1,2,3 or 4. You will not regret it. I have rebound and constantly re-read v.3 for the last 25 years. Darn him for writing so well.

Hi Hacksaw,

The Canadian Coleman site does not mention using automobile unleaded gas in their multi-fuel stoves at all, but the USA site specifically mentions not using Canadian Automotive Gasoline in any Coleman product (including multi-fuel items), follow the link in the original post for the exact warning.

I checked out the link you provided about gasoline additives, there is sure a lot more stuff in gas now than there used to be.

Thanks,

Mike

This post got me interested in the SVEA 123 stove, Ebay has quite a few and one seller even has a few spare parts as well, hope this helps.

if you think the svea 123r is to expensive, you can get the 8r hunter. The business parts are identical, but i fin the 8r hunter to be more easily found and there are plenty of copy's of the 8r. A new russian made clone van be bought at 15euro's a piece.

The MSR Whisperlite International will run on most things and it has a shaker pin inside the valve that moves aruond while you walk the remove any clog the fuel tube is also larger than most to accomidate even the nastiest of fuels.

SwampDonkey,

Not to disagree with the group here, but I was glad (20 years ago) to dump my Svea 123. Without the mini pump, it is a pain to use at altitude or in the cold, even with the pump it could be better. It is not particularly fast, but for some that is not important. I never used auto gas (the stove was clearly marked not to use it), but even then it required cleaning. The prick (before shaker cleaning) was easy to break or loose. The one piece design is too tall and hard to stabilize in rough terrain or on an ensolite pad in the snow (I finally made a plywood base). If you like this type of stove, I think the Optimus 8R was a much better design (again, get the pump), but I shifted to an MSR XGK and never looked back.

The two piece design works very well, keeps the center of gravity low and, with the original ridgid fuel tube, made a very broad base. The newer ones use a flex tube, but include feet for stability. I have not had a problem with the plastic parts even though I am a klutz :-( and carry lots of hard stuff in my bag. They are also the easiest stove I have seen to repair in the field. The designer actually used them in the field! Parts are available in most of the world (try finding Coleman parts in Katmandu).

I recently replaced my original with the new EX model and it is even better. I have not used auto gas in either one, but the old one ran mostly on aviation gasoline. In both cases, in the old days, the biggest safety hazard was the lead in the gas. Clogging is not hard to deal with. If you want to simmer with this type of stove, get the Dragonfly or Simmerlite (I think the Dragonfly has a larger range of fuels). It is a bit of a problem with the XGK, but it is the best water boiler of the bunch.

Respectfully,

Jerry

To get myself back on topic a bit, I've drooled over all those cool multi-fuel/exotic fuel/blended fuel component/contained backpackable stoves, and realized that nothing seemed to work any better for me than the el cheapo screw on propane bottle stove I've used in the past. No windscreen included, just a simply 8,000 or so btu burner made of stamped and perforated sheet metal with heavy wire legs or more sheet metal struts. No pumping, no priming, cheap as you can get bottled fuel that lasted me and two other guys all week long. If I wanted it to make even hotter fire, I splurged and bought a bottle of Mapp gas and lived it up. It didn't seem to noticably weigh down my pack any more than the expensive ones I borrowed from friends, and you couldn't beat the economics ($15 for the stove and 99 cents a bottle back then).

You might have to tuck the bottle under an armpit and suffer for a couple minutes in the nastiest of weather, but that wasn't so different from some of the other touted systems. If it broke or got lost, well, go back to the store and get another one.

I used two of those little el cheapo propane stoves to do an awful lot of expedtionary and impromptu cooking, and they've held up pretty well, have been totally reliable, and are still in my grub box ready to go. Coming up with my own refill adapter for a 20 lb tank cut the cost on them little bottles down to almost ziltch.

I’ve had just the opposite experience. I run gasoline in my Svea, it has a cleaning needle built into it. Open the valve all the way and it pokes up through the orifice and cleans it out. I have done this while the stove was running and at not had to even turn the stove off to clean it.

