cooking and heating with propane?

Hello All,
Living in Minnesota I’ve come to realize that if the heat goes out… I’m in BIG trouble. I’ve been looking into liquid propane heaters and am also thinking about a burner or two for emergency cooking. For heat, I’m leaning toward the indoor/outdoor Mr. Heater with the 20lb tank adapter (or the Home Depot equivalent). Then for the burner, I was thinking the cheap, cast iron one or two burner. Are there other options out there? Are there “better” options? I know there are “multi-fuel” heaters and burners; but I don’t know anything about them.
Any thoughts?

For emergency use I'd recommend a Coleman 2 burner camp stove. Even when all my car camping gear is packed deep into storage, the stove stays in my bedroom closet with a few cylinders just in case. Same with the propane lantern.

I'm not aware of any 'multifuel' propane stoves on the market.

Coleman also makes some good propane heaters but the Mr. Heater models are also very good. Whatever you get, get something with safeties that turn everything off if the unit gets bumped or knocked over.

Home Depot is having a sale on the Mr. Heater knock-off. It doesn't list a 20lb adapter as an option though I imagine it would be very straight forward.
Can the Coleman 2 burner be hooked up to the larger LP cylinders? The multi fuel stove I found is here:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200234424_200234424
Thanks,
M

Coleman makes adapters. You can run just about anything coleman off of a 20lb. tank if you pick up the adapter you need. They make the 'trees' too so that you can run multiple things off the same tank and mount a lantern on the top for light...popular item.

Does that stove from Northerntool.com run off of isobutane cylinders like a backpack stove or the Butane cylinders that are shaped like a can of spray paint? If it will run off the former, I've been looking for just such a creature for months!

I really don't know what Northerntool stove will run on. It doesn't say. Thanks for the info on the Coleman. Even if it's not specifically listed, do you think it's alright to run a heater off of the larger tank?

I suspect it runs on the butane only cans...but I did some Googling and it appears to come with several adapters so you never know.

As long as propane is regulated appropriately, the size of the tank doesn't matter. When I was a kid my dad got frustrated with running out during the summer on the BBQ so he hooked it up to a 200lb. tank about 5 feet tall...ran for years before needing a fill!

The problem you might have with the heaters is that many of them are designed to take the small bottle internally so adapting it might not work. The Coleman heaters for example use the bottle as part of the base so you'd have a hard time with those. I've never tried converting my propane stuff to run 20lb bottles...I love the small bottles too much.

I compare such a situation at home akin to what I need up at elk camp in my wall tent. I would refrain from using a propane heater unless it has the catalyzing feature that prevents the production of carbon monoxide. These heaters also have an O2 sensor that will shut down the combustion system if the O2 gets below an acceptable level. I've used these in smaller spaces (<500 sq ft) with decent results in fairly cold environments and always been satisfied with their performance, knowing ahead of time their limits. I've always used the smaller versions, though I understand they now have a bigger model with twice the burning surface. I also hear that there are more permanent fixtures that do the same thing. I've been in cabins that use the non-catalyzing heaters, and sleeping in the top bunk under those conditions is not an option for me. I've also been in wall tents with bigger non-catalyzing Mr. Heaters going intermittently through the night to augment wood stove heat at times. It is acceptable because the tent was breezy enough that it purged the exhaust gases sufficiently. At home, I would tend to keep at least one window open per 1,000 sq feet.

As far as propane stoves, I have come to the conclusion that nothing out there is as good as the Camp Chef line of professional outfitter grade cast iron stoves. At 30,000 btu per burner, I find that the two and three burner units can handle all my camp cooking needs, including heating gallons of water in minutes, cooking in my largest cast iron dutch ovens and frying pans, and grilling steaks and such at the ideal temperatures. While not of the backpacking variety, they do well in the back of my pickup or suburban, are quite rugged and durable, and use the 20 lb propane tanks or similar. I used to use coleman stoves but found that although they were much more portable, they lacked the size and heating characteristics that I desired for how I work. They will do the job in a pinch, but when portability isn't such an issue they are just not nearly as convenient or reliable.

There are other cast iron stoves out there, but my experience has been that the Camp Chef products are superior to anything else I've seen. I don't owe them nothing and don't expect nothing from them, so this here plug is legitimate. Costco's sold the 3 burner Camp Chef stoves previously for as low as $150, but I haven't seen them in their stores for a while now. Online they are almost double that, but still well worth the $$. There were more than a few nights when living in my cook's tent that I left one of the burners running on low all night long to supplement my poor little woodstove, without any problem and more than enough comfort.

