Animal (pet) survival Questions.

Hello to all,

After some searching in the previous forum posts I found very little in the way of the information I was seeking.
At present I have a dog and tend to take her hikihg with the wife when we can get out of the house.
Questions:

1) What are good pet first-aid supplies?
I carry a Sawyer extractor thinking if it works on people it works on the dog. Hypothetical senario in my head is snake bites after the dog spooks one. I don't carry one of the dog head cones to keep her from geting to open wounds and personlly do not think any bandages/topical ointements are any better than the natural antibiotic in a dogs saliva, at least for minor wounds.

2) I have heard various older gentelmen suggest cayying pedialite for desert travel as spart of a pet safety kit, but have no firsthand experience with this. Obviously this is to help prevent/correct dehydration.

3) Another kit item is benadrill pills, for those painfuly amusing times the dog decides to snap a bee out of the air. The sugessted dose is for childrens pills, but as of yet I have not had to deal with a bee sting sice I was given the suggestion. Any recomendations on adminestering, as I don't usually have bread or penutbutter to hide the drug in so she (Dogs name is SKY) will swallow it.

4) Tweezers are one other item I carry to remove thorns form the pads of Sky's feet. The one time I needed them the thorns all started breaking off at skin level and I could not have removed them without this item.

5) My other concern is a puncture or gunshot wound. I have been thinking about this alot and although she is always on a leash the possibility of her falling and getting a puncture wound from a branch or, shot by a hunter with poor game identification skills are, at least in my mind, realistic concerns. So, I am debating weather or not to carry something like quick-clot.

NOTE: #1 & #5 would befollowed by an imediate trip to an animal hospital.


As for me I have taken a few first-aid classes for humans and realize how little I know about it in reguards to humans, let alone dogs. Anyone know of a course for wilderness animal first-aid?

I am looking forward to any comments so please don't hold back on any supplies, suggestions or first hand experience.

-Joe-

Having had many dogs over the last many years, and had all too many dog-related injuries** and illnesses, it seems to me that for the most part any first aid kit that works for a human is good enough for a dog. All the stuff you talked about (tweezers, benadryl, etc...) should be in a human first aid kit too.

About the only difference I can think of is that it might be good to have a way to cut back/down some of the fur - in order to properly clean an area and keep fur from matting into a wound.

If possible it would be great to carry some kind of general antibiotics in case of wounds ... but again, that seems like a good idea for humans if away from civilization for any length of time.

Personally I wouldn't mess with the Pedialite - too heavy and water should do just fine. I also have read that the Sawyer Extractor doesn't really do all that much, plus it would be tough to apply to an area surrounded in fur.

Ken K.

**The craziest was when two of my dogs got into a fight with a muskrat. They eventually killed it, but they both got all bit up in the faces and tongues. Man did that bleed all over the place. We messed up the emergency vets office around midnight that night.

From my vet: you can safely give 1 to 2 mg Benedryl per pound of body weight. I have a 50# dog, so that would be two to four tablets, as each tablet is 25mg. If you could find a smaller container of LIQUID Benedryl, it is likely to be absorbed faster than the pill will.

I keep a 10 ml/cc syringe taped to a bottle of the liquid. I've written on the bottle with a felt-tip marker: "For bee sting, give Shilo 20 cc by mouth". (Shilo likes to snap at bees.)

1 tsp = 5 ml/cc = 12.5mg Benedryl, one dose for a 5-10# dog

2 tsp = 10 ml/cc = 25mg Benedryl, one dose for a 12-25# dog

1 Tbsp = 15 ml/cc = 37.5mg Bendryl, one dose for a 18-35# dog

4 tsp = 20 ml/cc = 50mg Benedryl, one dose for a 25-50# dog

My vet said it's hard to overdose dogs with Benedryl, so measurement isn't all that critical. Benedryl isn't all that effective on cats, though.

Sue

I'm always tweaking my dog's kit, too, so I know how you feel. KenK is right that many supplies you probably already carry on your person will work when administered to your dog.