Several years ago I had an MSR Whisperlite and it clogged up all the time. I had to have a repair kit with me and take it apart in the field to get it up & running again. I will never buy another MSR stove, taking it apart twice in a week long campout made that decision for me. Why does MSR sell so many field repair kits for each stove and also a yearly rebuild kit for each of their stoves? Answer, they need it. I have read a lot of reviews on MSR stoves, and almost all people love them, but then they say to make sure you buy the repair kit. Reading between the lines it tells me I was not the only one that has clogging problems. Even your post says they are easy to field strip, this kinda says you have had to take it apart to clean it while out camping. I have no idea how to take my Svea apart, I don’t think I will ever need to as it fires up all the time every time.


The Svea does need to be put on a level surface, but don’t they all? I have never knocked over any stove while cooking. I think the Svea is 4700 BTUs output and newer stoves can be as high as 9000 BTUs. This is not a big deal to me as it seems to cook more then fast enough. It will boil a quart of water in 5-min. As far as getting it to lite up, I squire some Denatured alcohol into the cup and all over the generator and light it and let it almost burn out, then light the stove. It works great. I don’t have the pump for it, I never felt I needed it. I don’t do much winter camping now, but in the Boy Scouts we did several weekends a year. And it always worked well for us in the winter.

I don’t have a R8 stove, but sooner or later I would like to get one just to play with, I have read that the R8 is not as hot as the 123. But that’s not a big issue, who cares if a quart of water takes 5-min or 5 ½ min?

I'm very happy with an older version of the Primus multi-fuel stove, newer version on sale at backcountry.com for $55 now, http://www.backcountry.com/store/SUN0115/Primus-Multifuel-Stove.html. All metal no plastic pumps etc, great steady flame, fast boil, I assert it even simmers reasonably well. Very reliable, easy field maintenance (as in none, if you perform routine cleaning when off the trail). The Primus MF has never failed to catch a light easily and without flooding. One day when I was convinced I had lost the Primus MF I bought the Primus OmniFuel, which has a crazy quirk of flooding out lots of gas (over the stove, cook area, surroundings etc) before catching fire in order to prime the setup. Lots on interest from fellow campers, mostly harmless, but the OmniFuel mostly collects dust while the MF cooks). I've run gas and kerosene through it, but for me its easiest to just keep a bottle of white gas handy and draw from a gallon can.

I have fond memories of a very old Svea 123, including one where the stove blew 20 feet in the air while starting. Can't recall specifically what that was from, but they have to have addressed that by now.

Gotta agree with you, I loved my old style XGK...

The more I read about these stoves the more I want one...and the more I keep thinking that between my Optimus Crux and Vargo Ti alcohol stove, I have everything I need. It's hard to argue with the dependability of those two.

I was concerned this winter about the Crux in the cold but it just hasn't been an issue despite some inhospitable weather. I read on the web that a French team climbed the alps with the Crux and loved it despite the altitude and the cold...too bad their site is all french or I'd read all about it.

The thing I'm learning from all of this aggregate experience is that each stove has it's pros and cons...you just have to decide on the stove that's going to work best for how you need a stove to work.

I almost bid on one of those 8r stoves on eBay today...but I'm glad I didn't...I have what I don't need is a 3rd, 4th or 5th stove...More for Blast to collect I guess

Only five stoves, you need more then that. At least one dozen!


I’m a stoveaholic.

Interesting. I bought a Crux this past summer and have had a good experience with it.

I've thought about buying a Vargo Ti alcohol stove. I'm wondering if you could share some more about your experience with it? I was thinking I could use it in lower altitude in mild to hot weather conditions. Potentially a nice weight savings since one doesn't have to carry the steel canisters. Sounds like you're really satisfied, yes?

For winter or high altitude, I pretty much still use my MSR Whisper light. I bought the thing in the late 80's, and it's still going strong. I've never had it jam on me, thank God. I do typically carry a repair kit, but I still haven't opened the repair kit. The "O" rings, the leather cup, etc. do need to be replaced every 5? years. I last did major maintenance on my Whisperlite in 2001, and it's running fine. I did replace the "O" ring on the fuel tank in 2006. I guess I'm just lucky that I've not had jams. Mine is the older version, the kind before they came out with the shaker jet. I'd better buy a new repair kit and always make sure I bring a jet cleaner.

I've been very satisfied with the Vargo. When I first picked it up it was because it was on sale and I wanted to try it out...maybe keep it around as a backup because it's so light. Now it's my primary stove except for where I'm cooking for a group or need to melt snow.