I have a small space heater stove my dad gave me. It’s very old, it’s made by Kenmore and says it’s a bathroom heater (made for an outhouse???) I love it. I will have to do a search to find the history on it.


I like Propane heaters as they are very easy to use but you could also store a kerosene heater and fuel for emergency heat. I have seen them for $5.00 at garage sales.

www.Safetycentral.com is a great web site with lots of survival stuff to take your money. On the heating & cooking page they have the propane adaptors for larger 20 Lb tanks. Their prices are kinda high, but you can use them to look for anything you may want and then look for it at a better price.

As benjammin mentions, be real careful with this stuff indoors. It can kill.

Most of the stoves and heaters you're talking about are intended to use outdoors or in VERY well ventilated areas.

Whatever you do, do NOT bring a 20lb propane tank into any part of your house. That is extremely dangerous.

If necessary, you can run a hose from outside (where your tank is safely stored ).

If you must use propane indoors, the safest solution is to use the small 1 lb bottles. Those are okay to bring indoors.

If you're fortunate enough to have a natural gas fireplace, you can usually use that for heat even if the electricity is off. You won't get the fans blowing hot air into the room, but you'll get enough radiant heat to get by.

Also, FWIW, natural gas hot water heaters often work just fine without electricity.

Good luck!

I was thinking of getting a Mr. Heater unit for emergency use as well, but one thing that I wasn't sure about is the fact that it says not to use it indoors with a 20# tank. Why is it unsafe to use the bulk tank indoors while it's fine to use the 1# tanks?

Also when the power goes out and your dealing with outside temps of 0deg. or colder wouldn't having a window open negate the use of the smaller (like Mr. Heater Buddy) heaters? I was planning on using it in the central room of the house and having blankets up over entrances to the other rooms to conserve the heat, but I don't want to put my family in any danger.

I forgot to mention that important part. It's not a good idea to have any propane container in your house because it can leak and turn the house into a bomb. 1 lb bottles are just as likely to leak as the big ones, just not as much to leak. Also, bear in mind that the catalyst heaters have real trouble passing the oil typically present in the big tanks when they get filled and the oil gets transferred from the station pumps into the tanks.

The bottom line is you don't want a 20 lb tank leaking propane into your house, especially with ignition sources present. It'll look like something from Burt Gummer on the Tremors movies.

About 2 years ago, I attended a presentation by a guy named Tim Woolf. He was a preparedness specialist for the Mormon Church (He had a website but it is no longer working).

He addresses this issue. The Mormon church tasked him with investigating home heaters. He decided on a kerosene heater. He described it as having a flat top on it that could double as a cooking surface (he just described it and I never saw it). Anyway, as part of his assignment, he allowed the natural gas to be shut off to his house for an entire winter (he lived in the Provo area of central Utah - not Minnesota, but still significantly cold). He said that it heated his house to the point that other than having to shut it down daily for refueling, they could not tell that their furnace was not running. (I'm guessing that he had 2 or 3 of them running, one in sleeping areas, one in living areas, etc., but he implied that they only used one). For the entire winter he went through less than a 50 gallon drum of kerosene.

His points were:

-Propane is not safe for indoor use because of carbon monoxide.
-It takes a lot of Propane to use as a heat source.
-The amount of propane that would have to be stored for long term heat is probably illegal to store.

Anyway, I have several propane heaters. I use one for ice fishing and I just bought the Home Depot version of the Mr Heater, and for their intended purposes they are great. I also have a Coleman 2 Burner and a Camp Chef 3 burner and I love both (I just went to Sportsmans Warehouse and bought the correct adapter hose and can run any of them off of 20 lb bottles). But if you are looking at a backup to heat your house, especially potentially for a week or 2 at a time, propane is probably not the best choice. I actually checked Home Depot on their recent clearance of space heaters to see if they had a kerosene heater and they were out of the ones that seemed appropriate for the purpose you describe.

Hi MichaelJ,

We run a similar system as benjammin in our wall tent while moose hunting.