Our mutt, who is only 10 lbs.,travels with us alot, so he rides in a Sherpa pet carrier. His kit resides in a very small bag that attaches to the handles of the Sherpa bag and so far contains:
-Tiny tube of Superglue (for closing cracks and splits in the dog's paw pads)
-Small mouth syringe (for giving him meds) and his meds
-Tweezers
-Conforming gauze
-Dog booties
-A quart-sized Aloksak with 3 days worth of food (this can be stretched out for longer, too)
-Leash with waste bag/dispenser attached
-Harness
-Set of plastic fold-up dog bowls
-Hamster water bottle (for giving him water while he's still in the bag)
When adventuring I can easily detach his kit and throw in my pack, as it takes up very little room.

I've got small scissors on my Leatherman to clip his fur if necessary (and which have worked really well on him in the past), and any indigestion or painkiller meds he may need reside in my FAK. Just make sure you read up on what quantities are safe to use on your dog.

You may want to talk to your vet about animal first aid classes. He or she may be able to point you in the right direction, or be willing to host some for clients themselves.

Thanks to all of y'all for getting my attention onto a subject that I haven't sufficiently thought through yet.

I now have a new POV to look at this question from and it is now added to my "get done" list for winter/spring of this year.

Thanks again!!!!

I carry some 2x2" and 4x4" gauze pads and a couple of rolls of that sticky/stretch bandaging material for cut feet. If you have to apply a pressure bandage on a foot, firmly wrap the WHOLE FOOT. Don't leave any toes sticking out.

If you live in cactus areas, I would carry a hemostat to pull them out. They provide a better grip then bare fingers, and will hold onto a heavier cactus spine than tweezers.

Pliers and hemostats can be used to remove fishhooks, but you often need a wire cutter, too. Only try to back the hook out if the back of the barb is visible. If the barb has gone through the lips or tongue, try to advance it enough so you can cut the barb off and then back the rest of the hook out. A swallowed hook requires vet care.

Dogs with foot injuries should receive a tetanus shot.

I also carry a couple of rolls of plain gauze to use as an emergency muzzle: make one loop with a single overhand knot, place over muzzle with knot on top, pull snugly; bring ends of gauze down and tie another overhand knot below chin; bring both ends together behind dog's head (below ears) and tie in a bow at the back. If dog tries to remove muzzle with paws, hold, tie or duct tape paws. Dog will 'blow' through sides of lips, so don't close off the entire mouth area.

See drawing, and PAY ATTENTION to warnings
http://www.flyball.com/region5/Region%205%20Emergency%20Document%20for%20web_files/image006.gif

Dewclaws frequently get torn in brush. Apply pressure, then wrap with a bandage to protect. Don't make it so tight it becomes a tourniquet. Check paw every 10 minutes for swelling or cold foot temperature = bandage is too tight.

Dogs don't sweat, they only can expire heat by panting and through the pads of their feet. Allow enough water, bath feet, wet down if too hot. If you've got a ball- or stick-crazy dog, don't let people keep throwing the ball/stick in hot weather.

Porcupine quills - A pair of pliers are handy to have. Grab the spine as close to the skin as possible and pull straight out. Quills are barbed on the tips, and if left in the body will migrate out of easy reach. Some have been known to puncture internal organs. Give Benedryl if needed.

Have your vet show you how to do CPR.

Scorpions - get to a vet, with the scorpion, if possible. Some aren't very toxic, some are.

Bufo toad poisoning - flush the mouth with water and get the dog to a vet. Effects usually show up within 15 minutes and can be fatal.

Skunks - There are a couple of products made just for skunk encounters, Skunk-Off or Skunk Kleen, but you can make your own (but you can't mix it ahead of time, only for immediate use):
Mix 1 quart 3% hydrogen peroxide (not previously opened) + 1/4 cup baking soda + 1 tsp liquid soap. Wet the dog down with the mixture and work it through the hair in the affected areas. Leave it on a few minutes, then rinse. You will probably have to repeat it several times. Don't get it in the dog's eyes (or yours). Don't try to save the excess, it's only good fresh. If you have to use it around the face, try to put something in the eyes first, even cooking oil.