I find it easy to light (though not always easy to fill...butterfingers!) and as long as it's shielded from the wind a bit, it's extremely dependable. It might not always be able to bring 2 cups of water to a mega boil (like in winter) but it gets the water hot enough for what I need it for....prepping meals or a hot drink.

First Question: So do you bring a wind screen or do you use rocks or dig a hole? What's worked for you to provide shelter from the wind? I too would be concerned that it would blow out easily.

Second Question: Do you find it can make water hot enough for freeze dried food? Instant Oatmeal? Those foods say that you should have boiling water. Also, in mild weather, can you boil water for purification purposes?

1: I use the stove part of my Crusader canteen set. if wind is really bad I'll bust out the HD aluminum foil I carry.

2: In mild weather it will boil water no problem with fuel left to spare. It's perfect for freeze dried food and instant oatmeal...those two things are the primary food I carry if I'm going on a hike. The crusader canteen holds 2 cups of water, perfect for a 2 serving bag of freeze dried goodness.

OK, so the Vargo is small enough that it fits into a Crusader stove , which acts as a wind break? I'm surprised that the Crusader stove is big enough or am I misundertstanding?

Good to know about the boiling thing. Cool. I may pick one of these Vargo stoves up.

Is it the Vargo Triad you've got?

The Triad XE?

The first one...older one.

On its own it's not a good windbreak. The cup fits inside the stove and rests on the bars. The gap around is small. The only hole is the low notch in the stove. That part either faces away from the wind or I sit in front to block the wind. If it's really blowing, I I wrap the whole thing in foil loosely enough for it to get enough air from the bottom. As long as that slot isn't completely covered

Hi,
How well do alcohol stoves work in the cold (I even had trouble keeping 2 burner Naptha Colemans working this weekend)?

Mike

Functionally alcohol stoves work great in the cold...they just need a bit more priming to get going. I've used mine in weather as cold as -25 or colder and it's always lit. My tests have shown my Vargo to run longer in the cold than at room temperature.

Practically they're not as good as the competition and get a bad rap simply because their heat output is so much lower. If you don't expect much out of one, they get most jobs done just fine. They won't boil much water, won't melt snow worth a damn, and won't run as long as other types of stoves. I'm generally only using it to thaw out some food and have a hot beverage.

My multifuel stove is two stoves I made:

1. A penny alcohol stove (aluminum can bottoms + penny pressure valve)

2. A wood stove made from nested tin cans with a gutter screen inner bottom. (copy of the BushBuddy) In the forest, there's no need to carry fuel with this, assuming wood stoves aren't a fire hazard in the area.

Just buy the best the MSR International it will burn just about anything and has the best track record. I am alway scepticable of one piece stoves, thought I had a Coleman simular to the one you are looking at. The MSR is just proven and used in more exptermes then any other stove.
Cheers

Well actually i have heard 2 kind of reaction on the whisperlite International. Some rave about it and other simple think it's a piece of ****. Personally i have not owned a whisperlite, but have been able to use them. I can't really say they are mine favorite. It's also not really a multifuel stove. It can't burn diesel and other dirty stuff.

I have owned (although i have now sold most of them to safe space) MSR XGK, Optimus Explorer, SVEA 123R, Primus Multifuel, Coleman 503, MSR pocket rocket, several traniga and svea alcohol stoves, loads of home made stoves, wood-burning stoves, esbits stoves, etc. I also have another stove coming mine way. I have also used Whisperlites, optimus nova's, 8R's, etc. It's mine opinion that optimus and primus makes better stoves than MSR does. Most stove addicts would say the same, check www.spiritburner.com/ for stove-a-holics.

two models of multifuel stoves i would recommend are:
- the Primus Omnifuel, able to burn everything from propane/butane to diesel. Very well build, good precise controls.
- Optimus Nova, burns most liquid fuels, very good controls, very compact and also very well build.

Check out the Optimus Nova (not the Nova+ though - problematic valve design). Great multi-liquid fuel stove, which seems to keep running no matter what you throw at it.

Also consider a multi-fuel stove that also can use canister fuel; Primus makes several (I have the Multifuel), and I'm sure there are others. That provides the ultimate flexibility.

Whichever stove you get, as others have noted, automotive gasoline is a poor choice (toxic fumes, more clogging, more contaminants). You can get by with automotive unleaded, but better to get real white gas, or use kerosene/veggie oil/diesel, in that order of preference.