At the rear of the 14' x 16' canvas wall tent (we sleep on cots along the sides) is where the "kitchen" area is. Here we have a 40lb propane tank with a Coleman extension pole mounted to it, a Coleman lantern sits on top of the pole to provide light for cooking. Off the lower-side port runs a short hose to a 3 burner Coleman stove on a stand and off the upper-side port a long hose snakes across the ceiling of the tent to the mid-point where a second Coleman lantern is suspended. All lanterns are the Piezo ignition type or have a twist-sparker installed (very handy). There is usually a third lantern attached to a 5lb propane tank that sits on the centre table or is used outside to provide area lighting.

We tried using a propane burner type heater (Martin brand I think) but found that a sheet metal woodstove works better as it provides a lot of heat (often too much) and the fuel is free on-site so you do not have to haul it in.

I have often used this equipment indoors in my garage during power outages but as others have already mentioned be very careful about poisonous gas build-up.

Mike

I would think that kerosene would emit as much if not more CO (carbon monoxide) than propane. They're both hydrocarbons.

What/How do indoor-safe heaters do to make them safe? Do they convert the carbon to C02 (carbon dioxide) instead of C0 (carbon monoxide)?

The 'safe' heaters have lots of features. Catalysts to burn off some of the harmful gasses, oxygen sensors that will shut the heater off if there isn't enough O2, bump switches that will shut it off if it gets bumped, tipped, etc. I've even heard of some heaters having an electronic proximity sensor so it will shut off if anything comes within 2 feet of it (like a dog or a child).

So in any case, kerosene or propane back-up heat, I should expect to add the expense of a battery powered CO detector, correct?

I'm kind of leaning toward Kerosene now since I'll have to use 1# tanks if I have a propane heater It also seems like it would be easier and safer to stockpile/replenish kerosene than propane for any extended outages. But on the other hand, the propane heaters have the built in safety features. I'm torn.

If you decide to use a Mr Heater/Big Buddy Heater off of anything other than a one lb disposable bottle, be sure to install one of their in-line fuel filters. If you don't, you will ruin the heater. I speak from experience...

i'm in MN too..i had the same thoughts..but my answer was to
pick up a small generator at a big box store..i have a new
gas furnace and all i need to do is run the fan..i have several
older kero burners that were made for cooking indoors..

In most areas I've been you can install a residential propane tank without much bother. I've seen 500 lb tanks in backyards and I can tell you 500 lbs is enough to last just about any household through the winter.

I haven't found a kerosene heater yet that catalyzes sufficiently. I can always tell when I am near one that is lit because my eyes burn after a while. I like their heat to fuel efficiency, and if it weren't for the off gassing of direct heat versions (those that the combustion process is directly vented to the surrounding environment), I would prefer them to propane as well. Indirect heating (where the exhaust is vented away from the combustion source and the local environment) eliminates this problem but reduces the heating efficiency considerably.

I bought an $8 hose with the right fittings to convert my lil buddy heater to run on the big 20 lb tanks instead of the screw in 1 lb bottles. I did not put an in line filter in mine, so after a year it quit when the oil in the tank hit the generator assembly and plugged everything up.

"...after a year it quit when the oil in the tank hit the generator assembly and plugged everything up..."

You were lucky, our Big Buddy died in about a month!!!

Just an interesting thing that happened here yesterday due to propane:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2655934

I realize that it was the only source of heat for this cabin but I'm assuming that you are not looking to install a 500 lb propane tank either. Just something temporary. Kerosene does not volitolize enough to be an explosive hazard. Just the reminder again to not bring a propane tank inside (ar least not larger than a 1lb tank).

The lecture I attended by Tim Woolf (I mentioned in an earlier post) also mentioned generators. He thought not a good plan. For a few hours, sure, but if your situation extends into days or weeks, fuel becomes an issue. Gasoline is difficult to store in large quantities, is not real stable, is a huge fire hazzard, and if things go real bad, will be the first fuel to be used up (people trying to evacuate will consume all of it almost immediately). He also talked about wood as a heat source, and for the typical person in an urban/suburban area, storing that quantity of wood is not possible.

Disclaimer: I am just relaying what I was told in this lecture. Made a lot of sense to me. I don't know very much about this and appreciate the discussion. Thanks to all.

Thank you so much. It looks like Kerosene is the way to go for heating and potentially cooking.

How about a wood/pellet stove? Efficient and easy.

Kohler and others make generators that you can tap right into your gas connections if you have a gas furnace. They are very expensive and permanent. They can be wired in also, and if you have a power failure, start right up. As long as you have gas, you have power.

Pellet stoves are great, but they (at least ours) require electricity to run the pellet feed and fan...