Harpoon in a PSK - worth it?

Hey all,

I've been toying with this one for a bit... a harpoon in a PSK. I'm in the caribbean, where if in trouble that could be a key componet in my kit (either edc or regular PSK). But I havn't been able to find anything that would look like it would work. Where I am, it would mainly be for fishing when free diving.... or protecting yourself from a barracuda (don't know if it'll do the job, they are nasty buggers!).

Does anyone have any experience with harpoons, using/abusing and creating?

There were some posts in the recent past on this topic and someone has something that looked ok, but could it work?

Kris

Well I saw this fired once:


This one thou maybe too big for psk:


Althou my favorite PSK harpoon must be this:


Hey Kris no disrespect just good times

Matt

Matt,

No worries man!

Kris

'cudas are very curious and unless you're in murky water or swimming in their area at dusk - will leave you alone. but it is very unnerving to see them hanging out near you, following you with those gaping jaws with gnarly sharp teeth.

before i knew better i actually allowed a pair of them to chase me out of the water - they followed me from 15' deep water to a point where i was on my butt, backing slowly up onto the beach! what a sight that must have been! hawaiian sling in hand and fins on the feet.

a local almost broke ribs laughing so hard when i told him the story and asked about the 'cudas. yah, mon!

just remember we are in their territory and they are extremely adapted to it. we are not.

sharks are a different story. go for the eyes.

Kris,

You mean a Hoffman-harpoon?

I don't think it's very practical for a PSK or EDC. But for a ship ditch-kit, maybe...

Do a google on 'hoffman harpoon' if you want to know about it.

HTH

Would this fill the bill?
http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.p...5932c1953bee765

I use to dive quite often here, and pretty much every dive you would see at least one. You would get this feeling that your being stalked, then you look behind yourself and there's one about 10 foot back. Once they saw that you saw them, they would scatter or get to 20-30 feet on the left or right of you to take a better look. Then they disappear then you'd get that feeling again.

They don't bother you unless your wearing something flashy. A few years back a tourist was wearing one of those belly chains on a local beach (barracua's swim there often - locals fish for them there). She went out beyond the cove and got attacked right at the belly area. She survived, but probably still can't eat solid food and won't be coming back.

Hummm... that looks like it could fit the bill... Did anyone use it? Try to get some fish or dinner with it? It looks too much like a mini knife blade and probably won't be too effective??? That just seems like it from looking at it... comments anyone?


Jim,
If it works, then I think it would be a very good item for an edc psk - Probably not in an urban setting (i.e. going to work in the city), but when you live seconds from the ocean, and your office is across the road from a dive shop.... it could be helpful. But I see it more of an edc kit i would have on me when i'm stuck on a boat offshore.

In one of Ray Mears survival programme he shows how one chap lasted for months at sea in an inflatable raft, mainly because he had a spear gun to fish with.
The Sock

Hey Kris,

I have no experience with harpoons but have had lots of exposure to fish spears used on walleye spawning beds in Northern Ontario.

You usually see factory-made, steel, multi-pronged, barbed spearheads with broomhandle/hockey stick shafts or handles cut from trees on-site. Like these http://www.sbtoutdoors.com/fish_spears.htm I have also seen some very crude homemade versions (e.g. pitchforks, nails-poles) but they all kind of follow this idea.

Occasionally you see improvised wooden spears created on-site similar to these http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fishing/spears/spears01.html

Once I saw a snare-pole used for fishing, being a thin wire snare (not unlike what you would use for a rabbit) on the end of a long pole.

A snagger also works well when fish are concentrated during spawning, it could be a large hook on the end of a pole or even on the end of a piece of stiff wire with a wooden T-handle.

When spawning in shallows fish are very vulnerable and often can be harvested in a survival situation with a hoop net, rock, club or even your bare hands.

I think it is well known in the preparedness community that methods which are usually prohibited are the most effective ones in a survival situation.