A dog's normal temperature usually ranges from 100F to 102.5F (size doesn't matter), and the normal heart rate varies with size, the smaller the dog the higher the heart rate (under 30# = 100-160 bpm, over 30# = 60-100 bpm). It could be a good idea for you to check your dog's heart rate when it is in normal condition.

If you have a pet emergency, call the vet to make sure help is there before you go.

Sue

Sue's baking soda mixture sounds worth a try. It's been years since I had a dog encounter a skunk. But, the thing that worked best when he did was a feminine hygiene product, masengill douche, YMMV. The smell is probably not soming out with one washing of the dog, so trying both would probably be what I did.

I remember the last time well, the dog standing so proud over the skunk he literally had just shaken to death. He did not get sprayed, but he still stunk. Washing helped, but for a few months later, his face smelled when it got wet.

I would add some EMT gel and a muzzle.

EMT gel works great for stopping bleeding from cuts and torn nails. You have to let it dry for a few minutes before letting the dog run around. If you are involved in pulling cactus spines, porcupine quills or anything else from your dog, it's a good idea to muzzle him/her.

I was upstae visiting a friend when his dog came home with a freshly dead skunk on a rainy fall day.

After helping was down his dog (shudder) the smell of skunk, say 100 or more yards away doesn't even phase me - It's like - Oh, skunk - while everyone around me are like "gahhh, how can you stand it". I think I'm partly de-scent-itized (sic) to it

Great topic. Good to know benadryl is safe to use. Here's a couple of other things I have in the dog kit I haven't seen listed.

Pepcid AC
Water soluble fiber
Styptic powder (Kwik Stop or other)

Perhaps you should verify with your vet, but IMHO you'd treat snakebite in a dog much the same as you would in a human: that said, there's an exhaustive and exhausting thread on snakebite ongoing here. I think the Sawyer has no role in treating either species for snakebite.

Ask your vet for 1 or 2 2" rolls of "Vetwrap". This is a somewhat elastic, self-adhesive roll bandage (Kerlix is similar). I've never had a bandage stay on a dog if only taped, so I overwrap with vetwrap much like an ACE bandage, if the wound allows.

My vet also gave me a vial of Dermabond for pad cuts. I've used superglue also.

A final suggestion: I've owned and/or trained some great dogs. Highly trained. They'd hold a "down-stay" and not nip, even when sutured. But even so, I'd always muzzle. You never know. And, people will be more willing to help you with an injured dog if the dog is muzzled....no matter how sweet and gentle you assure them your dog is.

So a question about skunks - is the stuff mentioned better than tomato juice (the old stand-by)?

Also, if a dog gets sprayed, wouldn't shaving your dog and disposing the fur get rid of most of the smell? Just a thought...

I've used tomato juice, and it doesn't work at all. It's just that after close contact with a skunked dog, the sensors in your nose kind of shut down.

The Massingill douche was GREAT! But they don't seem to make it anymore. I knew of a hairy German guy who got sprayed right in the bare chest, and his wife made several pitchers of the stuff and made him pour it over him. They went to a pary that same night, and no one said anything about skunks.

The homemade deskunker recipe is from my vet. The combination of ingredients are supposed to have a firm basis in science.

You might be able to cut the hair off a shaggy type of dog, but if you've got a Lab or Pitbull, why bother?

OOOPS! Don't use the recipe above around the eyes. For the face, mix one tablespoon of Trichotine Douche Powder to 1 quart of warm water, and use that. One 5oz jar costs about $14. If that's all you have and you're desperate, dilute it all and saturate the dog with it.

Sue

Well,


Thank you all! The following is list of things I will look into.

(note: to avoid repeats of suggestions I am only listing them under the name of the first person to post a suggestion.)


KenK
- What, "...works for a human is good enough for a dog."
- Cut back fur to keep it from matting into/around a wound.
- General antibiotics----? (any sugestions on how to get them, as none of the doctors I have asked in the past would perscribe them when I was not sick, even when I told them I was going over seas on a month long trip.)
- Sawyerextractor doesn't do all that much. (So, I should dump the extractor and just carry the safetyrazor that comes with it.)