I have no exposure to barracudas but I did have a young child get very freaked out last summer over a large snapping turtle. The child went into murky water at the beach to wash off "body glitter" and the big turtle surfaced right in front of her. I figure the turtle thought the sparkling flashes and movement were a large school of baitfish.

So even away from the ocean, during certain times of the year on spawning sites, a spearhead/harpoon could be a useful food gathering tool in a survival situation (check your local regulations concerning possession/use of these items in your area).

Mike

Mike,

Laws here are interesting, just like any other carib country. For one, its illegal to bring in/purchase/have a spear gun UNLESS you had it before a certian year (think it was in the 80's but in all honesty have no idea).

If you have a spear gun, you can't dive with it, but you can free dive with it...

Little stuff like that... for instance its perfectly legal to use a mop to get lobster during season (dive down, find a lobster, put the mop in its face, and they attach themselfs to it - no claws on most of the lobsters you can get here so don't know what do to get 'tangled' up in the mop). But at the same time you can't grab the lobster with your hand or its illegal till your out of the water.

But in a survive situation, all bets are off ;-)

Kris

Hi Kris,

I agree with you about laws being odd and that you have to check them everywhere you go. Your speargun law is similar to our grandfathered Canadian "Prohibited Handgun " law where if you owned the firearm prior to a certain date then you were allowed to keep it for target shoothing or collecting, but cannot transfer it to an individual unless they are another grandfathered person.

I agree with you; in a survival situation you do what you need to do, to get you and your family through it.

Never heard of fishing with a mop before, interesting.

Mike

I don't think you 'defend against' barracudas.

The usual plan is to avoid them and/or to avoid being attacked. At least to avoid providing the signals that cause barracudas to reflexively attack. Mainly avoiding any gear that might flash like or otherwise resemble the small fish barracudas eat.

I don't think an active defense is in the cards. Barracudas are perfectly capable of sneaking up on a person and they are frighteningly fast when they attack. I have had them come within arms length before I caught a glimpse out of the corner of my eye. A four foot long barracuda is Very impressive up close with those teeth hanging out. After I got over awe and admiration I made some noise and it was out of sight, perhaps 40' away, in a flash. I wouldn't have a chance of stopping a fish that can move so fast.

Talking to divers in south Florida, by my estimation, most are more afraid of a barracuda attack than a shark attack.

That harpoon tip, if it is the one I'm thinking of, because it is shiney and vaguely baitfish shaped and sized might trigger an attack. I don't think it is a huge risk and presumably it would be at the end of a pole of some sort but baracuddas are prone to attack anything that even vaguely resembles small fish. I would Not hang it off my body.

I can see a roll for a harpoon of sorts to snag fish in the shallows. Assuming my area had fish suitable for eating a harpoon could be a useful addition.

From the 2006 Shot show report on ETS...
(Note: there is a larger version of the Hoffman Harpoon now available.)
TOPS
TOPS introduced their usual slew of new knives, a number of which were interesting or practical utility or survival blades.

Manufacturer: TOPS Model: Hoffman Harpoon
Blade Steel: 1095 Hardness Rc: 58
Blade Shape: Wharncliff Edge: Plain
Blade Length: 2.5"/63mm Blade Thickness: 0.187"/4.7mm
Overall Length: 8"/203mm Tang: Full
Handle Material: Steel Weight: 2.4oz/68g1
Available? 2nd Qtr 2006 MSRP: $80 range
1 With paracord handle wrap
Terril Hoffman, best known as a knife and firearms photographer, as well as for his gun and knife articles, designed the Hoffman Harpoon on a whim, but it ended up being turned into reality because so many thought it was a great idea. The blade ship is essentially a Wharncliff with a 2.5-inch straight edge of 1095 high carbon steel. �A full 3/16-inch thick at the spine ensures it is robust enough to stand up to even significant abuse. �The entire knife is black powder coated. The integral handle extends up at about a 20 degree angle from the blade and is plenty long enough for even the largest hand.� The tang is wrapped with black parachute cord, but this is easily removed if desired. �A deep integral half guard gives a safe and secure grip.� Deep scallops on the spine of the blade provide good thumb purchase. �Together, these allow you to naturally grasp the blade for finer work or use your index finger to guide the edge carefully while gutting and filleting fish, for example. ��Sheath design is still in development, Terrill says, "it will be made to hold an additional item or two of gear such as a sharpener."

It's not named the Harpoon for nothing, and with the para-cord wrapping removed the long narrow handle and lanyard hole should allow you to very securely attach it to a branch to create an improvised harpoon for fishing or gigging frogs. The curved shape of the guard ensures that anything you pierce with the harpoon will likely not wriggle off.� Terrill noted that it's meant to complement a larger fixed blade and that a lanyard should be attached to the lanyard hole and this should run back along the sapling used as a haft to the users hand during "harpooning" to prevent blade loss.� Given the design point for the knife, it looks like he hit that target in the bulls eye.� �MSRP is anticipated to be in the $80 range.

I know a number of people who use a Hoffman Harpoon in their PSK, BOB bags and as a necker. Practicality is not a problem for those that have a harpoon in their kits. With proper usage, I find it a nice addition to my gear.
TOPS has a larger version out now, and a mini Harpoon is coming out 3/24/08.

It's made from 1095 carbon steel? Seems less than ideal for fishing...especially in salt water.

I agree... I mentioned that as comment but personally know its not a reality. Heard too many horror stories (one is more then enough).

And you are right that most people are afraid of them more then sharks... especially in the carib. Reef and Nerf sharks are quite common here, and barracudas are by far the most feared when doing anying in the water when your away from shore.

I even have a pic of a friend who got a santa hat on a nerf shark when the guy was relaxing. She done them up for her xmas cards. Very relaxed guys.

Nothing like coming up from a 100' dive from the wall and looking up you see two hammerheads... that one freaked me out for a few weeks. Just circling you till you made it back on your boat..... erie. Need to have a psk for stuff like that, like diapers. ;-)

Adrift: Seventy-six Days Lost at Sea
by Steven Callahan

Highly reccomended survival read. The spear gun he happened to have with him was instrumental to his survival.

I'm Canadian, and have a 410 from my grandfather thats sitting back at my grandmothers, and my dad has a 22 that he got from as well. Can't tell you how old they are as I have no idea, but the 410 is one nice thing. Got them thru that law (we no longer hunt with them).

Grandfather taught my dad how to shoot partridge with a 22 back when he was a kid. Told him if you can't shoot a bird with that, he won't get a 410. Can't do that now days, but still amazing what you can do with a little 22 if you had to.

Yeah, never heard of that till i moved down here. Things people do to 'get' around the laws. And that is perfect legal as long as they don't touch the lobster till its out of the water.

Also didn't know you can cut through copper pipe with nylon string till I saw a constructin crew down here do it down here during ivan (had to fix some pipes before the hurricane hit and i was just watching them set up a run of pipe in no time).

Kris

Hmm, I'd think a gig rig would be a better survival accouterment. In fact, you could use nails you normally take along for survival (10p come to mind) cut the heads off and barb the tips using the file on your leatherman tool, and catch any number of morsels, both above and below. I like multi taskers, and cheap as well.

Now, if you are considering a harpoon as more of a defensive tool, well, I would think a knife would be a sufficient, albeit shorter range, substitute.

I've made gig rigs using stainless steel antenna rod (one of the fringe benefits of working in the radio business), that were scary sharp and held against a solid 40 lb resistance before tearing out. I would think that to be sufficient for most uses.

Les Stroud harpooned a fish in a Survivorman episode with just his knife tied to the end of a stick and it seemed to work fairly well with no specialized equipment required.

I carry a spearhead/harpoon which has worked very well while fooling around at the beach spearing crabs and flatfish. I wouldn't use my knife for this unless I had a spare (I usually have a few spares) Can you imagine the crappy feeling of thrusting at a fish only to miss and break or lose your knife? I don’t know if I would want to risk such an important piece of gear as my knife in that way. Just MHO though.