Susan
- 1 to 2mg of Benedryl per pound of animals bodyweight.
- A 10ml/cc syringetaped to liquid bottle.
- 2by2" & 4by4" gauze pads.
- A couple of rolls of sticky/strech bandaging for cut feet.
- Hemostat to pull cactus thorns.
- Pliers, used with hemostat to remove fish hooks.
(note: if swallowed take animal to Vet)
(been there, done that with mom's dog when I was a kid fishing with dad. 7 hours after sheba, the dog, swallowed the hook and way more money than my dad wanted to spend on an emergency office visit on a Sunday, sheba was good as new,but the fishing trip was ruined.)
- foot injuries to dogs should recive a tetanus shot.
- a cople of plain rolls of gause as an emergency muzzle.
- have a vet show you how to do CPR.
- if possible catch scorpion and bring to vet with dog.

these are to long to repeat so check Susan's second post on page one.
-Bufo toad poisoning
-skunk encounters
-a dogs normal temperature

from Susan's 3rd post
- de-scenting after a skunk encounter
DO NOT USE Around OR Above EYES
Mix 1 tablespoon of Trichtine Douche Powder to 1qt warm water.

Christina
- Tiny tube of superglue for cuts/tears of pads
- Conforming gauze
- Dog Booties
- 3 days worth of food
- Leash w/waste bags
- Harness
- set of plastic foldupdog bowles
- hamster water bottle
- Indegestion and pain killers wright animals weight dosageon container
- CHECK WITH VET ABOUT ANIMAL FIRST-AID COURSE

drahthaar
- EMT gel- to stop bleeding
- a Muzzle

LED
- Pepcid AC
- Water soluble fiber ( LED please forgive my ignorance but, what is the fiber for? I have never heard of adminestering it to a pet.)
- Styptic Powder (Kwik Stop or other)

NAro
- Check snake bite thread
- Ask Vet for 1 or 2, 2" rolls of "Vet wrap" (self adhisive bandage to prevent dog from removing dressing)


Apparently I was unclear about the first-aid supplies in the original post. I carry one first-aid kit, not one for people and a seperate one for the dog. In addition most of my hikes are day hikes, so food does not usually get carried for the dog, just lots of water and a bowl for her to drink from. The pedialite would stay in the car, as the desert travel would be by car. There is always more stuff in the car than the small day pack I carry can hold. Car supplies, in reguards to pet stuff, are food and water

Again, thank you all, you have helped me see many new ideas and made the older ones a little clearer.

-Joe-

More of a at home remedy, unless you like lugging along cans while hiking....
If your dog has really loose/runny bowels feeding it canned pumpkin mix (like for pies) seems to do the trick at getting them back to normal. Probably, as an educated guess, was what LED was talking about when he suggested water soluable fibre.
IMHO the sawyer extracter kit is "good", just not overly effective. If you or your wife or dog are out in the styx I'd rather use the pump for the roughly 30% effective venom removal than letting it all stay inside. Not a replacement for getting anti-venom, but if every little bit helps I'll take all I can. At the very least it may have a slight mental calming effect on a human victim and a lower heart rate/staying calm is a good thing.

-Bill Liptak

I agree with the canned pumpkin remedy. We've used it several times on our Irish Wolfhounds when we started raw feeding them.
Just be sure it is pure pumpkin and NOT pumpkin pie mix.

I guess it only applies if you have an older dog. We rescued an older pup who needed a little 'help' so the vet recommended a little daily fiber in his diet. (mixed with some water and chicken broth) Made his life so much better.

Hey guys,

LED, BillLipitak and KRamas thank you for the infomation. thinking about gerneal pet safety over the last few days has opened my eyes to how unperpared I am. I had never thought of a muzzle for my dog before and after reading your replies to my questions and some other sources I will be picking one up this week.

Looking at book stores I was disapointed in the 2 books on animal first-aid I found. I was hoping to find some type of home reference book on the subject, but as of yet have not.

-Joe-

I THINK that water-soluble fiber (like oatmeal) is gentle and soothing to an intestinal tract, and is a way of adding some easily-digested bulk to the diet. Non-soluble fiber (like brown rice) is rougher on a digestive tract that isn't used to it.

Sue