Somehow I'd rather use and lose a knife than never use it at all.

I've played around with my LMF II in this way. It's almost too beefy to lash to a pole properly but at the same time it's so beefy I don't think I'm capable of accidentally ruining it.

I know it works but I always have a hard time believing that a fish is going to stay on the knife without a harpoon like shape or barbs.

I carry a Gerber LMF II as my primary survival knife as well, and I can't imagine how stout the pole would have to be in order to break the knife before the pole itself. I realize the same can not be said for a lot of the other knives out there.

The LMF II has three lashing points and a relieved oval in the handle specifically for lashing it to a pole, and while I haven't had the need to do so, I would not think twice about using this particular knife as a spear/harpoon in a true survival situation.



Jim

Hi BigDaddyTX,

No one that I know around here mail-orders in fish spears as the are commenly available at most local fishing/bait shops (both the 3 tine and 5 tine models).

Later,

Mike

Ahh, I got what you were meaning now.

A harpoon tip or spearhead should not be very hard to make; take a piece of steel, cut, file or grind it to shape, drill a few mounting holes in it and sharpen an edge on it. If you do not have a piece of steel then just fatten a large nail with a hammer and go from there.

Because fish in my location spawn in shallow rocky areas this harpoon/spearhead is going to be damaged quite quickly. I could not see myself spending a lot of money on a harpoon/spearhead because I know it is a tool I would abuse and proably break or loose then have to replace.

I have no experience with saltwater situations but I would think that a harpoon head would last a lot longer there because there would be less contact with the rocky bottom; therefore it may be worth getting one of better quality (could also double as a back-up knife).

I just thought of something that was just mentioned in the Fishing kit thread that's currently running very parallel to this one. In a survival situation, you don't want to expend energy if you don't have to.

Hunting/fishing with a spear/harpoon seems like an aweful lot of energy expended for a potential of zero gain. I guess if you lived in the right area it might be a workable backup but the more I think about it, the less I can imagine ever catching a fish in the waters around here with any kind of harpoon.

Hi Hacksaw,

Spearing fish in a survival situation is a very time/site specific activity. For about a one month period in the spring where I live, if you go to the right places you could spear pails full of fish, with very little effort.

As was posted eartlier, your best bet for survival fishing is proabally baited set-lines, a trot line, a fish trap or a gill/roll net because they work without you having to tend them or expending your limited energy.

If a method is illegal for sportfishing that is usually because it is too effective and therefore an excellent method to use in a true survival situation.

Mike

This has been a recent discussion on one of the subforums on Bladeforums.com. A good, cheap, and easy to make harpoon was made from a spade bit (that's a flattened, paddle type bit for drilling wood). They took a 1" bit, drew out a triangle and ground out a decent looking harpoon. The shank was easy to mount up in a thin piece of bamboo or cane.

Here's a link to a full how-to:

http://funditor.110mb.com/wiki/index.php/Steel_Harpoon_Point

Not a harpoon, but something the old guys would do when I was growing up was called "snagging". They would tie a half dozen hooks, usually treble hooks, to a line about 6 inches apart. Then they would just cast the line. They would jerk and reel, jerk and reel. Any fish the line dragged across would snag on the hooks. It would actually work pretty effectively, though I'm sure it's illegal.

I just noticed that the Cold Steel Bird & Trout knife has a VERY similar profile to the Hoffman-Harpoon...and it's 1/3 the price (as little as $12 on eBay).

Could make a good inexpensive multitasker to replace the Gerber LST on my lanyard.

That's what I like about gig setups over harpoons. You can make a gig out of a coat hanger if need be. Cheap, easy to make, even if all you have is a rock to sharpen the tip with, easy to maintain, and effective. Back when I was a kid we used to make them out of grandpa's welding rod scrap and go gig flounder at low tide. Had we been older and more adept at our technique, we'd have caught a lot more of them, but as it was we did about as well as fishing for them.

Lashing four of those sharpened rods to a broom handle with bailing wire was what we were using back then. Never lost a rod either, though we did have to resharpen them occasionally.

If it were my only knife, there is no way I would lash it to a stick and risk breaking/loosing it. I think that I would just sharpen a long stick, maybe harden it in the fire, and use that instead...

Agree'd. If it were my only knife there's no way...though I don't even go to work with only one knife!

The more I think about the whole spear/harpoon thing the more I think I'd never bother. I'd be more likely to turn that shaft of wood into a fishing pole than a harpoon.

Still...I'm curious to try under controlled conditions to see if it's even possible in these parts.

Well, this topic did get me to thinking about carrying at least a harpoon head in my psk and this thread confirmed it. But its more of a regional thing, for instance I probably wouldn't have one when I go backpacking in the east coast of Canada... but around the carib, it could be an effective way of catching food.

Thank you to all for your comments and idea.

I did pull an old ti dive knife that i had in my dive kit, and noticed that I can take the handle off quite easily. This could be a dual purpose item for around here. It would never be my primary knife by no means, but it would most definitly be a multi purpose tool, and acting as a harpoon/spear head could be one of those purposes.

I do like the idea of the hoffman, but its a bit of cash for what you get (IMHO). I will play around with the idea of using nails, and maybe filing them to some degree to get more of a barbed head. That would most definitly be a better idea as nails (or some form of it) could be used for more things then just a harpoon head.


Thanks all,
Kris

I work in an office in NYC, within a couple blocks of today's parade route (GO BIG BLUE!!!), and I normally come to work with more than one knife. Today, I think I brought three; a Gerber multi-tool, a SAK and a cheaper knife with one serated blade.

I am with the crowd that would avoid using a knife as a spear, if I had other choices. A decent spear can be made from only a stick. Sure, it should be a good, strong stick, but so should anything to which you will tie a metal point. I would not want to lose a Hoffman harpoon when the end of the stick to which it was tied broke. Additonally, spear points can be made from other items, like a piece of bone or metal by gridning them down, or maybe with some practice, one could try flint knapping. I'd probably only be able to create something to use as a grub axe, but the knife would help me cut something to tie that to a stick. I'd need to be pretty hard up before I risked a knife as a spear.

I do like the idea of a Hofmann harpoon or the Cold Steel Bird and Trout knife as a part of a small kit. the last cutting tool I leave at home is in an EDC kit, and it's an exacto blade which I have attached two pieces of plastic tableware (a spork and a knife). Either the Hoffman blade or the Cold Steel knife would be a good addition to this kit. But, if either were my only blade, I would be less likely to risk losing it.

Here this is a lot cheaper and probable just as good.

http://www.coldsteel.com/20btj.html

cheers

Here's a review and comparison of the Cold Steel Bird & Trouot Knife and Hoffman Harpoon.

http://hikinghq.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-2104.html

If you need a small harpoon option for land-borne survival (small fish) check out m40's ten-cent survival knife, http://www.m4040.com/Survival/10_Cent_Survival_Knife/10_Cent_Survival_Knife.htm My son make be one and now it is with me in the ubiquitous Altoids tin along with a few other things. Just a thought.

Spending that kind of coin for a hoffman its a bit out of my range now, but thats the idea I was looking at. Anyone knows anyone that can create something like that for a much lower price? Won't be able to get the good steel, but its a harpoon head afterall. It will be banged around.

For now, i'm taking benjammin's advice and use nails or something similiar. I already had a few nails in my psk, but i'll probably double or triple up on that (prob 6 or so). Very useful items.

I don't think the hacksaw blades will work for me. If you miss and the thing hits a rock or something, it'll just shatter.

Kris

I use a cut off fiberglass arrow, and a few arrowheads, including fishing heads.

To answer the original question, a harpoon in a PSK...

Silly. The thought of adding it is just plain silly. The chance for the average internet joe to use one successfully is nil. Those that have the skills to successfully use one could make and improvise IMO.

And yet there will be droves of folks buying them at $80 a pop to go with their $300 pocket knives while complaining how expensive ACR PLB are.

That's caught my eye as well Kris.

I'm opting to not add it to my PSK because I'm on a "parring down" kick at the moment. (see how Spartan I can get and still call myself a gear-junkie).

Playing mental games of what I can get rid of and improvise.

This is an on-going dance of ours: trying different stuff and trying to do without different stuff.

That's the cool thing about this place (Thanks Doug).

We can learn from the experiments of others. If you decide to try it out, let us know what worked/ didn't work.

Addendum:
As I'm reading this for grammatical correctness/making sure I didn't say something stoooopid, I noticed a pattern that is rather unsettling to me.

One of the hallmarks of addiction is a pattern of unsuccessfully attempting to cut back or stop what ever it is that the person is addicted to.

I've joked about being a gear-junkie, but this is different twist to it... Gotta find my self a 12 step group.... oh, wait Academy has a sale...maybe I'll stop tomorrow.

Purely for gathering fish, frogs, etc. I would choose an inexpensive gig as could be found at Bass Pro's or another location. For even a smaller tool for a PSK, you might want to look at fishing point as used on an arrow at your local archery shop. My Harpoon was designed as a multi-use tool which means you give up a bit here and a bit there to fit more needs such as a small knife. I would have liked to see it priced lower but that is not my department. TOPS is the one that comes up with pricing and since I just thought up the idea and TOPS makes it, that takes it out of my hands.
For those who have gotten one, thank you and I hope you enjoy it. Feel free to let me know what you think, good or bad.

Terrill, Great to see you on the Forum! Welcome!

It is for that reason I would rather hod a handful of 10p nails in my kit. Multi-taskers are great things.

To expand on this. I did a simple google search for 'barb nails' and got a lot of hits, but with no pics (or if there were pics it was of regular nails - i think they were since they didn't look barbed).

Are barbed nails really barbed? If so, anyone have any pics or something of what they look like.

Went to my local hardware store here on island (i miss home depot from the mainland), and nothing even close to a barbed nail (in name or in product).

I'm thinking of mixing this up with 10p nails as per Benjammin comments.

Barbed nails aren't barbed like a fish hook is...they just have tiny teeth in them near the head to help prevent them from coming out of whatever they're hammered into. At least that's how any barbed nail I've seen has been (I'm no carpenter). From what I understand spiral twist nails are much more effective as far as not coming out is concerned.

A nail can be used in different ways without being barbed however. The nail could be the barb. If hammered through a wooden spear (or lashed to one backwards), it could serve as a barb when harpooning fish. Short nails can also be tied inverted for fishing so that when a fish swallows them they turn sideways and get lodged. Before fish hooks existed this is how men fished using natural resources like bones, or thorns.

Benjammin: I like your way of thinking. I hate to carry 'uni-taskers' if I don't have to...especially when most multitaskers are WAY more bang for the buck (like 10p nails)

I haven't seen barbed nails as such, but I've seen flooring nails that have conical ridges running up the length of them, kinda like a stack of funnels that don't quite nest all the way. My experience with them is that once you've hammered them in, you will not get them out again without destroying the wood around them. However, that is not what I would recommend. I prefer to notch a burr into the side of the nail with a file sufficiently to make it reasonably lodge upon attempting extraction. If you pull with enough force it will tear out, but not so likely on a small animal or fish. The barb in this case is not nearly as radical as a gigging barb. Having 3 or 4 on lashed around the end of a stick or pole about 3/4 to 1 inch diameter ought to fairly well secure whatever you can stick with it.

That all makes sense. I couldn't find the barbed nails that i was thinking of, barbed like fish hooks (thanks hacksaw). I did find all those pics of barbed nails that bigdaddytx's search came back with. I just didn't think that they were 'true' barbed nails...

Thanks all,
Kris